OPC One

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

It would be neat, but it would be a different computer in the end.


Maybe if the firmware was hacked to use the new chip...

[KaosOverride]

Some MSXs could overlay external video sources. Maybe is not a VDP direct option, and is made on external hardware (External from the VDP)

If the external VDP is initialited on a full black screen, then can be mixed with the CPC output, at RGB level, because the VDP also generates RGB signals.

When using the VDP, the CPC's screen is configured to full black, and you have an unique RGB output. Same as first Voodoo 3D cards

And because both should be sharing the CPCs clock, the images maybe will be easily genlocked...

You could mix both images, for a game you could make the scores-lives on the CPC side and the full resolution HD colour game on the VDP... lol

[TotO]

If the CPC cant use the P modes I dont see that as being a bad thing really. Its not as if we've ever had tiles/patterns/sprites. The ability to have 256 or 32k colours at 512x212 and tonnes of Vram running with minimal z80 use is a desirable things considering we've been stuck at 4 or 16 for 30 years.

The V9990 was released in 1992... So more than 20 years ago but stillborn as the existing video games systems does better.

You can't display 512x512 mode and any other modes that can't match with the CPC display clock.
Like I said, yes bitmap modes are fines. But that don't make me dream at all. Better to use an other computer.

[TFM]

I think I'd prefer the Symbiface 3 to happen. 1Mb memory, HD IDE, V9990 graphics card & Net connectivity. Can a CPC want more than that?

Yes. Finally to move on and have 4 MB as standard (compatible to RAM7 and Jareks expansions of 2 MB and 4 MB). 

[Trebmint]

The V9990 was released in 1992... So more than 20 years ago but stillborn as the existing video games systems does better.

You can't display 512x512 mode and any other modes that can't match with the CPC display clock.
Like I said, yes bitmap modes are fines. But that don't make me dream at all. Better to use an other computer.

I dont pretend to be an expert of video cards or compatibility. Personally I'd just like to see an enhanced CPC graphics capabilities via an addon card (so its just an upgraded CPC). Just a lot of VRam, Some form of blitter and 256 colours at 320x200 would do me.


So are there any cards that are better suited to the amstrad... ive not heard of any so the 9990 sounded perfect. If it doesnt work with the cpc hardware thats another thing

[TotO]

I got some V9990 for tests, some years ago. I was more disappointed about what it allow for it's time... 
But, I think that modes B0[nb]Not official[/nb], B2 and B4 may work great with the CPC and allow to use overscan easily.
All other modes are not suitable. (no tiles, no sprites so)

Mode B0 can display in 50Hz a 192x288 screen:
16bit = 5RGB = 32768 colors. (128K VRAM)
8bit = 4x4bit palette = 64 colors.
4bit = 1x4bit palette = 16 colors.

Mode B2 can display in 50Hz a 384x288 screen:
16bit = 5RGB = 32768 colors. (256K VRAM)
8bit = 4x4bit palette = 64 colors.
4bit = 1x4bit palette = 16 colors.

Mode B4 can display in 50Hz a 768x288 screen:
4bit = 4bit palette = 16 colors.

Each time you double the VRAM, you get more virtual screens for double/triple buffering.
But, you really need a harddrive (or big ROM) to store all data to display the 16bit modes.

In clear, with 128K VRAM you may expect something usable on CPC like:
- MODE 0 64 colors / 32768 and 32768 colours splash screens.
- MODE 1 64 colors / 32768
- MODE 2 16 colors / 32768

It's just a shame to not be able to display 16x16 colors in 8bit Bitmap mode and using Plane mode in 384 witdh.   
But, sure... its blitter is enough fast for doing cool stuff if well interfaced with the CPC display. 

After, the problem is always the same... Need programs. 

[Trebmint]

After, the problem is always the same... Need programs. 

Indeed software is always the issue. And I dont think Im allowed to say 2014 is the year of Symbos am I?

[TotO]

I hope for peoples supporting it. 

But.. It's not a new Symbiface that will made more programs for it.
And think about peoples who have already put 129€ in it? Need to change it? An upgrade will be available?

[TFM]

Don't confuse the SF2 with SymbOS. One is hardware, one is software.

[TotO]

I confuse nothing. If a program use the special features related to the V9990, it will not run without.
Except if SymbOS avoid to directly access to the hardware...
But in all cases, you can't make a VGA program running on a CGA computer w/o big display problems, making them unusable.

May be, it will be better to offer the display board alone and usable by all existing users?

[TFM]

Relax    Trebmint and TotO talked about SymbOS and SF2. I was driving at that. Also the SF3 got mentioned. Sorry, but in this thread everything get's mixed up.


Further... for non CPC GFX imho a Terminal should be used, and I say terminal, because it should be a kind of 'smart' card that relieves the CPC, else where would be the gain?

[Trebmint]

I confuse nothing. If a program use the special features related to the V9990, it will not run without.
Except if SymbOS avoid to directly access to the hardware...
But in all cases, you can't make a VGA program running on a CGA computer w/o big display problems, making them unusable.

May be, it will be better to offer the display board alone and usable by all existing users?

Symbos already allows 16>4 colour conversion without the coder having to change anything. Its possible at some point symbos might support 256 or 32k for the 9990 and the apps will be the same as run at 4 colour on the cpc, even if that means 2 colour varieties of the graphics have to be generated. Just better quality visuals with the same gameplay

[TotO]

Poor CPC... Already slow and need to decrease from 32K to 4 with that.
Sorry, but better to release an stand alone GfX expansion for the existing board and all users.

[Trebmint]

Poor CPC... Already slow and need to decrease from 32K to 4 with that.
Sorry, but better to release an stand alone GfX expansion for the existing board and all users.

Which nobody will code for

[TotO]

It's not because the V9990 is embedded on a new Symbiface that peoples will program more for.
Peoples interested by this OS already got the board. That will only force them to buy again, or not support the V9990.
But, if peoples see what is possible by using SymbOS with it, they may be interested to buy a video card.
(but not again a full board, in my opinion)

[TFM]

Poor CPC... Already slow and need to decrease from 32K to 4 with that.
Sorry, but better to release an stand alone GfX expansion for the existing board and all users.

Totally agreed! For all CPCs! 

[TFM]

Which nobody will code for

Like a new driver for SymbOS. Or does it _already_ support the 9990?

[Trebmint]

Like a new driver for SymbOS. Or does it _already_ support the 9990?

Symbos already supports the MSX GFX9000 which is the vdp9990, but only at 16 colours (like using a ferrari to go to the shops). MSX users are always wanting more 9990 software, and seem to be far more interested in developing symbos apps/games as a whole. If symbos were ever to make the jump to 256/32k colours (which probably wont happen just for the gfx9000 without the symbiface 3 existing imho) it would be a terrible shame if CPC didnt benefit from the improved visuals.

SymbOS running on a MSX turbo-R with Tetris! - YouTube

Actually have a look at this video which shows a few of prodatrons existing apps, and some the guy that made the video has developed on an MSX2 using SymBasic. Its all runs on the CPC too, just in 4 colours. Upgrade to 256 colours and wow?

Anyway I feel I've dragged this off topic so I will shut up now

[TotO]

For an OS,  the real interest is to use the true-color in 16 bit (5R5G5B) or 8 bit (3R3G2B) offered by the V9990.
So, no need to manage a 16 color palette. And decrease is faster to manage for displaying anything on screen.

[TFM]

Ok, Symbos can do the job. Cool! 


Now... there is a small problem. The hardware is missing on the CPC side! And the SF3 (in case it will get ever released) is already finished. It was shown in Spain years ago. I seriously doubt that Dr. Zed will start it's design from scratch to integrate a VDP. And honestly, as I know him, (and I know him quite a while, it was me who brought him in contact with the CPC back the day), so as I know him, he would choose more modern hardware for a VDP. Sorry.
Also me here hijacked the thread long enough.    But on the other hand we got time since there is no OPC built yet. 

[Trebmint]

Ok, Symbos can do the job. Cool! 


Now... there is a small problem. The hardware is missing on the CPC side! And the SF3 (in case it will get ever released) is already finished. It was shown in Spain years ago. I seriously doubt that Dr. Zed will start it's design from scratch to integrate a VDP. And honestly, as I know him, (and I know him quite a while, it was me who brought him in contact with the CPC back the day), so as I know him, he would choose more modern hardware for a VDP. Sorry.
Also me here hijacked the thread long enough.    But on the other hand we got time since there is no OPC built yet. 

Well I personally doubt that DrZed will finish the sf3, so its moot but a shame. Though prodatron told be a few weeks ago the intention was to support a v9990. Additonal hardware is the way to go imho... and even so people will argue its not a CPC anymore. We argue about everything else


My intention is to support 256 and 32k in the future builds of symstudio and symbasic, so I hope CPC and not just MSX supporters benefit from these better visuals somewhere down the line

[TotO]

It's just sad that the CPC expansion port not out the RGBS signals. 

[Bryce]

If you are building a completely new video system for the CPC you don't need access to the RGB signals, just the address bus and data bus and a few control signals (all available on the expansion port). The new graphic card would have it's own RGBS signals. The old ones would be unused.

Bryce.

[TotO]

I'm building "nothing"

[Bryce]

Ok, grammar expert

I meant "Si on fait" not "Si tu fais". But English grammar doesn't tend to use the word "one" anymore (unless you happen to be a member of the royal family).

Bryce.