Ideas about how to make developers keep their motivation?

[mr_lou]

In a recent thread we've been discussing creative ways to avoid / reduce piracy on the CPC.
Specifically the scenario where a developer creates a "pay what you want" digital download version of this game, while at the same time also is offering a "physical collector's edition" cartridge version of the game.
In this scenario it is in the developer's interest to prevent people creating their own physical cartridge, because it will reduce or even completely stop sales of the physical edition the developer worked hard to create.

But what it's all really about, is helping the developers keep their motivation, in any way we can.
Piracy is a motivation-killer - especially after having put so much time and effort into making a physical edition of the game, so it'll be good to find ways to reduce piracy. Some nice suggestions can be found in that thread.
Money donations is logically a booster for most people, since it shows appreciation. And seeing an overall interest in one's project is also a booster, so don't be shy with those € 1 EUR payments on itch.io.
I imagine having handy assets available to make life easier is also good, so musicians should go ahead and put their tracks on IGM for CPC devs to find them.
 
It could be interesting to hear from developers in their own words, what would help them keep their motivation to create games for the CPC? What would boost your motivation to make more CPC games?

[arnoldemu]

It could be interesting to hear from developers in their own words, what would help them keep their motivation to create games for the CPC? What would boost your motivation to make more CPC games?

I find that writing any game there are fun bits to do but there is also lots of time consuming and boring bits to do. 

The fun bits feel easy, they go quickly, or feel like they do. The boring bits seem to slow time down and feel like they take ages but they are necessary to make a game that is finished and released.

For me I just push through those boring bits and look forward to the next fun bit. I find the motivation just naturally comes and goes and when it comes I try and do as much as I can. I find that my motivation is higher when I am working on a type of game which I have an interest in, maybe a genre I've always wanted to write, or perhaps something which is a technical challenge.

The bits that are not so fun are bug fixing (especially ones that take time to track down), optimising over and over, squeezing the code to get just another byte, making up the final disks, testing on hardware, testing on a variety of devices (m4, etc)

I also choose not to give any information or progress about what I am working on because my time is limited and I don't work on things regularly. I have bursts of work and then nothing for a bit.

Personally I'd feel that if I did mention it, I'd then feel an obligation to get it done by a particular time, or to put people's ideas into it (which is good but can also be feature creep and prolong development), I also feel if people were giving me money during development again that is an obligation to do something, also  if something is not released within a specific time frame it doesn't look good on me.

I am however motivated by how a released game is appreciated (or not in the case of Mayhem ), through reviews, posting about it on forums, perhaps money or coffee in a itch like pay what you want model. I feel it would not add up to be enough to work full time and I never expect it to but it's that appreciation. That would motivate me more to consider the next game but not during development as I said before.
 
So for me this is what DOES help:
* Having good tools that allow me to automate some of the boring bits (I have my own tools but there are many good tools out there)
* Having good emulation and tools enabling me to locate the cause of the bugs quickly (many emulators qualify here)
* being able to iterate on the game quickly when I am motivated.
* Knowing there are a group of people who have the skills I don't (graphics, music and fx, design, testing, cat art, making physical hardware) and being able to reach out and team up when the time is right and ask for their help. I choose to do this at different times in development when I know how much memory budget and cpu budget I have for each and so I can give them an idea but also try not to restrict creativity.
* Knowing there are other people out there who have knowledge of coding something I haven't done (e.g. some types of game ai) and being able to learn from them.

I think what is also important to note is there are other tools like AGD which take away all the work of coding up a game engine and allow everyone to write a game and focus on the gameplay and game mechanics.

[dthrone]

I'd reiterate what @arnoldemu says about 'boring bits'.  You have to go in accepting this inevibility and be psychologically prepared for it

I never know why people give estimated release dates, it's just asking for trouble and puts you under pressure   I'm not a big fan of previews and the associated hype train either but that's a different question...

I'm mainly motivated by the creative and technical challenge.  Having the awesome tools out there like emulators and graphics programs make the boring bits tolerable.  I'm not motivated by money and since it's a hobby I don't expect it.  Nice words on a forum or in a magazine review definitely spur me on

[mr_lou]

I recognise a few things you both mention:
If I hadn't come up with ways to skip the boring parts of music creation, I definitely wouldn't create the amount of tracks I do - for the number of platforms I target.
So yes, having shortcuts helps a lot with the motivation.
I also recognise that money means far less than positive feedback and appreciation. This is closely related to another aspect that matters to me that hasn't been mentioned yet: That the community is nice and friendly. As soon as too many jerks throw negativity in my face, I personally lose all motivation for a period of time.

So it's actually all about "what can we expect with a high probability"?

• A lot of helpful shortcuts and tools, or hard boring work from scratch?
• A decent amount of sales, or someone pirates my game?
• Helpful friendly positive attitudes online, or general negative attitudes?
• Lots of available assets to search and choose from, or tedious time-consuming work finding a few assets without choice?
• A chance of earning some pocket money, or earning nothing at all?

It's our expectations that'll set the level of motivation, I think.
Any expectation that isn't met, but rather turns out to be a disappointment, will affect the level of motivation for the next project.
For example: "I expect to be able to sell a decent amount of physical editions".
Or "I expect people to appreciate the effort I put into this for the CPC community".

One could say of course, that whoever can create a project with absolutely no expectations whatsoever, can't fail. 

[eto]

As soon as too many jerks throw negativity in my face, I personally lose all motivation for a period of time.

Honestly I can't remember that anyone who is active in the community, who develops software, hardware, makes music, graphics, actively helps others or even has a Youtube channel with community related material will be a jerk and throw in negativity. Sure, there can be misunderstandings or sometimes people get caught off on the wrong foot, and there might even be animosities - but real negativity almost always comes from people who's primary (only?) "contribution" to the community is demanding and complaining. 

And those jerks really should not matter. They are a side effect of every even slighlty popular community and we have to live with them - but they are not THE community. They are not important and should be treated as such. They are not worth the emotions we tend to develop when they share their "feedback". 

[mr_lou]

@eto That's a discussion for a different thread, if anyone is interested in exploring that topic. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about what people think constitutes as negative behavior. Or what each of us think we should and shouldn't be bothered by. That's not what this thread is about.

But I can tell you that personality type models usually deal with 16 or 32 personality types. And the most important thing to understand about personality types, is that nothing is wrong with any of them. They merely differ from each other, and it is very rare for any of them to understand any of the other. Add to that psychological projection, which rules far more than most of us realise. Therefor it is the most common flaw of all of us to conclude that someone else is being a jerk, to which most people feel a need to respond as we feel (according to our own personality type) he deserves - and that response is in turn perceived by other personality types as if we are in fact now the jerk.

Different things affect each personality type differently. A classic flaw is for one type to say: "That shouldn't bother you", and the other to respond with: "Well, that other thing shouldn't bother you!". And both will have fine arguments as to why it bothers each of them - which none of the other will understand - because we're simply affected by different things.

Some will be bothered by negative attitudes from fellow community members. Some by pirates stealing their game. Some by disappointing sales. It's merely the flip side of what this thread is about: What makes you keep the motivation?

And on that topic, let me share a few things I've noticed about myself and my music creation.

• One thing that often motivates me is whenever I've made a sale. Especially if someone buys multiple tracks. That always gives a boost of motivation to start up a new track.
• And funnily: When I manage to complete a track (which only happens in 1 out of 10 times), that success alone sometimes also gives me a motivational boost to start up a new track, which is why I've often released two tracks right after each other.

But both of those examples are scenarios I can't actually do anything about. I can't do anything to make it happen. So they're not good examples.

Better examples are: "If I could reduce chances of my game being pirated, it would motivate me more". Great! Let's see if we can figure out ways to reduce or even prevent piracy for your game.
Or: "For me it helps a lot if I have good dev tools that lets me skip the boring parts of development". Alright then. That's something we can do something about. Let's make sure we have some good dev tools then! And don't forget to share your own tools with the rest of the community.

I can relate to that latter one for my music creation. For many years it was tedious work sampling instruments and split'n'cut them in Audacity. Until I discovered a simple SoX command that'd do it for me automatically. That did indeed boost the motivation, to be able skip that boring part and shorten my workflow like that. And I would share these commands here, if this thread was about music creation, but it's not. It's about Amstrad CPC game development.

Another thing I imagine would motivate devs, is to be able - with relatively little effort - to target multiple platforms? Develop the game, and then be able to produce binaries for Amstrad + ZX Spectrum + MSX + Amiga + whatever. Wouldn't that make everything feel much more "worth it"?
AGD that @arnoldemu mentioned is one way of achieving that. But I dunno. Would that be a motivational booster for you, or do you only have eyes for the CPC?

[roudoudou]

to let the dev keep the motivation, let the graphic guy do his job, and the musician too

and vice-versa

[andycadley]

Money, I'd say, is probably the biggest demotivater. Which might seem counter intuitive but:

• It sucks the fun out of a hobby and turns it into a job
• It's taxable income, so comes with a bunch of additional burdens on your time to record it and the tax will typically wipe most of it out.
• It creates expectations. People who donate in advance want results sooner. People who buy the game expect support. People get upset if you didn't agree with their feedback when they're the ones paying.
• The amount you can reasonably earn from CPC releases is miniscule, even less so from physical releases (which tbh are mostly vanity projects). If you actually want money you might just as well target the PC and just produce something retro-styled instead, the tooling is far better and you can avoid a lot of the tedious bits that come from underpowered hardware.

Community feedback can be a double edged sword. Seeing that there is interest as you go certainly can help, but it's difficult not to get derailed by everybody's suggestions (which are probably well meant). And again it brings a lot of expectations.

Another thing I imagine would motivate devs, is to be able - with relatively little effort - to target multiple platforms? Develop the game, and then be able to produce binaries for Amstrad + ZX Spectrum + MSX + Amiga + whatever. Wouldn't that make everything feel much more "worth it"?
AGD that @arnoldemu mentioned is one way of achieving that. But I dunno. Would that be a motivational booster for you, or do you only have eyes for the CPC?

Not really. Most of the appeal of retro programming is being able to push the hardware beyond what was perceived capable. Cross platform tools inevitably steer you instead towards a lowest common denominator. Tools like AGD are great if you're not really a programmer and can live within the sandbox they provide, but there's also a reason you can kind of spot an AGD game a mile off.

[mr_lou]

to let the dev keep the motivation, let the graphic guy do his job, and the musician too

Really?
That's not my experience. 
If the gamedev would let the musician do this job, then I'm sure the musician would keep the motivation. To be able to do the music exactly as I want without the gamedev telling me how it should be, helps a lot. But in my experience, the gamedev often has a lot of ideas on how it should sound, and therefor keeps asking for changes. That's not particular motivational for the musician.   And if the gamedev wasn't "allowed" to do this, then I'm sure he would lose the motivation.
(That's why I prefer doing stock tracks rather than project work).

But we can definitely agree that if everyone would let everyone do their own thing, then yes I think that would be beneficial for everyone. 

[mr_lou]

Money, I'd say, is probably the biggest demotivater.

I've also had this thought, and therefor wondered if it would be possible to use an advertisement model instead, like seen on mobile platforms.
Meaning, the game would be free, but it would show a fullscreen advertisement at the start.
Or even embed advertisement in the level graphics somehow, which would probably be my own preference.
Imagine some kind of side scrolling race game, with graphics of city buildings, and billboards here and there in that city with posters advertising for some project.
Not necessarily to be payed by the advertiser. It could just be to promote a friend, or another project of your own. In any case, you will logically have gained something extra. Maybe it could work as payment for a free copy of something the advertiser has made.
Just an idea.

[andycadley]

to let the dev keep the motivation, let the graphic guy do his job, and the musician too

Really?
That's not my experience. 
If the gamedev would let the musician do this job, then I'm sure the musician would keep the motivation. To be able to do the music exactly as I want without the gamedev telling me how it should be, helps a lot. But in my experience, the gamedev often has a lot of ideas on how it should sound, and therefor keeps asking for changes. That's not particular motivational for the musician.   And if the gamedev wasn't "allowed" to do this, then I'm sure he would lose the motivation.
(That's why I prefer doing stock tracks rather than project work).

But we can definitely agree that if everyone would let everyone do their own thing, then yes I think that would be beneficial for everyone. 

I think the problem there is that the developer often has to take on all the "other" roles, like project manager, designer etc. So they have a creative vision for the entire project, but aren't necessarily always the best at communicating the overall vision. So they ask for some music for a game, imagining something spooky and atmospheric, but get some 90s hardcore disco track that doesn't really "fit" the feel they were aiming for. 

There is also the issue that musicians and artists who haven't necessarily worked on many retro games produce content that isn't necessarily practical. It requires too much memory, CPU time or has other constraints that are harder to convey (the classic one being too many animation frames because the artist understands they've got X KB of memory for frames but doesn't consider the amount of additional state they add to on screen objects etc). 

[mr_lou]

I think the problem there is that the developer often has to take on all the "other" roles, like project manager, designer etc. So they have a creative vision for the entire project, but aren't necessarily always the best at communicating the overall vision. So they ask for some music for a game, imagining something spooky and atmospheric, but get some 90s hardcore disco track that doesn't really "fit" the feel they were aiming for.

I have no doubt that scenario is a good example of what often happens. The developer having some imagination and expectation of a certain sound, that isn't met. Or the musician wrongly visualising the game.
It speaks in favour of stock music I think: If all the CPC musicians made all their tracks available as stock music, they would effectively be able to do whatever style they wanted. And developers would then be able to browse a large library and find tracks that fits their games, in regards of style, filetype, size and whatever other limitations there might be. Stock music is simply a win/win in my book.
(Remember: Stock music doesn't exclude the possibility of exclusivity).

There is also the issue that musicians and artists who haven't necessarily worked on many retro games produce content that isn't necessarily practical. It requires too much memory, CPU time or has other constraints that are harder to convey (the classic one being too many animation frames because the artist understands they've got X KB of memory for frames but doesn't consider the amount of additional state they add to on screen objects etc).

Graphics is somewhat harder to do as stock graphics.   Not completely impossible, but tricky.
Certain title-screens could be from a stock library. Imagine space with stars and a planet and big letter spelling "TITLE". So that only "TITLE" needed to be replaced with the actual title. (Someone should make IndieGameGraphics.com for stock graphics like that.   )

But overall, it's merely about making the ride a less bumpy one for all participants. Developers must have easy access to assets, and creators must have easy ways of offering their assets.

[mr_lou]

Another thing I imagine would motivate devs, is to be able - with relatively little effort - to target multiple platforms? Develop the game, and then be able to produce binaries for Amstrad + ZX Spectrum + MSX + Amiga + whatever. Wouldn't that make everything feel much more "worth it"?
AGD that @arnoldemu mentioned is one way of achieving that. But I dunno. Would that be a motivational booster for you, or do you only have eyes for the CPC?

Not really. Most of the appeal of retro programming is being able to push the hardware beyond what was perceived capable. Cross platform tools inevitably steer you instead towards a lowest common denominator. Tools like AGD are great if you're not really a programmer and can live within the sandbox they provide, but there's also a reason you can kind of spot an AGD game a mile off.

I don't do a lot of coding. I mostly stick to music. But when I do code, my appeal is not to push the hardware beyond what was perceived capable. My goal is on the fun-factor. It doesn't have to be CPU demanding to be fun.
And if I can target many different platforms, then I definitely will.
My appeal of retro programming is to (try to) recreate that cosy atmosphere we had back then. That actually speaks more for simplistic ("Roland in Time" style) slow loading games than highly optimised games.
Don't get me wrong. Pinball Dreams and Dead on Time absolutely got me as hooked as everyone else too. But there's definitely also been newer games that are impressive from a technical perspective but just utterly boring to play.

As with everything else, we just have different objectives. And that's fine.

Does no one else find it motivating to be able to target multiple platforms with their games?

[andycadley]

Does no one else find it motivating to be able to target multiple platforms with their games?

I'd guess the question here is: Why would it be?

Everyone can "own" every retro platform easily via emulation these days, so you can play any game on whatever system it was designed for. Unless a conversion is going to do something different, there is a lot less of a point. And on the CPC in particular, there are already quite enough quick ports from other systems.

[reidrac]

Does no one else find it motivating to be able to target multiple platforms with their games?

I'd guess the question here is: Why would it be?

Everyone can "own" every retro platform easily via emulation these days, so you can play any game on whatever system it was designed for. Unless a conversion is going to do something different, there is a lot less of a point. And on the CPC in particular, there are already quite enough quick ports from other systems.

Exactly this! I can't think of anything more annoying that spending 6 months making a game and release it for free for someone on the Internet say: any chances of a port to [insert system here]? No, no chances.

We have access to all systems by just using an emulator. I know some people are very "intense" and hardcore fans but, at least for me, that has the opposite effect.

[mr_lou]

I'll admit I've often had that thought too: I could just install an emulator for whatever system whatever game was released for. But have never gotten around to it, because other systems just doesn't interest me equally much.
My girlfriend grew up with the C64, and we both had Amiga later, so that's about it. We play Amstrad CPC games and C64 games and Amiga games.

I'm with you on the port thing though. I'd also rather see new games created for the CPC than a port of an old game from another system. But I don't think those two scenarios compare. There's a big difference between releasing a new game for multiple platforms, and porting an old game to another platform.

As to the "why" question, the answer is pretty much the same to most questions about why we do anything with these old platforms: It's fun.
From a developer perspective, I can see how it would be fun to create the same game for many platforms - especially if it doesn't take a lot of work doing so.
It's basically what I do with my music as well; release many different filetype versions of the same track. It's a fun challenge. And it's nice having more potential recipients.
Obviously different developers will have different goals they find intriguing, so I don't expect multiple target platforms to be everyone's cup of tea.

[Prodatron]

Does no one else find it motivating to be able to target multiple platforms with their games?

I know this is off-topic here, but in my case I found it very motivating Coding an app or a game in SymbOS, which is then always running on all supported platforms is always fun. Edo never coded for the Amstrad CPC, and Prevtenet never on the MSX, but now you can play their games on both machines.

Back to topic:
A great example is Tenebra: As a big fan of this game I am really glad, that Haplo is always porting it to most of the important retro platforms. TBH I am very lazy in using other emulators, so if it would have only been released e.g. for the Spectrum I would have never tried it.

It's obvious, that this works good for "low-tech" games (e.g. Puzzle etc.), but when speaking about "high-tech" games every port would probably need a larger rewrite to use the specific advantages and capabilities of the platform.

[mr_lou]

It's not off-topic.   It's about what motivates the developer.

But apparently we have two groups of developers here. One that is motivated by being able to target multiple platforms, and one who is more motivated by pushing the CPC beyond what most people thought possible.

So the multiple-platform group should appreciate tools like Multiple-Platform Arcade Game Designer.

What other tools helps in relation to targeting multiple platforms?

[andycadley]

Exactly this! I can't think of anything more annoying that spending 6 months making a game and release it for free for someone on the Internet say: any chances of a port to [insert system here]? No, no chances.

I think "Sure. I look forward to seeing the results of your port" is the answer in those cases. It can be interesting to see the results of someone doing another version and putting their own spin on an idea, but just dumping out a straight port is rarely worth it.

[reidrac]

Exactly this! I can't think of anything more annoying that spending 6 months making a game and release it for free for someone on the Internet say: any chances of a port to [insert system here]? No, no chances.

I think "Sure. I look forward to seeing the results of your port" is the answer in those cases. It can be interesting to see the results of someone doing another version and putting their own spin on an idea, but just dumping out a straight port is rarely worth it.

Oh, no. Please! I had one of my MSX games ported a few times and I didn't like it too much

I rather be left alone to be honest. People can have their own ideas and draw their own graphics, etc.

[reidrac]

It's obvious, that this works good for "low-tech" games (e.g. Puzzle etc.), but when speaking about "high-tech" games every port would probably need a larger rewrite to use the specific advantages and capabilities of the platform.

In my case, when I make a game for a system, the game is generally designed around that system. If I was making the same game for a different system, the result would be different and, to some extent, a different game.

Personally I don't like making "portable 8-bit games". The only few cases of games that I made a version for different systems it was really a remake that only kept the core idea, and the more complex the game was, the less port it was.

[Egg Master]

I can see a lot of new games released or close to be released on CPC and for the GX4000. 
The motivation of the developers looks to be intact. I love the @reidrac and @Axelay games.

[mr_lou]

I can see a lot of new games released or close to be released on CPC and for the GX4000.
The motivation of the developers looks to be intact. I love the @reidrac and @Axelay games.

Feel free to rephrase it to "How can we boost the motivation?"

I notice in @reidrac's signature, there's a link to a coffee donation. I'm gonna assume if I buy him a cup of coffee, it'll boost his motivation, even if just a little. So that one can be added to the list as well: Buy developers a cup of coffee.

[dthrone]

Of course if you find most of the development process just a massive chore, maybe it's time to find a different hobby which you actually do enjoy

[arnoldemu]

AGD: I mentioned this because it opens up game making to more developers and I'm seeing more games make by this which is great to see. It also avoids having to know how to draw sprites and make the game engine which could put somebody off if they had to do that. I didn't really consider multiple platforms when I mentioned it but for some developers that is what encourages them.

Port/Conversion: I think a port is fine for those developers that choose it. It can help a developer who has worked on another platform (e.g. Spectrum) investigate the CPC. A port of an existing game is also well defined because the original gameflow and gameplay is there to copy or translate, it may in some part, be something a single developer can do if they haven't got a team yet.

Boring bits: I maybe made it sound worse than it is and it's not that much really. I guess I am making people aware as I see many started games on many platforms that don't progress to completion. I see those as a mix of releasing information too early and perhaps it got to a boring bit or perhaps time took over?

Helping: I accept I can't make music or sound effects or graphics and if I've got a game engine, I've got the mechanics of it working, I've got one level working, but then for me making more content is difficult and this is where I'd need to team up with multiple people to turn it into a fun game. I admire @reidrac and others who can do much more including design.