Mockups for MODE 1 minimalistic graphics platformer

[mr_lou]

For some time now, I've felt like doing a MODE 1 game for the CPC in similar style as Within a deep forest and Knytt, coded by Nifflas.
Link: http://nifflas.ni2.se/

I imagine it to be a game with very minimalistic graphics. These simple minimalistic graphics is an important part of the charm.
The game should have lots of very atmospheric ambient music. This music is basically what carries the whole game.

I'm just throwing up some mockups I've been doing today, to inspire people.

I'd love to do this game myself, but I'd need my sMIDP2lib before being able to. If some other coder feels like doing this project, I welcome him.
I imagine the music to be composed by lots and lots of CPC musicians, to give the various levels variation. Likewise, the graphics can also come from lots of lots of CPC graphicians.

Download Within a deep forest and Knytt and check those out for inspiration as well. Within a deep forest has stunning great music, very fitting to each level.

How cool would it be to create a CPC game where 20+ people participated by creating a track or some graphics?

[Gryzor]

Those mockups look just fine. Indeed, it's a good idea - there's quite some interest in minimalistic games and old 8-bitters could handle these rather well...

[mr_lou]

Those mockups look just fine. Indeed, it's a good idea - there's quite some interest in minimalistic games and old 8-bitters could handle these rather well...

That's exactly what I'm thinking. A minimalistic game like this is ideal for the CPC.
The thing is, these games mostly use the music as the main source of entertainment. It's the music that sets the whole mood. It's the music that makes the minimalistic graphics shine.
So the challenge would mostly be for the musicians to make something very special and unique. Simplistic ambient, yet very catchy and filling. That's the biggest challenge with a game like this on the CPC I think. But I think it can be done. I might post an example sound-clip when I manage to produce something similar to what I have in mind.

The 2nd biggest challenge is to come up with an interesting story behind the game. Something new if possible.
I had the thought of maybe you would control a dude who was somehow transported into his brother's 8bit retro game, and his brother tries to help him from behind the screen by changing the code while he's in there. So signs would show up: "No, don't go to the left. Go to the right".
Or "In the next screen some bad guys will attack you. Don't worry though. They can't hurt you, I've removed collision detection for now".

Not sure how good that idea is though, or what it could be expanded to.

Would like to hear other suggestions for stories.

Coding the game is probably not difficult for a CPC coder, since it would be still screens, and very few sprites moving in each screen.
Graphics should theoretically also be quite easy to make, since they're that simple. But level-design will of course require some work.

[Gryzor]

This plot idea is great, I think; very meta!

You're right about the music, though I wouldn't find it necessary 100%. Technically it would still be more than possible, though you'd need someone who knows their tunes...

[mr_lou]

You're right about the music, though I wouldn't find it necessary 100%. Technically it would still be more than possible, though you'd need someone who knows their tunes...

Yea, but also someone who can find out to limit themselves. Often a single channel will suffice to create something slow and relaxing. So one good approach is to use the center channel for this, and then use the right or left channel to produce an echo of the center channel. Gives quite a good stereo echo effect.
A simple one-tone-at-a-time melody can become quite ambient this way.

Another thing I want to look into is sound-effects to put into the music, i.e. not to be used as ingame sound-effects, but rather as part of the music.
E.g. use the noise of the CPC to create the sound of the wind blowing in the trees in a forest. I think I've managed to do this already. Next I want to try to create bird-like sounds, which I'm also quite sure is possible. Another idea could be to use the noise to create a sound like ocean waves.
But in order to be able to create sound-effects like this, we might need to use 100hz or even 150hz music. This shouldn't be a problem for the game though, since it is exactly a very relaxing game where not a whole lot is happening.

One very groovy thing about Within a deep forest in my opinion, is that quite a few musicians created the music. This gives each level a very different feel from the other levels. So what we need to get this project started is
- a bunch of musicians who's interested in creating at least one track
- a bunch of graphicians who's interested in creating at least one tilesheet for a level
- a coder
- a good story
- someone or more to design the levels

I'd like to contribute to everything except the coding. 

[tastefulmrship]

Good luck with your project, but I really don't like minimalist platformers; like LIMBO or the recent WAR OF THE WORLDS game. Infact, the INDIE section of XBL has hundreds of these games and they are all very frustrating and boring.

[TotO]

Good luck with your project, but I really don't like minimalist platformers. These games and they are all very frustrating and boring.

Looking more like a concept than a real game.
And it's a problem, because the graphic style have to come after a solid game idea to deserve it, and not the opposite.

[mr_lou]

Good luck with your project, but I really don't like minimalist platformers; like LIMBO or the recent WAR OF THE WORLDS game. Infact, the INDIE section of XBL has hundreds of these games and they are all very frustrating and boring.

Well, any kind of game will always be boring to someone. Text-adventures isn't a big hit with me for example. Even graphical adventures has never been my favorite, because I find them frustrating.
The few times I've played Limbo, I didn't find it frustrating though. But it did get a bit boring after a while. I don't know War of the Worlds.
I don't consider Within a deep forest to be the same kind of game though. You have to try it out to know.
Obviously, making a similar game for the CPC, wouldn't result in a game for all CPC users. But one thing is for sure: It would be the very first of its kind for the CPC.

Looking more like a concept than a real game. And it's a problem, because the graphic style have to come after a solid game idea to deserve it, and not the opposite.

People can make up all the rules they want about how this and that should or shouldn't be done. I don't think you'll be able to create something unique by following the same rules everyone else is. And the fact is, that some games on XBL has even grown in popularity because of their very simple graphics. It was simply something people hadn't seen before, and that made it interesting.

If you think the graphics in Within a deep forest doesn't suffice, then you're misunderstanding something. Some games just have that graphics style. If you don't like it, play something else. The huge success of Limbo shows that are people in the world with a different opinion.

But as I said, I don't consider this CPC game idea to be the same kind of game as Limbo.

It would be like a 50% music experience, and 50% game. The music is what carries it all, so it would be a kind of music-world or music-disc where different parts of the world has different music or sound-scapes. It would be a slow non-action game, which is probably what most action-fans will dislike. But with a deeper story and objective. Almost adventure-game like, but without silly running-from-the-edge-of-the-map-to-the-other-edge all the time.

Most other (newer) games on the CPC focuses on showing what the CPC can do CPU wise and graphical-wise and effect-wise. We haven't yet produced a game that shows what it can do sound-wise. A game that focuses on sound-scapes and ambient background music, and because audio is the focus, then graphics are not. (Those are the "rules" I'm inventing).

Anyway, it's not my project. It's just an idea. Now it's on the table, for anyone to pick up.

EDIT: I mean, when music is the main focus, we need to give most CPU power to the music. E.g. 100Hz or 150Hz music. Therefor it cannot be a million-moving-sprites-on-the-screen-at-the-same-time game.

[tastefulmrship]

Most other (newer) games on the CPC focuses on showing what the CPC can do CPU wise and graphical-wise and effect-wise. We haven't yet produced a game that shows what it can do sound-wise. A game that focuses on sound-scapes and ambient background music, and because audio is the focus, then graphics are not. (Those are the "rules" I'm inventing).

I beg to differ. Orion Prime is a (excuse the pun) prime example of atmospheric music/fx enhancing a CPC-play experience.
Mr. Nevo created a simply amazing soundtrack for a simply amazing (if way too short) CPC adventure game that had large MODE 0 graphics, a large intro/extro, CRTC tricks, a varied soundtrack, multiple endings and decent gameplay. Proof that modern games can have their cake and eat it.

And these days I, personally, tend to play games with the sound off or while listening to my "small" music collection, so I wouldn't be getting the full experience of your interactive-music project; so I'll pass and, again, wish you luck in this endeavour.

[TotO]

People can make up all the rules they want about how this and that should or shouldn't be done. I don't think you'll be able to create something unique by following the same rules everyone else is.

On 10000 peoples, you found 1 "Eric Chahi"... Others make poor or avorted games.
It's not rules, it's common sense. But, genius can except that to go ahead.

or  And the fact is, that some games on XBL has even grown in popularity because of their very simple graphics. It was simply something people hadn't seen before, and that made it interesting.

You see simple graphics, like many peoples see simple gameplay behind mario or puzzle games...
And if you want to reproduce that, you are wrong because you don't see how complex it's behind.

How cool would it be to create a CPC game where 20+ people participated by creating a track or some graphics?

Sorry, but games need coherency and I doubt you can federate 20+ peoples around an united project.

[mr_lou]

I beg to differ. Orion Prime is a (excuse the pun) prime example of atmospheric music/fx enhancing a CPC-play experience.

Well true, Orion Prime is a master piece. Yet I doubt it's using music or sound-scapes at 150Hz. (Even 300Hz is possible to create, but not sure how much CPU power 300Hz tracks leave for the actual game-logic stuff). I admit I haven't played the game a whole lot though, so I don't know, but I'm quite sure the music wasn't the main focus of Orion Prime when it was developed.

And these days I, personally, tend to play games with the sound off or while listening to my "small" music collection, so I wouldn't be getting the full experience of your interactive-music project; so I'll pass and, again, wish you luck in this endeavour.

Quite true, this project is obviously not for you if you play games with the sound off.

On 10000 peoples, you found 1 "Eric Chahi"... Others make poor or avorted games.
It's not rules, it's common sense. But, genius can except that to go ahead.
Sorry, but games need coherency and I doubt you can federate 20+ peoples around an united project.

Ah yes, Another World is another great example. Thanks. And there are many more out there - but that's not what this thread is about. Neither is it about preference-religion. Common sense? Seriously? This is not a commercial enterprise project we're discussing here you know. Many (MANY) people would not consider it common sense to spend your time on anything CPC releated, simply because there's no money in it. I don't really care about that, and you obviously don't either, seeing as you just spent the last few years re-creating the R-Type game for the CPC. It obviously makes sense to you to spend years re-creating a game for the CPC, just as it makes sense to me to realize a game like this. You must really like R-Type, just as I like this idea.

And of course games need coherency. (But that too is a matter of definition these days). Having music (and in this case graphics) will not make this game incoherent. Within a deep forest isn't incoherent either, despite the fact that the 17 amazing, and quite different tracks, for it was created by 10 different musicians. It gave the game variation - not incoherency.

And even if someone made a game with completely different graphics in each level.... let's say, it could be about a dude who was trapped in various retro-platforms, going from the monochrome gameboy to the Sega Master to the CPC to the C64 to the NES - and thus going through levels with lots of different styles of graphics and colors and sound. Talk about incoherency - but it would still rock. Retro gamers would love it.

I don't really care to discuss religion though. You have your preference, I have mine, and others have theirs. This is an idea for a CPC project, and all you can contribute with is "It doesn't make any sense"? Or "I play games with sound off"? Really? Ok then. That's your own decision of course.

If no coder is interested in this project, then I'll probably end up doing this project myself some day in the future if/when I get a library for SDCC that'll let me. Because this is a game I've felt like doing for years. Common sense or not, that won't change. 

[tastefulmrship]

I don't really care to discuss religion though. You have your preference, I have mine, and others have theirs. This is an idea for a CPC project, and all you can contribute with is "It doesn't make any sense"? Or "I play games with sound off"? Really? Ok then. That's your own decision of course.

Yes. Right. Apologies for wasting your time, sir.

Maybe you should contact The Mojon Twins, they've produced a number of platform games in the past.
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff&lenom=The%20Mojon%20Twins

[mr_lou]

I quite like Mojon Twins' games. Especially Sir Ababol and Uwol2. I think their games are very cozy. But I don't think their engine quite fits this idea at the moment.

Anyway. Attached is an example of what I believe qualifies as ambient music on the CPC.
Try listening with headphones and notice the stereo. This is only 50Hz though, and doesn't give an example of some of the other things I have in mind. Will try posting some of those later.

[steve]

If you want a game that concentrates on sound, will you make it a plus game so that it can use the DMA sound feature?
Such a game could produce software speech synthesis using DMA and use the Z80 for speech recognition using a microphone connected to the analogue joystick port.

[mr_lou]

If you want a game that concentrates on sound, will you make it a plus game so that it can use the DMA sound feature?
Such a game could produce software speech synthesis using DMA and use the Z80 for speech recognition using a microphone connected to the analogue joystick port.

Generally I only develop for the devices I own. But even if I got a plus today, it wouldn't weigh as much as having grown up with the CPC464.
So no, the target will be a CPC with 128k of memory and disk-drive.

[McKlain]

I find this project pretty interesting. As far as I know there is nothing like this on the CPC. 

I'm into the ambient thing and I could make some music for the game. I already have a few "loops" that could be suitable for this.

[attachurl=2]

And I absolutely love LIMBO, by the way. 

[mr_lou]

Yay! So now we're two musicians! Groovy!

Your track/loop is absolutely perfect for a game like this McKlain

I'm currently working on several tracks/ideas for the game at the same time. I have a track ready which I think suits the title screen, and one for when the game is completed. I'd prefer to keep those tracks for the project-group members only though, in order to keep most parts of the game a surprise for the community when it's fully developed.
I think other musicians and graphicians interested in this project should also keep their art to themselves for now, just in order to make sure that the music will be a first-time-listening for everyone who'll play the game.
Some small examples, like the one McKlain posted, is fine though.

And we need a project leader. In my logic this person should be the one who's doing the coding. I know Optimus was interested at some point, but he's currently outside a CPC-mood-loop. (I'm currently stuck in one though it seems).
My girlfriend would like to do some of the graphics. I'll probably try too.

So we currently have 2 musicians and 1½ graphicians. 

I imagine the level-design to be done by different people also, just like the levels in Within a deep forest are quite different. It doesn't matter. In fact, I think it's a good thing if each level doesn't look like the other levels.

The musicians could also look into another challenge: See if you can produce sounds from the nature. For example, bird-sounds should (theoretically) be easy to create with the square synth. And I've already created the sound of wind in a forest using the noise. Maybe we can create other nature-sounds to use as background soundscapes?

About sound-volume, I'll say that the track-suggestions I've made for the title screen and game-completed, are using normal volume. But the tracks I plan to create for in-game, are using lower volume on purpose. I figure this will help the game seem more calm / down-to-earth. Don't you think?

[McKlain]

What did you use to play the YM? I was testing it on the java cpc ym player after posting it but I found out that some of the sounds didn't play as intended.

[mr_lou]

What did you use to play the YM? I was testing it on the java cpc ym player after posting it but I found out that some of the sounds didn't play as intended.

- which is why I uploaded an mp3 myself. 
Most emulators doesn't play back correctly either.

I used ymplayer for Linux. I think it's part of the repository of Ubuntu.

[Gryzor]

Echoes is really nice. Can someone provide an mp3 of the ym?

[McKlain]

Echoes is really nice. Can someone provide an mp3 of the ym?

You mean an YM of the mp3? 

[Gryzor]

No, an mp3 of the ym posted after the mp3 of the echoes ym. Naufragos, that is.

[McKlain]

That one is mine, let me export a wav from Arkos.

[McKlain]

It's on my soundcloud account now, you can download it from there (there is a download button).

http://soundcloud.com/mcklain/naufragos-en-un-mar-de

[Gryzor]

Ohhh man that's a fantastic tune, I want to see it (=hear it) in a game!