feeling in a heretical mood so here is a debate:
Is Apple the new Amstrad?
Apple like Amstrad take existing technology and package it nicely, key difference is Amstrad prices were a lot lower.
Their devices use an old OS, Unix with a nice front end OSX, CPC/PCW had CPM
Open up any Apple computer and you will see something that looks strikingly like any other computer components wise.
I like Apple computers by the way and work on them daily fixing them mainly.
my view of Apple is like Microsoft they stopped innovating a while ago and are now buying in new ideas rather than generating them, also for what their product is, they are wildly over priced, nice but over priced.
I agree with you. Never had apple machines, never liked their policies.
It is not only apple though, every console/phone/computer has two choices nowdays, intel/arm followed by 4-5 gpus that everybody use.
It will be very expensive for someone to try something new, but apple do this with everyday hardware... high prices with std hardware.
Today stability comes in the price of boredom ;D
Quote from: dcdrac on 14:06, 08 March 15
my view of Apple is like Microsoft they stopped innovating a while ago and are now buying in new ideas rather than generating them, also for what their product is, they are wildly over priced, nice but over priced.
When did apple ever innovate?? Other than the extremely early apples, everything after that was a copy of something that was already invented by someone else. The big difference between apple and the others is that apple only ever does something if they can make money from it by locking you into one of their services, whereas the others will integrate new features that the user might find useful.
Comparing Amstrad to Apple is an insult to Amstrad. Amstrad made devices that really thought about the user, keeping the price low and even supplying a monitor so that you weren't hogging the TV. Apple makes self serving devices that are hugely over-priced and market them to people who don't know what the current cutting edge features are by making them shiny.
Bryce.
I personally do not rate apple computers as overpriced. Yes my hexacore Xeon Mac pro with 16gb ram cost the thick end of 3500 euro. But if I were to build a linux desktop to the same spec it would firstly cost about the same, and the case would be thiner, cheaper and noisier. When it comes down to it, with the old Mac pro (before the current waste paper basket design) you really do get a premium product. In a 2mm thick machined aluminium case that dissipates heat so well it runs close to silent, even when under heavy use encoding video and audio in realtime.
A similar spec machine would have cost a similar price, and not had an os that just *works*. It would have been tinker time with Linux or a windows machine that *just* works.
To my mind that is money well spent.
Before I get labeled as an apple fanboy, let me add. IOS is not a patch on android, and apple just killed the only decent iPod with the end of life of the iPod classic.
I agree that apple hardware seems overpriced at first sight, but lasts longer, design is well thought and in general is less noisy. I've been a pc guy all my life and recently bought a high end macbook pro, worth every penny. As for having and old os, well, linux is a unix derivative too, and newer versions are quite improved. Simply put, the unix architecture is still very good.
I have working non apple laptops that are 5-10 years old still working.
Wasn't OSX based on BSD?
@dcdrac Yes, me too, but modern laptops get broken too easily or become less usable over time, at least in my experience.
@McKlain Yes, BSD being another Unix variant.
XD
Quote from: dcdrac on 14:06, 08 March 15
feeling in a heretical mood so here is a debate:
Is Apple the new Amstrad?
Apple like Amstrad take existing technology and package it nicely, key difference is Amstrad prices were a lot lower.
Their devices use an old OS, Unix with a nice front end OSX, CPC/PCW had CPM
Open up any Apple computer and you will see something that looks strikingly like any other computer components wise.
I like Apple computers by the way and work on them daily fixing them mainly.
my view of Apple is like Microsoft they stopped innovating a while ago and are now buying in new ideas rather than generating them, also for what their product is, they are wildly over priced, nice but over priced.
And here goes my first post to this forum :)
lets do this
a) OS is an old OS. Not really , MacOS is inspired by UNIX and based on BSD. Meaning using 0% Unix code, and using some BSD code which is also a unix inspired OS. Unix was closed source , BSD is open source. But there the similarities end, code wise. MACOSX has its own kernel Darwin and a ton of other code.
b) Apple has stopped innovating - Not Really. As a matter of fact they innovated just recently with the introduction of 5K iMac . 5K iMac is not only the only 5K computer (unless I missed something) its also the only computer out there that costs as much as it costs to get a 5K monitor (at least at the time it was announced). And they have of course introduced a ton of technology to their consumer making them the undisputed kings of innovation when it comes to computer technology at mass production.
But my favorite innovation that Apple has stubbornly continued to focus on is the all in one computer. Which of course reminds me a lot of the old home computers. Of course I have to say here that I am very biased because I love my iMac and I have a soft spot for all in one computers.
c) Apple is the new Amstrad - Again I will disagree, Amstrad focus was low price , Apple focus is on design and the overall feel of the product. There are fundamentally diffirent companies and my vote goes definetly to Apple.
My iMAc reminds me a lot of the Amiga 500 , because they are extremely elegant computers , but still Amiga was cutting edge technology at the time , iMac is not.
d) Apple products are overpriced- People using this remark to mean that they can get a similar product for much lower price. But what they fail also to mention that the similar product will have several compromises in build quality, software included, design and reliability. The real meaning of "overpriced" is a product that is priced so high that the majority of people think its a waste of money. The popularity of Apple products says a completely diffirent story and the fact that Apple is the biggest company out there by far.
So to sum it up , yes Apple is diffirent kind of beast to Amstrad. Very diffirent.
Quote from: kilon on 08:17, 09 March 15
b) Apple has stopped innovating - Not Really. As a matter of fact they innovated just recently with the introduction of 5K iMac . 5K iMac is not only the only 5K computer (unless I missed something) its also the only computer out there that costs as much as it costs to get a 5K monitor (at least at the time it was announced). And they have of course introduced a ton of technology to their consumer making them the undisputed kings of innovation when it comes to computer technology at mass production.
If Apple where doing the LCD panel design and manufacturing, I would say Apple innovates. But there, Apple merly buy it from a compagny that is innovating ....
Quote from: kilon on 08:17, 09 March 15
d) Apple products are overpriced- People using this remark to mean that they can get a similar product for much lower price. But what they fail also to mention that the similar product will have several compromises in build quality, software included, design and reliability. The real meaning of "overpriced" is a product that is priced so high that the majority of people think its a waste of money. The popularity of Apple products says a completely diffirent story and the fact that Apple is the biggest company out there by far.
The trend in Apple product is to prevent any HW upgrade/repair in the name of 'ease of use' and design bullshit. To my mind, paying more for less flexibility is a waste of money.
Quote from: kilon on 08:17, 09 March 15
b) Apple has stopped innovating - Not Really. As a matter of fact they innovated just recently with the introduction of 5K iMac .
While I agree with some of your post (welcome to the forum by the way), you seem to have mis-understood the word "innovation". Increasing the resolution of a monitor isn't innovation. Bringing completely new features and design methods is innovation. Things like adding touchscreen to a laptop, power cords that are magnetic so that you don't kill yourself or your device when you trip over it, the mouse, windows based OSs, these are innovations, not upping the specs of an existing feature.
And as far as I know, not a single one of these innovations came from Apple, although, due to a seriously broken patent system in the U.S. they still managed to patent some of these under the name Apple.
Bryce.
Quote from: gerald on 08:55, 09 March 15
If Apple where doing the LCD panel design and manufacturing, I would say Apple innovates. But there, Apple merly buy it from a compagny that is innovating ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation (//http://)
"Innovation differs from invention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention) in that innovation refers to the use of a better and, as a result, novel idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity) itself"
And even in this case it up to intepretation . Innovation, in this context, for me means to bring something new to a mass scale. Because obviously I dont want to buy a computer for relative unknown company. So for me innovation is a general idea and it boils down what me as consumer is getting out of this. If I am getting the only 5k all in one computer, well thats enough for me to define that as "big time innovation" .
You are more than welcome to disagree with me :)
QuoteThe trend in Apple product is to prevent any HW upgrade/repair in the name of 'ease of use' and design bullshit. To my mind, paying more for less flexibility is a waste of money.
"to my mind" is the key phrase here. Personally I don't care about upgrades, I prefer waiting a few years and getting a new computer far more efficient for my needs. In the end its not about you and me, I may be a Apple fan boy, you may be an Apple hater but there are billions of people that their opinions matter too not any less than yours and mine.
Even the voices about freedom and flexibility and openess are very loud, again, the huge success of the Apple as a company and its huge loyal following tell a very different story.
By the way I am, as well as many other Apple fanboys, also a big open source fanboy ;)
So life its a bit more complex than black and white.
Also I would like to add what according to me makes Amstrad and Apple a different but still in the same family. Both companies wanted to provide an overall fun experience for the user and they have succeeded several times in doing so. They both saw computers as way more than the sum of its parts and that has influenced me tremendously as a person on the way I think as computer as not only mere machines but as friends.
Quote from: kilon on 09:34, 09 March 15
Both companies wanted to provide an overall fun experience for the user and they have succeeded several times in doing so. They both saw computers as way more than the sum of its parts and that has influenced me tremendously as a person on the way I think as computer as not only mere machines but as friends.
While I'm not an Apple fanboy, I do own several Apple devices, but the thing that annoys me most about Apple is that their intention is definitely NOT "to provide an overall fun experience for the user", their aim is to lock people into their services. The best example of this is with the iPhones Bluetooth software. Is it "Fun" for the user, that Apple deliberately added code to block it from connecting to anything other than an Apple device? I don't think so. This was unnecessary and self-serving.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 09:43, 09 March 15
While I'm not an Apple fanboy, I do own several Apple devices, but the thing that annoys me most about Apple is that their intention is definitely NOT "to provide an overall fun experience for the user", their aim is to lock people into their services. The best example of this is with the iPhones Bluetooth software. Is it "Fun" for the user, that Apple deliberately added code to block it from connecting to anything other than an Apple device? I don't think so. This was unnecessary and self-serving.
Bryce.
Dont know about iPhone but my iMac and my macbook air connects fine via bluetooth with my Google Nexus 4 smartphone that I use sometime to get internet when my adsl is down. They also even connect fine via wifi and usb.
No clue why Apple would do that to iPhone and not other products as well. But I got an iPhone for my father so I will definetly put your claim to the test, I am very curious.
Only Apple I could compare an Amstrad to would be an IIc, but it's still got the wrong processor, standard 5.25" Disk Drive (140kB thank you very much), had a price tag of $1295. There was an IIc Plus, but I think the enhancements were merely more than an Increase of CPU speed to 4Mhz and 3.5" Disk Drive capability (800k & quicker Disk Drive access, though wasn't necessarily due to the improved CPU speed according to this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_IIc_Plus)) & some enhancements on Power Supply.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 18:48, 08 March 15
Before I get labeled as an apple fanboy, let me add. IOS is not a patch on android, and apple just killed the only decent iPod with the end of life of the iPod classic.
Really? I've been waiting til my ipod touch 2 dies (hopefully soon) to go back to the classic. So much better if all you want to do is listen to music like me.
I'll be getting one second hand as usual but now prices will probably go up.
But that's apple for you ;D
Amstrad was doing Ms-Dos / GEM / Windows PCs.
and those machines were quite cheap.
That's the main difference between Apple and Amstrad.
a PCW can be dubbed as a cheapass Mac in text interface.
I would more compare Apple to Commodore/Amiga indeed.
But actually most manufacturer with specific system and niche market in some industries can pretend, and Apple, Amstrad, Atari and Commodore were into this actually.
Amstrad : cheapos 8 bit computers and low end word processor, cheapo IBM compatible PCs.
Atari : Cheapo 16 bit computers, for Music also.
Amiga : Video oriented machines.
Now Apple took place of both Amiga and Atari actually, and was already marketed as high end word processor.
But success in high end market (journalism, architects, musicians, doctors, writers and so on) is mostly due to executives/artists being prone to want high priced computers and knowing nothing about it so they won't assemble a computer themself.
Most Apple's innovation is in marketing actually and fanboyism pushed to the extreme.
I quite enjoy MAC OS actually, some things are nice, but Win8 is really becoming closer to this as well.
And if I want a computer to do some technical stuffs, I think I would one assembled for this purpose with possibility to easily change parts or evolve it.
So no "tube" nor screen/motherboard combo please...
oh, do you know what my job is ? sorry, signed a contract, can't tell.
But yeah, I work on a Mac on a daily basis and talk to Mac/iOS users on a daily basis as well.
you would be surprised that many believe a 5 years old MacBook "pro" with only 4gb can process a 5minutes video montage in very highest resolution all in full quality" in 1920x1080 because iMovie let the option...
="oh, the computer is making noise"
=dude, do you even know what a video card is ?
So believe me, reality is far from the marketing campaigns.
Peoples speaking again Apple computers and inovations generally never used their products to be objective and have clichés to speak about them.
The problem is always the same: A company is the hell if it have a too big succes... Apple is that since 10 years only.
The title "apple the new Amstrad" shown that peoples forget that Apple does that before in 80's.
For the short story, the Discology look&feel existed because his creator used a Machintosh.
Can you think of any 8 bit computer other than Apple, for which people can put as high price tags as $12k on eBay? I bet that if Steve Jobs hadn't returned to Apple in 1997, people wouldn't be asking such ludicrous prices for 30 year old hardware, which by no means can be considered rare.
The only similarity I can think between Apple and Amstrad that Apple at some point started offering their products bundled the same way as Amstrad did already back in the 80's.
I use macs every day as part of my work and see little to choose between them and any other computer I use at work in real terms now apart from price.
Quote from: kilon on 09:34, 09 March 15
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation (//http://)
"Innovation differs from invention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention) in that innovation refers to the use of a better and, as a result, novel idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity) itself"
This is a bullshit definition IMHO, and a good sign one must not take Wikipedia as the Holy Bible. "better"="novel"? What the actual fuck?
What you describe further down your argument, about bringing new stuff to the mass market place, is not innovation either - that's facilitation. The fact that Edison, such a classic example, patented so much stuff and made it popular does not make him an innovator (though he did improve on some of those ideas).
What I loath about Apple, and incidentally what happened with Edison as well, is the abuse of the patent system it employs. You can argue Apple is innovative but the net effect for society and economy? More like putting a damper on it. I remember reading about a Victorian gynecologist who invented the pliers they use to pull out babies that are in the wrong position at labour. Well he did innovate, and he did invent. But the fact that he actually patented that device meant that thousands upon thousands of less fortunate babies had to die.
That, of course, is not a characteristic solely of Apple. But Apple has taken it to new heights (rectangular tablets with rounded corners, anyone?)
(oh, this reminded me of this:)
[attachimg=1]
Also, I'll just leave this here as a parting word:
[attach=3]
The Oxford English Dictionary says:
Definition of invent in English:
verb [with object]
1Create (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/create#create__3) or design (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/design#design__3) (something that has not existed (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/exist#exist__4) before); be the originator (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/originator#originator__3) of: he invented an improved (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/improve#improve__3) form of the steam engine (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/steam-engine#steam-engine__2)
1.1Make up (an idea (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/idea#idea__3), name (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/name#name__3), story (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/story#story__3), etc. (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/etc.#etc.__3)), especially so as to deceive (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/deceive#deceive__3) someone: I did not have to invent any tales (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tale#tale__3) about my past (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/past#past__9)
Definition of innovate in English:
verb [no object]
1Make changes (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/change#change__32) in something established (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/establish#establish__4), especially by introducing (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/introduce#introduce__3) new methods (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/method#method__3), ideas (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/idea#idea__3), or products (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/product#product__3): the company's failure (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/failure#failure__3) to diversify (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/diversify#diversify__4) and innovate competitively (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/competitively#competitively__3)
1.1 [with object] Introduce (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/introduce#introduce__3) (something new, especially a product (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/product#product__3)): we continue (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/continue#continue__3) to innovate new products (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/product#product__3)
Bryce.
Quote from: Gryzor on 21:26, 23 March 15
This is a bullshit definition IMHO, and a good sign one must not take Wikipedia as the Holy Bible. "better"="novel"? What the actual fuck?
What you describe further down your argument, about bringing new stuff to the mass market place, is not innovation either - that's facilitation. The fact that Edison, such a classic example, patented so much stuff and made it popular does not make him an innovator (though he did improve on some of those ideas).
What I loath about Apple, and incidentally what happened with Edison as well, is the abuse of the patent system it employs. You can argue Apple is innovative but the net effect for society and economy? More like putting a damper on it. I remember reading about a Victorian gynecologist who invented the pliers they use to pull out babies that are in the wrong position at labour. Well he did innovate, and he did invent. But the fact that he actually patented that device meant that thousands upon thousands of less fortunate babies had to die.
That, of course, is not a characteristic solely of Apple. But Apple has taken it to new heights (rectangular tablets with rounded corners, anyone?)
(oh, this reminded me of this:)
[attachimg=1]
Also, I'll just leave this here as a parting word:
[attach=3]
Life is complex. As you may know , one man's treasure is another man's garbage. Its the essense of individualism to prioritize diffirently.
"What I loath about Apple, and incidentally what happened with Edison as well, is the abuse of the patent system it employs."
Frankly I dont blame Apple, if we lived in the world where companies are all the good guys and Apple is the bad apple (pun intended) then sure I would loath her. But in the world where greed is only ideal Apple tries to defend what its rightful her property and her ideas. Its not that hard to see that other companies have been copying Apple to take a piece of the pie. Other companies are not any less ruthless. The diffirence is that Apple dares to think diffirent (pun intended once again) , without Apple the computing world would be an extremely boring place to live in. For many people including me. It would be nothing more than glacial pace of one tiny improvement to another. Just take a look at the phone market before apple, table market before Apple , OS market before Apple etc etc etc.
If we want a world where companies are not ruthlessly greedy then its up to us to change it. Just putting the blame on a single company wont change a thing.
But thats my opinion and most likely the opinion of great deal of people who love Apple products and who like me find Apple the very definition of innovator(and inventor in some cases). There are things that I definetly don't like about Apple , but in the end it is my No1 choice for many technology orientated products.
On the other hand I have zero issues with people hating Apple. Its a huge world, there is room for all of us :)
Ps: Cant say I understand the meaning of last two photos.
Quote from: kilon on 21:48, 23 March 15
Life is complex. As you may know , one man's treasure is another man's garbage. Its the essense of individualism to prioritize diffirently.
"What I loath about Apple, and incidentally what happened with Edison as well, is the abuse of the patent system it employs."
Frankly I dont blame Apple, if we lived in the world where companies are all the good guys and Apple is the bad apple (pun intended) then sure I would loath her. But in the world where greed is only ideal Apple tries to defend what its rightful her property and her ideas.
Um, no... Apple is known to abuse the patent system so much it's absurd to speak of "their property and ideas" :D
Quote from: kilon on 21:48, 23 March 15without Apple the computing world would be an extremely boring place to live in.
A very big thing to say, and it could be said for a fair number other companies as well, of course. As I'm typing this, for instance, I'm watching the documentary series "Once Upon Atari" ;)
[/size]Quote from: kilon on 21:48, 23 March 15Just take a look at the phone market before apple, table market before Apple , OS market before Apple etc etc etc.
Yup, two instances where Apple swooped down, gulping existing ideas and coming up with a mass market product that indeed, pushed the industry forward.
[/size][/size]Quote from: kilon on 21:48, 23 March 15
Ps: Cant say I understand the meaning of last two photos.
The first is from the TV series "The Office", from the episode where the parent company "invents" the triangular tablet. The second is, of course, the hugely innovative golden Apple Watch :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 21:57, 23 March 15
Um, no... Apple is known to abuse the patent system so much it's absurd to speak of "their property and ideas" :D
I have not been following the whole patent story very closely, as a lawyer I know what a legal disaster Copyright and Patents are in general and what mess they create in the process. I have several client entangled in this mess. As you can imagine I have seen several things in my life that make little logical sense in the name of profit. Sadly this is the world we live in and we dont do anything about it. We love to complain about it, but thats about it.
QuoteA very big thing to say, and it could be said for a fair number other companies as well, of course. As I'm typing this, for instance, I'm watching the documentary series "Once Upon Atari" ;)
Yes I was implying current companies and sure Apple is not the only one. Atari was great (is it still around ?), Commodore too and many many more. But if you take a look at the majority of current "big" companies you know what I am talking about.
"The first is from the TV series "The Office", from the episode where the parent company "invents" the triangular tablet. The second is, of course, the hugely innovative golden Apple Watch :D "
The golden Apple watch is definitely not innovative. It makes zero sense for the average human being. But I dont think they market it as such, they try to approach a ludicrous rich crowd. The type of crowd that buys bottle water decorated with Swarovsky diamonds. Kinda strange I see no complains about golden Rolexes but tons for golden Apple watches. Well not that strange because of Apple's popularity ;)
As I said I don't like everything Apple does.
Quote from: kilon on 22:12, 23 March 15
Atari was great (is it still around ?),
The real Atari is long gone. The twatty company using the Atari name is still around. And still doing twatty things from what I read the other day about Jeff Minter's TxK.
Quote from: Carnivac on 22:24, 23 March 15
The real Atari is long gone. The twatty company using the Atari name is still around. And still doing twatty things from what I read the other day about Jeff Minter's TxK.
Yeah I remember something similar but I was not surprised, it had been a long time they made a really good game. Very sad to see all these amazing companies fade out :(
Makes me wonder how cool would be if we still had new Amigas every year.
it did strike me as bad the holding company that Atari have become having a pop at Jeff Minter.
Never owned an Apple device, and maybe I never will. I did, however, have to buy an iPad for my daughter for school, now she wants to know how to play mp3s and give it more than 32M of memory (like she could do with her cheap HP).
Quote from: Executioner on 01:00, 25 March 15
Never owned an Apple device, and maybe I never will. I did, however, have to buy an iPad for my daughter for school, now she wants to know how to play mp3s and give it more than 32M of memory (like she could do with her cheap HP).
The first generation ipad has 256 MB DDR RAM, G2 has 512 MB, G3 has 1GB and G4 1-2 GB depending on the model. Also first time I hear about a tablet , old or new , that offers memory upgrades. Which HP model is it ?
Playing mp3s on iPad is a default feature since version G1. It would be no exaggeration to state that a huge part of MP3s success is owed to Apple's iPod.
Quote from: Executioner on 01:00, 25 March 15
Never owned an Apple device, and maybe I never will. I did, however, have to buy an iPad for my daughter for school, now she wants to know how to play mp3s and give it more than 32M of memory (like she could do with her cheap HP).
I simply adore apple computers, the last model Mac pro, which is my main desktop machine is awesome (OK the current design with zero internal expansion is pretty useless), I also have a mac book pro for when I am out and about and my wife uses a Mac mini i7 (which is incredibly powerful for such a small machine). However I really think iOS devices are overpriced junk when compared to the competition. Such a shame the new Mac pro offers no one internal expansion, and the iPod classic got killed off.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 08:40, 25 March 15
I simply adore apple computers, the last model Mac pro, which is my main desktop machine is awesome (OK the current design with zero internal expansion is pretty useless), I also have a mac book pro for when I am out and about and my wife uses a Mac mini i7 (which is incredibly powerful for such a small machine). However I really think iOS devices are overpriced junk when compared to the competition. Such a shame the new Mac pro offers no one internal expansion, and the iPod classic got killed off.
Well I was thinking the same thing about iPads being overpriced. So even though I got a G1 when it was time to upgrade I decided not to get an iPad and instead get the best Android tablet at the time. Samsung Galaxy note 10.5. Same price as ipad, 500 euros. Spec wise superior to ipad, no doubt, especially on the gpu which what I wanted it for to give a try on coding 3d graphics on Android.
Long story short I never got around to coding 3d graphics on it because I could not stand Java coding and in the mean time I converted to a new programming language Pharo which has no support for Android. But one day I realised why , well at least for me, iPads are not overpriced. All I had to do is take the table with me on the beach. Under the Greek sun , the screen just disappeared, could not handle the brightness and even under shadow it was making thing very hard to read. At first I thought that was normal but just because I was curious I decided the next day to take with me on the beach both tablet my G1 ipad and the Note. Side by side comparison it was like night and day , I mean literally . I could read the ipad , was bright and could handle even direct sunlight from the Greek sun with ease , Note even under shadow was painful and impossible to read under direct sunlight even with brightness at maximum level. Ipad did not even need to go to maximum setting.
I don't regret getting an Android tablet , If I did I would have not gotten also an Android Google Nexus 4 phone which by the way has the exact same issue. Now when I go to the beach I take my kindle instead or the iPad :)
Quote from: kilon on 08:57, 25 March 15
Well I was thinking the same thing about iPads being overpriced. So even though I got a G1 when it was time to upgrade I decided not to get an iPad and instead get the best Android tablet at the time. Samsung Galaxy note 10.5. Same price as ipad, 500 euros. Spec wise superior to ipad, no doubt, especially on the gpu which what I wanted it for to give a try on coding 3d graphics on Android.
Long story short I never got around to coding 3d graphics on it because I could not stand Java coding and in the mean time I converted to a new programming language Pharo which has no support for Android. But one day I realised why , well at least for me, iPads are not overpriced. All I had to do is take the table with me on the beach. Under the Greek sun , the screen just disappeared, could not handle the brightness and even under shadow it was making thing very hard to read. At first I thought that was normal but just because I was curious I decided the next day to take with me on the beach both tablet my G1 ipad and the Note. Side by side comparison it was like night and day , I mean literally . I could read the ipad , was bright and could handle even direct sunlight from the Greek sun with ease , Note even under shadow was painful and impossible to read under direct sunlight even with brightness at maximum level. Ipad did not even need to go to maximum setting.
I don't regret getting an Android tablet , If I did I would have not gotten also an Android Google Nexus 4 phone which by the way has the exact same issue. Now when I go to the beach I take my kindle instead or the iPad :)
the screen brightness issues are manufacturer specific. I have no issues with any of my HTC phones or Asus nexus 7, although friends with Samsung devices have the same issue you report, even under the Irish sun.
BTW my work out of hours support phone is a Samsung, and the screen on that is invisible even on a cloudy day as soon as you step outside. :(
Samsung android devices IMHO are cheeply made, with nasty plastics and overrated. HTC and OnePlus for example make much better quality handsets.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 09:10, 25 March 15
the screen brightness issues are manufacturer specific. I have no issues with any of my HTC phones or Asus nexus 7, although friends with Samsung devices have the same issue you report, even under the Irish sun.
BTW my work out of hours support phone is a Samsung, and the screen on that is invisible even on a cloudy day as soon as you step outside. :(
Samsung android devices IMHO are cheeply made, with nasty plastics and overrated. HTC and OnePlus for example make much better quality handsets.
Its not a big issues for me as I said, I use tablet and phone 99% indoor. Its more of an issue that my Nexus battery dies after a couple of hours of normal usage but that is to be expected from a smartphone with a big screen.
Quote from: Executioner on 01:00, 25 March 15
Never owned an Apple device, and maybe I never will. I did, however, have to buy an iPad for my daughter for school, now she wants to know how to play mp3s and give it more than 32M of memory (like she could do with her cheap HP).
Oooo, we went through that battle too! It was hilarious! The school said the kids MUST have iPads for access to material - fight broke out, especially from parents who either don't like apple or had just recently bought the child an Android device. School / parent meeting where the "IT Teacher" blundered his way through his pathetic arguments. Parents including laywers, several professional IT people etc made his evening a misery, the headmaster panicked that he might have to fund the whole project and it was killed off that evening. The
sheep parents that had gone out and bought one without a fight tried to get the school to refund the money, but I don't think they got very far. In the end it turned out that all documents would be pdf anyway :D
Bryce.
Have to wonder where Xerox are these days which is where Steve Jobs built his Apple GUI empire.
Quote from: kilon on 08:34, 25 March 15
The first generation ipad has 256 MB DDR RAM, G2 has 512 MB, G3 has 1GB and G4 1-2 GB depending on the model. Also first time I hear about a tablet , old or new , that offers memory upgrades. Which HP model is it ?
Sprry, my mistake, I wrote 32M when I meant 32GB. The shitty $99 HP Plus 7 has the ability to plug in a Micro-SD. Admittedly, it's then only 8 + 32 = 40GB, but it's a very cheap device compared to the $400 iPad Mini.
Quote
Playing mp3s on iPad is a default feature since version G1. It would be no exaggeration to state that a huge part of MP3s success is owed to Apple's iPod.
I haven't actually tried this myself, can you just copy them somewhere on it and play or do you have to use iTunes.
I have no interest in any modern apple products so I guess the answer to the question is a definitive no for me.
Of course this is subjective but its not subjective to consider how repairable an amstrad product is compared to modern apple products.
I always thought Amstrad was moving more towards the PC. The original CPC was looking less fancy than C64 or Amiga (only the later CPC+ tried to look more like them), it was a dark grey rectangular computer, but had highres 640*200 mode for word processor, fast loading disk, felt too sturdy and serious for a computer, maybe focused more for work and learning besides gaming. Later the went on with Amstrad PCW totally for the office and even tried to get into the PC market. So, I'd rather say Alan aimed for something more useful like the PC and less fancy than Apple, C64 or Amiga.
In fact, I find it funny that the PC is the only computer without a brand. I mean, it doesn't have a characteristic sign, that you can tatoo or something. It's a generic box without soul or special identity that although is so expandable and does everything you need. Focus on usefulleness rather than brand or style. Thinking it for a second time, did the Amstrad have some identity? I mean, what is the logo of Amstrad? Some special colorful shape? That bugged me for a long. Does the CPC have a logo that is a classic? That a fan could tatoo or sticker? Maybe it's just the Amstrad letters? On Pouet for example, we have the classic Commodore logo for C64, rainbow bands for Spectrum, Atari fuji logo for atari, Amiga has the Amigaball. But CPC has the blue screen, but no characteristic brand logo. No special identity. Or is it?
Maybe Amstrad was focusing less on advertising brand, less on fandom like Apple, and more on making a machine actually is more useful overall, reaching PC status.
Well repairability (or lack of it) is a problem for most modern electronics, especially for mobile devices. You can't make something sleak and compact and still expect it to be easy to disassemble. This isn't an Apple issue, it's just a fact of life. I've recently fixed both Apple and Android phones and they are a nightmare to get into and re-build.
@Optimus (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=39): The PC is an architecture, not a company. Laptops have more "identity" than desktops. With desktops the identity tends to be with Intel/nVidia or other components, rather than the entire device.
Amstrad Logo:
[attach=2]
Isn't that their logo/identity??
Bryce.
Quote from: Executioner on 11:03, 25 March 15
Sorry, my mistake, I wrote 32M when I meant 32GB. The shitty $99 HP Plus 7 has the ability to plug in a Micro-SD. Admittedly, it's then only 8 + 32 = 40GB, but it's a very cheap device compared to the $400 iPad Mini.
Thats storage , not Ram and yes you cant extend it as conveniently as a Micro-SD. There are workarounds, you should be able to share your pc/ mac storage with an ipad and move files wirelessly via airdrop. Most likely there many third party solutions and you can even connect via usb the ipad to an external hard drive though personally i prefer wifi. Some external hard drives offer wifi storage too.
QuoteI haven't actually tried this myself, can you just copy them somewhere on it and play or do you have to use iTunes.
iTunes is very easy , just a matter of drag n drop but there are tons of ways to move data between your ipad and other devices, third party apps, wifi, bluetooth, email etc etc.
Quote from: Optimus on 11:26, 25 March 15
In fact, I find it funny that the PC is the only computer without a brand. I mean, it doesn't have a characteristic sign, that you can tatoo or something. It's a generic box without soul or special identity that although is so expandable and does everything you need.
I find the PC pretty expendable really. I have never had any attachment to any of the PC's I've owned. I still have my Amiga 1200 and my Amstrad CPC 464. Both of which still work pretty much perfectly. The various PC's I've had since 2000 have just been junked as they broke down and got too expensive to fix. I have no warm fuzzy memories of playing games on PC's. To me they are just something to work on and store files. It's true I like my laptop moreso than any of the frankensteiny desktop PC's I've had (mainly for the fact I can just fold it up and put it away and feel nicely detached from all the computer crap for a bit) but even then I'd have no second thought about replacing it when it no can longer do what I require of it.
Now I am thinking it, since people talk about innovations, the fact that they made the PCs so expandable, add any graphics card, sound card, device, etc you want on the motherboard, just build it as you want, I could say is one of the most important innovations. That change of politics. It could be that it just happened, of course the hardware was designed to accept this, but yeah PC is not a brand I get it, it was just companies trying to clone the IBM. But it changed everything. We may all think of PCs like the boring stupid box and always praise Amiga or Mac or whatever, but there is your innovations. From specific hardware in classy boxes, to generic hardware that you can build accordingly to your needs. And then there was the vast software and open source movement (although I am not much into Linux, just a windows programmer/user/gamer, but it's the same logic and I respect it). It would be more boring world without PCs, there I said it :)
Quote from: Optimus on 14:03, 25 March 15
Now I am thinking it, since people talk about innovations, the fact that they made the PCs so expandable, add any graphics card, sound card, device, etc you want on the motherboard, just build it as you want, I could say is one of the most important innovations. That change of politics. It could be that it just happened, of course the hardware was designed to accept this, but yeah PC is not a brand I get it, it was just companies trying to clone the IBM. But it changed everything. We may all think of PCs like the boring stupid box and always praise Amiga or Mac or whatever, but there is your innovations. From specific hardware in classy boxes, to generic hardware that you can build accordingly to your needs. And then there was the vast software and open source movement (although I am not much into Linux, just a windows programmer/user/gamer, but it's the same logic and I respect it). It would be more boring world without PCs, there I said it :)
Its not only an innovation and I say it as big Apple fan (but not fanatic) , PC was a revolution. What IBM did pretty much reinvented the computer industry and played a pivot role in the evolution of hardware technology. I do think however what PCs did was inevitable really. Computer is far too useful not to be versatile and offered in great variety .
So its kinda idiotic to dismiss the value of the PC revolution.
Regarding the Greek sun: my dirt-cheap, especially for its specs, Nexus 7 2013/LTE has no trouble dealing with it. Although I don't take it on the beach, usually - too big. On the beach my HTC devices have served me well, even if their screen is definitely not the most bright among Android brands.
Regarding the Amstrad branding: I think @Optimus (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=39) has a couple of very valid points here; working in marketing I've always thought about it: Amstrad did build a brand equity, however they did precious little to promote it. It's a pity they didn't make a nice little logo to flash upon boot or something...
for me the Macs I have provided by work no better than my non mac, computers. I like them both each has their use.
Why did Amstrad lose it's way in the 1990s?
some say it was due to a HDD provider that screwed it up a lot and Amstrad lost its reputation in the process.
Quote from: MacDeath on 21:38, 25 March 15
some say it was due to a HDD provider that screwed it up a lot and Amstrad lost its reputation in the process.
The Seagate HDDs?
Quote from: dcdrac on 19:44, 25 March 15
for me the Macs I have provided by work no better than my non mac, computers. I like them both each has their use.
Why did Amstrad lose it's way in the 1990s?
It never lost its way. You can't lose what you don't have.
Amstrad before the CPC was a hardware manufacturer of non original cheap hardware, after the CPC , with the exception of few PCs , they went back to manufacturing non exceptional hardware. Let's face it they were a mediocre company that tried to take advantage of a small market , with limited capital. They were not equipped to lead the computer revolution. Neither was Commodore. In the end home computers were mainly game platforms.
PCs were business tools. Gaming came much later and even today pcs are mainly business tools. Business software is extremely versatile and needs also a very versatile hardware. IBM knew that and they took advantage of it.
In the end Amstrad and Commodore disappeared because they were thinking too small.
Take Apple for example. Steve Jobs is treated like a God but easy to forget he was responsible for bringing Apple down. He almost destroyed his own company. Apple was doing the same failed recipe , lets build a computer which is mainly for home use and make it fun and cool. It did not work because the computer is mainly a business tool. When he went to work for Pixar and then came back he got it. If you really want to make something fun and cool, mainly for games and entertainment then you need a super portable device. We work in the office, but we want to have fun everywhere. The rest is history.
Amstrad would need to have a much bigger focus on their computer sector even dropping other products. In the end they did not push it because they did not want to compete with the big guys. Apple did want to compete with the big guys so they put a lot of resources into inventing new products that would change the rules of the game. When Steve got back he had vision, strong desire and no intention to play by the rules. He rewritten the rule book and thats how you win.
Thats what IBM did with the PCs too. This what the next company that will bring the next computer revolution will do. First was IBM with PCs. Second was Apple with the mobile platforms of tablets and especially smartphones. Third computer revolution ? Who knows. But then the guy who knows will become a billioner and why not a trillioner too.
Quote from: dcdrac on 19:44, 25 March 15
Why did Amstrad lose it's way in the 1990s?
That was imho moving from Z80 to 8086 instead of Z180, Z280, Z380 (and later it would have been the eZ80). And that was customers being stupid and believing advertisements too much. One could call it the commodore conspiracy. :o