Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone is interested in selling a C4CPC cartridge for the Amstrad GX4000?
Many thanks
Ollie
Topic moved.
Quote from: TheRealOC on 14:12, 04 July 23Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone is interested in selling a C4CPC cartridge for the Amstrad GX4000?
Many thanks
Ollie
Perhaps, it belongs on the price you will pay...
xesrjb
Quote from: xesrjb on 17:57, 04 July 23Perhaps, it belongs on the price you will pay...
xesrjb
It's not a good approach. :doh:
We can only pray for better availability of the device, with great pricing, and not for higher prices on the existing ones...
I'm also looking for (another) C4CPC but I will wait after it, hoping for a new batch from
@gerald one day?
Quote from: norecess on 16:53, 05 July 23Quote from: xesrjb on 17:57, 04 July 23Perhaps, it belongs on the price you will pay...
xesrjb
It's not a good approach. :doh:
We can only pray for better availability of the device, with great pricing, and not for higher prices on the existing ones...
I'm also looking for (another) C4CPC but I will wait after it, hoping for a new batch from @gerald one day?
I just want to say that the last one was sold at Ebay for more than 400 Bucks...
xesrjb
Quote from: xesrjb on 17:19, 05 July 23I just want to say that the last one was sold at Ebay for more than 400 Bucks...
xesrjb
Wow, are you serious?? I wasn't aware, it's extremely sad. >:(
It's seriously time we get another batch of C4CPCs (or any other clones able to run .CPR images...).
Quote from: xesrjb on 17:19, 05 July 23Quote from: norecess on 16:53, 05 July 23Quote from: xesrjb on 17:57, 04 July 23Perhaps, it belongs on the price you will pay...
xesrjb
It's not a good approach. :doh:
We can only pray for better availability of the device, with great pricing, and not for higher prices on the existing ones...
I'm also looking for (another) C4CPC but I will wait after it, hoping for a new batch from @gerald one day?
I just want to say that the last one was sold at Ebay for more than 400 Bucks...
xesrjb
*Searches back of cupboard*
Quote from: xesrjb on 17:19, 05 July 23I just want to say that the last one was sold at Ebay for more than 400 Bucks
If people can sell it for 10 times the price, it can explain that
@gerald was not hurry to build them to 1/10 of that.
Now, if someone want one for this price, juste PM me. I will ship mine and send the balance to him. It was his work.
Quote from: TotO on 17:56, 05 July 23If people can sell it for 10 times the price, it can explain that gerald (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/profile/?u=250) was not hurry to build them to 1/10 of that.
Supply and demand - if there is no supply, prices will go up but of course fewer will be ready to spend that amount. For 400 Gerald could probably sell a few but it would not become a standard. And if we would have a supply, nobody could sell it for 400€.
Quote from: xesrjb on 17:19, 05 July 23I just want to say that the last one was sold at Ebay for more than 400 Bucks...
I saw two C4CPC this year. One in Germany für 100€, one in Spain for 85€. This is not SO much more than the original price.
Quote from: eto on 18:38, 05 July 23Supply and demand
It is not a business. It is done on the free time.
Have a look
xesrjb
IMG_1543.jpeg
Plus: 25 Euros asked just to send the card. ???
Yeah I guess not even the seller expected it to go so high!
Quote from: xesrjb on 20:23, 05 July 23Have a look
xesrjb
Weird... I can't find that offer on Ebay. EDIT: just realised, that was last year.
Definitely a crazy price.
Just a few weeks ago it sold for 85€
Quote from: TotO on 19:10, 05 July 23Quote from: eto on 18:38, 05 July 23Supply and demand
It is not a business. It is done on the free time.
Exactly. That's why there is nowadays 0 supply and lots of demand. Gerald can't build them at the moment, which is totally fine, we just should not be surprised that it sells for more than Gerald offered it as it's such a unique piece of hardware with absolutely no alternative.
That it reaches such a crazy amount once is absolutely no indication on what would be a fair price if there would be a steady (even if slow) supply.
And since this was an auction, we can't even say that the person who sold it was greedy. He just offered it and people started bidding. A supply of 1 met a demand of a few (wealthy?) people. It's not even clear if this could happen again. The next one could go up like this - or stop at 100€. I once sold a software package where I hoped to get 10€ for and it ended at 110€ because there were 2 collectors bidding against each other. Would just one of them not have been part of the show, it would have ended at 20€ where everyone else stopped bidding. So although it looks like the market value of this package is over 100€, the realistic market value would probably be around 20€.
I think the seller could have offered it on a forum for a decent price. Instead, he opted to put it up on eBay for 99€, expecting to make money as there was no "buy now" option, but a standard auction. From there, I disagree with your reasoning. The goal was to make money, that's all.
Two years ago, a guy begged me to build him an X-MEM because he absolutely needed it...
A week after receiving it, it was selling for three times its price on eBay.
Soon, I have seen that X-MEM + X-MASS + MotherX4 + Centronic cable on eBay Germany :
https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/schneider-cpc-6128-erweiterung-x-mem-x-mass-board-wie-neu/2483941483-225-21192
179€, used ... I have sold to him, new, for 79€.
I'm sorry, but I no more spend my free time for those kind of assholes that are not at all into the CPC community spirit.
You are auto-penalised to agree with those practies.
Quote from: TotO on 10:08, 06 July 23Two years ago, a guy begged me to build him an X-MEM because he absolutely needed it...
A week after receiving it, it was selling for three times its price on eBay.
That's a dick move - scalping and totally unfair.
Quote from: TotO on 10:08, 06 July 23I'm sorry, but I no more spend my free time for those kind of assholes that are not at all into the CPC community spirit.
You are auto-penalised to agree with those practies.
What practices? There's no evidence that this guy intended to make a lot of money or that he cheated to make a profit. Sure, would have been nice to ask the community first, but we don't even know if he knew that the C4CPC was out of production. What you explain is a totally different story: He tricked you so he could get a financial benefit. That's just asshole behavior. And sure, even if he realises a week after he bought it, that he doesn't need it, he should give it to someone who needs it for max. the same price. 100% agreed. Or ask for your permission to sell it.
EDIT: And just to be clear: I never intended to say that this is good. It's just no surprise that the price goes up as it's a fantastic piece of hardware and some people are behaving crazy to get one.
I don't think anyone has an obligation not to sell things on ebay because they might make a profit. If you decide to offer it to somebody for a lower price out of community spirit, there's always a chance it will turn up on ebay next week.
I agree with eto that this is simply supply and demand. Whenever demand exceeds supply, the price becomes whatever people are willing to pay.
I'm pointing the fact that selling on eBay (auction) instead of selling for a good price into the community spirit (event, forum, ...), cause that situation. There is no problem of prices when it is done out of commercial sites between passionate people.
There's an assumption the ebayer was a member of the community and not just someone who temporarily got in on the GX4000 hype, played a handful of games then realised that they weren't that into it (or, more tragically, it's someone selling the possessions of a lost loved one).
Personally I'd rather my C4CPC went to a fan for a fair price, or I would if I was parting with it, but then I've seen people generously give things away only for them to surface on eBay a few hours later too.
Quote from: Anthony Flack on 05:18, 01 August 23I don't think anyone has an obligation not to sell things on ebay because they might make a profit. If you decide to offer it to somebody for a lower price out of community spirit, there's always a chance it will turn up on ebay next week.
Pretty much this. I'd love to get a CPC664 again for my own personal use.
But they're going at the cost they go at because they're hard to get. We can't control the price people sell their stuff for, nor should we. As said before, it's supply and demand. That's capitalism. Retro electronics have skyrocketed in the last few years, the electronics shortage hasn't helped the situation either but that's finally starting to turn a corner.
But if we don't like the price, nobody is forcing us to buy it. Wait for the next one and see how you get on.
But we're not owed 'fair prices' for being a fan. That's not how it works. If the seller wants to do someone a favour, that's at their own discretion. But that's as far as it goes.
Quote from: TotO on 06:41, 01 August 23I'm pointing the fact that selling on eBay (auction) instead of selling for a good price into the community spirit (event, forum, ...), cause that situation. There is no problem of prices when it is done out of commercial sites between passionate people.
Yeesss, you are right. But selling here for 100€ or 400€ on Ebay, it's a reason to think about, because your hobby must be paid anywhere.
I know, it is sad to think in this way...😢
xesrjb
> "As said before, it's supply and demand. That's capitalism"
In my opinion, it's a rigid (and easy!) way to view things.
I'm a user on cpcwiki forum for what? 10, 15 years? We are all part of the community. We do stuff for fun. I make programs because this is my hobby and I will never ask for money for that. That's the same thing for the people creating hardware: they are producing expansions for the Amstrad machines, and with the same spirit as a programmer, they assemble parts to create a product, at the best affordable price, to be shared into the community.
So, I don't join you when you say "it's capitalism". It's only about people outside this community; they are greedy, and they know exactly what they are doing. We should blame them for that, try to identify them and avoid sourcing them with great stuff that other people (this time, in the community) could benefit from.
I can already see what the future will be if all of that continues this way: there will be a "volatile, hidden" list of trusted users, and hardware makers will rely first on that list when creating a new batch of devices, before expanding publicly. Which would be super sad btw, because the Amstrad community is already so divided...
Finally, please take note that over the years I have been given some Amstrad materials/repair services here and there FOR FREE or at an indecent CHEAP price in the past (they know who they are, and I love them, and not only for that!). And thanks to their generous contribution, I was able to produce programs through the years, and continue to enjoy my hobby in the best conditions I ever expected. Really, this is the side of the community that I like and enjoy. Not that shitty capitalism-thing...
Quote from: norecess on 19:04, 01 August 23> "As said before, it's supply and demand. That's capitalism"
In my opinion, it's a rigid (and easy!) way to view things.
I'm a user on cpcwiki forum for what? 10, 15 years? We are all part of the community. We do stuff for fun. I make programs because this is my hobby and I will never ask for money for that. That's the same thing for the people creating hardware: they are producing expansions for the Amstrad machines, and with the same spirit as a programmer, they assemble parts to create a product, at the best affordable price, to be shared into the community.
So, I don't join you when you say "it's capitalism". It's only about people outside this community; they are greedy, and they know exactly what they are doing. We should blame them for that, try to identify them and avoid sourcing them with great stuff that other people (this time, in the community) could benefit from.
I can already see what the future will be if all of that continues this way: there will be a "volatile, hidden" list of trusted users, and hardware makers will rely first on that list when creating a new batch of devices, before expanding publicly. Which would be super sad btw, because the Amstrad community is already so divided...
Finally, please take note that over the years I have been given some Amstrad materials/repair services here and there FOR FREE or at an indecent CHEAP price in the past (they know who they are, and I love them, and not only for that!). And thanks to their generous contribution, I was able to produce programs through the years, and continue to enjoy my hobby in the best conditions I ever expected. Really, this is the side of the community that I like and enjoy. Not that shitty capitalism-thing...
I totally agree...
xesrjb
You're absolutely deluded if you think it's only outside the "community" guys, I'm sorry. Believe it or not, there is a world outside the wiki forum.
Amstrad Facebook groups are full of people getting valuations to sell stuff at the biggest profit they can get.
Don't get me wrong. I've had to pay over the odds for stuff, I wasn't happy about it but that was my choice. I've also had the privilege of being donated stuff or stuff sold exclusively to me because they knew I'd actually use the hardware or play the games.
But being a member of a community entitles you to nothing guys, don't kid yourself otherwise. People with items for sale or whatever are free to do whatever the hell they like once it's theirs to own.
Don't like it? Move to Russia! ;)
PS: I'm also a member of the wiki for a very long time (this account is my second one, I had an original one during the mid 00'' and somehow forgot the login and email address I regged with), does that entitle me to priority for buying/ordering or a discount on stuff or special treatment? Of course not. I have also supported new hardware and games too. But we don't live in a dictatorship where we can tell sellers what they feel the value of their product on offer is just because you disagree with it!
Of course, the CPC community is NOT limited to this forum, that would be a crazy statement to do. We all know other people on other forums/media and that makes the CPC community as a whole.
> People with items for sale or whatever are free to do whatever the hell they like once it's theirs to own.
Yes, but we are not talking of a XBOX controller we can buy at Amazon.
We are talking about hand-made devices created by their authors on their spare time, in a very, very, very low quantity, trying to please the few people interested in the product. They do amazing job to look professional but let's keep in mind it's not.
When I buy a XBOX controller, I don't care about the seller or who touched it last in Microsoft company before me.
When I buy a C4CPC device (let's focus back on the thread loll), I DO care about the seller because I know Gerald had to spend hours to create a new batch. Buying for cheap such a device and reselling it at high price is NOT correct, but of course, there is no a written rule, it's all about respecting the author's work or not (cf. "Gerald vs. Microsoft", it's not the same scale, do you agree?). And for most of those authors, they are often laying around in this forum, we know them directly/indirectly, hence the notion of "community" around here.
Going further with another example.
It's like if tomorrow, I release my game Sonic GX, available for free to everyone ; and 1 month later I see people selling Sonic GX cartridges for 100$ on Ebay. I don't know what would be my reaction, but I would probably feel cheated, and angry. I guess the same feelings apply here to hardware makers.
Finally, we can think differently on this specific topic and that's perfectly fine. :-) I'm expressing my view here, and I'm not asking anyone to follow me in the process of a better world :-) I take the full responsibility about what I wrote today, and I'm not claiming that what I wrote is everyone's opinion here.
5000th post on cpc-wiki to said thank you to everyone that I love on CPC around the world. There are still people who are part of a community where the passion for the machine, the fact of doing things with it and helping to keep it going, still exists today.
When I returned to the CPC in 2010, I was very excited to see how this machine was still present in the hearts of people who made it last during 20 years of absence for my part. I wanted to bring my stone to this building by participating in many software or hardware projects, without ever thinking for a single second that there must be money to be made. It's even quite the opposite, the recognition of the investment of time spent by others led me to do the same for 10 years!
I'm sorry to see that more and more people think money first and think that's normal, because it's not. Don't be surprised if the prices go up, as this mindset directly contributes to transforming the approach around this machine.
Again last week, I was offered to be payed for the margin made by the sale of expansion cards that I made 5 years ago. The idea of making money on the back of the work of others exist (C4CPC on eBay) but it is not systematic for everyone.
There are people who exchange or donate equipment, who help each other, who really share this passion around CPC and it is with them that I want to contribute, without asking anything in return. Hey, that worked during 30 years, why changing?!
Congrats for your 5th K post, and thanks for all your contributions and offerings!
In my mind the dichotomy we're discussing here is a false one.
Capitalism? Sure. Someone has the right to sell something he owns at the price be wants? Sure.
Do we have the right to criticize that asshole for benefiting this way off the good will of others? Definitely.
So I'm not even sure why the discussion took this turn, these arguments really don't apply...
Quote from: norecess464 on 01:24, 02 August 23Of course, the CPC community is NOT limited to this forum, that would be a crazy statement to do. We all know other people on other forums/media and that makes the CPC community as a whole.
> People with items for sale or whatever are free to do whatever the hell they like once it's theirs to own.
Yes, but we are not talking of a XBOX controller we can buy at Amazon.
We are talking about hand-made devices created by their authors on their spare time, in a very, very, very low quantity, trying to please the few people interested in the product. They do amazing job to look professional but let's keep in mind it's not.
When I buy a XBOX controller, I don't care about the seller or who touched it last in Microsoft company before me.
When I buy a C4CPC device (let's focus back on the thread loll), I DO care about the seller because I know Gerald had to spend hours to create a new batch. Buying for cheap such a device and reselling it at high price is NOT correct, but of course, there is no a written rule, it's all about respecting the author's work or not (cf. "Gerald vs. Microsoft", it's not the same scale, do you agree?). And for most of those authors, they are often laying around in this forum, we know them directly/indirectly, hence the notion of "community" around here.
Going further with another example.
It's like if tomorrow, I release my game Sonic GX, available for free to everyone ; and 1 month later I see people selling Sonic GX cartridges for 100$ on Ebay. I don't know what would be my reaction, but I would probably feel cheated, and angry. I guess the same feelings apply here to hardware makers.
Finally, we can think differently on this specific topic and that's perfectly fine. :-) I'm expressing my view here, and I'm not asking anyone to follow me in the process of a better world :-) I take the full responsibility about what I wrote today, and I'm not claiming that what I wrote is everyone's opinion here.
With this further explanation, I completely understand where you're coming from. God knows I agree with a lot of it. Although we should remember that Amstrad didnt exactly have a reputation for high quality electronics in the first place.
Reverse engineering has been around since year dot.
If there was more supply for the original product, clones wouldnt exist. But when it comes to certain products, once its gone, its gone and clones are the only way to obtain certain devices.
The C4CPC is a great device, I've bought one from Gerald before but it also cause some of the damage you talk about. The GX4000 was worth about a fiver before the C4CPC's existence and then the prices skyrocketed within a year or so. Who's at fault there?
It really is a double edged sword.
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 10:53, 02 August 23With this further explanation, I completely understand where you're coming from. God knows I agree with a lot of it.
It's cuddle time! :)
Quote from: TotO on 08:55, 02 August 235000th post on cpc-wiki
Woohoo! Congrats
@TotO . Time flies!
https://www.ebay.de/itm/235246244371
xesrjb
https://www.ebay.de/itm/166638678597
xesrjb