Mockups for MODE 1 minimalistic graphics platformer

[Blue]

I think it is a great idea and I would love to contribute with graphics for such a game!
I've made a handfull of very simple mockup's. They could use some refinement of course, but I went for nailing the mood.
(The mockup's are double sized for better viewing).

[mr_lou]

I especially like number 4 and 5.
The other 3 have a bit too much detail in my opinion. Should be a bit more minimalistic. Although, having a level where the graphics looks like that would be neat too.

[arnoldemu]

I think it is a great idea and I would love to contribute with graphics for such a game!
I've made a handfull of very simple mockup's. They could use some refinement of course, but I went for nailing the mood.
(The mockup's are double sized for better viewing).

Welcome!


Nice gfx as always

[TFM]

@Blue: The pics with the trees are amazing!!! Great work!

[Gryzor]

The trees look really good, and I love #4 and #5 as well. Can't say I'm crazy about the tiles in #1 and #2 though.


Great job mate, welcome - and a lovely avatar!

[ralferoo]

i think 2 and 3 are pretty awesome.

[Optimus]

I have been discussing this idea with Mr.Lou more than a year ago. Unfortunately I haven't done much on CPC since then but this discussion and the mock ups might motivate me again.


I love the Knytt series and thought it would be possible to have an engine that catches the minimalism nicely in Mode 1 with nice uses of  rasters and split rasters. I like some screens in knytt stories where there are two gradients in the background blended, for example one is the sky with colors changing like rasters on CPC and a second layer of mountains or trees or clouds with or without raster colors. I thought then some screen could share one or two colors for one or two layers with colors smoothly changing per line (to give the foggy or distant feeling) and then two colors are left for sprite and foreground (not much but some screens might share more colors and have less raster layers). Maybe one of the four colors, probably for the foreground tiles could also change more times per raster (split rasters) in some occasions. I thought something like the Mode5 in Grafx2 (two inks with different color per raster, one ink with different color per 32 or 48 pixels, one ink with single color all over the screen).


The screen configuration I thought was overscan on X (384 pixels I think) and less height on Y(160 iirc), to match the Knytt style (with 16x16 tiles, in the previous configuration we had 24x10 tiles per screen, seemed few on y but I realized it's very very close to the tile number on knytt stories, wow) and have a code taking the whole CPU time synchronized during those lines to change the raster colors, and then there is enough time left with the small and few sprites per screen in Knytt style game. Anyway, that was my idea (and I never even started coding an example of this kind of screen) and if you prefer fullscreen instead of wide I am open to this. I'd like to find a window of motivation (like window of opportunity, a timeline where I suddenly get in the mood to start coding on my CPC again) as soon as possible, however I am glad to hear anyone else being interested to be the coder for such a project, or we could cooperate if I am there and one likes, no prob with that.


I am happy to at least see some inspiring screens of how it could look like (hopefully I will try my raster-split idea oneday to see how my own vision would look like) and I am curious to hear the musics published too (I am currently in an office and can't test it right now but at night I will) because my biggest curiosity is how the CPC can match those sweet tunes from the knytt games.

[Gryzor]

What do you know, maybe this will become reality?

[mr_lou]

I thought something like the Mode5 in Grafx2 (two inks with different color per raster, one ink with different color per 32 or 48 pixels, one ink with single color all over the screen).

I don't know a whole lot about rasters and such, so just to check if I understand this correctly:
Each line of the screen can contain 2 different colors + a background color + an additional color that can also change each 32 pixels? Meaning each line can actually contain 2 + 1 + (384/32) colors? That's 15 colors?
And on the very next line, the 2 different colors can change into 2 other colors, while the background color has to remain the same, but the additional color can still change for each 32 pixels?

This will mean that each screen has to contain some color data as well, describing which colors are used?

[Optimus]

Yes, something like that. The extra colour information has to be describe in data for each screen too.

One correction, there are two posibilities I think for split raster, change color per 32 pixels (8 bytes) or per 48 pixels (12 bytes).

The fast way to change split raster colors is a series of OUT (C),reg where reg is several registers with preloaded the value that will change (and we have A,B,C,D,E,H,L and maybe not all of them). Each out takes 4 nops I think, 8 bytes on retrace. No more than 6 or 7 different colors though. And maybe not enough time per line for preloading the values (I gotta try this first). That's why 32 pixels.

The better way is a series of LD A,value:OUT(C),A. This is 6 nops, 12 bytes, 48 pixels. So, you can have full control of by automodifying the code at those places where 'value' is with your prefered value for each 48pixel block.

The second method is used by Mode-5 mode. I may adapt the second because it gives more control and more colors to the artist. It's just that I hope I could use the first 32pixels which is better number

Anyway,. I once did a schematic for a friend of the four different pages that is used to create a Mode-5 image in Grafx2 CPC edition. I will try to attach. It very nicely shows the configuration of Mode-5 screens.

p.s. I started yesterday coding a first experiment for the knytt idea. Just the widen 96bytes by 160 line screen, draw some mock up tile to test it and will start coding the rendering and the synchronized split code I described above. I might also try to convert some of your mock up or blue's screenshots for additional tests. Might post something soon.

[McKlain]

Didn't "mode 5" require a lot of cpu as to be used on a game?

[mr_lou]

Hmm, I actually used GrafX2 for those initial 3 mockups I posted. Never saw any Amstrad MODE 5 option though, so I just downloaded the latest version 2.3 of GrafX2 now.
I see there are now Layers one can use, but I simply can't figure out how that can be used to draw within MODE 5 restrictions...   

Can anyone enlighten me somehow?

[Blue]

Hi guys. For some reason I've not received a mail when someone replied in this thread, but I've been updated by mr_lou who is a more frequent visitor here anyway 

Thank you arnoldemu, TFM/FS, Gryzor, ralferoo and mr_lou for your comments!

Optimus, it sounds really interesting, and it would be nice to work with a larger palette, although there's a lot of charm in the use of 4 colours.

Mr_lou and I will try to work out a couple of mockup's with this new method in mind. (Him being the Amstrad geek ;-) We are a couple btw if you haven't guessed).

Like mr_lou I can't figure out how to setup GrafX2 to mode5.. Would like some help 

Here is first try with more colours. There are surely things to correct to make it fit in mode5, but it's a start.

[steve]

I don't know what mode 5 is, and neither does the Wiki, would someone write a page on it please, including programming tips and tutorials.
Thanks.

[SyX]

I created the "mode 5" a few years ago, is simply an intensive use of rasters in mode 1 to give more free to the artist (with colour limitations similar to systems with tile modes) and mainly for static screens. It  wasn't designed to be used in games... that not mean that you can not use it for more "interactive things" (because i have tested that), but for a game is much better use the 300Hz interrupt and split the screen in a few regular zones as "Le 5me Axe", for example.

[mr_lou]

It  wasn't designed to be used in games...

But surely it's not a problem to use it? I mean, especially if the platforms and character is a single color, like in the above example.

Do you know of any graphical tools that makes it easier to create "mode 5" screens?

[SyX]

But surely it's not a problem to use it? I mean, especially if the platforms and character is a single color, like in the above example.

Well, as i said are intensive rasters and that mean in every scanline with the full fx, all the cpu is taking for it, not the most friendly for a game, at least it was very simple.

Do you know of any graphical tools that makes it easier to create "mode 5" screens?

Sure, i use my own converter, but PulkoMandy, that liked the idea from the beginning, made a great work adding it to GrafX2 for easy editing.

[mr_lou]

Well, as i said are intensive rasters and that mean in every scanline with the full fx, all the cpu is taking for it, not the most friendly for a game, at least it was very simple.

Would it help if 3 of the colors were the same on the whole screen, while only the 4th color changes every 32 pixels?
Are you saying, that if/when using this MODE 5, then there's no room for music nor game-logic?

Sure, i use my own converter, but PulkoMandy, that liked the idea from the beginning, made a great work adding it to GrafX2 for easy editing.

Would you mind sharing this converter tool, and tell a little info about it? What does it convert from?
I've been trying to figure out how to use GrafX2 to make MODE 5 pictures, but I'm too stoopid. I'll ask PulkoMandy on IRC today when I run into him.

[Axelay]

Would it help if 3 of the colors were the same on the whole screen, while only the 4th color changes every 32 pixels?
Are you saying, that if/when using this MODE 5, then there's no room for music nor game-logic?

To change even one colour that frequently still requires constant cpu use for the entire height of the play area.  It's flat out sending colour data to the video gate array.  So if you have a play area 160 pixels high, that is 160 scan lines of the screen refresh for which the cpu cannot be used or interrupted for anything else (or at least, it'd be extremely tricky to do anything else).  The screen is 312 scan lines high, which would still leave around 152 scan lines left for logic, sprites and audio under normal circumstances.


However, if you still want to use audio at 100hz or 150hz, you would need the sound player to be called every 156 or 104 scan lines.   And the player itself will probably consume 25-30 scan lines each call, which will not leave enough room for the 160 scan line high mode 5 effect over the play area.  Unless you work around only having mode 5 style colouring over just part (a horizontal band) of the play area (or a quite narrow play area!), it would be 'one or the other' of mode 5 or 100hz+ audio, and going with the simpler 300hz colour zones Syx mentioned would probably be a better option if it's the audio you want foremost.

[mr_lou]

Thanks for that info Axelay.

It's important to keep in mind the kind of simplistic game Knytt is. Theoretically it shouldn't require a whole lot of game-logic.
But of course, I'm not a coder, so I don't know what a scanline equals in average instructions.

Anyway... I figure, if we can have a 384x156 mode 5 screen with 100hz music, that would be fine. But I must admit, in my music tests I think 50hz music might suffice afterall. But I'd like to hear what other musicians think.

I guess some coder will have to code a very small 1-screen demonstration of this in order to find out how much will be left for actual game logic? A mode 5 screen with 50hz or 100hz music playing.

[Optimus]

Yep, this is what I had in mind. 160 lines lost and 152 lines left for other stuff (sprites, logic, sound). Which is not few if the sprites are few in number and small in size like in Knytt stories. Maybe if some screens change only color per line and not per 32 or 48 pixels then some CPU time can be used between those raster lines, so maybe some darker screens without split rasters could allow for more sprites but I'll have to make some tests to be sure. 100-150 or 300hz sounds in some screens would be possible and interesting too. Ok,. gotta shut up and code now


[correction] No, there would be a problem with more than 150hz sounds I realized. Of course. I should have the interrupts disables between raster colors, so no interrupt sound code for 3 halts at least


p.s. Grafx2 Mode5 seemed hard to use to some other graphicians I have spoken with. I had made sense of it some time ago though and I might write something about it a bit later (or send a pm to anyone interested).

[McKlain]

Honestly, I still don't see the need to use more than 50hz for the music, but I'm just a newbie in making music for the CPC 

[mr_lou]

Honestly, I still don't see the need to use more than 50hz for the music, but I'm just a newbie in making music for the CPC 

I agree that in most cases, we'll be able to create fine ambient music just fine with only 50hz. But when you need to create bird-sounds for example, the 50hz will not suffice I think. I've been doing a few experiments during the past weeks, and found that 150hz music isn't really an advantage. But 100hz would be nice in some cases, and otherwise 50hz will suffice. Creating a bird-sound using 50hz will make it sound a bit robotic. But with 100hz I believe we can create a fairly true-sounding bird-sound. Haven't gotten that far yet though.

Optimus, do you think the game-engine can have 2 or even 3 different setups for levels?
For example. One level (or world-type if you will) that has MODE 5 screen with lots of color change - and therefor only 50hz music
A second level (or world-type) that has a bit more restricted MODE 5 screen, e.g. that only changes the 4rd color every 32 pixels, while the 3 other colors remain the same - and 100hz music
And if necessary, a third level (or world-type) that is standard MODE 1 screen, and in most cases also just plays 100hz music, but could play 150hz if needed.

I'm also thinking, that each world should allow for different color-setups. For example, in one world, the platforms and character could be one dark-greyish color, while the background is colorful. In another world the background could be all black while the character and platforms have all the colors. That would be awesome, because it would give the game variation without changing the gameplay.

Would something like that be possible you think?

[mr_lou]

Well, first reason why it has proven difficult to figure out how to create MODE 5 pictures with GrafX2, is seemingly because you need a special version of GrafX2.

This one: http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/downloads/detail?name=grafx2-2.3wip1725_cpcmode5-win32.zip

More info here: http://www.pushnpop.net/topic-207-1.html

It exists only in a Windows binary though, and I'm out of luck compiling the source on Linux. Running the Windows binary with Wine is possible, although I experienced one crash and I'm not sure everything is working like it should. Maybe you'll have better luck?

EDIT: Also appears that color change for the 4th color can only happen each 48 pixels instead of the 32 pixels we've been assuming so far?

[Optimus]

Optimus, do you think the game-engine can have 2 or even 3 different setups for levels?
For example. One level (or world-type if you will) that has MODE 5 screen with lots of color change - and therefor only 50hz music
A second level (or world-type) that has a bit more restricted MODE 5 screen, e.g. that only changes the 4rd color every 32 pixels, while the 3 other colors remain the same - and 100hz music
And if necessary, a third level (or world-type) that is standard MODE 1 screen, and in most cases also just plays 100hz music, but could play 150hz if needed.

I'm also thinking, that each world should allow for different color-setups. For example, in one world, the platforms and character could be one dark-greyish color, while the background is colorful. In another world the background could be all black while the character and platforms have all the colors. That would be awesome, because it would give the game variation without changing the gameplay.

Would something like that be possible you think?

This is exactly what I have in mind. It's quite possible to provide 2-3 or few more different display codes depending on the screen, since I am not planning this to be a scrolling game but still having knytt in mind where new screen appeared when you reached the edge of the previous screen. So, each screen has additional data for colors and color mode information, previous screens fades out and the corresponding renderer is called. I was even thinking that maybe, maybe some screens or worlds could have different width/height too. Maybe the hero would enter a tower and for those screens inside provide a configuration that is more wide on Y than X (maybe with less raster colors or not at all to save lines for CPU in this case). This is just an idea.


As for the color setups, I thought about it too. Since, two colors might remain for hero and foreground, maybe hero uses more than 1 of these colors for little details and we also give for example some redish coloring to the tiles below and that colorizes the hero's details too (for example, a lava room, lava glow on the hero, maybe it looks bad maybe not, I don't know). If I can finish an editor for the maps and all, then it all depends on the restrictions I put and the designer's imagination.