I was reading some retro forums today and it struck me that were people even now who cannot let go of the my machine is better than your machine argument, even after 30 years, it is truly sad.
:D You are skating on some very thin ice here. :laugh:
The really sad part is that in most cases, these arguments from the past were never about technical merit (at least for 8-bitters), it was usually about which computer your parents had decided to buy. At least for my age group by the time we moved to 16-bitters most of us bought them ourselves and these arguments calmed down to a degree.
Quote from: dcdrac on 15:24, 12 January 14
I was reading some retro forums today and it struck me that were people even now who cannot let go of the my machine is better than your machine argument, even after 30 years, it is truly sad.
Yeah, especially when any idiot knows that the my computer
IS better than theirs!! :D
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 15:43, 12 January 14
Yeah, especially when any idiot knows that the my computer IS better than theres!! :D
At least we don't have any grammar nazis here... *cough* ;)
Nor any spelling nazis :laugh:
Quote from: Bryce on 15:43, 12 January 14
Yeah, especially when any idiot knows that the my computer IS better than theres!! :D
Bryce.
Your computer is probably seriously pimped.
Totally pointless, especially since anyone with a serious interest in old/retro/vintage computing probably has ALL of the machines being argued about - or is blinkered.
Sh1te computers need some love too ;D
Quote from: The Last Bandit on 21:59, 12 January 14
Sh1te computers need some love too ;D
Me and my Oric 1 are all with you on that one!
Bryce.
What was the Jupiter Ace like? I saw them for sale but never bothered getting one
Like a zx81 with Forth instead of Basic. ;D
Quote from: The Last Bandit on 21:59, 12 January 14
Sh1te computers need some love too ;D
What about Sh1te consoles? :o
Quote from: beaker on 23:46, 12 January 14
What about Sh1te consoles? :o
Have you played Zelda on the CDi ? :o :o
lol, and most games on the Sega SG-1000. The weird thing is I still wouldn't sell it :laugh:
I think in the human psyche our minds have been setup to cherish what we tend to receive and trash anything else that comes along, either that or everything has been setup from the way the car industry markets their product and how shows like Top Gear take preference. 8)
Could it simply be people look at a computer the same way they look at their car, I know here the main cars produced here (for not much longer though) have cult following, so perhaps what you're dealing with are people of a cult movement pushing for "Their Computer".
Like some cars, perhaps if you have a computer of smaller fame, then people cannot rant and rave about it? So perhaps instead of having an Amstrad have a Microbee for example. :D
Quote from: AMSDOS on 11:33, 13 January 14
I know here the main cars produced here (for not much longer though) have cult following,
[attach=2] :'(
Quote from: AMSDOS on 11:33, 13 January 14
Like some cars, perhaps if you have a computer of smaller fame, then people cannot rant and rave about it? So perhaps instead of having an Amstrad have a Microbee for example. :D
I wouldn't be so sure about that, my Tatung gets some derogatory comments :'(
This discussion is stupid: My computer is better than yours...
but...
have you seen THIS joystick? ;)
Quote from: dcdrac on 15:24, 12 January 14
I was reading some retro forums today and it struck me that were people even now who cannot let go of the my machine is better than your machine argument, even after 30 years, it is truly sad.
Very sad indeed. But that's human nature for you.
But look at the bright side: We're not seeing any "My CPC is better than your CPC" discussions.
That's something I've noticed. Everyone in any community for a certain retro computer, seem to stick together. Anyone is welcome, no matter what version of the specific computer he has, and what accessories he has for it.
Even someone just having an interest, is welcomed in with open arms by everyone.
That's especially true for our little CPC community here.
BUT... we do have our fights about other things, like e.g. which game-ideas are good and which aren't....
Quote from: mr_lou on 15:15, 13 January 14
But look at the bright side: We're not seeing any "My CPC is better than your CPC" discussions.
Oh, I thought the CPC 464 was a bit of a joke in some peoples eyes on the forum? :'(
And besides, you'd probably win the my CPC is better than pretty much everyelse's CPC battle ;) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: beaker on 15:33, 13 January 14
Oh, I thought the CPC 464 was a bit of a joke in some peoples eyes on the forum? :'(
That's just crazy talk from people who have no idea / are jealous or whatever.
Quote from: beaker on 15:33, 13 January 14
And besides, you'd probably win the my CPC is better than pretty much everyelse's CPC battle ;) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Bryced CPCs don't count.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 16:45, 13 January 14
That's just crazy talk from people who have no idea / are jealous or whatever.
I know, that's exactly what I was thinking! Just think how much time we used to have waiting for things to load! We could read War and Peace, go out for a long bike ride, and then we'd come back and find it had suffered a load error a or b! ::)
Quote from: Bryce on 16:45, 13 January 14
Bryced CPCs don't count.
Oh well in which case my 6128 Plus is much better than everyone else's 6128 Plus as it has had a tape mod not done by Bryce :laugh: :D :D :D
The 464 is clearly the best one. HTH. ;D
Seriously, all the 464 bashing - I seriously thinking about leaving and going over to the Retro Gamer forums where they love Amstrads :laugh:
Quote from: beaker on 15:33, 13 January 14
Oh, I thought the CPC 464 was a bit of a joke in some peoples eyes on the forum? :'(
And besides, you'd probably win the my CPC is better than pretty much everyelse's CPC battle ;) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Certainly when it comes to BASIC 1.0 and BASIC 1.1, though BASIC 1.0 seems to have a work around for many BASIC 1.1 additions, though from the other angle things seem to get tricky to work out. :D
To get back to the original question: stupid, maybe; weird, no.
When we were young, fighting for our machines was part of a socialisation process through belonging to a particular group - being a group sharing the same soccer team, hair colour or computer. Nowadays, it's all about reassurance and reaffirmation. Which is utterly stupid if you ask me, because it means you has some serious issues of self-esteem...
If you compare it to current teenage passtimes = Taking pictures of themselves and uploading them and all their personal details to an internet page that no-one reads (other than their mother), tweeting information that no-one wants to know, collecting imaginary online friends and taking their feedback seriously... What we did seems perfectly sane in comparison.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:00, 19 January 14
If you compare it to current teenage passtimes = Taking pictures of themselves and uploading them and all their personal details to an internet page that no-one reads (other than their mother), tweeting information that no-one wants to know, collecting imaginary online friends and taking their feedback seriously... What we did seems perfectly sane in comparison.
Bryce.
Hallelujah brother.
If I could, I'd "Like" your post 100 times.
Quote from: ervin on 23:30, 19 January 14
Hallelujah brother.
If I could, I'd "Like" your post 100 times.
I added one like for you ;)
Quote from: beaker on 22:55, 13 January 14
Seriously, all the 464 bashing - I seriously thinking about leaving and going over to the Retro Gamer forums where they love Amstrads :laugh:
I think it's mainly a demoscene related thing, lot of tricks that doesn't work if "bad" CRTC, CRTC 2? Basic 1.0 and memory.
So you can't see their work. Also you should not use an emulator. Lam0rz! ;D
[size=78%] [/size]Now it's a pitty, maybe some people will create new "rules" in the future. It is interresting to see how the 464 compete with other 8 bits. Of course, especially the C64. Not just bashing other.
Quote from: TFM on 01:03, 20 January 14
I added one like for you ;)
;D Thanks man.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:00, 19 January 14
If you compare it to current teenage passtimes = Taking pictures of themselves and uploading them and all their personal details to an internet page that no-one reads (other than their mother), tweeting information that no-one wants to know, collecting imaginary online friends and taking their feedback seriously... What we did seems perfectly sane in comparison.
Bryce.
In addition those activities are subjected to people snooping about and if your a victim of something and on the 6 o'clock news, then your Facebook or whatever page will be on display, not to mention workplaces snooping around searching for potential employees, so if you've done something dumb on duh 'net, it may come back to haunt you. :o
Even my stupid LinkedIn page thinks it would be good for me to Linkup with Rivals that I don't want to know.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:00, 19 January 14
If you compare it to current teenage passtimes = Taking pictures of themselves and uploading them and all their personal details to an internet page that no-one reads (other than their mother), tweeting information that no-one wants to know, collecting imaginary online friends and taking their feedback seriously... What we did seems perfectly sane in comparison.
Bryce.
Amen to that.
Amen? Already? Damn, missed the worship service again. :laugh:
Here the debate is more like "why is 464 so scrappy and 6128 so awesome !!!
And 6128Plus being even more awesome (i mean an Amstrad that can't read tapes can't be really bad...).
664 being mostly cute, rare and so expensive that it is like the 464PLUS... its place is in museums or for market speculation
Still having only 6128s, I consider myself so much better than so many poor 64ers.
And don't start me on monocolour monitors !!! ;D
Quote from: MacDeath on 00:10, 21 January 14
Here the debate is more like "why is 464 so scrappy and 6128 so awesome !!!
You got that the wrong way round!
BTW, I actually have more 6128s than 464s. The 464s are still best!
QuoteThe 464s are still best!
Damn you pervert Brits and you tape fetishism... and shrinken RAM.
despite you created CPC you also killed it!!!
;D
For me, the 464 is just colourful and exudes character. The 6128 keyboard is just a white rectangle atop a black rectangle, pretty much devoid of features. And the disc drive isn't even flush with the rest of the machine, whereas the 464's tape deck flows seamlessly into the rest of the machine. :) There's no contest if you're thinking about style! And who can't think of Alan Sugar without thinking of style? :o
Oh, and besides it gets old pretty quickly having to type |TAPE before you do anything useful with the machine... :laugh:
Quotepretty much devoid of features.
If superior RAM, (sometimes) superior CRTCs and superior mass data storage are not features, then what are those ?
also, ergonomic compact design, use less space on the table.
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:00, 21 January 14
use less space on the table.
That's not untrue :D
Matra Alice takes less place, and it rul... huh ;P
The 464 is the original CPC, a crazy cool looking. Feel built like a tank.
It is like the breadbox version of the Commodore 64.
The 6128 keyboard is much cheaper ::) it's not only the colors...
I think that the 464 keyboard is more ergonomic. Like an Amiga 500 or many other.
The 6128 have many CRTC, 2 as well, so not everything works on a 6128 yet. There's not really a superior CRTC then:
Nowdays it's better to be compatible with more 6128, mainly avoid CRTC 2. Which is somehow... still there.
Nah. 6128 has mostly CRTC 0 (Yay!) and 1 (fair too). At least in Germany.
I didn't have that meaning.
I know for the CRTC's...
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:00, 21 January 14
If superior RAM, (sometimes) superior CRTCs and superior mass data storage are not features, then what are those ?
You quoted out of context which meant you missed my actual point:
Quote
The 6128 keyboard is just a white rectangle atop a black rectangle, pretty much devoid of features.
I wasn't talking about the extra RAM, etc, I was talking about how the keyboard looks. The 6128 keyboard is really uninspiring compared to the 464 and as I said originally, the keyboard
is pretty devoid of features - it's just a rectangular block of off-white which is a definite step back from the 464.
Extra RAM, sure that's good, CRTCs, well personally I've made sure I've collected one of each CRTC type so I can ensure my code works on them all not just one (I've still never managed to find a cost-down pre-ASIC though), floppy I'm less bothered by (mostly because all but one of my 6128s has a broken drive and I don't really use the one that does work as my development work flow is easier with a tape).
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:00, 21 January 14
If superior RAM, (sometimes) superior CRTCs and superior mass data storage are not features, then what are those ?
also, ergonomic compact design, use less space on the table.
If space on the table is such an important criteria for you, that means that in your eyes the ZX Spectrum 48K is in some ways better than the 6128 and the Spectrum +3 just blows the 6128 out of the water? :D
I mainly use my 6128 or 6128+, just because it's less messy to connect my HxC and use disks, but for looks and style, the 464 wins every time.
Bryce.
Also, I should have added that my original comment about the 464 being best was meant as a humourous attempt to make people smile given the subject, not to actually start an argument as to which one's best! ::)
6128, use less space on the table™, and more food and drink on the table ;)
Quote from: MacDeath on 00:48, 21 January 14
Damn you pervert Brits and you tape fetishism... and shrinken RAM.
;D
My good sir, I'll have you know I spent many an hour last night enjoying waiting for the tape games I bought from Bluesbrothers to load on various systems. I could have loaded the games instantly on my BBC Micro from my TurboMMC or HxC attached to the machine but NO!, I wanted to feel the apprehension of watching the counter slowly count down, to feel that knot in your stomach knowing you could at any moment have wasted the last 10 minutes, hoping it wouldn't get a read error! That my good sir adds to the drama of these old machines and why the unexpanded 464 is the best of the Amstrads :laugh:
[attach=2]
QuoteSpectrum +3 just blows the 6128 out of the water?
but those huge colour clashes also take a lot of space on my retina...
Numerical pad ?
CPC6128 is perfect ratio in space and features and price...
yeah could have had a few coloured keys...
the PLUS keyboard do have some keys with slightly different shade (of grey/white).
Quote from: Token on 03:36, 21 January 14
I think that the 464 keyboard is more ergonomic. Like an Amiga 500 or many other.
Maybe you wanted to type "6128" instead of "464"? The tall, vertical setup of the 464 makes it a perfect wrist-destroyer...
Quote from: Gryzor on 18:14, 07 February 14
Maybe you wanted to type "6128" instead of "464"? The tall, vertical setup of the 464 makes it a perfect wrist-destroyer...
Yes, but a lot less tall than the C64 breadbin :]
The 6128 is really not "your modern flat keyboard". Just put something under your wrist if you have problem.
For the rest, to me the 464 is a faster, smoother and easier keyboard.
And then again, ZX spectrum is there with the vertical setup :D
I would have to say I am impressed by the Tatung Einstein TC-01 keyboard. It's at a nice height for typing in the recommended way, the angle of the keyboard is very nice and the keys are very responsive.... :-[
Here's another photo of it :laugh:
a 3incher can't be a bad machine... unless it is a speccy off course... :laugh:
(Well, spectrum+3 is the best speccy anyway)
Anyway what machiens were 3inchers ?
CPC of course. PCW...speccy+3, Tatung einstein, ORIC?... Enterprise64/128 perhaps ?
Quote3-inch drives were also used on a number of exotic and obscure CP/M systems such as the Tatung Einstein and occasionally on MSX systems in some regions. Other computers to have used this format are the more unknown Gavilan Mobile Computer and Matsushita's National Mybrain 3000. The Yamaha MDR-1 also used 3-inch drives.
Yamaha MDR-1...
Yamaha MDR-1 Manual (http://www.manualowl.com/p/Yamaha/MDR-1/Manual/87960)
what a classy smooth MF...
Galivan... WTF ?
(http://oldcomputers.net/pics/gavilan-1.jpg)
Gavilan SC computer (http://oldcomputers.net/gavilan.html)
what else ?
I think some Sega computer used 3" but not the same actually... or was it Nintendo's family computer ?
Mitsumi's "Quick Disk" 3-inch floppies
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d1/Blue_famicom_disk.jpg/201px-Blue_famicom_disk.jpg)
sauce : History of the floppy disk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_floppy_disk)
QuoteThe Disk System's Disk Cards were somewhat proprietary 71 mm × 76 mm (2.8x3 in) 56K-per-side double-sided floppy. These "Disk Cards," as they are officially called, were a slight modification of Mitsumi's "Quick Disk" 89 mm 2.8 in square disk format which was used in a handful of Japanese computers and various synthesizer keyboards, along with a few word processors. Some of the QuickDisk drives even made it into devices in Europe and North America, though they were somewhat rare. Mitsumi already had close relations with Nintendo, as it manufactured the Famicom and NES consoles, and possibly other Nintendo hardware.
Wow, the Gavilan is cool!
More info here: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=877&st=1 (http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=877&st=1)
The name is also cool. It's spanish for sparrowhawk.
Yeah but the Gavilan has a 3,5" floppy disk drive ;)
QuoteThe Gavilan featured 3.5-inch floppy drive, a 400 X 64 pixel LCD screen, an innovative touch-pad "mouse", and an internal 300-baud modem.
Edit: Humm... Gryzor's link tells about a 3" drive... So what's right now?
Wikipedia also says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavilan_SC) it had a 3" drive. This (http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v10n1/38_14_notebook_computers_in_.php) also says 3". So...
Both are correct ;)
QuoteGavilan was designed to accommodate both a 3.0-inch 320K microfloppy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfloppy) drive as well as a 3.5-inch floppy drive.
Hey!
One of those would make the perfect machine for dumping 3" disks ;D