CPCWiki forum

General Category => Technical support - Hardware related => Topic started by: willow3411 on 19:58, 01 November 23

Title: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 19:58, 01 November 23
Hi all !
I'm back with a new problem...
So here is a cpc 6128 Plus.
everything works fine except the floppy disk.
when I run a CAT, the engine does not turn and I get the disc missing message (see photo).
my tests: change of floppy ---> same
change of power supply --> same.
I don't think the chips are hot.

the floppy disk drive LED inside lights up

I have 5v at the floppy level

Have you ever had this problem?
I can do tests with a multimeter and oscilloscope (you'll have to explain a little :)).


I wonder ?
the floppy works on 12v right?
how is 12v managed since there is only 5v?




thanks in advance
willow



Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 20:00, 01 November 23
my motherboard with floppy

best regards
willow
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: eto on 22:29, 01 November 23
Quote from: willow3411 on 19:58, 01 November 23I wonder ?
the floppy works on 12v right?
how is 12v managed since there is only 5v?
The Plus floppies need 5V only. 
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: Audronic on 23:56, 01 November 23
@willow3411 

Perhaps the Belt is Broken in the disk drive
Or
Try another disk

Good Luck

keep Safe

Ray
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 09:17, 02 November 23
Quote from: Audronic on 23:56, 01 November 23@willow3411

Perhaps the Belt is Broken in the disk drive
Or
Try another disk

Good Luck

keep Safe

Ray
hello,
Thank you for answering me
so yes I forgot to specify:
the belt is new
I changed the floppy drive with my old CPC 6128 drive which works very well.
I specify that the engine does not run at all!

willow3411


Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: andycadley on 09:20, 02 November 23
You can't just use the drive from a 6128 inside a Plus. The older models used 12V drives, but the Plus doesn't supply 12V. You need a 5V drive from a Plus machine.
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 09:30, 02 November 23
Quote from: andycadley on 09:20, 02 November 23You can't just use the drive from a 6128 inside a Plus. The older models used 12V drives, but the Plus doesn't supply 12V. You need a 5V drive from a Plus machine.
Hi
Ah OK
so possible that it is my reader which is out of service?

so how to test?
apart from putting back a cpc reader plus?

best regards
willow

Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 09:12, 03 November 23
I can possibly mount a gotek to test, right?
I cannot find the diagram of the cpc 6128 more concerning the operation of the floppy

Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: eto on 09:40, 03 November 23
Quote from: willow3411 on 09:12, 03 November 23I can possibly mount a gotek to test, right?
yes. If I remember right, you have to jumper it to S0 if you use it internally. 

Quote from: willow3411 on 09:30, 02 November 23so how to test?
I guess you can try the Plus-drive in the CPC 6128. I would not connect the 12V though. Not sure if it's connected on the PCB but better play safe. 


Quote from: willow3411 on 09:12, 03 November 23I cannot find the diagram of the cpc 6128 more concerning the operation of the floppy
what diagram do you mean?
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 11:56, 03 November 23
Quote from: eto on 09:40, 03 November 23what diagram do you mean?
the diagram of the cpc 6128 plus motherboard and possibly the floppy drive it is a 157v

Quote from: eto on 09:40, 03 November 23
I guess you can try the Plus-drive in the CPC 6128. I would not connect the 12V though. Not sure if it's connected on the PCB but better play safe. 
yes 
I hadn't thought about it



Quote from: eto on 09:40, 03 November 23
I can possibly mount a gotek to test, right?

ok thanks....




Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: eto on 12:05, 03 November 23
Quote from: willow3411 on 11:56, 03 November 23the diagram of the cpc 6128 plus motherboard and possibly the floppy drive it is a 157v
I haven't seen floppy schematics but  Plus schematics are on the Wiki:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Schematics#CPC_Plus_Schematics
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: SerErris on 18:00, 03 November 23
The 12V line in the 6128 drives are used only for the motor. So if you have no 12V, the Motor has no power at all. That is why you have no motor spinning. 

And if the motor is not spinning, you have no index hole passing the sensor and therefore never a ready signal.

A gotek will work just fine, but you need to use a special data cable, as the pinout is noth 34 pin standard.
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 10:22, 05 November 23
Quote from: SerErris on 18:00, 03 November 23The 12V line in the 6128 drives are used only for the motor. So if you have no 12V, the Motor has no power at all. That is why you have no motor spinning.
And if the motor is not spinning, you have no index hole passing the sensor and therefore never a ready signal.
A gotek will work just fine, but you need to use a special data cable, as the pinout is noth 34 pin standard.
OK thanks,
so if I understand correctly in the cpc 6128 plus the 5v is transformed into 12v for the floppy drive?
If so, what are the components that allow this?
IC109? (LA6393D)
Sincerely
willow3411


Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: d_kef on 10:57, 05 November 23
Quote from: willow3411 on 10:22, 05 November 23
Quote from: SerErris on 18:00, 03 November 23The 12V line in the 6128 drives are used only for the motor. So if you have no 12V, the Motor has no power at all. That is why you have no motor spinning.
And if the motor is not spinning, you have no index hole passing the sensor and therefore never a ready signal.
A gotek will work just fine, but you need to use a special data cable, as the pinout is noth 34 pin standard.
OK thanks,
so if I understand correctly in the cpc 6128 plus the 5v is transformed into 12v for the floppy drive?
If so, what are the components that allow this?
IC109? (LA6393D)
Sincerely
willow3411




The 6128 Plus drive (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_FDD_part#EME-157) is 5 volt only. So no DC to DC conversion is needed.

d_kef

Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: SerErris on 11:59, 05 November 23
Quote from: willow3411 on 10:22, 05 November 23
Quote from: SerErris on 18:00, 03 November 23The 12V line in the 6128 drives are used only for the motor. So if you have no 12V, the Motor has no power at all. That is why you have no motor spinning.
And if the motor is not spinning, you have no index hole passing the sensor and therefore never a ready signal.
A gotek will work just fine, but you need to use a special data cable, as the pinout is noth 34 pin standard.
OK thanks,
so if I understand correctly in the cpc 6128 plus the 5v is transformed into 12v for the floppy drive?
If so, what are the components that allow this?
IC109? (LA6393D)
Sincerely
willow3411




No that is wrong. The 6128 and 6128 Plus use different drives that are not compatible.

If you put a 6128 Plus drive in a 6128, you will potentially burn it (if the +12V pin is actually connected, which it should not if it is not used). 

If you put a 6128 drive into a 6128 Plus it will just not spin. The rest of the logic works.

As the 6128 does not obey the todays 3.5 inch drive power connector standards. It is actually reversed.

This is why you cannot plug the power connector from a 6128 into a Gotek, as it will fry it and any usb stick you plug into it. The 12V line is connected to the 5V input on the Gotek. In a Plus that is either not a problem, or you do not get my power at all. 
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 12:11, 05 November 23
Quote from: SerErris on 11:59, 05 November 23No that is wrong. The 6128 and 6128 Plus use different drives that are not compatible.

If you put a 6128 Plus drive in a 6128, you will potentially burn it (if the +12V pin is actually connected, which it should not if it is not used). 

If you put a 6128 drive into a 6128 Plus it will just not spin. The rest of the logic works.

As the 6128 does not obey the todays 3.5 inch drive power connector standards. It is actually reversed.

This is why you cannot plug the power connector from a 6128 into a Gotek, as it will fry it and any usb stick you plug into it. The 12V line is connected to the 5V input on the Gotek. In a Plus that is either not a problem, or you do not get my power at all. 
so my problem comes from my cpc 6128 plus floppy drive.
how to know ?


Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: Audronic on 12:38, 05 November 23
@willow3411

When you replaced the belt on the floppy drive did you unplug any connectors on the floppy drive motherboard ?
If so have they been re plugged ??

Keep Safe

Ray
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 12:39, 05 November 23
Quote from: Audronic on 12:38, 05 November 23When you replaced the belt on the floppy drive did you unplug any connectors ?
If so have they been re plugged ??

Keep Safe
Good morning,

yes everything has been reconnected, I will check again just in case.

willow3411
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 13:09, 05 November 23
I took everything apart and reconnected it.
always nothing....
disc missing and no engine noise and nothing is running....
just the CAT diode a little lit (but weak).
Facade diode does not light up either.
snif snif

thanks

Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: SerErris on 17:47, 05 November 23
Okay, you do have a 6128 Plus AND a 6128 Plus drive, correct? Just confirming as I am now a little bit confused.
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 18:47, 05 November 23
Quote from: SerErris on 17:47, 05 November 23Okay, you do have a 6128 Plus AND a 6128 Plus drive, correct? Just confirming as I am now a little bit confused.

Hi
Yes that's fine.
I have a cpc 6128 plus AND a cpc 6128 plus floppy drive

willow3411


Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: Audronic on 23:30, 05 November 23
@willow3411 

Ok last check.
Please check that the +5 Volt line at the 4 pin power connector on the drive is +5 Volts DC
also that the data lead (26 Pin cable) is correctly connected.
If it is then you could try this:- Unplug (The 26 Pin data lead) and put it in Upside down if that is possible.
The red light should now be LIT an the motor should be turning.
This is only to be used for testing

Good luck

Keep Safe

Ray
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 07:37, 06 November 23
Quote from: Audronic on 23:30, 05 November 23Ok last check.
Please check that the +5 Volt line at the 4 pin power connector on the drive is +5 Volts DC
also that the data lead (26 Pin cable) is correctly connected.
If it is then you could try this:- Unplug (The 26 Pin data lead) and put it in Upside down if that is possible.
The red light should now be LIT an the motor should be turning.
This is only to be used for testing
Hi !
I do have 5v coming to the floppy connector.
I cannot reverse the 26p connector because there is a key on the connector.


Maybe I can power the 5v motor directly with my lab power supply?
in 5v obviously

best regards
willow3411


Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: SerErris on 14:12, 06 November 23
You can give this a try. 

You may also check if you have any shorts on the drive (e.g. measure without anything connected GND to +5V). 

Also you may want to power the whole drive from your lab power supply and see how much Amps it draws. It should not be very high.

Can you please specifcy the drive exactly ? 

What you also can do is connect your working 6128 drive and power it from external power supply. And then see if it works. 
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: Bryce on 16:52, 06 November 23
Quote from: SerErris on 14:12, 06 November 23What you also can do is connect your working 6128 drive and power it from external power supply. And then see if it works.

If you power the 6128 drive from a different supply as the CPC, you will need to connect the GND's of both supplies together or you could seriously damage either the drive or the CPC!

Bryce.
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 19:32, 06 November 23
Quote from: Bryce on 16:52, 06 November 23
Quote from: SerErris on 14:12, 06 November 23What you also can do is connect your working 6128 drive and power it from external power supply. And then see if it works.

If you power the 6128 drive from a different supply as the CPC, you will need to connect the GND's of both supplies together or you could seriously damage either the drive or the CPC!

Bryce.
Hi Bryce!
I think I'll try to find another floppy drive to do the testing.
the player is an EME-157
because when you say you have to connect the two gnd together? are you talking about the two GNDs of the floppy drive connector?

And if anyone has a floppy EME-157 to sell me, I'm a buyer.
thanks in advance
willow3411

Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: SerErris on 19:45, 06 November 23
You are totally right and I should have mentioned that. I just thougth that this does not need any explanation, but you are right.
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: SerErris on 19:47, 06 November 23
Quote from: willow3411 on 19:32, 06 November 23
Quote from: Bryce on 16:52, 06 November 23
Quote from: SerErris on 14:12, 06 November 23What you also can do is connect your working 6128 drive and power it from external power supply. And then see if it works.

If you power the 6128 drive from a different supply as the CPC, you will need to connect the GND's of both supplies together or you could seriously damage either the drive or the CPC!

Bryce.
Hi Bryce!
I think I'll try to find another floppy drive to do the testing.
the player is an EME-157
because when you say you have to connect the two gnd together? are you talking about the two GNDs of the floppy drive connector?

And if anyone has a floppy EME-157 to sell me, I'm a buyer.
thanks in advance
willow3411



What he means is, that you connect the power connector from the 6128 PLUS to the drive and in addition connect the lab power supply to GND to the CPC GND and the +12V rail of the lab power supply to the +12V pin on the drive.

This is really crucial, as otherwise the GND is not Common and can be any voltage compared to the other GND. 

So put the GND from the bench supply to the black cable on the drive power supply and the +12V cable to the unused pin. 
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: darkhalf on 11:13, 11 November 23
Quoteplayer is an EME-157
You are going to struggle to find another one of these. I've been looking for CPC drives on ebay etc and the prices have increased. Especially since support for CPC drives in Greaseweazle. It was actually cheaper to get a CPC6128 from france than to purchase a DDI-1 or even just a drive alone (!)

I would another alternative is trying a Shugart compatible 3.5" drive on the external floppy port (needs the 34 pin adaptor to drive). 

However same deal with needing external 5V and 12V power and common ground shared with the CPC6128 (PC ATX power supply for example). Normal CPC drives (like EME) have 12V (motor) and 5V swapped around, so triple check this before connecting to power

If you don't get a motor spinning when testing, then 12V power is not functioning
Title: Re: CPC 6128 PLUS - NO DRIVE - disc missing
Post by: willow3411 on 18:24, 19 November 23
You are going to struggle to find another one of these. I've been looking for CPC drives on ebay etc and the prices have increased. Especially since support for CPC drives in Greaseweazle. It was actually cheaper to get a CPC6128 from france than to purchase a DDI-1 or even just a drive alone (!)

I would another alternative is trying a Shugart compatible 3.5" drive on the external floppy port (needs the 34 pin adaptor to drive). 

However same deal with needing external 5V and 12V power and common ground shared with the CPC6128 (PC ATX power supply for example). Normal CPC drives (like EME) have 12V (motor) and 5V swapped around, so triple check this before connecting to power

If you don't get a motor spinning when testing, then 12V power is not functioning 

willow3411
Powered by SMFPacks Menu Editor Mod