The beginning of the End.

[Concerned_Fan]

Dear Wiki Fans and Members,
       while browsing the latest changes in the CPC wiki, I came across this disgrace: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Faulty_Undenying_Abbreviations and couldn't believe what I saw. Ignoring the terrible english and the fact that the information is completely false, i have to ask myself, is this what the wiki is coming to? This has absolutely nothing to do with the CPC whatsoever and makes a mockery of the otherwise well documented and comprehensive information offered in the Wiki. Has it come so far, that the wiki needs to be moderated to avoid this kind of junk that belongs at best in a second-rate blog, but has no place in a wiki of the standard that CPC wiki readers have come to expect. It would be very sad if the CPC wiki goes the way other sites have gone. Please don't let the wiki go there.

Regards,
A Concerned Wiki Fan.

[Devilmarkus]

Hi 'Fan'
I first thought "hey what's this" when I saw your thread.
Then I read the wiki-page which you described here and totally agree with you.
This page is, together with this page: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Triumph totally un-useful.
We already discussed about "probably existing things" here: http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,545.0.html

There are people who shine with superficial knowledge.

[Devilmarkus]

I just added a poll about sites like these:
http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,709.0.html

[Devilmarkus]

There are many sites which need to be changed...
e.g. http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Isp

[Gryzor]

Erm... first of all, I don't get why you feel compelled to write anonymously! It's a perfectly valid opinion and I can't see why posting under your real name would be bad or inconvenient or whatever!

On the other hand, you are being quite a bit melodramatic! Yes, it's two irrelevant, out of topic and out of hand articles, so we 'll delete them. Going from that to the End of the World As We Know It (including CPCWiki) it quite a stretch.

s this what the wiki is coming to?

Yes it is, but not in the way you mean it. This is what the wiki is coming to, as a growing collective, with more and more people contributing stuff. There are hundreds of edits and changes being done every day and the number of articles is ever-rising, so it's only natural that you'll get some garbage thrown in as well. But, come on, nobody died, let's all smile and move forward. What's more, http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Faulty_Undenying_Abbreviations was meant, as far as I can see, as an in-joke, and no seriousness was pretended.

[arnoldemu]

I think there are a lot of people who are passionate about the cpc, wiki and forum.
We all want a site to visit and to talk about cpc, to share information and to help others.
We all want to see new games, read about some new info.

So here it depends on what form the wiki should take. What is best for new or old to read and to keep them comming back and to get them interested in cpc.

Some people want the wiki to be more serious ... others want it to be fun too.
Well....

[Devilmarkus]

@ Kevin:
You are right here.
But: shouldn't a wiki be as serious as possible?
We could post our nonsense here in forum!
Also funny "Talk:" sites in the wiki are good.
But pages with informations should be serious and clear understandable for everyone.
When I see a wonderbra in a CPC-related site, I first think:
WTF???
Also, in the page is nothing which writes "we collected some funny materials while searching for triumph products"

My opinion: When "foreign" people see pages like these, it's no wonder that they point with their fingers on the CPCwiki and laugh about it. (And that's not meant positive)

[Devilmarkus]

Perhaps also a funny site about "Outtakes" in the wiki would be cool, where we collect "stupid things" about the CPC

But the user would clearly see, this page is meant to be funny.

[Gryzor]

I don't think that the wiki should be 'as serious as possible'. But this doesn't mean it should be silly, either. You can adhere to facts and write informative articles (I assume that's what you meant by 'serious') and still not be pretentious. Truth *can* afford some fun.

You are totally right about the Talk pages, and the outtakes idea is a fantastic one

Indeed, I'm of the idea that the two pages should be discussed, so I deleted the abbreviations one.

[TFM]

Hi there!

Ok, let's go the golden middle way. Pages can be serious or not, but unserious pages should be branded / marked as funny or unserious. Not all people share the same background or knowledge.  .... IMHO

[nocash]

Ah, here you are talking about the Triumph page, too. I've originally posted it as a side note in the http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,678.msg8061.html#msg8061 thread, and discussed the deletion of that article in http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,678.msg8122.html#msg8122.

Golden middle sounds good. Wouldn't be too happy needing to have it branded "unserious" or "funny" though. Of course, there's some fun in the arrangement. But it'd pretty much spoil the joke when adding a big message saying "THIS IS FUNNY! HA AH HA".

And most of it is serious in so far as it refers to existing companies. The more unlikely ones are already branded as "unlikely" or "doubtworthy", wouldn't that do it, too? Most of the text and pictures in the article are concentrating on the typewriter/computer manufacturer - which should be the most likely one that amstrad had in mind - unless somebody knows more Triumph company(ies) related to electronics?

Damn, after initially deleting the Triumph page, markus now somehow got me into writing MORE about the different brands, how could that happen? Just started that project here http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/LK-selectable_Brand_Names will be still some work to squeeze a summary with the most important details on each brandname into one page. Help on writing it would be welcome!

And help on unclear things, too! For Isp, all I could find was the ISP KG (the european ORION distributor, from 1975 until today). Since amstrad included Orion in the BIOS, it isn't too unlikely that they also had the ISP KG in mind. Or does somebody have more info or better theories? With Orion it's quite clear that they meant ORION - only problem is that there are TWO nearly identical ORIONs with same logos and similar product range, but without linking their webpages together - the people at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Orion_Electronics are pretty confused about it, too.

Cu, Martin

[Bryce]

Regarding the different Triumph companies, I think the Cars, Motorcycles and Bicycles Triumph was all the one company and not different ones with the same name. But I could be wrong.

Bryce.

[Grim]

And help on unclear things, too! For Isp, all I could find was the ISP KG (the european ORION distributor, from 1975 until today). Since amstrad included Orion in the BIOS, it isn't too unlikely that they also had the ISP KG in mind. Or does somebody have more info or better theories? With Orion it's quite clear that they meant ORION - only problem is that there are TWO nearly identical ORIONs with same logos and similar product range, but without linking their webpages together - the people at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Orion_Electronics are pretty confused about it, too.

According to this web-page, Orion is (was?) a South Korea based Japanese company that manufactured the CPC.

[nocash]

Yup, Triumph bicycles and motorcycles seem to have the same logo. Haven't checked ALL the motorcycle brands though (there seem to be around 5 different ones). Triumph Cars seems to be from USA, not sure if they are related to the UK Triumph automobiles. Btw. does somebody know how popular the Triumph rock band has been in UK? Judging from youtube concert videos, they have played at big festivals (not in UK, I think) back in 1983. If Triumph was another insider-joke (like Arnold), then the rock band might unexpectedly become the most likely answer :-)

[redbox]

Dear Wiki Fans and Members,
...
Regards,
A Concerned Wiki Fan.

If you look closely at the prose, it's not too difficult to guess who authored this post... 

[nocash]

> If you look closely at the prose, it's not too difficult
> to guess who authored this post... 
Post-orthodox american christians? ;-) No, if the message says Guest, I'll trust that it wasn't a forum member.

> According to this web-page, Orion is (was?) a South Korea
> based Japanese company that manufactured the CPC.
Whoops, they manufactured the whole CPC? Some CPCs actually have a "made in korea" sticker at the bottom, though not showing details on the company name. GX4000 has "made in japan". And, strangely, my german Schneider doesn't have any "made in" at all.

[Ygdrazil]

What do you mean? 

/Ygdrazil

If you look closely at the prose, it's not too difficult to guess who authored this post... 

[Bryce]

Triumph cars is definitely an English company, though they did export an awful lot of sports cars to the US.

Bryce.

[Gryzor]

@nocash: you're still getting off-topic, please do take care of it. This is not a thread about either rock bands or motorcycle companies...

[villain]

Regarding the different Triumph companies, I think the Cars, Motorcycles and Bicycles Triumph was all the one company and not different ones with the same name. But I could be wrong.

Maybe this will help:


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_(Nürnberg)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Motorcycles#Geschichte

[nocash]

Just read wikipedia, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_(TWN)
So who is offtopic? The motorcycle manufacturer and the typewriter/computer manufacturer were originally the same company.

[Gryzor]

Yes, so let's all discuss the finer points of their bikes' mechanics, shall we?

[nocash]

> Yes, so let's all discuss the finer points of their bikes' mechanics, shall we?
Not at all. Just some short words on the background of the company, like the side note on Schneider Rundfunkwerke on the Schneider page. Background info on the unused brand names is maybe not too relavant - but on the other hand, I think almost everybody who owned a CPC has wondered what those names are about - so I think they really should be mentinioned on cpcwiki.

Half-finished article summarizing the brand names is here, http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/LK-selectable_Brand_Names. Most descriptions are (hopefully) referring to the correct companies. The Isp and Triumph sections are necessarily speculative, but they are marked as such, so it's up to the reader to decide if and which speculations are reasonable.

NB. The link to [[Arnold]] goes to the Arnold Emulator? I got sorts of trapped there (the link on the Roland page goes there, too).

[Gryzor]

NB. The link to [[Arnold]] goes to the Arnold Emulator? I got sorts of trapped there (the link on the Roland page goes there, too).

Hmmmm indeed, there's a problem with that. This is a clear disambiguation problem, but I've never used the template so I'm not sure... I'll look into it.

As it stands, the disambiguation is between:

-Arnold as a CPC codename
-Arnold the emulator.

[arnoldemu]

Hmmmm indeed, there's a problem with that. This is a clear disambiguation problem, but I've never used the template so I'm not sure... I'll look into it.

As it stands, the disambiguation is between:

-Arnold as a CPC codename
-Arnold the emulator.

Well the emulator was named after the "Arnold" prototype.
But you are free to make a Arnold (emulator) page?