On Jetpac and copyright...

[40Crisis]

Ah frak it, here you go guys... If Microsoft is feeling strongly about it I will, of course, take it down, but it won't be less silly...


CDT and DSK included.

I can't agree with that but I know it was to happen. You take the whole responsability for providing this file.
May I suggest you to remove this file as you might see one day the police knowing at your door before breakfast 

I know it's very unlikely to happen but how knows with Lawyers from big firms ?

[Gryzor]

Well, given how easily you can find the file online at hundreds of sites within seconds, I doubt they are keen on enforcing copyright on this one. But as I said, if they ask us, I'll take it down naturally.


[EDIT] Of course the responsibility lies with me, but if it makes you feel uncomfortable I'll remove the file. I don't want it to impede any further efforts!

[40Crisis]

Well, given how easily you can find the file online at hundreds of sites within seconds, I doubt they are keen on enforcing copyright on this one. But as I said, if they ask us, I'll take it down naturally.


[EDIT] Of course the responsibility lies with me, but if it makes you feel uncomfortable I'll remove the file. I don't want it to impede any further efforts!

That's true that I feel uncomfortable with that. I would be grateful to you if you remove this file.
Also I want you to avoid possible trouble as you see very often firms like Nintendo or Taito suing people in law for doing that.

[Gryzor]

...aaaand done. Apologies, mate.

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

*downloads whilst he can*
Edit: *Whoa, got that in the nick of time*

I understand the concern - it is a shame that the current owner - far removed from the original publisher and developer - still (at some level) wants to restrict the availability of these classic games from over 30 years ago, or at least put fear into people keeping that old software alive.


I look forward to trying this tonight, hopefully in an emulator that does CRT emulation/blurrymatification!

[Gryzor]

Haha that reminded me of the opening scene of Rick Dangerous somehow

Yeah, a total shame.

[ralferoo]

That's true that I feel uncomfortable with that. I would be grateful to you if you remove this file.

Me too! (even though I know I'm late and you've already done so)

I actually work for Rare (and hence Microsoft) and usually read the forum at lunchtime and it's not great seeing things like this willfully being pirated a few posts down from a notice explicitly making it clear that the copyright owner still considers it a viable IP to continue protecting (and given that the Jetpac Refuelled remake was done fairly recently, it's obviously not abandoned).

There are always cases where nobody knows who the copyright owner is anymore for some games where the owner has changed hands many times. But certainly in UK law, and it's similar in most places due to the Berne Convention, copyright expires at least 25 years after the death of the copyright owner. If the copyright is owned by someone who's alive or a trading company, it is clear that the copyright is still active. The whole general principle of "abandonware" is fundamentally flawed as for almost every game made in the last 30 years, there's only a tiny chance that the copyright owner died more than 25 years ago. Possible, but very unlikely. Copyright law still applies whether the owner intends to make any more money from it or not.

Anyway, for sure piracy exists and there are plenty of places where this (and most any 8-bit game) can be found, but please don't make this site a target for lawyers by promoting piracy here.

[ralferoo]

I understand the concern - it is a shame that the current owner - far removed from the original publisher and developer - still (at some level) wants to restrict the availability of these classic games from over 30 years ago, or at least put fear into people keeping that old software alive.

The current owner isn't far removed from the original publisher and developer at all.

Ashby Computers and Graphics had already been renamed to Ultimate before Jetpac was released (it was actually the first game under the Ultimate label). Even after the transition to the Rare name, the original developers continued to own and run the company until a couple of years after the company was bought by Microsoft, and in fact they were still running Rare after the release of Jetpac Refuelled which was specifically developed for Microsoft on the Xbox 360. There's simply no way Microsoft's ownership of this can be considered "far removed" from the original developer.

[arnoldemu]

I understand the concern - it is a shame that the current owner - far removed from the original publisher and developer - still (at some level) wants to restrict the availability of these classic games from over 30 years ago, or at least put fear into people keeping that old software alive.

it is frustrating, I experienced frustration with frak and repton. But you also have to respect it.
it is their ip, and they have the right to say what should happen to it.

[paradroid90]

This is another reason why I do need to own a speccy :-)

[Gryzor]

I'm not really sure what your point is...

I'll agree with what you say about making the site a target of lawyers. I'll also agree that the law is pretty clear on those issues.

That said, the law is clearly bullshit. I don't even consider this piracy. Yes, I know about the Berne convention. What's more, I think in the US it's not 25 but 70 (75?) years, and they're pushing for 120 years. This would mean that, say, if someone made a game in '85 being 20 and he lives till 80, it means 65+120=185, meaning the game would be in the PD in the Year of the Lord... 2170. If that's not ridiculous I don't know what is.

We're not pirating a current release, we're not even pirating a re-release. This is as niche as it gets, an ancient game running on an ancient system. As countless others have pointed in the past, if Rare or MS or anyone else think they're going to lose sales from this then they should be locked up in a padded cell.

As a matter of fact, when the emulation scene took off in the mid-90s - back then things were pretty closer (but not close enough) to piracy, and companies didn't even care. As a matter of fact, if it wasn't due to the interest drummed up from the emulation community, companies, late as ever to the game, would not be re-releasing their old titles. So, in effect "piracy" helped them make every penny stemming from legacy titles. *And* greatly helped kickstart the retro-style indie scene.

And, it's funny how corporations who are all for deregulation and "free markets" so actively seek law protection when it comes to copyright...

As a side note: yesterday I bought Conrad's Heart of Darkness for Kindle from Amazon. They had it for free, noting it's a "community effort". But I bought a paid-for copy that included historical context, a bio and what not. All for the princely sum of... $1.20. For those who don't know, Heart of Darkness is an amazing book, upon which Apocalypse Now is based. And I was thinking, it's so good that this book, this fantastic tale by someone who mastered the English language like very few others (Conrad was Polish) is available to all. This is the essence of civilisation and culture, not the Mickey Mouse copyright laws.
(In contrast, the Kindle version of a book whose paperback edition I bought for $11.50 was "discounted" to... $14.50. Yeah, thank you PirateBay.)

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

Well, the law is the law, however stupid it is.


But as they never release or made Jetpac for the Amstrad CPC, then where's the piracy coming from from this version? Even the graphics are reworked (internally)...


Sure, there could be a trademark issue, if they still have a Jetpac trademark. So that can be fixed with some alternative graphics and strings for that aspect...

[ralferoo]

I'm not really sure what your point is...

My point is that from the original post it is clear that Microsoft had been contacted and their position on the matter of copyright of Jetpac is clear. There's not even a grey area that it might have fallen into the public domain, it's absolutely black and white.

Whether you agree with copyright law or not, or whether you think it is "bullshit" is pretty much immaterial, the law is what it is. Much the same as how you have to abide by driving laws in your country (or indeed any other laws) whether you think they make sense or not.

But as they never release or made Jetpac for the Amstrad CPC, then where's the piracy coming from from this version?

The piracy is coming from the fact that the tape image from the Speccy version was posted here, despite the fact that the original post made it clear that permission had denied to distribute it.

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

The piracy is coming from the fact that the tape image from the Speccy version was posted here, despite the fact that the original post made it clear that permission had denied to distribute it.

Oh, I thought that was referring to the (post conversion) Amstrad CPC CDT/DSK that was posted earlier, not the original Spectrum tape image.

[ralferoo]

Oh, I thought that was referring to the (post conversion) Amstrad CPC CDT/DSK that was posted earlier, not the original Spectrum tape image.

Oh, it'd already been deleted, so I assumed this was the Spectrum version. My bad.

Either way though, providing the converted CPC version enables people who don't have the original to trivially play the game, and is presumably the reason the author of the emulator went to so much trouble to provide a convertor rather than an executable image of the already converted game.

[redbox]

Hmmm, I'm on the fence on this one.  I am a big fan of open source, but then also have a certain amount of sympathy with people wanting to protect their IP.

However, I think it's worth noting that people only really start to care about IP and copyright when they think they are going to make some money rather than the principle of it.

When emulators first appeared, there was no way of monetizing their IP so they didn't care.  But now you can charge £2.99 to people wanting to play retro games on their iPhones/iPads/whatever (or do a 'remake' on the coat-tails of this) the IP holders are suddenly very interested in their IP again.

At the end of the day, it's all about money.  Which open-source definitely isn't.  Choose your side 

[Gryzor]

Whether you agree with copyright law or not, or whether you think it is "bullshit" is pretty much immaterial, the law is what it is. Much the same as how you have to abide by driving laws in your country (or indeed any other laws) whether you think they make sense or not.

Um... absolutely not I respect driving laws because they save lives. I choose when to respect copyright laws because most of the time they do harm rather than good. If we believed in laws blindingly because "the law is what it is" then we'd be living in, say, the 14th century or something...

[ralferoo]

I choose when to respect copyright laws...

That doesn't mean you won't get punished for disobeying laws you've chosen not to respect. 

[Gryzor]

Yup, but now you're just stating the obvious

[zeropolis79]

*downloads whilst he can*
Edit: *Whoa, got that in the nick of time*

I understand the concern - it is a shame that the current owner - far removed from the original publisher and developer - still (at some level) wants to restrict the availability of these classic games from over 30 years ago, or at least put fear into people keeping that old software alive.


I look forward to trying this tonight, hopefully in an emulator that does CRT emulation/blurrymatification!

They'll be blocking ebay auctions of original copies of these games soon.

[Phi2x]

.

[Gryzor]

They'll be blocking ebay auctions of original copies of these games soon.

Yeah, actually I was thinking that earlier; if they had their way back then, like they do now with "licensing" software and shit, there'd be no retro section on eBay...

[ralferoo]

♫ Do what you want 'caus a pirate is free ♫
♪ You are a pirate! ♪

Actually, I imagine a pirate song to be more like this: 

[Gryzor]

(fast forward to 2:34)

[remax]

That doesn't mean you won't get punished for disobeying laws you've chosen not to respect. 

That's not so simple.