Ok, ok I'm considering upgrading my 464 a bit. I don't have much money for such things though so what is the minimum I'm likely gonna have to pay for 128k? And what's the best method for loading disk games these days onto a CPC (i mean do you even still use disks or do you use form of USB stick thingy with tons of .dsk files on them. I'd really rather not have to use disks if I can avoid them. I'm not a fan of physical media these days).
So what are the best items for all that and how much would it cost me?
You could buy one of these:
AMSTRAD ,CPC 464,DK`TRONICS, 64k MEMORY EXPANSION,BOXED,INSTRUCTIONS,CASSETTE | (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMSTRAD-CPC-464-DK-TRONICS-64k-MEMORY-EXPANSION-BOXED-INSTRUCTIONS-CASSETTE-/271654894941?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item3f3fe4bd5d)
Then you'll have 128k
And then buy a HxC for DSK loading. (DSK files needs to be converted to HFE files first).
http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=18 (http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=18)
Quote from: mr_lou on 18:09, 05 November 14
You could buy one of these:
AMSTRAD ,CPC 464,DK`TRONICS, 64k MEMORY EXPANSION,BOXED,INSTRUCTIONS,CASSETTE | (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMSTRAD-CPC-464-DK-TRONICS-64k-MEMORY-EXPANSION-BOXED-INSTRUCTIONS-CASSETTE-/271654894941?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item3f3fe4bd5d)
Then you'll have 128k
And then buy a HxC for DSK loading. (DSK files needs to be converted to HFE files first).
http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=18 (http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=18)
A 464 would still need a modern ddi1 interface to use the hxc (unfortunately)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 18:11, 05 November 14
A 464 would still need a modern ddi1 interface to use the hxc (unfortunately)
Oh right, I forgot about that. Thanks.
Yea, the total cost becomes rather high.....
Cheapest option is to buy a 6128.
Quote from: steve on 19:22, 05 November 14
Cheapest option is to buy a 6128.
Cheapest and IMHO best option. :)
::) I'm gonna say this calmly...
I do not want a 6128. I am enquiring about giving some extra capabilities to my 464 that I have owned for 30 years and have a strong sentimental attachment to and that using it makes me feel pretty good and nostalgic and reminds me of times before life turned to shit. I do not like owning many things, and I certainly haven't the space for another computer and if you think I'd chuck out my 464 I have looked after well for 30 years and got me through some rough times to make space for a 6128 I have absolutely no attachment to then you are damn wrong. Now please just stick to actual helpful answers about adding extra memory and fast loading to my 464. Thank you.
Now now, calm down Carnivac. No one said you should buy a CPC6128. All they said was that it was the cheapest solution, and that's true.
I know exactly what you mean though.
It was exactly the same reason why I upgraded my own CPC464, with one of those 64k RAM expansions, in order to be able to run STarKos on my CPC464 so I could compose music.
Then I got the HxC, and had to have my DDI modified before it worked with the HxC.
So it's all quite possibly. It's just a bit expensive.
And it was great using it like that for a long time.
But as time went by, I got slightly tired of all the external parts, and not-so-stable connection between the RAM expansion and DDI.
Lining up the HxC + DDI + RAM expansion next to a CPC6128.... you're not saving that much space by upgrading your CPC464 rather than getting a CPC6128 instead.
But I totally get it, when you say that it's your CPC464 you want to stick with.
I'd recommend an x-mem. And you get a Flash ROMBoard as a bonus. Very happy with mine. It's about to be incorporated into my 6128+ Laptop :)
Bryce.
Right. And nobody told to get rid of the 464. And nobody can make me believe to live in a place that small, that not an additional CPC keyboard (464 or 6128) can fit in. ;)
So yes, as Mr. Lou told. Alternative: Ask Bryce to build it all into the 464 keyboard.
My original 464 from my childhood is still "virgin", but only gets taken out on special occasions (Usually enjoying some tape games). But I have a 6128+ as my most used (Modded to the limit :) ).
Bryce.
Quote from: Carnivac on 17:48, 05 November 14
Ok, ok I'm considering upgrading my 464 a bit. I don't have much money for such things though so what is the minimum I'm likely gonna have to pay for 128k? And what's the best method for loading disk games these days onto a CPC (i mean do you even still use disks or do you use form of USB stick thingy with tons of .dsk files on them. I'd really rather not have to use disks if I can avoid them. I'm not a fan of physical media these days).
So what are the best items for all that and how much would it cost me?
Quote from: Carnivac on 20:23, 05 November 14
::) I'm gonna say this calmly...
In your first post you said "I don't have much money" you did not say "I do not want a 6128", therefore the most cost effective way of getting an upgraded 464 was to get a 6128, I did not tell you to get rid of your 464.
I have my original 464 and it has been joined by many more 464s, 664s, 6128s, pluses, PCWs and NCs, so I understand your attachment to your 464.
Off topic completly I had a Multiface 2 that had that speckled screen effect because sometimes the 6128 rom was faulty, got the rom replaced and all was well.
with my original 464 I replaced its rom with a 6128 rom, add a DKtroniks 64K ram pack and the DD1 with floppy so had a 6128 in all but name, I do not recall if it needed the DD1 but just used it
How to convert a Amstrad CPC464 into a CPC6128. | Retro Computers (http://www.retrocomputers.eu/2012/06/25/amstrad-cpc464-upgraded-to-a-cpc6128-how-to/)
Quote from: mr_lou on 20:37, 05 November 14
Now now, calm down Carnivac.
I was calm. Hence the word 'calmly' in the first line. My original comment was much more full of frustration and annoyance.
I'm just a bit tired of the all the snarkiness towards the 464 I often see here from 6128 owners (or at least CPC owners with 128k and above).
Quote from: steve on 02:33, 06 November 14
In your first post you said "I don't have much money" you did not say "I do not want a 6128", therefore the most cost effective way of getting an upgraded 464 was to get a 6128, I did not tell you to get rid of your 464.
I've often said on this forum I don't like owning too many possessions as I don't like clutter and I like to keep things to a minimum when I have to move (I'm never really settled). It's one of the many reasons I've almost completely given up on physical media preferring to contain hundreds of games on a small memory device instead. Now even if I was to break that rule and buy another bulky computer (which would then likely need another desk to put it on adding more cost and taking away more space) and buy a 6128 and use it for gaming then what would happen to my poor 464? I want my trusty 464 to remain as my only CPC to game on. So yeah my question had nothing to do with the 6128 and everything to do with asking about add-ons for the 464. I don't want a 6128, I don't want a Plus or anything. Just 464-compatible add-ons.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:24, 05 November 14
I'd recommend an x-mem. And you get a Flash ROMBoard as a bonus. Very happy with mine. It's about to be incorporated into my 6128+ Laptop :)
Bryce.
I tried reading the X-Mem topic but I couldn't make much sense of any of it or find the cost. Also where does it plug in and does it stick out the back too much (limited desk space). I don't really know what a Flash ROMBoard is.
You don't have much money AND you don't like clutter, get a 6128.
(http://images55.fotosik.pl/517/313246339cea55bamed.jpg)
...
I have added a picture to my previous post to show you what an upgraded 464 looks like.
(http://images55.fotosik.pl/517/313246339cea55bamed.jpg)
And what is all that? And actually that stuff can fit on my desk fine.
It doesn't matter anyways. I do not want a 6128. Please just understand that. I actually love using my 464 and a large part of that is because I've had it for most of my life. I don't know why it's so hard to get help here to a question I actually asked...
You can upgrade your 464 but it costs money you say you don't have.
memory expansion: Dk'Tronics 64k or 256k hard to find and expensive, best option is X-Mem and mother x4.
DDI-! clone made by piotr as well as an adaptor to plug it into the mother x4, I do not know the cost of these items.
HXC 2001 about £80.
maybe £200 to £300 altogether.
Ok cool. I don't expect to do it all in go (I'll potentially have a lot more money next year when some of my projects finally get completed and hopefully bringing in the money). Let's start with the memory. I think the X-Mem will probably be first. What's "mother x4" mean?
Mother X4 is a 4 slot motherboard that X-Mem plugs into, you would use 1 slot for x-mem and another slot for the DDI clone adaptor board, leaving two slots for other expansion posibilities.
Quote from: steve on 13:16, 06 November 14
Mother X4 is a 4 slot motherboard that X-Mem plugs into, you would use 1 slot for x-mem and another slot for the DDI clone adaptor board, leaving two slots for other expansion posibilities.
What if I don't need other expansions? Is there a mother x2? And does the X-Mem need the mother thing to even connect to the CPC to begin with or is the mother just for additional expansions?
Quote from: Carnivac on 13:18, 06 November 14
What if I don't need other expansions?
There is a new sound card that adds 6 additional sound channels, new software may be wriitten to use it, you have the option to use a spare slot for it in future.
QuoteIs there a mother x2? And does the X-Mem need the mother thing to even connect to the CPC to begin with or is the mother just for additional expansions?
No, Yes and No.
Quote from: Carnivac on 12:57, 06 November 14
And what is all that? And actually that stuff can fit on my desk fine.
The first board is the X-Mem, the second board is the playcity (6 channel sound card + interrupts) the last board is the DDI clone with lead going to the HxC 2001.
Quote from: steve on 13:32, 06 November 14
There is a new sound card that adds 6 additional sound channels, new software may be wriitten to use it, you have the option to use a spare slot for it in future.No, Yes and No.
Not strictly true. You can connect a x-mem with just a ribbon cable and 2 connectors but this way provides no through connector for the ddi1.
So yes you can connect it as is without the mother 4x, but you will need the mother 4x once you have the ddi1 as well.
Using a 464 V3 mainboard, it is possible to add an internal expansion port and plug a X-MEM inside.
So, the DDI-1 can be plugged alone on the external expansion port and keep the desktop clean.
Quote from: Carnivac on 13:18, 06 November 14
What if I don't need other expansions? he mother just for additional expansions?
But you will need:
- PlayCity (enhanced GFX, SFX and more more more)
- Mass Storage Device
- Mini-Booster to finally get stuff from the PC in a decent way
Uups... You need an X5 ;-)
For about 60€ you could get:
An X-MEM MX4 Board
A MotherX4 512KB ROM board (no RAM expansion)
A Mini-Booster
For 10€ more you could have an X-MEM with 512KB ROM/512KB RAM
And for about 5€ more you could get the mini-booster with a blutooth module.
Now, the interesting part, what I think you could do with that...
1) You should ask specifically to ship your X-MEM board with SNArkos ROM from the Arkos ROM Pack flashed in, as am I'm not sure whether there is a way to flash ROMS to the X-MEM through the Mini-Booster, if that were the case this first pre-requisite wouldn't be needed.
Besides this, you could also ask for other ROMS of your interest. There is also a list of games ported to ROM in the CPCWiki, you could take a look there, but I don't know if the guys from centpoucent would be willing to do you the favour of burning a long list of ROMS for you prior to shipping.
2) Once with this, you could use the SNArkos ROM to transfer snapshots from a PC to the CPC, either via bluetooth (if you bought the bluetooth module), or via USB cable. This way you might be able to play to many games that only make use of 64KB, and *maybe* some of them that use 128KB ONLY IF you bought the 512KB ROM/512KB RAM X-MEM.
Cons./Limitations of this method
1) You should use the PC/laptop as a loader each time you'd want to load a game this way (via snapshot, for the ROM ported games it'd be much faster of course)
2) Games that make use of the 3.5" drive to load levels will not work. Also if the game has the option to save the game state to the 3.5" it won't work.
3) All this is theory, you might encounter *unsolvable* incompatibilities.
If i have understood right, there are many "massive storage" solutions planned for 2015, perhaps is a good idea to buy the x-mem, and wait for this solutions to come?
Quote from: Joseman on 23:24, 06 November 14
If i have understood right, there are many "massive storage" solutions planned for 2015, perhaps is a good idea to buy the x-mem, and wait for this solutions to come?
Getting an x-mem is always good. And the 512k rom gives you the ability for instant loading whilst waiting for the mass storage devices to come.
With the direct SD Card access on the HxC through Symbos the mass storage is coming.
Craig
Quote from: CraigsBar on 23:28, 06 November 14
With the direct SD Card access on the HxC through Symbos the mass storage is coming.
this is not the problem, who has a Symbiface (like me) has a mass storage solution, the problem is the ROM perfectly merged with AMSDOS for high compatibility, plus the modification of games that disconnect or overwrite the roms memory (#a600 and so on).
The solution is a good ROM and fat32 implementation for this mass storage solutions, and, i think that is in development with this new massive storage solutions...
No massive storage solution is going to be compatible with 100% of disc games.
1) Games that make use of the 3.5" floppy drive to load data after initial loading are not going to be compatible with any massive storage solution
2) Games that load/save states to disc also won't, unless they use the firmware to do that, which I believe it's not the usual case.
3) Any disk-protected game isn't going to load from a massive storage solution, you should look for the unprotected/cracked version if available.
The alternative I propose doesn't solve 1) and 2), but at least can deal with 3), you can always load the protected game in an emulator and take a snapshot in the main screen.
4) Oh, and I forgot, no massive storage solution is going able to load tape games unless they have been previously converted to disk. But you can always take a snapshot in an emulator.
Quote from: opqa on 23:38, 06 November 14
No massive storage solution is going to be compatible with 100% of disc games.
in fact, only with luck, the 1% of disc games, will work...
The vast majority reset the rom block and enable only amsdos, or overwrite the firmware block, or overwrite the space of the expansion rom (the rom that will path amsdos), everyone has to know and be clear about, it's needed to rework ALL the games and his loaders to work with ANY massive storage solution.
In the last months i learned a lot of tape loaders to transfer games to disk, and i will learn more, i've made several games to work with massive storage expansions (present and future). And other people will do the same with the games that they like to work with this storages... Is the only solution for this games and this massive storage solutions.
For me snapshots are not valid, i want the games with his loading screens and the code intact, with snapshots you don't have this and throw away all the multiload games (unforgivable), no, this is the wrong solution. I you want the best for your CPC, it will cost time for you, I spent months fighting with loaders and copy protections, but the games that i like will work with this massive storage solutions, I promise!
it's my opinion...
Maybe, but we are talking about Carnivac's case, with its constraints. I just propose the option, he'll decide if it suits his needs.
Quote from: opqa on 23:38, 06 November 14
4) Oh, and I forgot, no massive storage solution is going able to load tape games unless they have been previously converted to disk. But you can always take a snapshot in an emulator.
The DivIDE 2K11 for the Spectrum can load TAP files from a CF card, so tape loading should be possible. Not sure how it is done though.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 09:29, 07 November 14The DivIDE 2K11 for the Spectrum can load TAP files from a CF card, so tape loading should be possible. Not sure how it is done though.
I think it just loads the binary data into memory somehow.
Having tried the 2k11, all Z80 images instantly starts up, but the TAP images doesn't. After selecting a TAP file, you have to manually type LOAD"" in the standard startup screen before it starts.
Yes, but that still means that there is some on-the-fly conversion being done directly on the 2K11 doesn't it? This could be done for the CPC too.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 09:48, 07 November 14Yes, but that still means that there is some on-the-fly conversion being done directly on the 2K11 doesn't it?
I wouldn't know. With my limited knowledge, I could guess that the LOAD"" command on the ZX Spectrum calls a routine that loads from tape - but stops when a certain bit somewhere is set. So the 2k11 could theoretically just put all the data as loaded, and with the bit set. This would result in the game starting up instantly after calling LOAD""
Quote from: Bryce on 09:48, 07 November 14This could be done for the CPC too.
I love such statements. Gimme more like those. :)
Aw heck, I go perform a show for the night and come back and this has all gone super techy confusing for me. ???
I will grab the bits that stood out for me for the moment while trying to make sense of things. :)
Quote from: Joseman on 23:24, 06 November 14
If i have understood right, there are many "massive storage" solutions planned for 2015, perhaps is a good idea to buy the x-mem, and wait for this solutions to come?
Ok so I've managed to decide so far is that I need an X-Mem first and leave the storage til later. But even choosing what optional features on it is a puzzle it seems.
Quote from: opqa on 22:59, 06 November 14
For about 60€ you could get:
An X-MEM MX4 Board
A MotherX4 512KB ROM board (no RAM expansion)
A Mini-Booster
For 10€ more you could have an X-MEM with 512KB ROM/512KB RAM
And for about 5€ more you could get the mini-booster with a blutooth module.
That sounds doable.
Quote from: opqa on 22:59, 06 November 14
1) You should ask specifically to ship your X-MEM board with SNArkos ROM from the Arkos ROM Pack flashed in, as am I'm not sure whether there is a way to flash ROMS to the X-MEM through the Mini-Booster, if that were the case this first pre-requisite wouldn't be needed.
Besides this, you could also ask for other ROMS of your interest. There is also a list of games ported to ROM in the CPCWiki, you could take a look there, but I don't know if the guys from centpoucent would be willing to do you the favour of burning a long list of ROMS for you prior to shipping.
And this is where it gets confusing again. I don't what what Arkos or Snarkos is. All I understanding about this ROM thing is that you can transfer games to it to load up instantly like a cartridge (or like how BASIC is there immediately when you switch on the CPC?). How do you choose which game to load from the ROM?
Quote from: TotO on 20:48, 06 November 14
Using a 464 V3 mainboard, it is possible to add an internal expansion port and plug a X-MEM inside.
So, the DDI-1 can be plugged alone on the external expansion port and keep the desktop clean.
How do I know which 464 I have? 8) And is this something that requires techy skills like soldering and stuff?
Quote from: Carnivac on 11:13, 07 November 14
How do I know which 464 I have? 8) And is this something that requires techy skills like soldering and stuff?
No but you have to open the 464, the version is printed on the pcb.
cpc models on cpcwiki:
Mainboard Versions - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Mainboard_Versions)
Quote from: Joseman on 13:28, 07 November 14
No but you have to open the 464, the version is printed on the pcb.
cpc models on cpcwiki:
Mainboard Versions - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Mainboard_Versions)
Ah never mind. It says on the version 3 that the joystick and sound output bit were moved to the left. Mine are on the back.
Quote from: mr_lou on 09:40, 07 November 14
Having tried the 2k11, all Z80 images instantly starts up, but the TAP images doesn't. After selecting a TAP file, you have to manually type LOAD"" in the standard startup screen before it starts.
Quote from: Bryce
Yes, but that still means that there is some on-the-fly conversion being done directly on the 2K11 doesn't it? This could be done for the CPC too.
Maybe a silly question, but if you have to wait, What's the point? No special hardware needed, just connect your mobile phone to a tape adapter or use a tape mp3 adapter with SD card reader integrated...
QuoteAnd this is where it gets confusing again. I don't what what Arkos or Snarkos is. All I understanding about this ROM thing is that you can transfer games to it to load up instantly like a cartridge (or like how BASIC is there immediately when you switch on the CPC?). How do you choose which game to load from the ROM?
Your understanding is right about the ROM's, just forget about SNArkos for a moment. X-MEM is a card in which you can "put" ROMS, this ROMS can be games (there is a list of games "converted" to run from ROM here (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ROM_List)) or "utilities".
The "problem" with your CPC is the following, you get your X-MEM and you want to start "putting" all this ROMS in it. How do you do it? Do you guess? Yes, the "standard" way is... via disk, which you don't have. When you buy an X-MEM they ship it to you with a 3.5" or 3" disk with the basic utilities to manage ROMS. Usually, to add new ROMs you put the .rom file in disc, load the utility, and use it to "upload it" to the X-MEM from the same CPC.
When I first wrote my message I thought that you had no way to transfer ROMS to the X-MEM, but since them a new idea has come to my mind.
*Maybe*, there is a way to transfer ROMs to the X-MEM via a tape. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to transfer the X-MEM utilities to a tape and load them from there somehow, what I don't know is whether this utilities would be able to grab the .rom file from also from the tape instead of disk. If they use the firmware chances are they'll be. It would be a painfully slow transfer, but you would only have to do it once for each ROM. Unfortunately I don't have the hardware so I can't tell you for sure whether this is possible or not. If it is possible then you'd have enough to begin with just the X-MEM, you don't need the MiniBooster neither the MX4, just ask for the appropriate cable to connect it directly to the expansion slot of your CPC (there are 2 different types).
On the other side, the MiniBooster is a hardware which lets you to establish communication between a CPC and a PC in a fast way, via a serial port. And finally SNArkos is just a ROM, a ROM that has the ability to receive emulator snapshots from a PC via the MiniBooster and execute them on the real CPC. So you can load any game in an emulator, take a snapshot and send it to the CPC very fast via the MiniBooster to execute it. When I thought you didn't have any way to transfer ROMS by yourself to the X-MEM, I considered this was the only way you could use it. That's the reason I told you to ask the people who sell it to ship it with some pre-selection of ROMS already loaded. But it would be much better if you find a way to transfer any ROM you want by yourself.
Oh ok. Hm. Yeah no disks. Maybe when I order a x-mem I can ask for certain fave games to be on it so I don't have to? (I just checked the list and most of my fave games aren't on it).
When you say serial port on the minibooster, is that serial needed on the cpc or the pc? Cos my pc is a laptop with no serial port. Is all USB these days.
Quote from: Joseman on 23:34, 06 November 14
this is not the problem, who has a Symbiface (like me) has a mass storage solution, the problem is the ROM perfectly merged with AMSDOS for high compatibility, plus the modification of games that disconnect or overwrite the roms memory (#a600 and so on).
The solution is a good ROM and fat32 implementation for this mass storage solutions, and, i think that is in development with this new massive storage solutions...
Right! We need that for Amsdos / Firmware. It's nice if Symbos can do it, but where's the gain? The HxC can already use DSK images.
Quote from: Joseman on 23:48, 06 November 14in fact, only with luck, the 1% of disc games, will work...
Well, I don't know what you're using. But as a matter of fact about 90% of my games run with the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc. I put all my favorite games on a 5 MB partition and they work like a charm.
what rom are yo using? bonnydos? what version?
in my experience, the games that works are tinny games or games firmware friendly... and there isn't that much...
No, I'm using the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc with 20 MB (4 partitions of 5 MB) and X-DDOS.
Never touched Bonnydos and will not do, it's compatible to .... not much. And this would be for the SF2 anyway, not the HD20.
See here:
Dobbertin Harddisc - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Harddisc)
i see... what format for HD is used? X-ddos patchs amsdos drive calls?
Quote from: Joseman on 20:21, 07 November 14
i see... what format for HD is used? X-ddos patchs amsdos drive calls?
Yes, the disc firmware is patched, so it can be used like a floppy drive. Including RSX commands etc.
Format? Well, it has 17 sectors per track, each 512 bytes long, 4 cylinders, don't remember the number of tracks now... Like an XT hard disc, it's MFM.
Quote from: Carnivac on 16:48, 07 November 14
When you say serial port on the minibooster, is that serial needed on the cpc or the pc? Cos my pc is a laptop with no serial port. Is all USB these days.
Nope, I told you, there are both USB-serial and Bluetooth serial adapters for that really cheap. The MiniBooster comes with a USB one and for 5€ more you can get the bluetooth module that you can plug directly in the same MiniBooster. The PC automatically detects this adapters (they use standard protocols) and create a virtual COM port you can use with any COM friendly software.
There is also another possibility to transfer ROMS to the X-MEM in a fast way via the minibooster. The Arkos ROM pack also includes a utility to transfer files from PC to disk. And the X-MEM with RAM expansion creates a kind of RAM drive compatible with the firmware to some extent.
You might be able to use both features to transfer ROM files via the minibooster to the RAM C drive and the upload them to a ROM slot from there. But I see all this combination more difficult to work. This utilities were not designed to work together and there will probably be problems at some stage.
Anyhow, if this utilities don't work together, maybe with access to the code and some small tweaking they could be fixed.
To complete, I have been investigating how the X-MEM gets programmed and making some tests within emulators and I've arrived to the following conclusions:
1) It should be perfectly possible to upload any ROM to the X-MEM via tape. But to make your life easier you should ask them send it to you configured with the original 464OS and for your keyboard layout. The "default" X-MEM config replaces the OS with another one that disables tape loading and adds this "|C" RAM drive. You could do this by yourself also via tape, but better if it gets shipped to you with the "right" config.
2) The other possibility, transferring files to this "C" drive via the MiniBooster using the Arkos ROM, as I feared it's not possible, the Arkos ROM is not compatible with the X-MEM's "|C" RAM drive. It shouldn't be difficult to code a utility to transfer files to this |C drive (or any other) from the PC via the MiniBooster, but I think that such utility doesn't exist yet. If someone is interested such utility would be really useful to any MiniBooster owner. Not just CPC464 owners.Quote from: Carnivac on 16:48, 07 November 14(I just checked the list and most of my fave games aren't on it).
You might find some more in this thread:
Converting a game to ROM - and LOTS of ROM files inside! (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=7854.msg60349#msg60349)
An also, any game you can find in this ftp folder (and sub-folders), should be convertible to ROM:
ftp://amstrad:amstrad@amstrad.serveftp.com/Webs/Compactados por cngsoft/Their particularity is that they have been cracked/modified to run from a single file. This are the kind of games that might be easily executed from future, past or present massive storage solutions, or from ROM, of from anywhere.
Right, this is an interesting discussion, please allow me to butt in in a somewhat off-topic way (I feel it's better than starting a new thread)
[ot]This is a classing instance where members misunderstand each other. Knowing (sort of) Carnivac I understood from the first post he didn't want to get a new machine but rather stick with his current one. He was also pretty clear, as in "upgrading the 464", not "getting a more powerful CPC".
That said, the same question has been asked before in the context of "how I get more functionality" and the answer is, sensibly enough, "with a 6128". So the next users were right in following that logic, especially after seeing other similar posts, and suggesting that path.
So, in essence, people misunderstood Carnivac; and Carnivac, in turn, misunderstood why people replied that way.
So, I'd say, please be a little more patient and inquiring, people. That's all.[/ot]
Also, @Carnivac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=50) , it'd be well worth it going over the CPCWiki and the CentPourCent (http://www.centpourcent.net/) material and also the relevant threads here on the forum, much info is available to help you out :)
Quote from: opqa on 21:36, 07 November 14
<snip>
You might be able to use both features to transfer ROM files via the minibooster to the RAM C drive and the upload them to a ROM slot from there. But I see all this combination more difficult to work. This utilities were not designed to work together and there will probably be problems at some stage.
Anyhow, if this utilities don't work together, maybe with access to the code and some small tweaking they could be fixed.
They do work together very well, Obviously however your X-Mem needs to be configured with a Silicon disc (either 256 or 444k work fine)
the second requirement is the ARKOS rom in a slot lower than 7, and AmsDOS or ParaDOS are required. In order to load the files from the |C drive you require the AmsDOS versions of the load and run etc, otherwise loading from |C will result in "Press Play then any key"
Once these 2 requirements are met then these 2 tools work perfecty together.
Method.
1. Copy your game roms into the AFT directory on the PC/MAC
2. Run AFT on the PC/MAC
3. On the CPC change to the Silicon Disc: |C
4. Get File from the PC/MAC to the Silicon disc on the CPC eg: |GF FILENAME.ROM
5. Flash the rom into your x-mem eg: |FLASH,"FILENAME.ROM",10
A simple reset will leave the .ROM file on the Silicon disc, a full power off and restart will clear it.
As the ROM image is now flashed onto the x-mem, it can now be launched with it's own bar command.
Enjoy. You now have ROM based games on the CPC with no need for a disc drive.
The only issue I can see would be if you need to reconfigure the x-mem or reflash Arkos, as these are provided on Disk and unless they are working then none of the above will work.
Now the biggy: The x-mem itself does not allow you to put AmsDOS (or anything else) in rom 7 so you may need single slot rom board in your Mother4x to allow you to put AmsDOS on your 464 without a a DDI-1, I am not sure if amsdos on it's own works in slot 6 or lower if nothing is in slot 7.
Maybe one of the hardware guys here could design a PCB that allows an external Eprom, or 16k flash to be programmed and switched in and put of Slot 7 overriding the internal one in a 6128/plus or providing the missing AmsDOS in a CPC 464 without DDI-1
Craig
Please use RDOS and not the Silicon Disc ROM. RDOS is more powerful and reliable, it provides a 444 kb RAM Disc C and you can even start games from it.
Quote from: TFM on 23:20, 08 November 14
Please use RDOS and not the Silicon Disc ROM. RDOS is more powerful and reliable, it provides a 444 kb RAM Disc C and you can even start games from it.
If using an x-mem, you need neither. Fw 3.15 has full support for a silicon disc, either 256 or 444k on boot. And we are trying to make this as simple as possible aren't we?
But yes the DKTronics Silicon Disc rom is total crap (Yes the Dump online "SiliDisc.zip" was ripped by me a long time ago, before i knew better) sorry folks for any mental anguish this rom image has caused ;)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 23:31, 08 November 14
If using an x-mem, you need neither. Fw 3.15 has full support for a silicon disc, either 256 or 444k on boot. And we are trying to make this as simple as possible aren't we?nguish this rom image has caused ;)
Exactly! Therefore the FW 3.15 extension ROM contains RDOS. ;)
Have you tried the whole process to the end? I don't have the X-MEM but I've been doing some tests in WinAPE and I've found some strange issues after trying to use |GF. It seems to corrupt the system some way and after this command no other command works properly. This is only in WinAPE with the default X-MEM Lower ROM (extracted from the disc), with its BASIC version, and also with the Expansion ROM (patched to create the RAM Disk).
AMSDOS is a regular ROM so in theory it can be placed anywhere, this seems not to affect the result.
Anyhow, I've also make further tests with 6128 original Lower ROM and BASIC, and with original RDOS, and in this case this compatibility problem doesn't arise. So it might be a way after all...
Edit to add: This is the configuration that seems to work flawlessly in the emulator.
Lower ROM: OS6128
Upper 0: BASIC1-1
Upper 1: RDOS-EXT
Upper 2: AksROM
Upper 3: FW315EXP (with RAMDisk disabled, just to have the |FLASH command)
Upper 4: AMSDOS
...
Upper 7:(Empty - Same as Upper 0)
And this is the one that has problems:
Lower ROM: FW315ES
Upper 0: BASIC11
Upper 1: FW315EXP (with RAMDisk enabled)
Upper 2: AksROM
Upper 3: AMSDOS
...
Upper 7:(Empty - Same as Upper 0)
With this configuration the system seems to get corrupted after a |GF command. Could you confirm that this doesn't happen with a real X-MEM?
I do the tests with both 256KB RAM Expansion + 256 Silicon Disk enabled in the memory configuration settings tab of WinAPE.
Quote from: opqa on 00:17, 09 November 14
Have you tried the whole process to the end? I don't have the X-MEM but I've been doing some tests in WinAPE and I've found some strange issues after trying to use |GF. It seems to corrupt the system some way and after this command no other command works properly. This is only in WinAPE with the default X-MEM Lower ROM (extracted from the disc), with its BASIC version, and also with the Expansion ROM (patched to create the RAM Disk).
AMSDOS is a regular ROM so in theory it can be placed anywhere, this seems not to affect the result.
Anyhow, I've also make further tests with 6128 original Lower ROM and BASIC, and with original RDOS, and in this case this compatibility problem doesn't arise. So it might be a way after all...
Edit to add: This is the configuration that seems to work flawlessly in the emulator.
Lower ROM: OS6128
Upper 0: BASIC1-1
Upper 1: RDOS-EXT
Upper 2: AksROM
Upper 3: FW315EXP (with RAMDisk disabled, just to have the |FLASH command)
Upper 4: AMSDOS
...
Upper 7:(Empty - Same as Upper 0)
And this is the one that has problems:
Lower ROM: FW315ES
Upper 0: BASIC11
Upper 1: FW315EXP (with RAMDisk enabled)
Upper 2: AksROM
Upper 3: AMSDOS
...
Upper 7:(Empty - Same as Upper 0)
With this configuration the system seems to get corrupted after a |GF command. Could you confirm that this doesn't happen with a real X-MEM?
I do the tests with both 256KB RAM Expansion + 256 Silicon Disk enabled in the memory configuration settings tab of WinAPE.
Yep i can confirm I have no issues with |gf to get a rom image to the Silicon Disc, the |flash from the silicon disc to the x-mem.
I have used this many times with the now MASSIVE selection of Games Roms as i don't necessarily want these on a real floppy just to test them. If I really want them available offline then I can always copy them from the ramdisc to a real floppy, or firectly from the minibooster to a real floppy separately afterwards.
:)
The only difference I have in my setup is that I am using a 6128 with a Parados modded cart so I do have the DOS in Slot 7.
If only someone would design a MX4 compatible slot 7 romboard (or 16k flash card) that way we could have multiple OS's on all out CPC's (Except for those few unlucky enough to have one where the internal rom 7 cannot be disabled. I do get why TotO designed the X-Mem not to replace rom 7, to ensure that all of the flash rom can be used by all users on all machines But for those of us with slot 7 external capable machines it would be a great thing to have. Just my 2 cents and now I'll move on.
As I know the FW extension ROM _must_ be at position 1.
Quote from: TFM on 01:05, 09 November 14
As I know the FW extension ROM _must_ be at position 1.
That's not the source of the problem, note that the expansion ROM isn't placed in slot 1 only in the
working configuration. And is there just to have the flash command available.
Anyhow, If as CraigsBar says there is no compatibility problem with real hardware then I think that it can be used without problems in a disk-less CPC464:
Recovery ROM flashing should be perfectly doable via Tape. The recovery utilities in the X-MEM disk and even the FLASER tool can be transferred to tape without much hassle. They are programmed in BASIC and basically do the following:
-Load the ROM file to &4000-&7FFF memory area.
-Load a small 476 bytes flasher routine in &8000
-Call this routine.
All this can be done via tape, so in the worst case there's always a recovery method.
And about AMSDOS/PARADOS, I strongly believe that they should work perfectly in a CPC464 in any slot <7. They are programmed in a generic way, so they're just like any other ROM.
Sorry, but in your case it's a problem of the emulator, not the CPC itself.
I had problems too on a real CPC, but I deleted one of this Booster-Management ROMs (don't remember which one) and then everything was fine. FW 3.15 is fine. :)
Quote from: TFM on 01:38, 09 November 14
Sorry, but in your case it's a problem of the emulator, not the CPC itself.
Don't worry, these were all tests I was doing for Carnivac, the whole process is never going to work in WinAPE anyhow as it doesn't emulate the MiniBooster, probably the expanded RAM configuration I was using (256KB standard expansion + 256 Silicon Disk) isn't fully compatible with X-MEM. There is also an even bigger issue, if I try with ParaDOS instead of AMSDOS the system doesn't even boot, it hangs.
So, guys. Don't any of you have a real CPC464 to try the whole process in real Hardware and be 100% sure that it works? You would
just have to burn AMSDOS or PARADOS in any slot <7, take the X-MEM (with C drive activated) to a real CPC464 without a DD1, and see if you can use C drive and transfer files to it via the MiniBooster. If you don't have one or you can't do the test I might start a new thread in the Hardware forum to give it more visibility. I think that this is something of interest to all CPC464 users.
Sadly I don't have a non upgraded 464 any longer. The closest I can get is an upgraded 464plus with no drives plugged in.
Mmmm, could be useful if you could try it with the System cartridge unplugged. After all what we want to check is whether AMSDOS and/or ParaDOS work in any slot <7, it does on emulator so I guess it will also do on real Hardware but...
Hmmmm. That would mean swapping my acid inside bracket from my 6128 plus to my 464plus to test.
Ok then, I will open other thread, maybe there is some4one else with a X-MEM a MiniBooster and a CPC474 that could try. I'm curious about it...
I'll test it tonight. I think the acid inside would be better off in the 464plus anyway. As the 6128 plus has no lower Rom board so will not boot without a cartridge no matter what.
Thanks! Could you also please try putting Arkos and AMSDOS ROM's in slots > 7, it should also work as long as the FW 3.15 initializes all ROMS, and it has the advantage that you can go back to a pristine unmodified 464 using the boot switch, as the original 464OS only initializes roms <8.Although I'm not sure whether 464Plus OS share this behaviour.
Well it's tested with my Acid Inside board. and bad news it seems.
the RamDisc integration requires AmsDOS or compatible Disc OS in Slot 7. As soon as this is lower than 7, then the machine hangs as soon as |c is executed :(
Craig
Wow, that's weird. Maybe the problem is that AMSDOS tries to communicate with the FDC and as long as it isn't there it hangs, this wouldn't be detected in WinAPE because you can't deactivate the FDC emulation, the *hardware* is always there.
Anyway... Could you please try with the alternative config with R-DOS I talked about in the other post?
Lower ROM: OS6128
Upper 0: BASIC1-1
Upper 1: RDOS-EXT
Upper 2: AksROM (Arkos ROM)
Upper 3: AMSDOS
The RDOS-EXT rom can be downloaded here:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ROM_List
Quote from: opqa on 07:07, 10 November 14
Wow, that's weird. Maybe the problem is that AMSDOS tries to communicate with the FDC and as long as it isn't there it hangs, this wouldn't be detected in WinAPE because you can't deactivate the FDC emulation, the *hardware* is always there.
Anyway... Could you please try with the alternative config with R-DOS I talked about in the other post?
Lower ROM: OS6128
Upper 0: BASIC1-1
Upper 1: RDOS-EXT
Upper 2: AksROM (Arkos ROM)
Upper 3: AMSDOS
The RDOS-EXT rom can be downloaded here:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ROM_List
My 464plus has an fdc. By booting it from the xmem without a cart installed I can get it running without amsdos, or at least with amsdos in a different slot. I'll test with rdos later on. Right now I have to get a 4 year old ready for school.
UPDATE: OK Tested it and it all looks good in this config. Unfortunately my Minibooster has stopped working so I am unable to fully test. however I have full access to C with no card and Parados in rom 3 and the R-DOS in rom 1 and Arkos in rom 2.
So this seems to be a runner. I will test this as soon as I get a working Minibooster again.
Craig
I'm looking with SyX to embed the floppy drive code that handle the RAM Drive into the FW3.1x EXP ROM.
That will allow to not require AMSDOS on 464 to make it working.
That would be awesome.
Quote from: TotO on 14:13, 10 November 14
I'm looking with SyX to embed the floppy drive code that handle the RAM Drive into the FW3.1x EXP ROM.
That will allow to not require AMSDOS on 464 to make it working.
If you don't mind, I was planning to adapt the X-MEM utility disk to tape so that could be used with disk-less machines as an install/rescue tape. My plan was to embedd the functionality of the BASIC programs "RESCUE", "INIT" and "INSTALL" into a single .BAS file with an additional selection menu, which would also install the Arkos ROM. I think I could do that once we have a working set of ROMS. What do you think? I would like to help with that.
Sure you can.
I have made those program in BASIC to allow any peoples to understand and adapt them for their own usage.
Just to say: I have completely lost all understanding of this topic now. It's all gone super technical and way over my head but you guys do what you gotta do to run all your tests and stuff and I'll go away and await the results. :)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 01:46, 10 November 14
Well it's tested with my Acid Inside board. and bad news it seems.
the RamDisc integration requires AmsDOS or compatible Disc OS in Slot 7. As soon as this is lower than 7, then the machine hangs as soon as |c is executed :(
Craig
In case of RDOS, the RDOS must only have a smaller number than the DOS itself. The DOS number can be free choosen. !C works - that much about the regular CPC. But... it ... Should be the same with FW3.15.
Very imortant: The PSU of the CPC is not enough for all MX4 stuff, you all need a PSU for the MX4 when having more than one card on it.
I have 4 boards on my MotherX4 and my CPC is enough to power all of them.
But, if peoples got a tired CTM +5V, it's better to use an external PSU.
(last but ot least, that allow to keep alive the RAM Drive when turning off the CPC)
Quote from: TotO on 09:04, 13 November 14
I have 4 boards on my MotherX4 and my CPC is enough to power all of them.
But, if peoples got a tired CTM +5V, it's better to use an external PSU.
(last but ot least, that allow to keep alive the RAM Drive when turning off the CPC)
Two questions:
1 - Have you documented exactly how much current each of your expansions needs?
2 - Does the MX4 have a diode to stop the external supply keeping the CPC alive if it's poewered down? (Yes, although I own one, I've never looked closely at the circuit)
Bryce.
1- No, because most peoples don't read the user notice. So, writing the technical one... :laugh:
- MiniBooster is around 150mA.
- X-MEM range is 60mA/100mA depending the usage.
- PlayCity is around 70mA.
2- 2x schotty diodes are used to auto-select the best power supply and protect from revert current up to 3A.
5V/2A is printed on the board. That is enough to power all the expansions and extra on the pass-through connector.
The PSU should stop to work before damaging the MX4 (and the CPC) if too much current is needed.
If for any reason, peoples want to only supply the MX4 with an external 5V PSU, you should remove the diole farthest from the power jack connector.
Quote from: TotO on 11:33, 13 November 14
2- 2x schotty diodes are used to auto-select the best power supply and protect from revert current up to 3A.
5V/2A is printed on the board. That is enough to power all the expansions and extra on the pass-through connector.
The PSU should stop to work before damaging the MX4 (and the CPC) if too much current is needed.
Nice design.
Bryce.
Quote from: Carnivac on 22:40, 12 November 14
Just to say: I have completely lost all understanding of this topic now. It's all gone super technical and way over my head but you guys do what you gotta do to run all your tests and stuff and I'll go away and await the results. :)
Just investigating a fast way to transfer ROMS to the X-MEM via the MiniBooster in a disk-less machine like your CPC464.
BTW, up till now, Are you still using tapes to load games or do you have/use some kind of tape adapter?
Quote from: opqa on 15:31, 13 November 14
Just investigating a fast way to transfer ROMS to the X-MEM via the MiniBooster in a disk-less machine like your CPC464.
BTW, up till now, Are you still using tapes to load games or do you have/use some kind of tape adapter?
A mixture. I tend to use tapes for the games I have the original tapes of and for others I try tusing Tapdancer on my Android phone connected to my 464 via a car stereo cassette adaptor. Not highly reliable but some games work fine and it's also how I test how my own graphics look alright on true CPC hardware.
Quote from: Carnivac on 17:48, 13 November 14
A mixture. I tend to use tapes for the games I have the original tapes of and for others I try tusing Tapdancer on my Android phone connected to my 464 via a car stereo cassette adaptor. Not highly reliable but some games work fine and it's also how I test how my own graphics look alright on true CPC hardware.
Mmm, Not highly reliable? Have you ever tried fast loaders
like the OTLA project using this adapter? It would be worth using them to upload ROMS via tape. Could you try with the sample attached? It's in mp3 format, you might reproduce it with the computer or mobile. I attach it also in wav format just in case. It should load a snapshot of Game Over game in less than 1 min.