Taken from : CPC - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/CPC)
Quote from: cpcwikiThe Amstrad CPC (Colour Personal Computer) series was a series of 8-bit home computers that were manufactured by the British company Amstrad between 1984 (launch of the CPC464: 21st June 1984) and 1993 (?). The CPC, like most contemporary home micros, had an integrated computer-in-a-keyboard design. Also incorporated in the keyboard was the tape recorder or disc drive.
So, next year we're going to be celebrating 30 years in the life of the CPC464! Wow, just saying it makes me shudder... I mean, no f*cking way I'm that old! Not me! I'M NOT GONNA F*CKING DIE, DO YOU HEAR?
-ahem. So anyway, yes, 30 years of CPC awesomeness. So I thought (actually,
SyX did We could start discussing what could be done to celebrate it in style...
One idea I had was that maybe we could produce a compilation of all the fantastic gems that have been released over the past several years, a multi-disk, big-box release... yes, it wouldn't be cheap, but it'd be pretty appropriate as a commemoration of the machine's longevity.
Anyhow, any other ideas? :)
Push'n'Pop has launched, some months ago, a Megademo project for celebrating that.
Push'n'Pop | Amstrad CPC Demoscene | 30 years megademo - Call for Demomakers (http://pushnpop.net/articles-62.html)
But, why waiting 30 years for doing something great to celebrate that? :D
For the 30 years of the 464, I dream about no more Tape use, no more 64K limitation and no more QAOP keymap in games. :P
QAOPS: Goooood!
Tape loading: gooooood!
64kb: ok, not so good.
We could have a kickstarter campaign to produce a run of fpga clones, there are a couple of projects already in progress perhaps one of them could be used.
Hm, not a bad idea, but I have no idea about the costs of it...
That already existed.
http://www.symbos.de/trex.htm (http://www.symbos.de/trex.htm)
The TRex1 is not sold anylonger. Thank's to EU laws against lead on PCBs >:(
Quote from: steve on 15:48, 09 January 13
We could have a kickstarter campaign to produce a run of fpga clones, there are a couple of projects already in progress perhaps one of them could be used.
Is that not a bit ironic? We're celebrating that the 464 hardware we use lasted 30 years by making a clone of it? What messege does that send? "It lasted 30, but we doubt it will last till the end of the year", "We can finally make it obsolete". We should be making things that enhance the 30 year old machine, not replacing it.
Bryce.
Exactly! And this is the reaseon why I never replaced my CPC6128 with any other computer. I still try to do everything on original hardware. And the use of a PC to make software for PC is IMHO a bit perverted. Why not making the programs all on the CPC. I never saw a program on a PC (used for producing CPC stuff) which couldn't be done on the CPC itself (disregarding factors like screen resolution etc.).
Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:36, 09 January 13I never saw a program on a PC (used for producing CPC stuff) which couldn't be done on the CPC itself
I wonder how to assembly 1 Megabyte of Z80 sourcecode in a few seconds (time is short in these days...) on a real CPC?
Quote from: Bryce on 22:22, 09 January 13
We should be making things that enhance the 30 year old machine, not replacing it.
Bryce.
I am thinking in a half drunk state on how about making it more accessible in the modern world?
I am guessing most of us bought an Amstrad to play games on and returned to the machine to re-live some of those games?
Now I am older I don't have the same amount of time to try and complete these games in one sitting, and I am used to being able to save games on a modern console/PC, so what would be cool for me would be to save snapshots like the emulators (and the old Multiface II etc I guess which aren't readily available) but maybe save to a flash device for me to reload almost instantly later. Maybe have buttons so you can assign a game state to a button?
Hopefully Bryce won't shoot me down in flames :)
I guess that would be a nod to the past while looking to the future and maybe opening it up to a wider audience who want to use the original hardware. Anyway, this Jameson Special Reserve is going down well so I am off to refill my glass :D
I think I may join AA tomorrow :laugh:
Quote from: Bryce on 22:22, 09 January 13
Is that not a bit ironic? We're celebrating that the 464 hardware we use lasted 30 years by making a clone of it? What messege does that send? "It lasted 30, but we doubt it will last till the end of the year", "We can finally make it obsolete". We should be making things that enhance the 30 year old machine, not replacing it.
Bryce.
Our machines will not last forever, they will stop working eventually but a new clone could be good for another 30 years.
FPGA clones just get no soul.
If it's for plug it on a PC monitor, keyboard, ... and launching DSK only, better to run an emulator as more tools are available today for improving development.
Also, not all of us have the luxury to own original machines, or the space to have them set up.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:36, 09 January 13
Exactly! And this is the reaseon why I never replaced my CPC6128 with any other computer. I still try to do everything on original hardware. And the use of a PC to make software for PC is IMHO a bit perverted. Why not making the programs all on the CPC. I never saw a program on a PC (used for producing CPC stuff) which couldn't be done on the CPC itself (disregarding factors like screen resolution etc.).
This is the eternal debat about crossdev vs vanilla.To be honnest, i do not care as long the final program runs on CPC.After , it is just a question of time and comfort.When you have to refresh,compress or compile a lot of data, it is usefull to use the power of a PC.Same thing about code write, it is more comfortable to have a modern editor with syntax coloration and i don't speak about debugging...
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:45, 10 January 13
Also, not all of us have the luxury to own original machines, or the space to have them set up.
About this, that would be interesting to have something like a pool of cpc/+ we can sell at correct price instead of Ebay like awfull prices.When summer come, i do second hand markets to find various stuff, i'll be ready to sold the same price i found with additionnal postage if i find something interesting, why not other people.btw , a lot of people own that type of machine taking the dust and would be happy to sell them for a little ammount of money.
Quote from: steve on 03:54, 10 January 13
Our machines will not last forever, they will stop working eventually but a new clone could be good for another 30 years.
Why not? What will break that can't be fixed? I see it more like a classic car. Fix it, replace parts, do what's needed to keep it going. But turn up at a classic car meeting with a replica and you'll soon find out what real fans think of them.
I also never understood the whole FPGA thing anyway. Why spend all that time designing a piece of custom hardware to emulate a system, when you can install an emulator on a mini PC motherboard and have exactly the same thing.
@Beaker: I like your idea. But I think it will be more of a software challenge than a hardware one.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce
I also never understood the whole FPGA thing anyway. Why spend all that time designing a piece of custom hardware to emulate a system, when you can install an emulator on a mini PC motherboard and have exactly the same thing.
Just for the illusion. Don't underestimate that.
Quote from: Bryce on 10:29, 10 January 13
I also never understood the whole FPGA thing anyway. Why spend all that time designing a piece of custom hardware to emulate a system, when you can install an emulator on a mini PC motherboard and have exactly the same thing.
And I thought you like real hardware....
Well, one reason is for sure the real hardware (origninal CPC or FPGA implementation) runs to the ys precise, while an emulator on a PC always has speed changes. So for some demos / games (/maybe even apps) the precision is important. Else it gets screwed up.
Quote from: Prodatron on 23:51, 09 January 13
I wonder how to assembly 1 Megabyte of Z80 sourcecode in a few seconds (time is short in these days...) on a real CPC?
Not in a few seconds for sure. But it can be done. The maximum source I did assemble on the CPC was about 500 KB and I used Maxam II under CP/M Plus and with the HD20 hard disc.
If I would have time I would create a quick assembler, but meanwhile I have time for a cup of tea. And while waiting for the CPC to do it, I more often have good ideas :-) Or do something on the other CPC, sitting next to the one which is assembling ;)
But back to the topic here... 30 years... wow... how much wheel chairs to we need?
Anybody interested in anti aging stuff?
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:11, 10 January 13And while waiting for the CPC to do it, I more often have good ideas :-) Or do something on the other CPC, sitting next to the one which is assembling ;)
Ok, let's introduce CPC server farms for implementing large data processing by using parallel computing technics with CPCs: I am dreaming about assembling my Z80-sources inside the CPC cloud ;D When multitasking is already possible on the Z80, why not multiprocessing, too :P
[attachimg=1]
Now, seriously, let's get back on issue...
Quote from: Bryce on 10:29, 10 January 13
I also never understood the whole FPGA thing anyway. Why spend all that time designing a piece of custom hardware to emulate a system, when you can install an emulator on a mini PC motherboard and have exactly the same thing.
Well, I guess you've already seen the work I've done on my FPGA board, but for me it's simple. I've got something that plugs into any SCART TV so I have a true 50Hz display, it boots instantly, it's silent, it runs at exactly the same clock rate as a real CPC without ever getting interrupted by another process using too much memory, etc. Even on my quad-core 2.5GHz machine, the software emulators can't reliably lock at 50Hz and because my monitor won't run at 50, it's always jerky. I haven't even found a software emulator that's good for video capture, but I can just hook my FPGA board up to a DVD recorder for instance.
To all intents and purposes, my FPGA board is a real CPC, just one that happens to interface better with modern devices. It's got standard joystick ports, it's got tape line-in, but it also has built in all the other peripherals people like to expand their CPC with - it's got 512KB of RAM and 2MB of flash ROM, it's got a PS/2 port for a modern keyboard, but enough GPIO pins to interface a real CPC keyboard if I wanted, it's got a USB socket that exposes a serial port to a modern PC.
I'm close to having support for DSK images on an SD card, and future plans include monitor emulation so that smooth scrolling is possible using an LCD TV and I'm hoping to ultimately have hardware breakpointing as usable as a software emulator but in hardware (so capturing a whole frame and providing cross hair markers like you'd see on a software emulator), direct video/audio capture to SD card, etc. I'm even thinking about adding support in the next prototype board for a 5V level shifted breakout board, because I'd actually quite like the ability to plug in a real floppy drive.
I guess for me, the underlying reason for this project was I wanted to learn VHDL. But, in the process I've learned a lot more about the design of the original CPC hardware and by thinking about these chips were probably designed to optimise gates, I think I'm closer to the original chip design than most of the software emulators. For example, originally I just had a big lookup table to map from hardware colours to RGB, but over Christmas I was thinking about how the hardware was designed originally - there wouldn't have been a mask ROM in the gate array just for this, because it'd have been cheaper just to add an extra bit to each of the palette registers. And sure enough, after a while of staring at the mapping, I came up with an efficient implementation that uses a total of 5 slices for the entire conversion. For those that don't know FPGA, a slice can be thought of as a single 4-input, 1-bit output logic gate, i.e. the smallest logic element on the chip.
Quote from: Gryzor on 13:59, 11 January 13
Now, seriously, let's get back on issue...
Send a big cake to Alan Sugar at Amshold from which Georgia Salpa (our representative) emerges to infer all the pleasure (we can work on the details on how the inferring will take place...) his machine has given us over the years... ;D
Assuming he knows it's the machines 30th Birthday next year, or cares...
Quote from: Prodatron on 02:14, 11 January 13
Ok, let's introduce CPC server farms for implementing large data processing by using parallel computing technics with CPCs: I am dreaming about assembling my Z80-sources inside the CPC cloud ;D When multitasking is already possible on the Z80, why not multiprocessing, too :P
Well, that's actually not a big problem. We got local hard-discs and we got the CPC-Booster which can connect up to 32 (or was it 64?) CPC by using the highspeed RS442 network. That was always one of my plans, to make a real CPC network, but time is soooo limited.
The VN96 already showed us that network apps/games are doable :)
Two ideas to mark the 30th anniversary of the CPC,
1, remake soft871m http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8507_006.jpg (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8507_006.jpg), I would not wear it, but others might :P .
2, produce a printed version of CPCWiki, an encyclopeadia of the CPC. there is so much in the Wiki that I simply do not realise is there, it would be great to simply flick through the pages of the encyclopeadia and see just how much is in there.
The T-Shirt idea is nice, but I'd slightly change the text on it to "I've been an Amstrad computer user for the past 30 years"... ;D
Why not just have a birthday convention?
Probably because users are so widely spread. Which is a good thing. But it means that any location chosen is likely to exclude the majority of users, who would not be able to get there.
steve: Nice idea, but a fair proportion of the wiki is not written to a standard that would really work on paper: we have people conversing within the main text, things that are not very well translated, lots of stubs, etc. This is not meant as a criticism of CPC Wiki and certainly is not specific to it: any attempt to pool content from a wiki for publication is going to face a lot of obstacles if it wants to be worthwhile.
Of course, in the longer term, the idea of a carefully selected, edited, and referenced selection of the best and most important articles would be a really nice idea for a project: the kind of thing that sometimes gets done by single authors but that would of course benefit a lot from having a team or community rather than just one person, with the aim now being presentation and depth rather than just getting information onto the internet in any format.
I think a t-shirt could be good, though! Probably not that exact design, mind you. :P The wireframed Amstrad logo, or maybe the one with the solid background and red stripe, would work well; probably, it should also include the square-ish CPC logo – and maybe also the 464 if anyone would want that, although it might be nicer to keep it general to the family as it has the same birthday, too.
Quote from: ralferoo on 14:04, 11 January 13
Well, I guess you've already seen the work I've done on my FPGA board
Great work!
Btw, will this work on the FPGA Arcade board, which will shortly be available?
Quote from: Briggsy on 11:44, 18 January 13
Btw, will this work on the FPGA Arcade board, which will shortly be available?
It could be made to work in theory, but I don't intend to get an FPGA arcade board because they are pretty expensive, and also somewhat Amiga focused (such as the onboard 68000!). That and they've been "any time soon" for years!
I guess my board is similar but intended for 8-bit emulations, so I have a tape input and SCART output for instance. I reckon also mine will be substantially cheaper to make when the time comes - I've built my current one-off prototype board for less than the cost of the FPGA arcade!
The FPGA Arcade has no 68000 on board - the Minimig does, but that's been around for a few years now.
It's targeted for re-implementation of many old systems, not just the Amiga. It was initially intended for arcade games, hence the name.
The boards are now in production. But yeah, they will be around £200 in the end, and for 8-bit implementations you need far less of a system, smaller FPGA, etc. I'd be interested to read about yours!
There's a few pictures on my blog, albeit sporadically: CPC FPGA - Recreation of an Amstrad CPC on an FPGA (http://cpcfpga.com/)
Certainly, I'm at least 2 prototypes away from having something I'd consider ready for sale, but I can't imagine selling them for more than £100 when they're done, and possibly quite a bit cheaper than that if I knew I could sell a lot - one of the biggest expenses at the moment is making the PCBs, but obviously if you're making hundreds the cost per board comes down a lot. Obviously, if I was making that many, I couldn't do them by hand so I'd have to pay extra to get the boards populated...
But I'll certainly keep people on here informed of my progress... :)
Wow, nearly as old as me, when I celebrate my 30th next year I'll be sure to celebrate it along with my cpc 464 have had one for as long as I can remember!
@Steve, the t-shirt or a hoodie is a good idea, but if we're to do it it should be something unique, not something anyone and everyone could do, like take the vector logo and go to a print shop. Maybe a graphician in here could make something cool?
Also, the encyclopaedia would be an awesome idea. Yes, it would need a lot of work, but, db6128, every single book needs editing. Here we have lots of content already, so editing shouldn't be such a bad problem. I think the major difficulty would be organising the thing - what to include and in what order. But still, a great idea...
@lynwen, it won't be complete without the 80s hair and accessories. Party like it's '84! :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:03, 25 January 13@Steve, the t-shirt or a hoodie is a good idea[...] Maybe a graphician in here could make something cool?
Definitely a good idea, and I'm sure someone here could!
QuoteAlso, the encyclopaedia would be an awesome idea. Yes, it would need a lot of work, but, db6128, every single book needs editing. Here we have lots of content already, so editing shouldn't be such a bad problem. I think the major difficulty would be organising the thing - what to include and in what order. But still, a great idea...
I wasn't meaning anything bad against this wiki, just nothing things I've perceived that affect the wiki format in general. And I agree that none of these are insurmountable – far from it! If the effort can be found, I'd be firmly in favour of the idea. I'd like to offer whatever services I could, but things are going to get very busy next month, so I wouldn't want commit to anything in case I have too little time.
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:03, 25 January 13
@lynwen, it won't be complete without the 80s hair and accessories. Party like it's '84! :D
There is a good education movie about that. It's called 'Class of 1984'. Look it up ;)
What I like is the list:
- *snip*
- xxxxx (part)
- xxxxx (part)
- xxxxx (part)
- ProjectArgon (best part)
Cool that they already know, who is going to code the best part :-D
??? Link?
Push'n'Pop | Amstrad CPC Demoscene | 30 years megademo - Call for Demomakers (http://pushnpop.net/articles-62.html)
@db6128, I know you didn't mean anything bad :)
A collaboartive project like this does have its inherent drawbacks, and this here is one of them. I was just saying that yes, this issue notwithstanding, one could still pull it off!
A chain is as strong as its weakest part.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:20, 01 February 13
A chain is as strong as its weakest part.
And here's a link to the video discussing that phrase for absolutely no reason at all. Enjoy ;D
A Chain Is Only As Strong As Its Weakest Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqLdomgkgpA#)
Stop it, half asleep already.
Well Jeramiah already gets it wrong on the first slide, so so-much for that:
"This is a reference to human beings" - No it's not! That phrase can be used in reference to anything which has multiple parts, such as the design of a computer, bridge, car and even non-physical things such as a process, etc, etc....
Now I'm boring myself :D
Bryce.
The CPC series is almost exactly one year older than me... and the 664 was released the month I was born!
I'll have to ask my parents exactly when it was they bought the 6128, but I can't ever remember it ever not being around, and I guess it was some time before 1987 because I know for a fact that I inserted most of a half chewed rusk biscuit into the floppy drive, and I could only have been at most two or so at the time! (Don't worry my Dad cleaned it - I'm still using it now).
So I'd say the CPC was pretty formative for me - I learned to program on it and it sparked in me the interest of a life time.
I don't know what to do to celebrate it's 30 years - but I'd definitely like to celebrate it!
I'd say the CPC was formative to some extend for most of us here, but not many grew up from moment zero with them!
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:49, 12 February 13
I'd say the CPC was formative to some extend for most of us here, but not many grew up from moment zero with them!
Are you saying most people on here are really old and wrinkly ;)
Depends how quick you are 8)
Thank you for staying on topic. Pretty lame to destroy such a good thread...
Cpc. 464 cake! I can't myself but know someone who makes cakes!!!
Can we do a poll or something to find out if there was an event who would go and which country would be best?
What month are we celebrating in?
People dont seem to think a 30th birthday party would be very well attended... not sure why? A few guests, perhaps an odd AA writer, a game coder or two and somebody like Roland Perry or Cliff Lawson and I'm sure we could do a hundred or so people. Personally I'd suggest Brentwood as the perfect place. The Amstrad HQ was turned into a cheapish Hotel, and I would imagine a conference room could be rented fairly cheaply. Plus I think you can even book Alan Sugars office on the 10th floor as a hotel bedroom... some of the richer German or French CPC'ers would like that surely :P
Can you make a better cake than this one, a sort of cake+ :D
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8512_001.jpg) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8512_001.jpg)
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8512_001.jpg (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8512_001.jpg)
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8512_001.jpg) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8512_001.jpg)
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8512_001.jpg) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Amstrad_Computer_User8512_001.jpg)
Thats the kind I was thinking of, I couldn't myself would have to pay someone to do it :laugh:
We ought to organise an event and invite Lord Sugar