Let's say you have a CPC+ machine. You get to pick a multicartridge containing 8 cartridge-roms, and you have no other cartridges.
Which 8 cartridge-roms would you put into it then?
I would put
1) the BASIC one of course
2) Another BASIC one said to be more compatible with the standard machines
But that's about it. My knowledge about what options there are, are very limited. So what other cartridges would you pick and why
well, with those 2 official Basic, this let only 6 remaining slots. but as I already have those basic cartridge : the one with Burnin' Rubber, the one with only the basic with better compatibility (is it ?)
So i see few use to have them again.
Strange question anyway.
don't know...
for sure, not those shitty "direct disk to cartridge ports"...
==Pang, Panza kick boxing, Robocop2, Navy Seal, Switchblade, Plotting, Pinball Magic, Great Courts (ProTennisTour), Tennis Cup2...
Those are the games more likely to be chosen from, as they are the real deal, top tier depending your tastes in gaming (I like Pinball).
This is 9 games to be turned into 6 only... ouch. depends on what you like.
==Burnin' rubber being already present with one of the 2 Basic cartridge I guess.
==Perhaps Skeetshot and the enforcer too if you have a lightpen/lightgun fetish.
==World of sport is not good yet clearly a PLUS game.
Klax is nice too, but is as good as on disk.
Barbarian2 is perhaps even better on Disk (have the naked Maria patch/crack), and is just the same at best..
Same for Batman.
Mystical is a somewhat decent CPC vertical shooter after all, but on cart it has nothing more than the Disk version.
Op.Thunderbolt is not as good as Op Wolf, but hey, was a quite good CPC game to begin with...
Fire and forget 2 is somewhat decent, but only too few stuff compaired to the disk version... yet certainly the best Titus soft on Cartridge.
Tintin on the moon, Crazy Car2, Dick Tracy, WildStreet....shitfest and as bad as on Disk/tape... despite having real PLUS features.
No Exit = No way !
Copter 271 is unfinished bizness... it would need a serious Hack and get a decent 6128PLUS disk version IMO.
I guess I would put something like...
Pang, Plotting, PanzakickBoxing, Magic Pinball,
Then one of the Navy/robocop and one of the Tennis... probably Navy Seal and ProTennis Tour because I have the other 2 on Cartridge already...
or perhaps switchblade... but the CPC version is almost as good, the Cartridge version having only more colours.
Seriously, why such an odd question ?
The problem is because ACID was only hacked recently and because no actual newcartridge or solution was effectively produced, there are no modern software adapted to Cartridge on PLUS.
but a kool soundtraker would be good, also a powerfull graphical utility with management of PLUS, Mouse, rasters, multimode, overscan and sprites and some animation stuff would be great.
Text editor and assembler/various languages (C ?)could be nice, with sweet mouse management, Hardsprite for mouse cursor and so on...
Thanks for the suggestions MacDeath
All games? What about e.g. Parados? Or similar? Don't know what has been made, but surely something must have been made?
Or is everything MegaFlash ROMs?
The reason for asking, is that the 464+ mod project Bryce is doing (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/464-mod/) might have a 3.5" diskdrive installed where the cartridge usually is, and the cartridge slot will then be left inside the machine with a 4-way or 8-way cartridge inserted, without any options to insert another cartridge without opening the machine.
Shame you can't relocate the cartridge slot to the top of the machine and canabalise a GX4000 for the flaps and anything else you may need. I have to admit though I tend to just have the Basic/Parados cartridge in mine most of the time and just use the HxC.
The machine will have an internal MegaFlash, so ParaDOS and other ROM 7 ROMs can be installed and run from there.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 09:52, 12 June 12The machine will have an internal MegaFlash, so ParaDOS and other ROM 7 ROMs can be installed and run from there.
In that case, I must admit I'm inclined to just settle for a cartridge that let's me choose between the 2 BASIC versions. When everything seems to be done with MegaFlash ROMs and disks.
Quote from: MacDeath on 08:17, 12 June 12
or perhaps switchblade... but the CPC version is almost as good, the Cartridge version having only more colours.
The disk version isn't exactly lacking in colours though. The disk version is one of the most few Mode 1 games that actually has a colour count on screen higher than most Mode 0 games at times. I just took a screenshot and it had 17 colours at once. Mostly due to trickery in the score and status panels (which for some reason the cartridge version lacks) and even the main gameplay area often changes one of the colours as it goes down. The dark red sky colour of the disk version changes to brighter red for the ground tiles and then to yellow for the gems found in the far left screen of the beginning of the game. If you have the cheat mode on you can see the invincibilty sprite changing between those colours as the player moves up and down on that screen. The sword icon that appears when you start collecting the Fireblade pieces is strangely a lot more colourful on the disc version (a strange colour scheme of 7 colours) compared to the same sprite on the cartridge version ( Just the 3 but normal looking). Certainly SwitchBlade on disk must be considered one of the most 'colourful' Mode 1 games ever made. I do prefer the disc version overall though with the real physical versions of the game the cartridge version wins by loading a heck of a lot faster. :)
Sorry for going off-topic a bit.
I don't mean to suggest that this project should become anymore complex than it already is, however, could Bryce add more SRAM ICs selectable via DIP switches? That way you could have all cartridge software ever made. I was thinking about doing something like this with my new GX4000 mod. The thing that worries me though is that I may accidentally select a different ROM while the machine is running, which, is a big "no no" according to Amstrad, although I think Bryce has said this would not necessarily cause any problems. What I was thinking was I would build a daughter card onto an existing cartridge, or maybe forego a cartridge slot altogether, and have a set of DIP switches that would "set up" each IC and select each ROM address. This would mean that I would have no need to have an external Cartridge socket as I would have all existing cartridges built in to the machine. If something new comes along I could simply add more SRAM, or use up any spare space though this would mean opening up the machine.
My plan was to use a rotary switch to choose the ROM. These are usually quite difficult to accidentally switch. Unfortunately they usually only have 12 positions, which limits the amount of ROMs you could have. Swapping accidentally with the switch wouldn't cause any damage to the CPC anyway, it's only a problem if you were to physically unplug a cartridge that might cause problems. Turning the switch while the CPC was running would just cause a rather colourful crash to happen. Eitherway, I will be limiting the ROMs to 8, due to space more than anything.
Bryce.
Quote from: mr_lou on 07:02, 12 June 12
Let's say you have a CPC+ machine. You get to pick a multicartridge containing 8 cartridge-roms, and you have no other cartridges.
Which 8 cartridge-roms would you put into it then?
I would put
1) the BASIC one of course
2) Another BASIC one said to be more compatible with the standard machines
If you have 2) then you don't need 1)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 16:42, 12 June 12
If you have 2) then you don't need 1)
Are you sure? Aren't there any BASIC stuff out there done with that plus version, meaning it might not work on a standard CPC?
The Plus BASIC only has support for some RSX commands to start Burnin Rubber, else it's like the normal 6128 BASIC. In addition they screwed up Amsdos to implant these RSX commands.
In principle it would be enought to use the old Amsdos (but patched for Plus), so everything should run. It's out in the net, don't remember where now. (Maybe inicron.de homepage).
Quote from: Carnivac on 10:53, 12 June 12
... If you have the cheat mode on ...
How to switch it on?
Sorry for offtopic too.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:09, 12 June 12
How to switch it on?
Sorry for offtopic too.
Sorry I can't remember the actual cheat mode (something about entering a certain word in the high score I think) but some versions of the disk file have a trainer (or whatever those added cheat option thingies are called) applied. The one playable at http://java.cpc-live.com/applet/cpc.php?game=switchblade (http://java.cpc-live.com/applet/cpc.php?game=switchblade) for example has a version of it. Press the O key when it says Tricher O/N and Hiro is invincible and has that sprite following him about that I mentioned.
A good solution (yet not good looking) would be to put an ACID inside the machine, and a panel on the machine with a ROM socket and a few switches (jumpers)...
Some BBC micro for national education used to have a ROM/CPU socket on the machine.
So you would have a few "cartridges" inside the machines (a ROM box connected to the jumpers) and you would be able to put games/less serious stuff right on the casing's socket.
And no need for extra ACID then.
The 8way MultiCart and an ACID will all be inside the CPC.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 14:58, 12 June 12
My plan was to use a rotary switch to choose the ROM. These are usually quite difficult to accidentally switch. Unfortunately they usually only have 12 positions, which limits the amount of ROMs you could have. Swapping accidentally with the switch wouldn't cause any damage to the CPC anyway, it's only a problem if you were to physically unplug a cartridge that might cause problems. Turning the switch while the CPC was running would just cause a rather colourful crash to happen. Eitherway, I will be limiting the ROMs to 8, due to space more than anything.
Bryce.
A rotary switch? If you can find a really cool, heavy one it'd be very nice... Maybe pull one out of an old machine, this would be great.
Remember guys when I talked about a Chip socket available on the machine...
I found a picture of a BBC micro equipped with such device...
As the Amstrad 646PLUS lacks a few plugs on its back, perhaps putting it on the side or rear of the machine could be better than on the upper main casing.
Could really be good : a built in Rom board with open slot for new rom...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/BBC_Micro.jpeg/640px-BBC_Micro.jpeg)
not sure this one actually have a chip socket (looks steange, is it a cartridge plug ?)...
but this one :
(http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/New4OldPics/RetroClinic_BeebzifB.jpg)
yep... definitly
Chris's Acorns: BBC model B ZIF socket kit (http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/New4Old/RetroClinic_Beebzif.html)
Ah the good old BBC ROM socket, a real sign that they were aimed at schools.
@Gryzor: The rotary switch I was suggesting would be something more like this:
DS 1 - Stufen-Drehschalter, 1 Pol, 12 Stellungen bei reichelt elektronik (http://www.reichelt.de/Drehschalter/DS-1/3//index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=3283&ARTICLE=7186&SHOW=1&START=0&OFFSET=16&);
Eitherway, I think the question has now been solved. MrLou is tending towards less cartridge ROMs, not more, so it will most likely just be a 4way internal Multi-Cart.
Bryce.
A built-in, accessible ZIF socket. Awesome and geeky!
@Bryce: bah, that's a boring switch if I ever saw one, unless there are good-looking covers for it.
A ROM/RAM socket on the casing... the very good point is that the price for the thing you put on it is ridiculously lower compaired to a real cartridge.
Real cartridge need a PCP, some soldering process, a plastic casing... ouch.
But this method (socket on case) is geeky and can work in education (guidance from teachers) or with electronic/computer enthousiasts (they know what they're doing), not for large children public at home.
So it could be perfect nowaday. ;)
Could be a nice CPC6128/464 mod perhaps... :o
Quote
Eitherway, I think the question has now been solved. MrLou is tending towards less cartridge ROMs, not more, so it will most likely just be a 4way internal Multi-Cart.
I was a lot into "put games" solution because it wasn't clear Why would it be needed.
Sadly, the ACID crack is recent and "too few" (= none) solid PLUS specific applications exist.
Apps developpers are reluctant to get into the PLUS.
Arkos Tracker could have been awesome, also a cartridge based graphic app... and so on...
Fact is, the geekz here simply use a ROMboard connected on the extension port, so it is even CPC -old compatible...
I guess just putting the main available Basic variants is quite enough...
"Basic with burning rubber", "the one without" (more compatible as they said) and the Parados perhaps.
perhaps the "Test cartridge" too ? this one is definitely a good choice too.
4 slot being quite enough then.
Yet an accessible socket for the 4th slot could definately be great (despite not good looking...).
could it be put on the sides or the rear of the machine ???
It's not my choice.... MrLou ? Do you want a ZIF socket on the case?
@Gryzor: The switch has a standard 6mm spindel, so the choice of knob is almost infinite.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 14:30, 14 June 12
It's not my choice.... MrLou ? Do you want a ZIF socket on the case?
Um... not sure what it is. But if it's a socket for a chip, then no.
Yes, it's the green socket in the second picture of MacDeaths post above. I didn't think you'd want one :D
Bryce.
About which cartridges to select again.....
Are there CPC+ cartridges that just isn't available in disk form? Which ones? Because if such a multicartridge should be included, then those would logically we the most interesting ones.
For example, I can't seem to find Pang as a DSK file. Does that game only exist in a cartridge form?
No sure about Pang, but the diagnostics Cartridge was only available as a cartridge.
Bryce.
The guy who wrote pang sits next to me at work. 8) He only remembers developing it for the console...
Quote from: ralferoo on 12:24, 15 June 12
The guy who wrote pang sits next to me at work. 8) He only remembers developing it for the console...
Well ask him what the hold up is for the disk version then. ;)
Those Cartridge games were all supposed to be cartridge exclusivity...
But some of them are ports from the Disk/tape version... and to play them on Disk offer quite the exact same playability...
the only add-on are the graphics I guess.
Games that were released only on Cartridge :
=Robocop 2
=Navy Seal
=Pang (yet it have a Disk "clone", zapt n ball ?)
=Plotting
=Copter271
=Burnin' rubber (yet Wec le Mans can be considered its Disk version)
=Epyx World of sport : yet many Epyx sport games are available on disk and offer the same sort of mini games.
=skeetshot and the enforcer (need a light gun/light pen)
for the rest, in many case the Disk version is not as good looking :
=Op.thunderbolt
=both Tennis games
=Crazy Car2
=Fire and forget2
=Panza : the cart version use bigger screen, yet a disk version with PLUS features also exist (best of the best)
=Switchblade : play the same on both, just less colourfull on disk.
=Tintin is perhaps slightly better looking, don't know.
=Magic pinball : the disk version is in mode1 instead of Mode0+sprites.
=No exit : sadly this game is almost unplayable, but looks very good on PLUS.
=Wild street...
=dick tracy.
for a few other this is exactly the same game.
=Mystical
=Batman (the movie)
=Barbarian2
=Klax
Seriously what was wrong with Titus ?
they shat a lot of awfull games on the poor GX4000 it is even a crime...
they actually edited a lot of games, perhaps the editor who produced the biggest number of games appart from OCEAN...
And none of them were actually good.
=wildstreet is terribad.
=Crazy Car was a good CPC game, but already old when released on Cartridge and the gameplay didn't really aged well, as there is almost no road traffic or something.
=Dick Tracy : it even almost look better on CPC.
=Fire and forget2 : used to be a good game on CPC. but the console version could have used some better playability...
I wished Titus did release Cartridge/PLUS version of games such as prehistorik1, Blues brother and Titus the fox instead.
On the other hand, Loriciels managed to produce 3 very good games...
well, Copter271 wasn't really finished actually but hey...
Magic Pinball, Panza and TennisCup2 were great and exploited well the machine.
but it is a shame Loriciel didn't produced some cartridge/PLUS with Skweek and Disc (of tron) too.
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:07, 15 June 12
=Switchblade : play the same on both, just less colourfull on disk.
Stop saying that. It's plenty colorful in different ways as I already explained. The disk version, is in my opinion, superior in it's color usage.
you can't deny the Cartridge Switchblade displays more colour on screen...
Despite some of the sprite "tiles" seem to be coloured at random.
Not many more. I've explained there are times where the disk version technically even has more colours in use than most Mode 0 games. And yeah I don't much care for the seemingly random (and strangely coloured) tile variations of the cartridge version. And that red gradient sky? Nice for the first few screens but then you never see it again. Stryker in the Crypts of Trogan makes far better use of sky gradients (smoother too) and you see them much more often. I like that the score and status on the disk version of SwitchBlade are coloured better than the cart version and you see those all the time so yeah the disk version is definitely more consistently coloured. Is there any way the cartridge version could have at least used hardware sprites on Hiro himself to give him a bit more colour and look more accurate to the box art? That would have looked a lot better than the oddly coloured tiles.
both versions use colour well. on the cpc I really like the coloured sword, much better than the plus version.
I am sure for the plus they used raster interrupts which make colour changes so much easier, so technically the cpc version is better because of it's clever use of colour and things.
Yes, Hiro could have been a h/w sprite, perhaps 2 positioned vertically. Why they didn't do that? Don't know, perhaps they didn't have time or the space to store the images. Having sprites would probably take more cartridge ROM space.
I'm guessing the cart wasn't larger was because the cost of ROM was expensive, or expensive enough not to justify it.
So for switchblade all versions are nice.
As for other cartridge games, if the system had sold well, then we may have had much more games with plus features, and much better carts.
I guess initially, converting an existing game to cart was cheap. So that is why they did it. Making it just for cart was probably a bit more expensive. I am glad Ocean bothered to do that.
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:07, 15 June 12
for a few other this is exactly the same game.
=Batman (the movie)
Batman Cartridge version uses a softer palette than Batman disc, as you can see at http://amstradcpc.mforos.com/305097/2532928/ (http://amstradcpc.mforos.com/305097/2532928/)
QuoteBatman Cartridge version uses a softer palette than Batman disc
Ouch, those jpg picture don't help, and my spanish is no good, which picture is which version ?
Anyway, this can come a bit from the fact the PLUS doesn't emulate the CPC colours that much very well...
And... while at it, they really could have done a fare better recolour job.
just give me the tiles and sprites, an amiga500+ deluxe paint and 2 days and I can do it in 1989. :(
QuoteI like that the score and status on the disk version of SwitchBlade are coloured better than the cart version
You are right... the rasters for the status bar are badly used on the cart version... quite a waste of rasters actually.
Disk version was actually released after the cart.
So some improvements were perhaps done.
concenring the Harsprites used for tiles instead of sprite...
the PLUS "sprites" are not particulary easy to use as "sprites"... IMO they are more some sort of movable extra overlay masked tiles than sprites.
And I think switchblade use them a nice way... simply as extra coloured tiles.
Sadly their palette swaps are somewhat loosy..
And yep, Hiro could have used those sprites.
Crypt of Trogan is a further improvement from the Switchblade engine, sadly the PLUS doesn't really use Hardsprites because... those are heavy (8bpp... ouch) and being CPC/PLUS, the game use the RAM to store a lot of stuff.
But also the raster are well used on both CPC and PLUS for this one ("buggers at the crypt of trogan"...)
Pang use very good the hardware sprites.If I remember correctly,All the balls and the player are made with the hardware sprites.And they move very good.
Quote from: MacDeath on 13:20, 16 June 12
concenring the Harsprites used for tiles instead of sprite...
the PLUS "sprites" are not particulary easy to use as "sprites"... IMO they are more some sort of movable extra overlay masked tiles than sprites.
I have a game that is in development that uses the plus sprites as sprites. (animating character moving about) and they work well.
Yes there is a limited number of them, and yes it takes a bit of time to fill the ram with data.. but they are ok.
I wish that amstrad had not locked each sprite to a specific location in the sprite ram. if they had allowed me to say "sprite 0 uses cell 1" that would really make them much better, but they didn't. they locked sprite 0 to cell 0, and sprite 1 to cell 1 etc.
Quote from: ralferoo on 12:24, 15 June 12
The guy who wrote pang sits next to me at work. 8) He only remembers developing it for the console...
Ohhh please do give him a warm handshake, will you? :)
QuoteYes there is a limited number of them, and yes it takes a bit of time to fill the ram with data.. but they are ok.
of course they can be used as sprite, but to "refresh" their content takes time so you can't expect to use them like they are used on other consoles or C64 (yet those PLUS sprites are 16 colour while MSX1 or C64 have poor coloured sprites)
QuoteI wish that amstrad had not locked each sprite to a specific location in the sprite ram. if they had allowed me to say "sprite 0 uses cell 1" that would really make them much better, but they didn't. they locked sprite 0 to cell 0, and sprite 1 to cell 1 etc.
the ideal would/could have been to have something like a complete 16K VRAM chip for this purpose (inside the Asic or even aside...).
Sadly the ASIC is full of stuff and the ideal PLUS computer/console would actually need 2 ASICs instead of one (like, one for the video, one for the rest).
QuotePang use very good the hardware sprites.If I remember correctly,All the balls and the player are made with the hardware sprites.And they move very good.
the players sprites are somewhat not that greatly "animated" but nicely moved.
those PLUS sprites are easy to move, but the trickier part is to change the content (animation frames) in graphic Data, not to get them "moved on the screen".
But yea... being a slow process doens't mean it is impossible task.
QuoteThe guy who wrote pang sits next to me at work.
hey, it would be cool that we give him an interview you know ?
Like how it was at OCEAN, of were games developped on GX4000, all the Amstrad screweries, the tools he used and so on.
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:23, 18 June 12
hey, it would be cool that we give him an interview you know ?
...
Like how it was at OCEAN, of were games developped on GX4000, all the Amstrad screweries, the tools he used and so on.
Well, I can ask him if he's up for an interview (he's gone home for the day now), but from speaking to him a while back, I'm not sure he remembers most of the specifics as it was 22 years ago! From what he's told me the other day, he actually worked for Arc, so I guess the game was just published by Ocean.
Tools wise, he said by then he was using a PC with a Z80 cross assembler and downloaded the code to the target computer from there. He remembers they used a retail console with a cartridge they could download code on to, but he didn't know who made that. I guess probably Amstrad because it'd need an ACID chip, but it could have been proprietry to Ocean. He mentioned that he was still in contact with some of the guys he worked with around that time, so I asked if he could see if they had any photos or documentation from what they used for the GX4000, but he's not mentioned it since so I guess he hasn't spoken to them yet. I suspect though that a lot of that stuff will be lost by now though anyway.
One funny thing he said though is that they were 2 weeks late sending the game to Ocean because every time they changed anything, they'd play the game for another hour or so because they enjoyed playing it so much...
it would need the help of the usual interviewer we have in the CPC comunity.
We should gather a set of questions so I guess I would have to ask at CPCrulez and P&P or Phenixinformatique to have good questions.
Perhaps you should gather questions here too.
Average set of question would be like :
=first computer and how he came to programing
=where he worked/studies
=other games he did (if so)...
=teammates on this games, method of work as a team.
We should ask for sources codes he may still have (or some of his previous co-workers) or some tricks or methods he used (so we could understand the game betterly)
and so on and so on.
also what's his favourite beer...
Quote
One funny thing he said though is that they were 2 weeks late sending the game to Ocean because every time they changed anything, they'd play the game for another hour or so because they enjoyed playing it so much...
:D :D ;D
completely awesome.
Quotethe ideal would/could have been to have something like a complete 16K VRAM chip for this purpose (inside the Asic or even aside...). Sadly the ASIC is full of stuff and the ideal PLUS computer/console would actually need 2 ASICs instead of one (like, one for the video, one for the rest).
I think their problem in plus machines is the time of designing.The asic in the plus is bugged.Probably,because they no have time to test it.Or because they know the problems,but they no have time to repair it.The sdc separator is out of the asic because time scale preasures.
Alan sugar probably can't acept a second asic.He search a cheap computer.The example is the sinclair Ql.Big expensive machine.To expensive to Alan sugar->out.
The onboard asic ram 2kb is used for sprites?.
The ideal in any case.Is we need a amstrad gate array ula book : D.To made a clone with a superplus asic ..QuoteOne funny thing he said though is that they were 2 weeks late sending the game to Ocean because every time they changed anything, they'd play the game for another hour or so because they enjoyed playing it so much...
Two weeks more.And the pang became a legend with the chase h.Q 2. :) . Probably he made the best cartridge in the history of cpc+
Quote from: dragon on 13:28, 19 June 12
Probably he made the best cartridge in the history of cpc+
Yes he did.
find out what they are paying him now and how much we need to donate to get him coding on the plus/gx4000 again
@ralferoo: it's not required for him to remember everything, your post is good enough as part of an interview! Just start talking to him and compile a few of those? Pretty please? :)
@Ivarf: +1!
I'm not too sure that they didn't include the data separator etc in the ASIC because of time restraints. I think it was probably more likely that they didn't want to have two soldering processes for the main board of the 6128 and the 464. If the data separator and FDC had been included in the ASIC it would have been fairly trivial to solder a few wires and have a 6128 with only the need for a FDD and a pin header/ribbon cable.This wouldn't have necessarily been something your average joe with a soldering iron may have done back then, but if a fairly skilled electronics buisiness made the modification and undercut Amstrad by selling disk ready machines it would have been potentially bad for Amstrad. Not that the plus series really gained much traction in the market place in the end anyway. Having to source a fair few components for an albeit, still relatively simple mod would have a good barrier to this sort of thing.
The ASIC used in the Plus doesn't have the capacity or the pin count to support FDC and Data Separator functionality, they would have had to choose a completely different ASIC. I doubt the ever considered integrating them.
Bryce.
Arnold 5 tells about it IIRC.
If they had emulated the FDC etc (maybe in a more capacious ASIC) maybe they would have had to pay a royalty too so this would have bumped up the cost even more. I suppose when you think about it there are many reasons to keep the FDC out of the ASIC.
As well as that, the µPD765 was being sold by the tonne at the time, it was used in absolutely everything and probably only cost pennies.
Bryce.
Ohhh,i read a very old post in comp 8 bits group.Cliff explain,steve gane search implement hardware sprites collision.But the design ocupped 10k gates in the asic.(out of space limit).
So maybe the sprites are useless,because amstrad can't implement the true full desing of plus range,only a partial version of plus design :( .
Quote from: dragon on 01:58, 28 July 12
So maybe the sprites are useless,because amstrad can't implement the true full desing of plus range,only a partial version of plus design :( .
Not at all :)
- You still can use the sprites
- Collision dedection in software (Z80) can be as short as 100 bytes or so - and it's quick :) You can read all X and Y positions of the sprites from RAM (memory mapped part of the asic) and you know their size. So it's pretty simple. However I can hardly imagine that so much gates would have been needed.
Easily! 10K of gates for collision detection isn't that much, when you consider how many pixels need to be monitored. Each pixel would need its own gates.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:37, 28 July 12
Easily! 10K of gates for collision detection isn't that much, when you consider how many pixels need to be monitored. Each pixel would need its own gates.
Bryce.
Why not just comparing X and Y positions of all sprites to each other? Sure, you do have to calculate their size in X and Y too (16, 32 or 64 pixel). That's all you need.
Why to compare to pixel on the screen? What do I miss?
(Sprite collision is the collision of sprites right? Not background?!?)
In software yes, but in hardware these X and Y don't actually exist. It's just comparing bits with bits in real time. Hardware is lower than the lowest level of software.
Bryce.
Well, yes, but they do create X and Y coordinates in realtime, so why not using them. It's just a CP command ;) Doesn't matter, my knowledge about VHDL and FPGAs is very limited. :)
Quote from: Bryce on 20:37, 28 July 12
Easily! 10K of gates for collision detection isn't that much, when you consider how many pixels need to be monitored. Each pixel would need its own gates.
Bryce.
would it not be better to do some kind of xor. the hardware knows when it's clocking out the sprites and which has priority, so it should be able to do this and set a signal.
I think their problem is the old cpc cost down.Instead made the pre-asic with all crtc ppi stuff.And later reuse it to the plus.They can use a external ppi an crtc,leave these logic gates to hardware sprite collisión and other stuff..And later when is more cheap made a new asic with all integrated.The original gate array have 2000 gates,the plus 18000,but how many gates cost integrated the crtc the ppi etc...?
Agreed, for compatibility reasons ;)