Retro events

[khisanth]

Okay guys do any of you lot attend any retro events in the UK or abroad?

Be good to meet any fellow CPC forum members!

Also I think the Amstrad is very under represented at the events i have been to. It would be great if we could get together and make some kind of Amstrad contribution as these events usually welcome people bringing their own systems.

what do you think?

[MacDeath]

I will go to spain :
Madrid, the 12-14 march.

The problem with retro events : it depends where you are, and the theme of the event.

Many are console related so lots of Nintendo and sega fags.
Also the 16bit too.

Mostly because 16 machines are more impressive of course.

in eastern europe, lots of speccys.
in england, Amstrad CPC was not a very popular format.

In france or Spain perhaps CPC is more common, yet despite wikipedia telling us a large fanbase is still active, this is not really true.

We are not that numerous.

[khisanth]

Yes thats true, which is why i want to get more Amstrads at these events!!!!

I went to Retrovision at the weekend and not a single Amstrad! Loads of other systems though.

[ukmarkh]

Amstrad was the 3rd machine in the UK, only because Speccy was out a lot longer. I think the CPC out sold the Speccy every year, and became a major rival to Commodore in the UK. I'm sure the UK was the biggest market for the CPC, yes it was succesful abroad but from memory bigger in the UK.

So no more talk about the CPC not being popular in the UK. 

[MacDeath]

Ok, I'm fine with that.
God save the Queen and british 8 bits from the 80's.

But the fact is that many switched to 16 bit computers and those are more beloved, as they were more powerfull.

Only hardcore nerdz find it fun to stay on 8 bit to show what they could achieve.

Yet the simpler way to deal with the lack of amstrad issues is...to bring one at those.

a nicely modded 6128 CPC/+ with a 3"1/2 disk drive and colour monitor.
a shitton of good disks and perhaps a nice pair of sweet joysticks and here we go, Rick Dangerous 128+, Star Sabre or any Mojon colourfull production, also Orion Prime because the intro by itself is awesome and few 8 bit can compare with it IMO.

also a sweet cartridge section is to be bring thx to a multi EEprom cart ideally.

Plotting, Pang, Robocop 2, Navy seal, Panza kick boxing, both Tennis games and the Magic Pinball, perhaps Switchblade too.
Those were the few games really well done for the GX4000 and able to show it wasn't a lame as people may expect.

And concerning Demo, I suppose the best choices would be those who do not only display fukken scroll texts but a more proper "animation" feeling, and some sweet diaporama+music then..

Boolaware games used to get sweet intros too.


But problems seem to be :

--mostly, the Amstrad scene go to Amstrad mini-meetings, almost private.
--when you attend to a major event quite far away, you may not be able to bring your hardware.
--the CPC-scene would need to have something new to show, I mean, need to be perhaps more active.


Exemple : the AY-scene (chip-tune) is mostly ZX speccy at best.
And the 8 bit chip tune is in fact mostly Nintendo or pehaps C64 somethimes.

when I look at youtuben I find a lot of songs ports into 8 bit...most of them are Nintendo.

Oh god I hate it, I think it sounds terrible..

exemple :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-TcD0japKs
ouch I hate this sound.

but as it is a reliable hardware, easier to find.

Many chip-tuner use a gameboy on stage.

The problem in this case : there are no chip-tuner touring with Amstrad CPC.

Yet compaired to Speccy, CPC may allows better video projections for exemple.
And the PLUS DMA channels may be sweet to.

And is it me or the CPC is set lower in tonality than Speccy ?


Well, an active musician in the chip-tune movement, touring and doing live performances would also be great for our beloved CPC.

Perhaps the Amstrad CPC/Plus Scene lacks a proper cartridge Application for live musical performance.
This would be awesome IMO.

Also if the PLUS cartridge technology was well know and really reproduce-able...this would enable the scene to be more active actually.

This may be the goal of this 2010 year.

Really document this ACID well and manage new productions of cartridges.

[khisanth]

Interesting points. With the 8 bit machines people will tend to bring a modded machine or bring new hardware add ons like compact flash drives, network cards, hard drives etc.  It makes them much more interesting and more importantly lets people play any game and load it quickly. 

The C64 and Atari 800 series have lots of hardware for them and they are always present. Sinclair Spectrums like the Amstrad dont really have any hardware add ons. They used a CD player to load in games at Retrovision, which can be done with the Amstrad.

My floppy disk emulator card would be perfect for these events, but it needs a PC to go with it!!!

Music wise I am heavily into the C64 SID and remix scene, the AY scene is not really specific to any machine as it was in multiple machines so there is no sense of identity with it.

[arnoldemu]

Sinclair Spectrums like the Amstrad dont really have any hardware add ons.

Not true. If you read the World of Spectrum forums (which I do, but I also read some c64 forums too), then you will see that for the spectrum there are:
- various disc interfaces including SD car readers
- a ethernet card
- a enhanced ULA with 64-colours
- memory upgrades
- hard drives (one which is very simple and uses 8-bit transfer, another using 16-bit transfer) with the OS modified to use it (Spectrum +3e).
- various rom upgrades, one with all the bugs fixed

So there are a lot!

Some of these can be transfered to the cpc - but we also have our own selection of hardware

[khisanth]

ah excellent, I just never hear about these things and never see them at events etc.

Recently I have been seeing a lot of BBC micro hardware.

[Bryce]

This just means we need to start getting more active and designing more stuff! We can easily "out-retro" any 8-Bit that cares to try!

I spent most of my time doing Atari XE/XL hardware in the past, from a hardware point of view it was easier to inteface to than the CPC, but that just increases the challenge, nothings impossible.

Bryce.

[MacDeath]

It seems the important stuff to really developp on Amstrad :

--proper network solutions. I have a few idea on a new cpc-network concept.

--managing to crack this Acid chip so we may produce new Cartridges for Plus range, the only way to give it a chance, and a real retro value...

Just having a 6128+ standard with 256ko or even 512ko cartridges and a real knoledge of them (how to use them) may be more than enough to renew interest in Amstrad 8 bit.

The potential is just too good to be neglected.

Just imagine the potential of a properly networked set of 6128+ with 512Ko booting cartridges full of neat sounds and video application...

sounds good for a Chip-Tune projekt.

[redbox]

Just having a 6128+ standard with 256ko or even 512ko cartridges and a real knoledge of them (how to use them) may be more than enough to renew interest in Amstrad 8 bit.
good for a Chip-Tune projekt.

I agree completely, cartridges is where it's at.

The Plus was such a cool 8-bit machine but it can only really shine with the memory and instant loading of a cartridge...

[Bryce]

I have been actively trying to get myself a CPC+ and cartridge for quite a while now, so that I can crack the ACID problem, but I haven't been able to find one for a reasonable price... yet.

On the "networking" side of things, I have an idea scribbled down somewhere to connect a CPC to the USB port of a PC to form a network, but never got around to building it. But it's high on my list of "CPC Things to do". Along with 20 other ideas that I don't have time to do

If you have any other ideas that need hardware support, let me know.

I intend building the SDEmul expansion soon, which is probably the closest thing to modern mass storage for the CPC and easily competes with solutions for other 8-Bit computers. I'll let you know how it goes.

Bryce.

[arnoldemu]

I agree completely, cartridges is where it's at.

The Plus was such a cool 8-bit machine but it can only really shine with the memory and instant loading of a cartridge...

I think as a temporary solution, people could make demos/games or patch existing games to use the cartridge emulator format?
Then we have some knowledge and tips on how to make cartridge software...?

[arnoldemu]

I have been actively trying to get myself a CPC+ and cartridge for quite a while now, so that I can crack the ACID problem, but I haven't been able to find one for a reasonable price... yet.

On the "networking" side of things, I have an idea scribbled down somewhere to connect a CPC to the USB port of a PC to form a network, but never got around to building it. But it's high on my list of "CPC Things to do". Along with 20 other ideas that I don't have time to do

If you have any other ideas that need hardware support, let me know.

I intend building the SDEmul expansion soon, which is probably the closest thing to modern mass storage for the CPC and easily competes with solutions for other 8-Bit computers. I'll let you know how it goes.

Bryce.

Networking:

I had a plan a long time ago which was to run a webserver on the cpc.

The idea came down to running contiki OS on the CPC, and it's webbrowser (either with contiki's tcp implementation or the one by Mark Rison). The hardware side would be covered by a cpcbooster serial interface connected to a pc via a serial cable. The pc running linux and forwarding requests and my broadband modem accepting incomming connections. But I never finished it.

I did spend some time wiring cat5 cable in our house though, which didn't get finished either

[khisanth]

i saw an advert for a 20Mb hard drive for the Amstrad in the Biggles issue of ACU and it mentioned it could network Amstrad CPCs.  Anyone know of this device and how it did the networking?

might save some time in research etc

[deepfb]

The spanish Amstrad Users Group (GUA) will carry out its activities in an entire classroom at the Computer Science building of the Universidad Complutense, during RetroMadrid (13th or March).
We will show a mix of old & new hardware: one 6128+ with SymbiFace internally attached, the Aleste 520EX (btw, I'm sorry but I didn't take the pictures for nocash yet), the Fischertechnik robot arm (jesus6128 is on charge of making it work this year, I hope he won't forget it :-D), one KC-compact, the CPC T-Rex board, etc. And of course, the latest software releases, such as Rick Dangerous 128+, Orion Prime and whatever cngsoft or other developers would bring to Madrid. We will also have, at least, two talks: 5alad (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=108n5oV57eo) will explain how to make music with old computers and Abraxas will relate us how he managed to crack games in the old times. And, eventhough it is not planned yet, MacDeath could do a presentation of Rick Dangerous 128+, if he wills :-). Besides, we will hold repair and 'preservation' workshops, aimed to anyone who wants his old computer fixed, or his old disks or tapes dumped to .dsk, .cdt or .tzx.

Regarding the issues discussed in the latest messages, AFAIK from experience, common visitors are more interested in recent hardware developments than in old hardware or new software developments. It's very difficult to catch the attention of them within a fair with ~5/6 exhibitors presenting their new games. Aleste didn't deserve much expectation when we first showed it last year, but SymbiFace, CPC T-Rex board and SymbOS running on a speeded-up PCW are fully documented in the pictures taken by the visitors. Also, the repair workshop was a great success, but hardly two or three visitors came with their tapes or disks to be dumped.
Thus, I agree with khisanth and MacDeath: new devices are what we need to catch the eye of the crowd!

[redbox]

I have been actively trying to get myself a CPC+ and cartridge for quite a while now, so that I can crack the ACID problem, but I haven't been able to find one for a reasonable price... yet.

Will a GX4000 do it?  If so, I will keep my eyes open for one...

[MacDeath]

I have been actively trying to get myself a CPC+ and cartridge for quite a while now, so that I can crack the ACID problem, but I haven't been able to find one for a reasonable price... yet.

@ Bryce : where are you living ? (don't remember...)

but in france it is quite possible to find a mundane GX4000 burnin' Rubber for 5 euros (+ post cost).

http://100p100.fr/index.php?action=fiche&address=0&CodeJeux=8738

http://100p100.fr/index.php?action=liste&address=645&pos_offset=
(use babelfish to translate those pages perhaps...)


I bought one there...
Because I was planning tu turn it into a Multi Eeprom...




Concerning the Madrid event...

I bought my plane tickets...
I'll be arriving the 10th march at somewhere before midnight (sorry, it was cheaper or else ist would have been on the early morning for me...)
I'll go back to france the 15th at "night" too.

If someone can house me a bit.


My problem : I'd like to bring some of my disks, but...I fear the custom put them into a X-Ray magnetic metal detector and screw them completly.

Do someone know about this ?

My problem : I have to install a proper 3"1/2 on a 6128+ (internal), perhaps adding also a tape on the same (or anoteher ? I have 3...)

And the 3" disk drive from the 6128+ would then be put in my PC...
Yet I have to check for the Power supply.

But ATM I lack a proper dumping solution, and my last 2 buys (6128+) were supplied with a nice amount of 3" disks, some of them still working...

So yea, I may bring a box of disk.

Yet do you think I could bring a 6128+ too (without monitor...)
I fear it would get badly hurt at the airport.

Is it possible to do some shopping there ?

exemple : I wish I could put my hands on a Konix SpeedKing...

Or some extra Hardware cards, adaptators and so on...


Concerning the Cartridges and "networking solutions" :

--Cartridges
Because it's better to get a sweet "multiEEprom" cart. the kind of the one we can see in the CPCwiki (was a spanish mod as Hermol told me).
I mean, this is the Rom and basic OS.

It"s shitty to have first to choose between Basic or fucking rubber, to load a more proper OS from this CPC old basic.
Of course...I have also the Basic cartridge (without the game).

And so on.


--Network :
I was thinking of some sort of a project...
Yet I would need better electronician than me.

Firstly :
Most networking is something like a serial connection.

I think it is far too limited.

Amstrads 8 bit need a proper "server" technology.

And more thazn a simple network, I was thinking of a device that would allow to conect 2 Amstrad acting as some sort of "Duo-Core".

I remember many Arcade cabinet featured 2 Z80 : one as the main processor, the second to manage the sounds.
(add to this a shitton of Roms and hardwired stuffs of course but this is another matter).

My Idea was :

A "card/Module" which would be connected to 2 CPC (betterly 2 PLUS, but a mix of a Plus and a CPC may be well too.

Yet instead of simply downloading/uploading serially strings of datas, they would indeed share a common Extended Ram banks pool.

I think It would need :

--a synchronisation sort of system.
--a device to be sure the 2 Amstrad wouldn't tap in the same Ram banks at the same time.
--a device to mix the sounds of both Amstrad (enabling if correctly synchronised, 6 sound channels (DMA in the case of Plus connected)

Only one monitopr would be needed.
Both Amstrad connect with extension port, Video port and sound port (if CPC old)
Andan amplifier/Hifi audio is connected to this box
A single monitor too.

A switcher  would allows to pass from one CPC to the other on the screen, just the time to launch the proper OS/software solution on each CPC (not at the same time)
A proper protocol is to be found then.

The idea is to get one of the Amstrad, PLUS is preferable in this rôle, as the "Video Card" and additionnal sounds manager.
Plus of course bcause of the Hardsprites and all the cool stuffs added.

And the other would not even display video, he would just provide properly data filled Ram banks, add it's sound facility, and do all the master brainstorming..

Yet I don't know concerning the Keyboard and game controllers management...which one would be more suitable.

As you know, Amstrad running at a bit less than 4MegaHrz.

The video is 50Hrz.

And modern Technology can achieve easily a far far far greater speed...
So the device to switch from one CPC to the other in extra Ram banks access may have enough time to do it properly, if only the software is well implemented.

You also get many potential awesomness.

a Z80 can run something while the other load a disk...

Mixing 2 CPC sound output may not be that hard.
Just getting those signals synchronised enough.


Also, perhaps the same may be achieved with the video output.
2 CPC running at Mode 0 (using both their 16Ko Video Ram per example)
then the Module may switch from one signal to one other in order to achieve a 320x200 resolution as it would display Half pixel from one CPC and one half pixel from the other, the timing has to be tight and right then.

This may then allow pseudo new-video-modes.

Also keeping horinzontal CPC, but doubling the vertical resolution (alternate rasterlines from on CPC to another) yet this would need a more advanced Monitor than the Amstrads.

But Hardwired sprites may be achieved only if 2 Plus machines are used, thus become 32x16 sprites (horizontal mix) or 16x32 (vertical mix)

Yet this would be quite heavy for a full use, as graphical Datas are to be properly splitted between both Amstrads.

Yet keeping it to normal Amstrad Video capability would be enough as a start IMO.





The plain result :
2 CPC/Plus turned into a 2x8 bit computer.

2x8=16bit.

Concerning the common RamBanks pool...well, 256Ko per CPC may be well enough (totalling 512ko, as a mundane A500 or Atari STF.


Many technical problems certainly exist too counter such an Utopia.

Mostly : can a CPC working fully as CPU and Data manager give enough power/advantage to counter-balance the delay involved by such Banks sharing.

Mostly with Action oriented games perhaps

Yet my main argument is : most Active Amstrad CPC/Plus users actually own more than only one machine. 


Why creating a hardware to increase only one CPC while a device mixing 2 machine may achieve even more with a good respect of the "direct from the factory computer" spirit.


Ouch, my brain.

[Bryce]

I'm in Germany, didn't need babelfish, but I do need more than the cartridge, I need the computer too. I was hoping to get a 6128+ for obvious reasons. I have an address in France too, so I have been watching both Ebay.de and Ebay.fr. I consider 59€ for a GX4000 too be a little bit more than I would like to spend.

Bryce.

[khisanth]

i picked up a 464+ without much trouble, but never seen a 6128+ on ebay at all. in fact seen more 664s! (i.e. only 1)

[ukmarkh]

Well I have a 464+ fully working for £25 if you want? Don't really wanna get rid, but you can add a 3.5" disk onto it and your away.

[MacDeath]

on CPC rulez we have a topic with interesting "petites annonces" listings...lemme check :


http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3837&start=75

I managed to find interesting prices not far from my home.

Perhaps one sold in Alsace would be great for you ?

[deepfb]

I bought my plane tickets...
(...)
If someone can house me a bit.

You already have accommodation in Madrid :-D; we'll even take you from the airport. What is not decided yet is if you are going to do a presentation of Rick Dangerous 128+. What do you say? ;-)

My problem : I'd like to bring some of my disks, but...I fear the custom put them into a X-Ray magnetic metal detector and screw them completly.
Do someone know about this ?

I think Nich took with him some tapes last year; he may give you some clues on how to do it.

My problem : I have to install a proper 3"1/2 on a 6128+ (internal), perhaps adding also a tape on the same (or anoteher ? I have 3...)

You can bring it here, and we will install the 3,5" drive for you. If you fear it can be damaged, you can take it with you aboard.

Is it possible to do some shopping there?
exemple : I wish I could put my hands on a Konix SpeedKing...
Or some extra Hardware cards, adaptators and so on...

As usual, there will be a second-hand stall. Visitors can bring the stuff they want to get rid of; they state a price for it, and the organization of the fair will sell it for them, overcharging the owner's price with a fee (5%?). At the end of the day, the owners get the money from the items that have been efectively purchased by other visitors. Also there are some shops that will be present in the fair, selling old and new software and hardware (Matra-Relevo and Retroworks are the more prominent, I think :-).
The problem is that you never know if you're going to find what you're looking for. I've seen Speedking joysticks for sale last years, but don't take for granted that you will find it on next edition :-/

[Bryce]

@MacDeath: Checked out the CPCrulez forum, couldn't find any Plus machines for sale though. Anywhere near Valenciennes would be best for me (Oui, M'épouse est une  'Chti' ). I'll add it to my list of places to look though.

Bryce.

[MacDeath]

Well, of course I can talk about rick Dangerous 128+.
But not in spanish, engrish and french only...

So yeah, I wil see to come with a 6128+ and a box of disk.


@Bryce :
your spouse being chti, she surely has a family in france.So if a cousin of brother sister can manage to get a Plus for youif a proper occasion appears.

Also perhaps peoples from the french amstrad community are in "nord"...I think Fano is from there.

Depn,eds also the budget you may spend.

30€uro for a complete 6128+ is good, but most are old at 50€uros...even more sometimes.