Have you ever wondered why this game is slow and why it has a small play area?
The answer: It uses the firmware for most functions and the scrolling code is very poor.
Would this game had been better if it was a Speccy port?
Oh geez, I had never played this before, but I fired it up because of your post. Of course it *was* 1086, but still... bleah. The loading screen is nice, though, in mode 1... :D
Indeed, I think we have seen speccy ports that have bigger play fields and at least the same speed as that. As it is it looks like a mini-game of sorts, within another game!
You awoke an old memory for me with this thread!
back in the late 80's, we actually had the proper arcade game of Xevious. It was great, very fast, proper joystick and double buttons for fire & bomb, we found loads of hidden places on the scrolling background where you could bomb and get 'extra' features....
so when I saw that a CPC464 version was released, we (myself and my younger brother) clubbed together and purchased the game (it came with a little badge aswell if I remember rightly?)... after waiting for it to load (tape version), it took about 3 minutes to realise that this was made by someone who may or/may not have seen the real arcade game....from a distance!
.... yes, the CPC464 isn't a dedicated games machine processor running 3xZ80 processors, but I remember we were still a little disappointed.
I suppose nowdays, a MAME cabinet would reproduce the original better than a CPC464 version?
If you want to have Xevious as a screensaver: http://www.botchthecrab.com/screensavers/Xevious.zip (http://www.botchthecrab.com/screensavers/Xevious.zip)!
Hahaha, man, it really looks NOTHING like the original... I had forgotten about the pesudo-AI avoidance trick the f*ckers do...
MAME is perfect:
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4681/p1010928u.th.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/p1010928u.jpg/)
That's interesting. I never wondered about the quality of the game though, it said US Gold on the front! :) I didn't encounter Xevious until late in the CPCs life though, but I'd had a more or less identical experience of disappointment when I purchased 1942. When I saw Xevious it looked to me to be a reworking of the same game code as 1942 (maybe vice versa, they're both 1986).
As far as a speccy port goes, I'd guess if the speccy port had had as much effort and/or time put into it as the version we ended up with appeared to, it probably wouldn't have made much difference.
Quote from: Axelay on 09:30, 04 November 09
That's interesting. I never wondered about the quality of the game though, it said US Gold on the front! :) I didn't encounter Xevious until late in the CPCs life though, but I'd had a more or less identical experience of disappointment when I purchased 1942. When I saw Xevious it looked to me to be a reworking of the same game code as 1942 (maybe vice versa, they're both 1986).
As far as a speccy port goes, I'd guess if the speccy port had had as much effort and/or time put into it as the version we ended up with appeared to, it probably wouldn't have made much difference.
Hmmm.. this is possible.
I think Slapfight would be the same code... not sure about 1942.. but that is possible.
1942 had some of the source code inside the executable to make it big and try to make you think you were getting more
edit: slapfight is different code. hmmm.. why does it have such a small play area?
I'd imagine the smaller window gave a smoother frame rate... that scrolling does look quite smooth in Slap Fight, and I don't think anyone had ever used 'rotovision' on the CPC prior to Paul Shirley.
It's still a good game, but it just goes to show that the guys at 'FTL' did really well with the Light Force and Shockway Rider game... although their game scrolling wasn't the smoothest, at least it nearly filled the bloody screen, and Light Force was ace.
I actually found 1942 to be pretty playable...
What about the source code thing - was it revealed back then?
Ah, the vertical shooters...
Xevious wasn't that bad, I used to like it in fact.
As you know at the times, good vertical shooters weren't that common on CPC...well yes they were maybe after few years...
But no internet = you got the game your friends could give you, and cracked games were not that often found in some towns...
Honestly, I preferred SlapFight...
Also 1942 was good, but old so poorer graphically.
Slapfight was the best port of his generation on cpc.
and its music was really good (Alongside MAgMax...horizontal)
I discovered 1943 and flying shark only recently, and , well, they are very good.
Flying Shark is perhaps one of the best speccy ports available.
But, Mode0 was better for horizontal shooterz, as it seems.
What else ?
Mystical, is it that bad ? I had it on my PC at the time, but CPC port looked quite well done.
Dragon spirit too.
Scramble spirit...ouch!
Back to Xevious, it is quite old even for a CPC production, isn't it ?
As I said, slapFight was a bit better (yet not that fast too) and had interesting weapon system, but Xevious had some interesting stuff, the 2 shoots : one for air and one for ground.
And, well, the small area of play... but as the game was playable and good...you had to do with it.
If I remenber well, even the awesome Dynammic productions in Mode0 with awesome graphics...did had really little tiny small game area...no ?
Game over...and so many more...
Honestly, I am not even sure more than 30% of CPC games used the full display (320x200 or 160x200...)
And "overscan games" were even rarest...
Maybe... 5-6... and a few 3-4 more to include a screen in Overscan (Shinobi text screens are in overscan, lol...)
Arkanoids 1 & 2, Titan, DonkeyKong, Ghouls'N ghost...what else ?
We also have to remember that hose shooters were the only proper scrolling games in the early era...because they didn't had the choice...
Improovements were done later in that field, thanks to the fact shooters were done..
Msot run & gun games or even platforms didn't really used Scrolling :
Gryzor, Game Over, green Berret, Wizball (as it is some sort of shoot'em up...)
Also the lack of proper GUI in developpment tools made the graphic work harder to fullfill...And most game were to be ddone by a single nerdz in his basement...
This Geek Nerdz coder wasn't a real artist most a time, but a coder only...
Ah! Flying shark... so cute, so nice, and quite hard... One of my favs, definitely. Was it an arcade port? I don't remember...
[EDIT] Yes it was (http://www.solvalou.com/subpage/arcade_reviews/24/137/flying_shark_review.html). I know what I'm playing tonight on my arcade cabinet! :)
Xevious looked like it should be good, but it does a great job of sucking out any possible excitement and fun you might have.
Though its one of the first scrolling vertical shmups so can cut it some slack.
Cool name, crap game.
Everytime I play Mission Genocide I can´t believe how smooth and fast the scrolling is.
The sprites are also fast and smooth, the playing area is really big.
Why are games with Rotovision so rare?
Isn´t it the perfect vertical scrolling-routine?
What are the disadvantages or restrictions of this routine?
The graphic of Mission Genocide lacks colours, is this maybe "the price" for the good scrolling?
On the other hand, there are a lot of colourless speccy ports with really jerky scrolling.
So I don´t think it´s a matter of the amount of colours.
Can somebody tell me more about it?
Quote from: Leonie on 13:06, 12 April 10
Everytime I play Mission Genocide I can´t believe how smooth and fast the scrolling is.
The sprites are also fast and smooth, the playing area is really big.
Why are games with Rotovision so rare?
Isn´t it the perfect vertical scrolling-routine?
What are the disadvantages or restrictions of this routine?
The graphic of Mission Genocide lacks colours, is this maybe "the price" for the good scrolling?
On the other hand, there are a lot of colourless speccy ports with really jerky scrolling.
So I don´t think it´s a matter of the amount of colours.
Can somebody tell me more about it?
The scroll uses the demo technique "rupture"/"splitting" to make the smooth scroll. (crtc register 4 to split the screen into blocks, reg 5 to make the smooth vertical scroll).
This is not always easy to code.
This type of scroll will also use all 16K "video" ram because of the way the scroll works. (the graphics "move" through the 16k memory accessed by the crtc at that time)
Also to make the drawing of sprites fast, they use OR to put them onto the screen and AND to remove them.
Using this method is fast, but you you can't use lots of colours.
This type of scrolling can only be used for smooth vertical scrolling. Smooth horizontal scrolling is not possible with this scrolling method.
Other games used software scroll and smaller screen:
1. easier to convert from spectrum
2. you can use the invisible parts of the "video" ram for storing code and data.
So it make it smooth, they used 2 methods with great results.
EDIT: If you want a code example, I can post one here later?
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:57, 16 November 09
What else ?
Mystical, is it that bad ? I had it on my PC at the time, but CPC port looked quite well done.
Dragon spirit too.
Scramble spirit...ouch!
Dude, Mystical was half decent, especially on the GX4000. Dragon Spirit was naff, looked good but severley flawed, too hard for one. Scramble Spirit just felt half baked. I tell you a game that could have been fantastic on the CPC... Swiv, but they screwed the speed up. Great game, piss poor port.
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:57, 16 November 09
Honestly, I am not even sure more than 30% of CPC games used the full display (320x200 or 160x200...)
Probably less if the truth be known, but there are some fine examples like MegaBlasters, 3D Grand Prix, Sorcery +, Xyphoes Fantasy, Zap T Balls, and Mission Genocide.
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:57, 16 November 09
And "overscan games" were even rarest...
Maybe... 5-6... and a few 3-4 more to include a screen in Overscan (Shinobi text screens are in overscan, lol...)
Arkanoids 1 & 2, Titan, DonkeyKong, Ghouls'N ghost...what else ?
Wern't the Double dragon games by Richard Aplin using overscan?
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:57, 16 November 09
Msot run & gun games or even platforms didn't really used Scrolling :
Gryzor, Game Over, green Berret, Wizball (as it is some sort of shoot'em up...)
True, but I was playing the arcade version of Gryzor the other night, and the CPC version feels and plays just as good as the arcade original, and that's something to celebrate... fcuk yeah! By the way, Freddy Hardest was a great early side scroller, and I'm not sure when Astro Marine Corps came out, but that was a blinder also.
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:57, 16 November 09Also the lack of proper GUI in developpment tools made the graphic work harder to fullfill...And most game were to be ddone by a single nerdz in his basement...
This Geek Nerdz coder wasn't a real artist most a time, but a coder only...
From the interviews I've done over the months, the general feel from the whizz kids of the 80's was they were never given enough time on the Amstrad stuff.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 13:55, 12 April 10
If you want a code example, I can post one here later?
Please do that. I want to see the code example right now!
And thank you for the information about Rotovision.
Is it possible to enlarge the Video-Ram somehow?
Maybe some kind of "virtual video ram" that use a part of the main Ram?
The limited colours are the result from the "full" Video-Ram, isn´t it?
So it would be nice to have some more of the golden Video-Ram.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 15:24, 12 April 10
From the interviews I've done over the months, the general feel from the whizz kids of the 80's was they were never given enough time on the Amstrad stuff.
You´re right. So often the CPC had to play the second (or third) fiddle.
>If you want a code exmaple, I can post one here later?
Yes please - I'll double that request for getting some know-how on a vertical scroller...
(Is anyone else having issues using Chrome and posting to this forum? font sizing, boldness, odd colours? or is it just me? - oh, and none of those images appear at the top of the postings....)
Quote from: Leonie on 19:56, 12 April 10
Please do that. I want to see the code example right now!
And thank you for the information about Rotovision.
Is it possible to enlarge the Video-Ram somehow?
Maybe some kind of "virtual video ram" that use a part of the main Ram?
The limited colours are the result from the "full" Video-Ram, isn´t it?
So it would be nice to have some more of the golden Video-Ram.
You´re right. So often the CPC had to play the second (or third) fiddle.
Well I'll upload it tonight now.
I didn't read the forum until this morning (13th).
Enlarge video hardware: Yes, you can make the cpc use 32k of ram for the screen, this is one type of overscan.
But the crtc can never see more than 64k of ram (unless you use that c't memory expansion, but at the moment I don't know if the details of this are fully understood, so I don't know any more).
The limited colours are the result of the sprite drawing and nothing more.
You can make rotovision with full 16-colour sprites if you want.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 09:37, 13 April 10
Well I'll upload it tonight now.
I didn't read the forum until this morning (13th).
Enlarge video hardware: Yes, you can make the cpc use 32k of ram for the screen, this is one type of overscan.
But the crtc can never see more than 64k of ram (unless you use that c't memory expansion, but at the moment I don't know if the details of this are fully understood, so I don't know any more).
The limited colours are the result of the sprite drawing and nothing more.
You can make rotovision with full 16-colour sprites if you want.
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/MESS2.asm
This code has 2 static blocks (top and bottom) and a smooth scrolling middle part (using register 5).
Works on crtc type 0. Essentially it demonstrates the smooth vertical pixel scrolling shown in Rotovision.
I need to clean up some other sources and then I can release the sprite example and also an example that scrolls some tiles.
Are there any similar "waterproof" scrolling-routines like Rotovision for smooth horizontal-scrolling?
PS: I like the scrolling of "Star Sabre" very much, and the smooth sprites of "Dead On Time".
EDIT: The sprites of "Star Sabre" are, of course, also very smooth.
Does somebody know the blocky "R-Type"?
Star Sabre is so much better!
Quote from: arnoldemu on 21:11, 13 April 10
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/MESS2.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/MESS2.asm)
This code has 2 static blocks (top and bottom) and a smooth scrolling middle part (using register 5).
Works on crtc type 0. Essentially it demonstrates the smooth vertical pixel scrolling shown in Rotovision.
I need to clean up some other sources and then I can release the sprite example and also an example that scrolls some tiles.
Better than R-Type... really? I'm amazed anyone would think that?
Presumably Leonie was talking about the sprite smoothness?
Quote from: Leonie on 21:21, 13 April 10
Are there any similar "waterproof" scrolling-routines like Rotovision for smooth horizontal-scrolling?
PS: I like the scrolling of "Star Sabre" very much, and the smooth sprites of "Dead On Time".
EDIT: The sprites of "Star Sabre" are, of course, also very smooth.
Does somebody know the blocky "R-Type"?
Star Sabre is so much better!
I don't think there are any "waterproof" scrolling methods.
There are a few methods, but each has their problems:
1. reg 3 trick. This can be used to make the scrolling byte-by-byte. But the disadvantage is that it doesn't seem to work the same for all crtc, and also doesn't work with MP-1/MP-2 modulator.
2. have 2 screens, one has "shifted" graphics compared to the first. Great if the scrolling is only in one direction and always moving. If the scrolling stops or is multi-directional it is not so easy. I think Star Sabre uses this method.
Well R-Type vs Star Sabre... no competition here. R-Type is a game made on spectrum and transferred to cpc without using cpc hardware scrolling and without adjusting to the cpc's abilities.
Star Sabre is made and designed for cpc.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 21:11, 13 April 10
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/MESS2.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/MESS2.asm)
This code has 2 static blocks (top and bottom) and a smooth scrolling middle part (using register 5).
Works on crtc type 0. Essentially it demonstrates the smooth vertical pixel scrolling shown in Rotovision.
I need to clean up some other sources and then I can release the sprite example and also an example that scrolls some tiles.
This code is not ready for a game.
Really to be ready for a game the split and r5 scroll need to be done using interrupt routines. The code currently waits for interrupt with HALT and then does split. For a game this would waste too much cpu time waiting around.
Quote from: Gryzor on 07:28, 14 April 10
Presumably Leonie was talking about the sprite smoothness?
R-Type VS Star Sabre:
Yes, I mean the sprites and especially the scrolling.
The scrolling of R-Type works almost block by block.
It looks like there is a custums check for each block on the right side of the screen.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 09:34, 14 April 10
Well R-Type vs Star Sabre... no competition here. R-Type is a game made on spectrum and transferred to cpc without using cpc hardware scrolling and without adjusting to the cpc's abilities.
Star Sabre is made and designed for cpc.
Shut your hoar mouth ;)
Quote from: ukmarkh on 11:26, 14 April 10
Shut your hoar mouth ;)
Why?
Oh Lord it´s cocaine... :P :P :P :P :P :P
R-Type may as well be Cocaine. It's a helluva drug... and a helluva game.
Quote from: Leonie on 12:02, 14 April 10
Why?
Oh Lord it´s cocaine... :P :P :P :P :P :P
R-Type is technical not well done on the CPC.
Star Sabre gives a much better example of how to programm a game like this on the Amstrad.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 13:09, 14 April 10
R-Type may as well be Cocaine. It's a helluva drug... and a helluva game.
yes, visuals let it down, but gameplay is good.
Yes, that's the key... gameplay. I love Star sabre to bits, but to compare it to R-Type on the CPC because visuals let it down is massively missing the point.
R-Type gets the balance just right; and embodies a certain kind of spirit which can appeal to the underdog in all of us. For me R-Type gives the beginner a fighters chance, and rewards the experienced for playing well. Its also bursting with personality, a brilliantly crafted design, and you don't start out with a pea shooter for a weapon. Instead; the enemy is up against it from the word go. However; its depth and incredible variety of identifiable enemies, along with desperate end of level boss shoot outs has placed it as one of the genres greatest works. The arcade original is the definitive version, but the Pc Engine, Amiga, ZX Spectrum and Amstrad 8-bit conversions were highly accurate also.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:33, 14 April 10
yes, visuals let it down, but gameplay is good.
I like the graphic-design, the mood and the gameplay of R-Type too.
But R-Type for the CPC is nothing more than a jerky Spectrum-Port.
A kick up the arse.
The CPC is a machine with 27 Colours and 4 Mhz CPU.
Can´t we expect a little more than a almost-Locomotive-Basic-Shooter like R-Type?
It's not always about graphics, yes I love 'em as much as the next guy... and the CPC could deliver on that front. But don't let it cloud your judgement, we have a classic of a game in R-Type on the CPC, and that's all that matters.
Quote from: Leonie on 16:43, 14 April 10
I like the graphic-design, the mood and the gameplay of R-Type too.
But R-Type for the CPC is nothing more than a jerky Spectrum-Port.
A kick up the arse.
The CPC is a machine with 27 Colours and 4 Mhz CPU.
Can´t we expect a little more than a almost-Locomotive-Basic-Shooter like R-Type?
I've said it before, I love R-type to bits, even the CPC port (R-Type Leo! That'd have been great... :D), so I'll agree with ukmarkh and arnoldemu.
But to compare the two games is very unfair. I mean, the reasons we love R-Type were the product of a massive programming project: all the 'feeling' and 'gameplay' and atmosphere were there from the arcade, and I bet this wasn't coded by a lone programmer in his spare time!!!
"Dark Fusion" is another game with smooth horizontal scrolling, although it slows down sometimes.
But that doesn´t matter, the scrolling is really fine.
Can someone explain, why horizontal scrolling is more difficult to code than vertical scrolling?
Quote from: Leonie on 13:32, 15 April 10
"Dark Fusion" is another game with smooth horizontal scrolling, although it slows down sometimes.
But that doesn´t matter, the scrolling is really fine.
Can someone explain, why horizontal scrolling is more difficult to code than vertical scrolling?
for software scrolling:
- scrolling in y is line-by-line so it is smooth.
- in x, scrolling is normally done by moving bytes. in mode 0 this is 2 pixels at a time, in mode 1 it is 4 pixels and in mode 2 it is 8 pixels.
- scrolling a screen means lots of moving data which uses lots of cpu time. So you need big loops using LDI or similar instruction.
for hardware scrolling:
- at some point in the scroll you will find this problem.
when you want to move to next byte in x (move to right), you can't use a simple increment (e.g. x=x+1, or in asm this is often like this: INC HL).
You will find addresses like this:
C7FF->C000
CFFF->C800
!!!
So drawing sprites is slowed down because you must check for this problem.
- Drawing tiles for scroll is quick, because you can draw 2 bytes at a time (the number of bytes the screen scrolls with hardware horizontal scrolling). You draw a column of the tile at a time.
- hardware scroll is 2 bytes at a time: in mode 0 this is 4 pixels, in mode 1 this is 8 pixels, in mode 2 this is 16 pixels.
You can make this smaller using reg 3, then you move half this speed (mode 0 is 2 pixels).
If you were to use the hardware scroll for a horizontal shooter, you were faced with a nearly unplayable shooter, as the scroll was way too fast. You can play the likes of Killer Cobra to see the results of hardware scrolling.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:41, 15 April 10
If you were to use the hardware scroll for a horizontal shooter, you were faced with a nearly unplayable shooter, as the scroll was way too fast. You can play the likes of Killer Cobra to see the results of hardware scrolling.
Ah no, if you use hardware scrolling in X then it takes roughly 2 seconds to fly through one horizontal screen. Two seconds are an eternity.
And by the way I really don't know what's the problem with scrolling. It's just easy to program it on an CPC. Only with overscan it's a bit more work, but still doable.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:39, 18 April 10
Ah no, if you use hardware scrolling in X then it takes roughly 2 seconds to fly through one horizontal screen. Two seconds are an eternity.
And by the way I really don't know what's the problem with scrolling. It's just easy to program it on an CPC. Only with overscan it's a bit more work, but still doable.
Back in the day, 64K was the problem when using overscan.
If I remember well Titan was well multidirectionnal scrolled AND "overscan".
Quote from: MacDeath on 00:31, 19 April 10
If I remember well Titan was well multidirectionnal scrolled AND "overscan".
Not overscan, but was multidirectional hardware scroll.
Ok, sorry, not "overscan" but "full screen"...
Quote from: MacDeath on 18:01, 19 April 10
Ok, sorry, not "overscan" but "full screen"...
to enable "full screen" press Alt & Enter on your CPC :D
Whot? no Alt key? So no full screen :P
Quote from: arnoldemu on 21:11, 13 April 10
I need to clean up some other sources and then I can release the sprite example and also an example that scrolls some tiles.
Source for "rotovision" sprites has been uploaded. Source is not optimised and uses firmware functions, but shows the general method used. (sprites have 3 usable colours, colour 0 is transparent), background has 4 useable colours.
I made the graphics in this example and it shows that i am not a graphic artist ;)
EDIT: See programming section or
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/rotospr.asm
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 18:02, 19 April 10
to enable "full screen" press Alt & Enter on your CPC :D
Whot? no Alt key? So no full screen :P
I see it.. I have a alt key on my cpc :P
If the scrolling is too fast in this game press pause/break key.
What you don't have that one?
Too bad..
Quote from: ukmarkh on 20:29, 18 April 10
Back in the day, 64K was the problem when using overscan.
Back in the day, nobody never used overscan, but some demos.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 03:55, 20 April 10
Back in the day, nobody never used overscan, but some demos.
I saw it used for title screens for some titus games, and a few games did use splitting techniques, but you are correct about full overscan.
Problem is it uses a lot of ram on 64k machine.
Well I plan to upload some sources for others to try, so maybe this will kick some people for using overscan more?
At the time, in French press, every game with a bigger screen than the average 320x200 was said to be "overscan".
In fact most game that manage to remove 1 part of the border.
I loved those games because most of them had this kind of flavor that tell you this game is not like most others.
Donkey Kong, Arkanoid 1&2, Ghouls and Ghost (too bad the graphics are awfull).
Titan.
I must miss some others.
Shinobi displayed a bit of vertical full screen in the between missions, a tiny detail but it got my attention back in the day.
The magic with this is obvious : most games got a smaller game window.
Dynamic games despite good, were always small screened.
And the speccy porcs in 256x192 (often even less) instead of 320x200...
So when a game managed to remove the barrier of the border, it was a pure magic to me.
Another problem was the lack of its use in intro/cinematic pages.
Because of Cassette/tape and 464... Limited memory and loadings.
But a 6128 should really put a lot of this.
Quote from: MacDeath on 12:05, 20 April 10
And the speccy porcs in 256x192 (often even less) instead of 320x200...
I'll say it once again: I can't, for the life of me understand why they call 256x192 "high-res"... and they go on, and go on praising the Spectrum's "crisp", "clear" and "high-resolution" graphics, whereas in fact it was low-res, mostly monochrome and just plain paleolithic...
Btw, was Donkey Kong really overscan???
Donkey Kong or Arkanoid weren't "overscan" games.
They only manipulated CRTC registers to aspect of arcade games.
"overscan" means IMO = no visible border!
Yes, you're right in that definition, I asked if it was 'overscan' in MacDeath's definition :)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 03:55, 20 April 10
Back in the day, nobody never used overscan, but some demos.
Late in the day, I played Boogie Woogie (http://download.abandonware.org/magazines/Amstrad%20Cent%20Pour%20Cent/amstradcpc_numero47/A47_010.JPG)
(review from Amstrad Cent Pour Cent issue 47, April 1993) which uses fullscreen ingame. But it seems this game is nowhere to be found. Xyphoes Fantasy also uses fullscreen ingame in the Barbarian-like parts (level bosses).
Borderless was told to be "Overscan" in many magazine of the time, but of course it is not accurate, yet this meaning for the word sticked on.
Concerning the fine resolution of the speccy :
Well, it's because square pixels are fine.
Yet as we know the CPC let a bigger border with a speccy resolution (or equivalent).
As a result : Amstrad pixels are even more thin/slim then.
Even in Mode0 on the amstrad Monitor, you almost get slimer/thiner (what is the word ?) pixels than with a speccy on some TV.
The horizontal bordeless Mode0 with it's 192 pixels wide is indeed almost not as bad as a Nintendo entertainment system or a speccy.
The shame was mostly that the coders couldn't figure how to put a proper and decent HUD.
For exemple, many vertical shooters got a vertical HUD, while a smaller horizontal one on top or bottom of the screen could allow a better Arcade Feeling.
Perhaps it was too hard to cumulate this with a vertical scrolling...
Xevious is a prime exemple, but slap fight too with it's HUD bigger than the actual playing field...
But also Flying shark or 1943...with even a double HUD...leaving the playing field comparable to a Gameboy...lol.
That's perhaps were an Amstrad PLUS should manage vertical shooterz betterly : you can use Hardwired sprites to do the HUD juste as Fano did for Rick128+.
But HardSprites are perhaps better to be actually used for the game itself in the case of shooterz, as it may be a rare occasion to use them effectively. ;)
Also despite getting a speccy resolution, the Amstrad still often used it's 16Ko video Ram.
As it was said by Goodyer (R-Type porter)...
While Demomakers say that to reduce the screen resolution enable to lower the Video Ram used, Games Coders didn't...(or too rarely)
Another stuff :
to put an horizontal resolution of 256pixels (mode1 or equivalents in other modes) is said to enable some optimisations.
Yet it is still possible to put the space removed on the sides at the bottom or top of the screen.
320x200 = 64000pixels. the normal 16k Video Ram.
256x256 = 65536... 256pixels being the borderless vertical ...
256x240 = 61440... you just have 1 character line (8 pix) border at the top and at the bottom... Actually very decent resolution IMO...
Such a resolution should even enable to reduce the amount of Video Ram needed perhaps.
Yet how many games did use a 256x240 resolution ?
Quote from: Grim on 17:50, 20 April 10
Late in the day, I played Boogie Woogie (http://download.abandonware.org/magazines/Amstrad%20Cent%20Pour%20Cent/amstradcpc_numero47/A47_010.JPG) (review from Amstrad Cent Pour Cent issue 47, April 1993) which uses fullscreen ingame. But it seems this game is nowhere to be found. Xyphoes Fantasy also uses fullscreen ingame in the Barbarian-like parts (level bosses).
Bonjour,
Well, don't know Boogie Woogie. About Xyphoes Fantasy - great game!!! But it was released much late, in 1991 like I know. Was talking about the 80ies ;-)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 18:21, 20 April 10Was talking about the 80ies ;-)
You old fart! :)
Never heard of or seen any fullscreen ingame before the 90's too, only title screens or the starfield trick in Arkanoid.
Does anyone have a list of games that used OVERSCAN???
Quote from: Grim on 18:29, 20 April 10
You old fart! :)
Never heard of or seen any fullscreen ingame before the 90's too, only title screens or the starfield trick in Arkanoid.
Yes, man, will be 40 in july. Have to finish my CPC projects before, afterwards I'll be retired ;-)
If ever they changed the screen proportions in a game, but still used a 16 KB screen RAM, they called it fullscreen, but in fact it was overscan. Well, that's the way I learnt it, but maybe I'm wrong. Anybody has the right to define this for himself.
And why not use 256 * 256 (Mode 1)... or 128*256(Mode 0), it's the damn best mode to be used in a game, all calcualtions are done pretty easy. And the Z80 needs only rarely to use multiplications, because you can use ADD, everything is 2, 4, 8, 16... I love this mode ;-)
However, maybe only Arkanoid look good in that mode ;-)
QuoteAnd why not use 256 * 256
Simple fact : the Speccy could only display 256x192... :'(
Quotewill be 40 in july
I'll be 32 in july.
Reminds me an Helloween's song : time's marching on.
Quote from: MacDeath on 19:44, 22 April 10
Simple fact : the Speccy could only display 256x192... :'(
Slowly I begin to hate everything connected to speccy - especially resolutions and gfx!!! >:(
However, what we'll produce now will be way better :laugh:
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:52, 22 April 10
However, what we'll produce now will be way better :laugh:
I seriously doubt that, R-Type on the Speccy didn't get much wrong, and plays a mean game. Despite its limitations, everyone agrees it is a fantastic conversion. But hey prove me wrong, by all means :-\
For starters, and I appreciate the hard work you're doing... it looks like you guys are having to cut stuff from the game to get it to run at anything like the speed on the ZX Spectrum conversion. Then there's the ill fated decision to use the wrong resolution, mode 1 should never have been suggested. Anything other than mode 0 will just feel like a wanna be Speccy clone. Mode 0 would set it completely apart and feel more Amstrad.
If people are gonna do this, they should do it right. I have a terrible feeling about this project, but don't listen to me, no fcuker else does! And I wish you guys the best of luck. Don't take this to heart, as it's just one persons opinion, again the best of luck.
Ouch, you hurted my feelings... :'(
No, no problem with your opinion, I heard it a lot recently.
To be honnest, yes R-Type should be released in Mode0.
But as we are simply hacking the existing code, some part are missing to get a proper Mode0 IMO.
Sprites are unmasked.
There is not real background but the starfield.
And the screen is small.
As a result a mode0 would look blocky, and so on.
The pixel scrolling would olso be less smooth because wider pixels.
If we are to get it Mode0 let's just craft a proper brand new engine, and port R-Type2 then.
The thinking behind this modification was simply that Fano wanted to learn how the game was designed so he would get a lot of Idea for his own engine.
So while he is deciphering it, modding it is not such a big deal.
And to be honnest, i already spent a lot of time on those and personally, I like it, so it will wait until this one is finished.
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:56, 23 April 10
If we are to get it Mode0 let's just craft a proper brand new engine, and port R-Type2 then.
Well, to create an R-Type 2 would be indeed a very interesting idea! If you guys want to start such a project seriously, then I would like to support you as coder - in case you want me.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:26, 23 April 10
Well, to create an R-Type 2 would be indeet a damn good idea! If you guys want to start such a project seriously, then I would like to support you as coder - in case you want me.
OMG! R-Type II is the shmup i prefer but honnestly that would be a massacre to port it on CPC.
But , isn't that topic for Xevious ?
Quote from: fano on 17:37, 23 April 10
OMG! R-Type II is the shmup i prefer but honnestly that would be a massacre to port it on CPC.
But , isn't that topic for Xevious ?
Ok, I must confess, I was working toooo long on that microscope, seperating single cells from each other ;-) Right, I posted in the wrong topic.
And no ;-) I didn't know that R-Type 2 exists, because there is no CPC version. However I was thinking about a game similar to R-Type but made for CPC, a game which is using the advantages of the CPC. I should talk about this in the right thread. ... Sorry!
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:44, 23 April 10I should talk about this in the right thread. ... Sorry!
That was not about you but i noticed R-Type invades all over topics about other games lol
R-Type II is really a game to try as i owns a very special feeling...