Ok, so we all know and appreciate what a boon, in terms of value for money, the monitor that came bundled with the CPCs was.
But a comment someone made on a Greek forum made me wonder: what if? Of course when they were designing the machine the included monitor was part of their philosophy, of the Amstrad way, but the machine itself came out so good in the end that maybe, just maybe, if they offered the unit alone, maybe as an option, it could have sold even better?
Of course the CPC was also sold as a more serious machine - no way you could see mode 2 through a TV modulator. Then again, along game SCART...
This makes me think that when the CPC PLUS range was released with their monitors, maybe they should of created it with a VGA connector.
I think that the all-in-one idea was a good call. I'm not sure it would of done very well without against the C64 and Spectrum.
I remember that CPC as you said was the "pro" 8 bit machine.
Mode 2 was perfect for video clubs, OPAP (lotto) stores ;D and many small business.
The monitor was the key to enter in that market but I think if it had an rf or a composite output with the psu onboard it would sell like ZX.
Many people back then had one tv and it would be cheeper.
In conclusion, this way maybe would make the small quantity of people to avoid as a pro machine but it would be in more houses right now.
PS (offtopic): Amstrad should also advertise more CPM software. (offtopic)
Most of the CP/M software is free. The problem is that CPC folks usually don't know about it. So a lot of real pearls stay unknown. :(
Indeed, it's as if CP/M was stuck on it as an aftertought...
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:05, 19 March 15
Indeed, it's as if CP/M was stuck on it as an aftertought...
Yes. I guess it was because CP/M didn't support a common interface for sound or graphics. Of course with CP/M Plus there was GSX, but still that was only like MODE, PEN and DRAW commands.
Later with Z3Plus and ZCPR there were terminal descriptors and a lot of Unix like stuff. But it didn't really make it to an broader audience in Europe. However in USA it became the new CP/M replacement.[nb]Ok, not really replacement, the BIOS was still the old one. But BDOS and CCP got replaced.[/nb]
should compare with PCW which came with default B&W monitor... was good for biznesses but it quite killed it as a home computer.
To me Amstrad missed the CPC/PCW fusion at some point.
a CPCW in colours, with 256k RAM , AY, joy port and video modes could have been so great.
Yeah, but the PCW screen was of a special resolution, wasn't it? 720x256 or am I wrong? No TV of the time could output that (and still be clear enough to read).
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:44, 19 March 15
To me Amstrad missed the CPC/PCW fusion at some point.
The fusion was called ANT (Arnold number two), the PcW still got some features like roller ram of that idea. Sadly it was abandoned at early stage.
However, RAM and so on was really expensive back the day.
Quote from: TFM on 19:16, 19 March 15
The fusion was called ANT (Arnold number two), the PcW still got some features like roller ram of that idea. Sadly it was abandoned at early stage.
However, RAM and so on was really expensive back the day.
I read here in the wiki Richard Clayton have a prototype of the ANT(motherboard). But the cpc wiki not specify more, no pictures or specificatión of the protoype and if it work.
Anyone knows anything about it?.
The ANT is in the attic close to the old parrot. :laugh:
jaja, so the parrot is the author of the article in cpc wiki. :D
No, the parrot can be seen in CPC Adventure... one of my really very much liked awesome games...
http://cpc.devilmarkus.de/game.php?id=-C-&title=cpcadventure (http://cpc.devilmarkus.de/game.php?id=-C-&title=cpcadventure)
http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1 (http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1)
What would the advantage have been to selling it without the monitor? They would have had to bundle an MP2 with it which gave really terrible results - Probably a choice Alan would never have accepted. TVs with SCART were almost non-existant at the time. The CPC / MP2 bundle wouldn't have been much cheaper than the monitor solution and would have implications on their production planning etc.
VGA on a Plus would have been massively expensive and a compatibility nightmare. VGA was only released in 1987, so it was cutting edge at the time the Plus was being developed. CGA was standard at the time and couldn't display the range of colours that the Plus could.
Bryce.
Would the MP2 cost be really comparable to a tube monitor? I doubt it... And yes picture quality would be awful, that's what I said, but still there were people willing to go that way.
Also, was SCART so non-existant back then? I remember my family having a Luxor TV, in no way high-end and bought a few years earlier that had one. Mid- to late eighties, you could find SCART CPC adaptors everywhere here in Greece.
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:30, 20 March 15
Would the MP2 cost be really comparable to a tube monitor? I doubt it... And yes picture quality would be awful, that's what I said, but still there were people willing to go that way.
Also, was SCART so non-existant back then? I remember my family having a Luxor TV, in no way high-end and bought a few years earlier that had one. Mid- to late eighties, you could find SCART CPC adaptors everywhere here in Greece.
No, but the price of the monitor would go up because of less demand/unknown required quantities and the cost of this risk would be spread across all components, so the CPC with monitor would also go up in price.
SCART was actually released way back in 1977, but introduction depended heavily on the country. In some areas it came very early (France was first - where it was developed), but UK devices were very late to the game (probably due to their inherent distrust of French things :D). So it probably wasn't a serious option for Amstrad at the time.
Bryce.
Yeah my family's TV back then (bought in mid 80's) didn't have SCART and it wasn't til about 1994 that we got a newer TV that did.
The main reason they chose the CPC was because of the monitor (ok they picked the green screen one but it did mean I could at least play it while they were watching TV) and the built in tape deck and I got the modulator through a friend at school a couple years later and then the colour monitor a lil later on after that.
France mandated that all TV connected devices use SCART/Peritel, ever wonder why the French N64 was so valuable these days - its the only version with native RGB out.
Given the amount of TVs that Orion where producing for Amstrad at the time as well, they had the economies of scale to get the price on each unit down.
Read somewhere that because the 464 was a 'whole solution' and didn't include an RF modulator it was exempt from EMI testing ? Hence the total lack of shielding, can remember every time I turned on my 464 the TV would go a bit apeshit.
The French did damn right! :P
Quote from: The Last Bandit on 16:33, 20 March 15
Read somewhere that because the 464 was a 'whole solution' and didn't include an RF modulator it was exempt from EMI testing ? Hence the total lack of shielding, can remember every time I turned on my 464 the TV would go a bit apeshit.
Not having an RF modulator doesn't exempt you from EMI testing. The German CPCs all had shielding despite no RF modulator. The level of required shielding was different in different coutries back then. It was only later that it was standardised across Europe.
Bryce.
And EU standard means just to take the worst. Microwaves are a terribly well example.
Actually the EMI standards aren't all that bad and the first EU standard was heavily based on the German standard. What's wrong with Microwave EMI shielding? The entire case is usually metal.
Bryce.
The actual EU allows more than 100x more radiation than the old DIN norm. I stick with DIN for safety.
Other example: These light saver neon lamps... you got any idea what they emit? That's genocide.
Quote from: TFM on 00:37, 21 March 15
The actual EU allows more than 100x more radiation than the old DIN norm. I stick with DIN for safety.
Other example: These light saver neon lamps... you got any idea what they emit? That's genocide.
And it's still not dangerous. But don't worry, I never go anywhere without my Tinfoil Hat :D
Yes neon lamps radiate, but then again, so do rocks.
Bryce.
Gesendet von meinem Motorola DynaTEC 8000X mit Tapatalk 2.
Quote from: TFM on 17:18, 19 March 15
Yes. I guess it was because CP/M didn't support a common interface for sound or graphics. Of course with CP/M Plus there was GSX, but still that was only like MODE, PEN and DRAW commands.
Page 98 onwards of the Hisoft Pascal 80 Manual is a good place to check out anything relating to GSX programming. It's actually very extensive & complicated, I wish it was MODE, PEN & DRAW. ???
Quote from: The Last Bandit on 16:33, 20 March 15
Read somewhere that because the 464 was a 'whole solution' and didn't include an RF modulator it was exempt from EMI testing ? Hence the total lack of shielding, can remember every time I turned on my 464 the TV would go a bit apeshit.
The design document for the CPC Plus specifically states that the Plus machines had to meet the new EEC standards for 1992.
If you want interference, try a Spectrum. You can pick up the audio on FM, and it destroys any nearby AM radio signal.
I also wonder if having to meet new standards for 1992 also motivated Amstrad to produce the Plus and remove the Spectrum from sale. May have also been a motivation for the CPC Plus.
I also recall the specifications caused headaches for the successors to MGT who were still trying to sell the Sam Coupe.
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 12:32, 21 March 15
If you want interference, try a Spectrum. You can pick up the audio on FM, and it destroys any nearby AM radio signal.
The Spectrum is a disaster (I wonder if the name "Spectrum" referred to the "Radio Spectrum" that it covered :D).
The problem is with the way they convert the 9VAC up to 12V DC. The coil in the circuit is a very good transmitter. On the positive side, it's a handy way of testing the computer. If you can't here the coil whining, then the 12V rail is missing and you need to swap the two transistors.
Bryce.
In the 80s, the bundled monitor was great - houses usually only had one TV that accepted RF, the monitor gave a better signal, and meant the computer didn't have to live by the TV, and not be accessible at times when anyone else wanted to use the TV.
However the Pluses should have come with a SCART adapter cable, and the monitors sold separately. OTOH maybe the monitor only cost Amstrad a few quid by then. The Plus needed to be cheaper (amongst other things).
A lot of people upgrading from CPCs to Amigas bought adapter cables to use the old CPC monitor with the Amiga.
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 22:46, 21 March 15
A lot of people upgrading from CPCs to Amigas bought adapter cables to use the old CPC monitor with the Amiga.
I went from CPC 464 to Amiga 1200 and I never heard of such cables. :o
Quote from: Carnivac on 00:11, 22 March 15
I went from CPC 464 to Amiga 1200 and I never heard of such cables. :o
I made one back in the days just for fun. I had a 1084.
When I plugged it I saw the difference between the two monitors.
C= 1084 had "black" with great colors and ctm was really awful after that.
Quote from: Carnivac on 00:11, 22 March 15
I went from CPC 464 to Amiga 1200 and I never heard of such cables. :o
It was not just Amigas and STs either.... I got an adaptor cable to use my CTM 640 on my Sega Megadrive :)
Craig
Quote from: Carnivac on 00:11, 22 March 15
I went from CPC 464 to Amiga 1200 and I never heard of such cables. :o
They were offered for sale by WAVE who used to take out full page adverts in Amstrad Action.
Also the technical letters page of both New Computer Express and AA frequently featured people asking how to connect a CTM to various machines.
Personally I had a new Phillips monitor with my Amiga 1200. Didn't really want my crusty old CTM with its poor geometry and no speakers stinking up my new A1200!
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 02:35, 22 March 15
They were offered for sale by WAVE who used to take out full page adverts in Amstrad Action.
Also the technical letters page of both New Computer Express and AA frequently featured people asking how to connect a CTM to various machines.
Can't say I noticed them. I never paid much attention to techy stuff in them whether it was articles or adverts. I was all about the games.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 00:17, 22 March 15
It was not just Amigas and STs either.... I got an adaptor cable to use my CTM 640 on my Sega Megadrive :)
Craig
I got a cable for my Plus monitor for my brothers megadrive back int' daay