Amstrad CPCnext: Would you buy one?

[cwpab]

In case you've been living under a rock, over the last 6 years, a privileged group of 10K Spectrum fans (0,2% of the 5M Spectrums sold) has been creating and playing ugly multi-colored games in a weird, cheating machine called ZXnext.

Just kidding! I love the ZX Spectrum. I just don't know how to feel about the Next. Games look ugly to me, it's like they don't know what to do with all those colors. 

I feel like it's kind of cheating, I can't consider it a Spectrum. But I understand people may like to create a backwards compatible machine able to play Wolfenstein 3D in one of the 3.5, 7, 14 and 28mhz selectable modes with the 256 colors. According to Mobygames, there are 40 games released for it.

What do you think about it? Would you buy a potential CPCnext?

[dodogildo]

We already have the Plus which is far from being exploited enough. Do we really need a Next?

[andycadley]

Yeah, I think one of the problems with the ZX Next, in my opinion at least, is that they added so much to it that it's hard to see who it's really aimed at. It's full of Amiga like features but people who are interested in ZX games don't really want Amiga games.

I think I'd be more interested in FPGA technology being used to recreate a Plus machine that could be plugged into modern displays, with some expansion possibilities as the ZX Next has.

[eto]

 I like doing stuff with the CPC not despite its limitations but because of them. If a CPCnext removes the limitations, the fascination is gone and - except for a pseudo brand loyalty - there is no reason to stick to the CPCnext. There is already a system that is better and/or has better software support than even a CPCnext can provide. 

[Neurox66]

A modern CPC model superior to the 6128 Plus would be nice.  
With VGA and HDMI ports and a graphics mode that would go beyond the limitations of earlier CPC models; e.g. 640×480 in 256 colors. 
The new CPC will have included all that external hardware that is there for regular CPCs (WiFi,Ethernet,MP3,Mouse,Speech...) and also the ability to use CP/M without limitation of HardDisk or SD space. 
And of course compatible with earlier models as far as possible. 

[Gryzor]

I'd like one, but much more limited than the Spectrum Next. "Just"  give me a machine where I can select among all models, add modern connectivity and some of the community add ons built in. 

[ZorrO]

I would prefer a new version of Gate Array for old CPC, which gives it capabilities of PLUS models, or with Z80 replacement by R800 like in MSX TyrboR, which executes code in fewer clocks even without frequency overclocking. Thats seems like a lot of joy.

As for NEXT, I am afraid the keybord will be similar for more popular 464, which I have never liked of this model or its colorful keyboard with a strange place for arrows keys. I will not buy computer for sentimental reason if it will be ugly.

[Prodatron]

I got my ZX Spectrum Next some weeks ago and TBH I really like this machine! Somehow it has everything you can dream about, (nearly) fully compatibility to the original machines as well as very usefull and powerful expansions and add-ons.
Unlike the CPC the Spectrum already got some power-ups in the past, so the Spectrum scene is somehow already used to it (Sam Coupe already end of the 80ies, Pentagon and many others in the 90ies, ZXUno in the 2010er, ZX Vegas, finally TBBlue and Next). Yes, there is the CPC+, but it mainly only added sprites.

IMHO compared to the Spectrum or the MSX scene the CPC scene appears to be more conservative ("WTF, it uses more than 64K? No, that's not a CPC anymore!").

I would like to have a CPC Next with at least...
- all CPC Plus features
- 1MB Ram or more
- enough Rom
- Z80 with 4/8/16/32MHz
- Mass storage (I would prefer Usifac/Albireo or SF2 compatibility)
- Mouse, RTC, Wifi
Beside the faster Z80 all this is already there today, so such a CPC Next should have it for sure.

Would be cool to have some new graphic and music capabilities as well. Even all this is already available (PlayCity, V9990/Graphics9000, OPL4/MoonSound, Willy), but here I think it's more difficult to select what really makes most sense, and will it turn it into a different machine.

Anyway I will enjoy my Spectrum Next now, I never thought that a Z80 could handle 80KB Vram without problems

@ZorrO, IMHO they made a good job with the Spectrum Next keyboard, e.g. the Cursor keys are placed at the best position. Of course a CPC Next should not have the strange placement of the 464.

[reidrac]

I have a FPGA solution already that can do the CPC reasonably well (at a good price), and I don't really use it that much TBH.

So if the "next" part of it implies some sort of evolution, I don't think I'll like it because, what for? We have PCs already, isn't it?

That said, I see the Next and things like that in the same market as the fantasy consoles. They are neat and fun, but is not a speccy/CPC/whatever. It is a new thing!

[GUNHED]

Well, there were quite a few 'CPCng' projects, but not one them them was fully fledged and is still available.

Yes, a CPCnext would awesome! Of course, why not!

However, for a real FutureOS power machine I would have the following setup in mind:
(actually that's quite similar to what was posted before...)

- (Very) well compatibility to CPC6128 and if possible 6128plus (or at least parts of it)

- 4 MB of RAM
- RAM banking fully compatible to CPC6128; and maybe an enhanced mode to allow to select independant 16 KB blocks for 0, 4000, 8000 and C000

- A minimum of 512 KB Flash-ROM (better 1 MB or more for future expansions, games etc)

- Compatibility to the M4 expansion, or at least its SD card mass storage part

- Turbo mode (as quick as it's doable)

- Mouse compatible to SF2

- RTC (compatible to one of the existing solutions)


In general I would love to see that existing expansions are supported in the new CPCnext design.

In case somebody will develop a CPCnext I would gladly like to support funding the project.

[BSC]

That said, I see the Next and things like that in the same market as the fantasy consoles. They are neat and fun, but is not a speccy/CPC/whatever. It is a new thing!

I strongly dislike those fantasy consoles. Everyone and his dog could create one, I don't get the buzz for them. 

[dodogildo]

Instead of a Next I'd rather have a modern replica board for CPC Plus similar to Evolution 64,C64 Reloaded, or Ultimate 64 with modern connection ports added of course.

[Anthony Flack]

I knew Joseph White before he made the PICO-8 when we were both NZers living in Tokyo, and everything about it is the most Joseph thing. It perfectly encapsulates all the game design ideals and philosophies he has had since forever. His own personal development tools were similar. If you've ever tried PICO-8, it you'll know it's great fun. If you ever knew Joseph you'd know it's so totally Joseph. Everything about it is designed to encourage you to finish and share your ideas quickly. The limitations are intended to keep things light and stop you from digging yourself too deep a hole.

Overclocking the z80 would benefit some games for sure, but my (limited) understanding is that this task is made hopeless by the way the CPU integrates with the Gate Array on the CPC. And besides that, the CPC already has its Next with the Plus machines which still need WAY more games.

But yeah, a new 6128 Plus board with a bit more memory and modern ports would be nice.

[XeNoMoRPH]

Currently, the closest thing to an Amstrad Next would be a CPC equipped with a lot of RAM, a sound card [ playcity, OPL4, or OPL3LPT, and the V9990 accelerator, running under SymBOS with the Quiqs environment system you can make good and wonderful games.

On the other hand we have the CPC X64 project from @TotO  which is a super CPC with many built-in expansions, I don't know how the project will be currently.

https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/cpc-x64/

[Cwiiis]

Feels like this is the general consensus, but I'll add my voice anyway - I'm not interested in a Next like the Spectrum Next. But I'd love an FPGA-based, upgraded Plus machine. My dream spec would be something like

• 6128 Plus base spec with cartridge port (but no disk/tape)
• 1MB Plus-compatible RAM (2 or 4 if it wouldn't raise costs considerably, but 1 is enough)
• 1MB configurable ROM, including low ROM
• Gotek disk emulation
• Tape emulation via TZXDuino-alike
• M4 mass storage, wifi and cartridge emulation
• PlayCity support with pre-mixed output
• True USB HID mouse support, switchable between SF3 and AMX mouse protocols
• USB gamepad support
• Custom Plus-layout keyboard with Cherry MX switches
• Buffered HDMI output with scan emulation for those tricky games/demos
• Centronics printer, expansion and disk ports with built-in A/B disk switch
• Optional: Configurable via web interface
• Optional: Debuggable via web interface
• Optional: Snapshot support via web interface

[cwpab]

I'm not a superfan of fantasy consoles, but I kind of prefer them to "next" machines because they don't pretend to be 8 bit computers released in the 16 bit era with totally unrealistic specs that were either impossible in 1990 or would have caused an extremely high price.

I mean, let's look at the ZX Spectrum Next specs and see how many of them would have been possible in the 4th gen era:

• Processor: Z80 on FPGA SLX16, Normal and Turbo modes 7MHz, 14Mhz & 28MHz
• Memory: 2MB RAM
• Video: Hardware sprites, 256 colours mode, Timex 8×1 mode etc.
• Video Output: RGB, VGA, HDMI
• Storage: SD Card slot, with DivMMC-compatible protocol
• Audio: 3x AY-3-8912 audio chips with stereo output
• Joystick: 2x DB9 compatible with Cursor, Kempston and Interface 2 protocols (selectable)
• PS/2 port: Mouse with Kempston mode emulation and an external keyboard
• Special: Multiface functionality for memory access, savegames, cheats etc.
• Tape support: Mic and Ear ports for tape loading and saving
• Expansion: Original external bus expansion port and accelerator expansion port
• Network: ESP8266 WiFi module
• Extras: Real Time Clock

Without looking too much, the SD card and 2MB of RAM would be impossible and the CPU mode switching and multiple audio chips would have probably been too expensive.

It kind of feels like cheating, I would take these machines more seriously if they were designed realistically for the 16 bit experience they offer, simulating an actual machine released at the time.

By the way, it looks like the C64 is about to receive an almost-next-successor with the Commander X16, which would NOT be compatible with the C64 but it would use 6502 processors (C64's 6510 is an advanced version of it) just like the ZX Next uses Z80 based ones.

[abalore]

I love the CPC and the CPC games, so why have a thing that is not a CPC? To play better quality games I have a PC and a PS5.

[GUNHED]

The idea of a CPCnext is just awesome! It's the logical next step in evolution. And it can have all the little and great improvements we wish for (and didn't get back the day, because of different reasons).

Maybe someone is scared by such a computer - being compatible and strongly extended. Well, that's ok, but let the other users please keep their dreams. 

In an world with limited resources such a CPCnext could be a real game changer.

However, especially it's a dream of some of us since a very long time

Let this dream come true!

[SkulleateR]

Why not just take the AgonLight2 for this ?

https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/AgonLight2/open-source-hardware

It´s fast, it´s cheap and since it's using an ez80 a good programmer could adapt the CPC OS so it may even be backwards compatible (well, sort off), I began to design a nice case for it some time ago and adding a keyboard should be doable as well (in the same case of course) ...

[Anthony Flack]

I would like to see more CPC games updated for the Plus, but right now I would be happy just to be able to get a flash cart for it.

[Prodatron]

Why not just take the AgonLight2 for this ?

It can't do classic memory banking. It won't be able to emulate the ROM or RAM switching of the CPC.
You can only switch between whole 64K ram banks when running in Z80 mode.
For more flexible RAM handling you have to work in the 24bit eZ80 mode, and here everything is a little bit different compared to the normal Z80.

[||C|-|E||]

I am one of those that does not really see the point in the Spectrum Next, the C64 Super CPU, etc. The beauty of the old machines, for me, is that they have certain limitations that every user has to accept.

That said, and in line with several comments above, I would not mind a "modern" Amstrad with the following:

-          512KB of RAM or even more (why not, memory extensions were available back in the days)
-          Plus capabilities, including cartridge port.
-          Turbo mode, with a Z80 that can run at 4 or 8 Mhz (many old games would benefit from the improved frame rate)
-          Native SD Card/USB reader (plus the usual floppy drive). With three/four of these you could have in practice "hard drives" and two floppy drives.
-          Upgradeable ROMs
-          Basic ethernet connectivity for the upgrades
-          Modern video output (digital and analogic)
-          External keyboard and mouse support

All the above is already a lot, but I think I would still consider it an Amstrad. Actually, and awesome one .

[Prodatron]

There are always these three types of demands:

1.) only the original CPC and not more; 128K might already be evil; but, please, old games should be selected and started in a very comfortable and fast way

2.) original CPC with all kind of "legal" expansions, which were already kind of available in the 80ies and still have modern versions (mainly RAM/ROM, mass storage, mouse, network interface and some more)

3.) enhanced CPC with faster CPU and really new features, especially graphic and sound, which didn't exist before, and of course all you have with [2]

For [1] you can use an old CPC + Gotek, M4Board, Usifac II; No need for developing a new machine.
For [2] you can use an old CPC + SF2, SF3, RSF3, Albireo, Ulifac, M4Board, Multiplay, Gemini etc.; when developing a new machines with such features it should have a HDMI output, too, for sure.
For [3] you could already use [2] + V9990, OPLx, MP3MSX etc.; Or you design something new like the Spectrum Next

If I got it correctly people in this thread like these types...

1: eto, abalore
1-2: dodogildo, cwpab
2: Gryzor, Anthony Flack, Cwiiis, ||C|-|E||
2-3: ZorrO, Prodatron
3: Neurox66, Gunhed, XeNoMoRPH

Please correct me, if I am wrong

My personal experience is, that having a new small and complete machine which already includes the most important expansions and an optionally faster CPU and is still expandable, makes much fun. Somehow the OCM is still my favourite MSX computer and now the Next will be my favourite Spectrum computer. Having a new compact CPC machine with the features of [2] or [3] would be cool and would follow the way, which the MSX and Spectrum guys already went.

[HAL6128]

I tend to the 3. but more like an Ultimate 64 principle. A fully CPC compatible design with modern connection (HDMI, network , USB e.g.) and an original expansion port to connect all the board you like today.

[BSC]

Everything about it is designed to encourage you to finish and share your ideas quickly.

Your comment made me curious so I took a not-so-deep dive into fantasy consoles and must admit that it makes perfect sense to have them as rapid prototyping/creation tools for games. I even feel intrigued to give one of them a go for exactly that. So far, I only encountered them as a demo platform and it always felt somewhat fake to me, a bit like cheating even. Thanks for the slight (unintentional) nudge towards some kind of reconciliation with them.