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General Category => General Discussion - Introductions => Topic started by: Gryzor on 09:22, 23 July 19

Title: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Gryzor on 09:22, 23 July 19
How about that?
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/simulant-retro-computer-usb-pc-keyboards-mice/coming_soon (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/simulant-retro-computer-usb-pc-keyboards-mice/coming_soon)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simulant/retro-computer-inspired-usb-pc-keyboards-and-mice-by-simulant



They look nice, but:


-no cordless option, which I find indispensable, at least for the mouse
-no mechanical keyboard
-no price tag


So unless it's cheap enough to have around I don't seem me buying one.


Thoughts? (other than the usual discussions about IG, scammers etc :D )
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: robcfg on 09:36, 23 July 19
They do look nice indeed, but they should be quite cheap, as they are regular keyboards.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 09:42, 23 July 19
Very nice keyboard  :o
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: HAL6128 on 12:50, 23 July 19
They say: "..will work both on original retro computers & modern PCs, RetroPie setups & FPGA/emulators."
Work on original retro computer?
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Gryzor on 13:30, 23 July 19
Oh yes I read that and then forgot about it. The video shows it running with an Amiga, I wonder how... too little info, really.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: TotO on 14:50, 23 July 19
Wrong layout. Just CPC skin over PC... Useless.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Gryzor on 15:00, 23 July 19
Well, yes. But I don't mind it - I was toying with creating a custom mechanical keyboard scheme to resemble the CPC but gave up due to lack of time - nobody pretends it's the real thing!
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: norecess464 on 16:18, 23 July 19
I will keep my Apple Extended 2 keyboards, thanks  :P (https://lowendmac.com/2006/apples-extended-keyboard-ii-sequel-to-a-legend/)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 18:56, 27 July 19
What I would really like to have is a proper mechanical keyboard in my real Amstrads  ;D
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Gryzor on 19:10, 27 July 19
What 8bits had a mechanical keyboard, really?
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Scarlettkitten on 21:04, 27 July 19
Quote from: norecess on 16:18, 23 July 19
I will keep my Apple Extended 2 keyboards, thanks  :P (https://lowendmac.com/2006/apples-extended-keyboard-ii-sequel-to-a-legend/ (https://lowendmac.com/2006/apples-extended-keyboard-ii-sequel-to-a-legend/))


Ohhh nice choice, my keyboard of choice is the adjustable apple keyboard. [size=78%]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Adjustable_Keyboard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Adjustable_Keyboard)[/size]
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: mr_lou on 06:17, 29 July 19
I'd like one of those CPC464 ones for my PC.

Quote from: HAL 6128 on 12:50, 23 July 19
They say: "..will work both on original retro computers & modern PCs, RetroPie setups & FPGA/emulators."
Work on original retro computer?

I used a PC keyboard for my Amiga 1200 back in the day, using a simple adapter. So why not.
Can't see how it should be possible with the CPC though.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 22:20, 19 November 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:22, 23 July 19
How about that?
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/simulant-retro-computer-usb-pc-keyboards-mice/coming_soon (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/simulant-retro-computer-usb-pc-keyboards-mice/coming_soon)


They look nice, but:


-no cordless option, which I find indispensable, at least for the mouse
-no mechanical keyboard
-no price tag


So unless it's cheap enough to have around I don't seem me buying one.


Thoughts? (other than the usual discussions about IG, scammers etc :D )
Hi Gryzor, thanks for posting this.

I am here to answer any questions or give more details if anyone needs them.

We've gone membrane mainly down to trying to keep these affordable for backers (we looked into mechanical but with custom coloured keycaps and different injection moulded plastics etc it really pushes the prices up high) so we went with a good quality membrane, I am a true believer in trying to keep these low in price - haha something I am sure Lord Sugar would of tried to do back in the day haha!! But in all seriousness I grew up in the 80s when our beloved home computers were all about good value.

With that said we aim to launch with a price of £50 plus postage for a combo of a mouse AND keyboard. This is about as low as I can negotiate it for the quality and also for using all the different coloured plastics and bespoke key symbols etc - if it looked more generic we could get them down cheaper but there is quite a bit of work in producing them for the factory.

And yes they are wired, again down to price and also I actually prefer wires just as I go through batteries too fast! :)

Also we've moved to Kickstarter due to community feedback, people seem to trust it more as full refunds are guaranteed if the goal total isn't raised - new links can be found here: https://www.simulant.uk/input/ (https://www.simulant.uk/input/)
(hopefully you can update the initial post link?? Thanks again)

I've also attached a bigger image of the CPC style design too. I hope it helps clear things up a bit but please feel free to ask any questions and I'll be glad to help - please back the campaign or click to be "notified" when it is live and help support it if you like the project. If you don't like it then I am really sorry and no offence was intended I promise!!
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Gryzor on 09:24, 20 November 19
Yes, I do understand the constraints; my comments were not a jab at the choices/quality, but merely reflecting my needs!

That said it does look very nice and it's also really nice that you used a font close to the original one!

Huh, the campaign page is down?

PS just took a look at your store, some interesting items in there :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 10:46, 20 November 19
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:24, 20 November 19
Yes, I do understand the constraints; my comments were not a jab at the choices/quality, but merely reflecting my needs!

That said it does look very nice and it's also really nice that you used a font close to the original one!

Huh, the campaign page is down?

PS just took a look at your store, some interesting items in there :)
Thanks Gryzor, yes I know you are definitely trying to help and I really appreciate it.
Yes we moved to Kickstarter due to community feedback, I've put the new link in my post above (edited in) so I wonder if you can change it in your original post? Thanks again :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Gryzor on 10:56, 20 November 19
Quote from: simulant on 10:46, 20 November 19
Thanks Gryzor, yes I know you are definitely trying to help and I really appreciate it.
Yes we moved to Kickstarter due to community feedback, I've put the new link in my post above (edited in) so I wonder if you can change it in your original post? Thanks again :)

Done :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: TotO on 11:08, 20 November 19

I think there is best to do with this sort of project by adding in example TAPE buttons symbols on it for emulators.
A good example of 464 custom PC keyboard: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14688.0;attach=25290;image (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14688.0;attach=25290;image)

Some feedbacks:
- The € symbol is not mandatory to be printed.
- The green home button is inappropriate. COPY is already ALT. (lets forget PC keys for the user)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 11:23, 20 November 19
Quote from: TotO on 11:08, 20 November 19
I think there is best to do with this sort of project by adding in example TAPE buttons symbols on it for emulators.
A good example of 464 custom PC keyboard: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14688.0;attach=25290;image (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14688.0;attach=25290;image)

Some feedbacks:
- The € symbol is not mandatory to be printed.
- The green home button is inappropriate. COPY is already ALT. (lets forget PC keys for the user)
Hi thanks for the feedback TotO - that is a fantastic idea! I'd be happy to add the TAPE symbols if users feel they're a worthwhile edition definitely.
The Alt button I'm unsure though, I don't want to completely forget PC users as some users will just want this keyboard hopefully to use for their PC just for its looks and nostalgia and not soley for emulators or CPC setups... But I am open to change key layouts and take a vote from the backers as I could be wrong.
The € symbol too, this was a way to initially get some sort of International layout established but I do want to also add stretch goals for German, Spanish, French and any other layouts backers may require if there is demand. So yes I am certainly happy to change things to please the majority and take votes from backers before production :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Gryzor on 11:25, 20 November 19
The Tape button is a lovely touch indeed!

As for the Euro symbol - I'm all for it, but on the other hand I wouldn't mind it replicating the £ symbol I had on my original CPC :D
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: TotO on 11:49, 20 November 19
I would like to said that ALT keys are already in green like the CPC COPY keys, not to change them by copy.
So, it is not required to change the colour of the home key and better to keep it in black.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: remax on 14:41, 08 December 19
Yay, tape keys !!
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 15:30, 08 December 19
Thanks, I'll take the feedback on board and keep it with other notes ready to further improve the product ready for launch :) I think the tape key extra symbols and home in black is definitely worth working into the design.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 09:11, 12 June 20
Ok guys we've finally gone live now with the Kickstarter for the Amstrad CPC-style keyboard and mouse. I've also put a note about the new "tape keys" idea too :)
I've also gone with a modified better and stronger design and full size keycaps which has increased production costs to £38,000 per design. So we've got a lot to raise but hopefully we can make this happen.

I hope anyone interested can support the project and thanks for all your help:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simulant/retro-computer-inspired-usb-pc-keyboards-and-mice-by-simulant/ (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simulant/retro-computer-inspired-usb-pc-keyboards-and-mice-by-simulant/)
Please spread the word :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: remax on 09:25, 12 June 20
Is azerty an option or not ?
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: TotO on 09:34, 12 June 20
Currently, the 464-like keyboard mock-up don't push me to back the project.
I like a lot the Amiga versions.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 09:38, 12 June 20
Quote from: remax on 09:25, 12 June 20
Is azerty an option or not ?
Hi thanks, if we can cheat a little simply swap some keycaps to achieve new layouts easily (such as a basic AZERTY but without the additional extra characters to the English layout) then we can offer this as the project stands, however I would like to also include the extra characters, so if demand is there then I will add this as a stretch goal along with other layouts. We will try to definitely add extra keyboard layouts :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: remax on 09:39, 12 June 20
Thanks for your answer :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 09:40, 12 June 20
Quote from: TotO on 09:34, 12 June 20
Currently, the 464-like keyboard mock-up don't push me to back the project.
I like a lot the Amiga versions.
Hi hopefully you will like the 464-style one more when we get the renders done of the new design that uses the Full height keycaps instead - as now it looks even more like a 464 with tall keys  :)  This will be published as a Kickstarter Update on the project hopefully soon. Thanks again for the support and glad you like the Amiga ones :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: TotO on 09:46, 12 June 20
Quote from: simulant on 09:40, 12 June 20
Hi hopefully you will like the 464-style one more when we get the renders done of the new design that uses the Full height keycaps instead - as now it looks even more like a 464 with tall keys  :)  This will be published as a Kickstarter Update on the project hopefully soon. Thanks again for the support and glad you like the Amiga ones :)
Sure, I have read you comment under the keyboard. It is more to let you know the feeling when going to the KS page.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 09:51, 12 June 20
Quote from: TotO on 09:46, 12 June 20
Sure, I have read you comment under the keyboard. It is more to let you know the feeling when going to the KS page.
Thanks TotO - I've put a bold comment at the top for now just so everyone knows they're full keycap height. And I'll get some new photos on their asap hopefully in a few days etc. Thanks again
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 10:08, 12 June 20
It's nice - obviously it's just a styling option for a standard PC keyboard so it doesn't retain the CPC layout exactly (which would be ideal for FPGA systems).


It would be good to see a unit with the final keycaps rather than the weird low ones.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 10:18, 12 June 20
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 10:08, 12 June 20
It's nice - obviously it's just a styling option for a standard PC keyboard so it doesn't retain the CPC layout exactly (which would be ideal for FPGA systems).


It would be good to see a unit with the final keycaps rather than the weird low ones.
Hi thanks for the feedback - yes the renders of the updated design with the full height keycaps will be coming soon :)
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: arkive on 11:24, 12 June 20
Umm, I'll pass. ~40 pounds for a slightly-styled KB of an unknown quality is an overkill. But that's me, there are probably quite a few people who'd go for it, this is the retro computing world after all.

But I don't think your target of nearly quarter of a million is in any way achievable on Kickstarter, for this kind of a product. Perhaps it'd be wiser to start with just one/two more popular designs (Acorn =/=popular), for both lower unit price and KS target.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 11:30, 12 June 20
Quote from: arkive on 11:24, 12 June 20
Umm, I'll pass. ~40 pounds for a slightly-styled KB of an unknown quality is an overkill. But that's me, there are probably quite a few people who'd go for it, this is the retro computing world after all.

But I don't think your target of nearly quarter of a million is in any way achievable on Kickstarter, for this kind of a product. Perhaps it'd be wiser to start with just one/two more popular designs (Acorn =/=popular), for both lower unit price and KS target.
Thanks Arkive - you could be right it is a very big goal to achieve yes, however unfortunately factory restraints on Minimum orders mean we can keep the cost down the more designs we try to produce. If the Kickstarter does fail then backers will get full refunds which is nice and no one loses out, we'll then attempt hopefully in another way as you suggest if we can. Let's think positive though and hope it gains traction :) Thanks again for your feedback, I'm taking it all onboard!

Another point to consider is that a keyboard that looks similar to the CPC is definitely not slightly modified in the factory's point of view, those different colours are a real pain for them as well as the different colour case to your modern "normals". So the price is arguably very good for a bespoke injection moulding of different coloured plastics like that...
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:00, 12 June 20
Certainly the Acorn design is going to be a tough one to sell - it simply wasn't popular. The QL one is also not really accurate except in colour, but it's not standing out. It might be hard to sell many of these designs to make up their upfront individual design cost. But maybe there is a Raspberry Pi RISC-OS community crying out for them (in which case they will want the native RISC-OS keycaps and arrangement).


Part of me thinks it should be keycaps for existing mechanical keyboards, but obviously then you have to pick which keyboard to put them in, as different keyboards have different key sizes.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: arkive on 12:13, 12 June 20
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:00, 12 June 20
Part of me thinks it should be keycaps for existing mechanical keyboards, but obviously then you have to pick which keyboard to put them in, as different keyboards have different key sizes.

This, plus maybe a set of decal stickers. Much more reasonable & achievable.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 12:35, 12 June 20
Quote from: arkive on 12:13, 12 June 20
This, plus maybe a set of decal stickers. Much more reasonable & achievable.
Yes that sounds like a good project - we didn't go mechanical due to very high production costs, but I really wanted to offer a proper injection moulded colour with stickers being a little bit of a cheap fix in terms of peeling off or getting them straight and such - wear and tear... But thanks again as these are good ideas for additional goals or projects.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:37, 12 June 20
Will the CPC version have the original CPC keyboard font (or close to, i.e., big and cheerful) on the keys?


Side idea / add-on idea: spare keycaps to allow a full CPC layout (mostly differences on the punctuation on the right hand side) for FPGA CPC users.
Title: Re: Simulant retro/new keyboards
Post by: simulant on 13:11, 12 June 20
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:37, 12 June 20
Will the CPC version have the original CPC keyboard font (or close to, i.e., big and cheerful) on the keys?


Side idea / add-on idea: spare keycaps to allow a full CPC layout (mostly differences on the punctuation on the right hand side) for FPGA CPC users.
Hi yes it will have the same/very similar font and the very cheerful large lettering - there is a higher res image of the design on the Kickstarter page about half way down. Good idea too for the stretch goal on the extra keycaps, I'll put it in my notes and check if it is viable.
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