Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics

[arnoldemu]

On this project I'm working on the AI and the player controls. This is the most important - the gameplay.
This will take time so everyone needs to be patient.

I've converted the new level tiles and level data to get an idea of how much ram it will take.

I am also working on some other scripts and tools that will capture the graphics from the sprite sheets and convert them into a form the game will use.

The current plan is this will be multi-load and on disc. I don't want to give any details concerning memory budgets, data sizes, code etc because things are subject to change.

[Duncan]

Nice work. I wonder, how will you fit all these sprites in memory (64kb) ?
What kind of cruncher will you use to display sprites and reverse them at decent frame rate ?


Thanks

[TFM]

With all that GFX and smart features... 128 KB? I mean... if you use double buffering?




This is an very exciting project. And I want to tell my compliments to everybody involved. Especially since you all work on it since a long time already. 

[sigh]

We don't know yet.


One of the most important thing was to give the programmers all the features that I would like to be in the game and take it from there. We wont know if everything will fit but this is a good way to go about it as it eliminates "feature creep"*
This is why it's taken me so long to work out the gameplay and graphics as I had to be sure that I gave the programmers everything and that no nasty surprises were going to come up. This included the front end and hud animations (which I haven't posted here) because UI design also needs to fit in memory too.


Feature creep* Introducing more ideas into a game turning it into a never ending project!

[TFM]

Actually that's a cool strategy 

[arnoldemu]

With all that GFX and smart features... 128 KB? I mean... if you use double buffering?




This is an very exciting project. And I want to tell my compliments to everybody involved. Especially since you all work on it since a long time already. 

Working on disc version first. Definitely be using double buffering. So far it's looking to be a 128k minimum game.
can't say anymore. It will take time.

[TFM]

That's ok. Better a well result than a rush. 

[sigh]

Still investigating the music. I think this would be very interesting to hear on the AY chip. Something like this would work with the nightclub level.


From 45:10 - 47:10



I've been trying to work out how the sounds could be layered using the AY sounds:

Channel 1  - Drumbeat and combat sound effects. I'm guessing that a bass drum hit or a snare hit, would be the same length as a punch sound effect. The sound effect would replace the drum effect for that moment, but as it will be in rhythm it shouldn't throw off the beat.

Channel 2 - Bass.

Channel 3 - Guitar and other effects.

So I wonder how many channels would a scratch sound take using the AY sounds? Would it need to be spread over 2 channels?

[McKlain]

You can have the drum and bass on the center channel (channel B, or 2 in your example). There are ways to mix them both (tricking your ears and your brain) and save a channel. Then you can have 2 channels for melodies and you can put the FX on the left channel. Or even use both channels for FX if there is a particular FX that you don't want to get cut by the kicks and punches (picking an extra life, a powerup or something like that).


I mixed the bass and the drums on my Funky Stars version and the result was pretty good. The original mod was 9 channels and I managed to cram almost everything into 3.

Funky Stars [Amstrad CPC true 8bit version] by McKlain on SoundCloud - Hear the

[sigh]

You can have the drum and bass on the center channel (channel B, or 2 in your example). There are ways to mix them both (tricking your ears and your brain) and save a channel. Then you can have 2 channels for melodies and you can put the FX on the left channel. Or even use both channels for FX if there is a particular FX that you don't want to get cut by the kicks and punches (picking an extra life, a powerup or something like that).

Ok.


Do you think it would still be a good idea to have the Drum, base and the hit/punch effect on the same channel? It's just that if you were to play the drum beat and hit beat at the same time, I'm thinking that you wouldn't really be losing much when they cut in and out of each other.


Listened to your Funky Stars.


That works very well indeed!

[McKlain]

I personally wouldn't mix the drums+bass with the FX. I meant to use the left and right channel (now I see that I didn't mention it) for melodies and FX and leave the drums+bass on the center channel alone.


There is one thing that happens with the AY that is inevitable. There is only one noise generator, shared by the 3 channels, and to make the drums and fight FX you need to use noise. When you have 2 channels playing noise at the same time, the noise value is shared on both. So you may have a drum playing wich uses some values, then you launch a punch FX with different values and the drums noise change to the new values from the punch FX (and the opposite can happen too if the drum instrument kicks in after the punch fx). It's a small problem, but sometimes you may hear strange little things.

[sigh]

Is there a tutorial for Arkos Tracker in the vain of "How to create your first tune", or something similar?

[McKlain]

Maybe this can help:


CPCRULEZ &#9733 DEMOSCENE &#9733 TRACKING TUTORIAL BY LAIDOKEN{UK}


documentations:software:arkos.tracker:start [Grimware]

[sigh]

Maybe this can help:


CPCRULEZ &#9733 DEMOSCENE &#9733 TRACKING TUTORIAL BY LAIDOKEN{UK}


documentations:software:arkos.tracker:start [Grimware]

Interesting info, but I'm really looking for a tutorial on using the package itself; a bit like when you get tutorials on how to use Flash/Maya/Unity:eg



Anything like this for Arkos?

[McKlain]

I don't know of any, but maybe you should ask on push'n'pop forums.

[sigh]

I don't know of any, but maybe you should ask on push'n'pop forums.

Okay, I'll have to register on that one. More passwords to remember!!!

[Hicks]

Hi everybody!
This article by Ultrasyd could help you:
Push'n'Pop | Amstrad CPC Demoscene | Arkos Tracker

Congratulation for your very "realistic" animations!

[sigh]

Hi everybody!
This article by Ultrasyd could help you:
Push'n'Pop | Amstrad CPC Demoscene | Arkos Tracker

Congratulation for your very "realistic" animations!

Seems to be what I'm looking for. I will check it when I get home.
Thanks.

[sigh]

Read through the article and it gives a clearer picture for me. I think the next best thing for me to do in order to learn Arkos Tracker, is to pick a simple pop song and just try to replicate it.

[Hicks]

It's not Arkos Tracker but Starkos, but you can take a look too:
documentations:software:starkos:start [Grimware]
Question: why don't you try to find a musician for your project? I think that a lot of people could be interested...

[redbox]

Question: why don't you try to find a musician for your project? I think that a lot of people could be interested...

EgoTrip is a very good CPC musician and might be interested...

He has lots of demos that he's sent me in the past to listen to.

[sigh]

Update:

I'm currently on holiday but have bought my Pandora machine with me, so I have been typing out the plot and have also sorted out all the weapons for the game. I will have to create a demo for arnoldemu and Munchausen to show how these work.

I still have 1 more enemy for the first level to finish constructing for. 

Graphically, the next level I create will need to include an enemy female, as completing that set will mean that all the character templates are done. Animating from that point will just be a case of re-styling the characters with different clothing and different heads.

[Ast]

is this project over ?

[arnoldemu]

is this project over ?

no

[sigh]

I've been a little quiet over this summer period and was going to post after the 1st boss and enemy layouts had been sent to the programmers, but I'll go through the updates now.

@Ast: As arnoldemu said. 

I've actually been working on this project 3/4 times a week, but It's been mostly to do with the story and the characters "character" traits. There's over 8 pages of A4 detailing the world they are living in and the reasons the players, enemies and bosses are doing what they do. I've been typing this on my Pandora machine while commuting to work but I haven't sent this to arnoldemu or munchausen yet as it's currently all over the place.

I decided to do this, because although I know what gender the bosses are, I'm not too sure what they should look like, what their gang affiliates themselves with and what their personalities are like.

Other news is that I have 5-6 animation layout sheets of the 1st boss animations to create for the programmers. What this means, is compiling all the sprite parts and also the gif animation for a certain move on one sheet, in order for the programmers to see how the sprites are layered and the order of the frames.
The bosses have the same number of moves as the player, so the fights are going to be rather epic.
After this boss is done, I will then have to do the different weapon animations and explanations on how they work and what they do; then, the female enemy, which will be the last animation "sprite size" I'll have to deal with.

Then there's the music and sound effects which are incredibly important to me. Although I've been trying my best to make the animations and backgrounds look good, if the sound effects don't have the right impact, then it just wont feel right. If the music doesn't have the correct atmosphere, then the tone of the game will be off.
I always felt that there was a disconnection with the sound effects in relation to the animations, on Target Renegade. The punching sound effects for example, doesn't have enough force to sound damaging to me. They just sound - strange, where as the Spectrum sound effects of the punches sound a lot more brutal and bone crunchy, making the impact of the fist connecting to the enemies face more satisfying.

This also extends to the weapon sound effects on the CPC. The "cukoo clock" noises, sound really out of place when you swing the weapon.

It's a shame they didn't use the sound effects from the first Renegade on the CPC.