The Story of Amstrad CPC in Pixels...

[Puresox]

The roof is on fire !
lol

[TFM]

I don't see the problem of the classic PCWs being in such a publication, given that many Amstrad magazines back in the day had PCW sections or submagazines within. I think the NC100/200 could have a page or two too.

Yes, and maybe the PDA600, also the Amstrad PCs, I mean the Euro PC looks like a CPC, oh wait that was from Schneider. So all Amstrad and Schneider PCs, then the best is to add all PCs from that era and CPC similar systems maybe too. Well, why not make a book about PCs and forget about the CPC. 

[MacDeath]

Which game? I have patched a few ones (Rocky/Rocco was the last one) , because the programmer decided to use the firmware 1.0 variables or calling to the firmware rom directly, instead of using the firmware jumpblock. Although they are easy to fix, it's so boooooring process

Wasn't Rocky/rocco on CPC coded by Richard Stevenson ?  should ask him, he may even have the source...oops, too late... you already patched it.

[TFM]

About 464 and 6128 compatible programs... My first CPC was the 6128 and I'm damn glad that I never had to deal with cassettes. I saw people doing that on the c64 and they grow an inch of beard while loading a crappy game.

Now whenever a journal printed a great listing for the CPC; more often it did run only on the 464. Once in a while some month later a patch was released to make it 664/6128 compatible. That worked 50% of the time 

Now if 464 people complain about 6128 programs not running - no mercy - welcome in my early years! 

But a bit more serious, go to CPC power or where ever and you get 99.7% compatible to all CPCs and also the Plus series (most often).

SyX and others did a great job fixing things. Thank's guys! 

[steve]

I have a beard, was my 464 to blame? 

[chinnyhill10]

I don't see the problem of the classic PCWs being in such a publication, given that many Amstrad magazines back in the day had PCW sections or submagazines within.

This was done when the machines were very new, as a precursor to splitting the machines out into their own magazines. It was a smart piece of business practice to establish new magazines, not an indication than the PCW was part of the CPC range.


If you want another example, Zzap 64 had Amiga coverage at one stage before it was split out. That doesn't mean the Amiga and C64 are the same machine.

[TFM]

I have a beard, was my 464 to blame? 

No, it was watching c64 tape loading. 

[MacDeath]

Basically what could cause 464 and 6128 not being compatible ?

=Ram
=ROM/firmware used by program
=CRTC models/tricks

is that all ?


Concerning the PCW : it is not a CPC but quite a cousin...
Many similarities and many differences as well.

Most PCW games were somewhat CPC ports.
Just watch head over heels, Sol Negro and others...
Just they somewhat turned the 4 colours Mode1 into "3 colour dithered Mode2 equivalent.

So the PCW may have some mentions over the fact Amstrad failed to make the CPC and PCW merge at one point.

To me the PLUS should have been compatible with both systems but yeah, would have been quite more expensive.

Lets see :
=More ASIC features/settings so PLUS could also use the same memory map as PCW and a firmware to emulate it.
=a beeper added with extra features to run samples in DMA.
=memory slots to upgrade into at least 256k on mainboard via extra cards.

Yeah, looks like an 8bit Atari STe...

Any machine closely related to CPC specification wise should be mentionned indeed.

Enterprise64/128 as well, even NEC PC6601... and clones of course.

[Carnivius]

What a weird argument that all was.

I don't like the Plus machines much (I wouldn't mind owning one to play about with if I was given one but I've absolutely no desire to buy them or produce anything for them) but they are certainly part of the CPC range even if they lack that acronym in their model names.   That was the main reason they were a failure.  They were TOO similar to the old machines in the age of the Amiga.  Now if they'd had the specs of the Amiga but still be able to play CPC games too... that would have been nice...

[CraigsBar]

What a weird argument that all was.

It certainly brought about a short and (only slightly) off topic exchange. I think I have learned that we will never all agree on the Plus machines. I personally prefer them to the CPC range. they look better, are nicer to type on for extended periods of time (I did my entire University degree course on my 6128plus and Brunword Elite) thay have the ability to play 'Pang!' and I know this will open a whole new can of worms but Zap't'balls the advanced edition is not even close to being as good a game as that.


While I do agree that Amstrad made some fundmental mistakes with the plus range (Tape Ports & Disk interfaces missing, 8 bit printer ports present but not really usable etc) to me they are superior simply for the One or 2 fantastic cart games, better looks and nicer Keyboard angle and height..


Craig 

[Carnivius]

they look better

That's still an opinion though. Personally I always found them bland and not having as much 'character' (something I really like about vintage computers compared to modern).  I also really dislike all that extra bulk they have at the back.   It's also one of the many reasons I far preferred my A1200 to my friend's A500.  Can't have the monitor as close to the back of the computer as I'd like without using a particular desk that has a shelf for the monitor but still allows easy access to the sides of the computer itself to insert media and cables and such.   Despite the height of my 464's keyboard I've never had any real issues typing on it and I'm pretty fast on it when I need to be and never had any wrist pains or anything like that (which I had a lot of with a god-awful 'gaming keyboard', a term I still find pathetic, that came with one of my old PCs). 

Anyways point is I've no problem with the Plus range being in a CPC book even if I think they were a big mistake by Amstrad.

[dcdrac]

I have said it before with the Plus range Amstrad should have gone 16 bit, added an emulator, and offered a 3 inch disc drive kit as an optional extra.

[Gryzor]

Guys, please put the discussion in some perspective: yes, we occasionally (ahem) drift off-topic, but this thread supposedly exists to bolster some interest for the book. If we veer too far towards technicalities about swapped CPUs or arguments about the Plus (they certainly were CPCs btw ), what will we have accomplished? Please do open a new thread if you want to discuss those and keep this clean.

Now, where were we? Oh yes, the BOOK!

[SyX]

And that thread in Facebook is transforming in a meeting of old CPC developers, with people like Brian Beuken or Roger Womack speaking really proud of why they loved the CPC

[MacDeath]

to continue/end the PLUS debate :

look better

mater of taste.
ORIC ATMOS is still the best looking machine ever...

better keyboard?

the exact same as on the CPC6128 actually...

Far more powerfull

well, on pure graphicals, just to choose on the 4096 instead of the 27 RGB cubes makes a lo of difference for pixel art in Mode0. some would stick to old palette, it is more challenging and definitaly has its style...
PLUS graphics looks like ST/STE/aMiga larger pixeled version, simply... which is good but almost "too easy" for 8 bit style...
Otherwise those few scrolings or hardsprites or interrupts or sound DMA can surely add some CPU time here and there and be put in good use. So some cartridge games managed to be awesome finally...
(PanzaKickB., Pang, Robocop2, NavySeal, Plotting, MagicPinbal, any tennis game, even Switchblade despite being mode1.

But it remains mostly a CPC so have to have its mention in any CPC related book anyway...
Its true potential actually was just scratched so slightly.

but to be fair, the software legacy for PLUS is not as huge as the CPC's one, so...

And that thread in Facebook is transforming in a meeting of old CPC developers, with people like Brian Beuken or Roger Womack speaking really proud of why they loved the CPC

actually a lot of old devs did post on the facebook "Amstrad CPC464" group...

would be quite interesting to compile all their quote indeed.
Rich stevenson (amongst otehrs I guess) recently posted quite a lot of stories or anecdotes, be it here or there, and others oldtimer devs as well.

Could be nice source/material to track and compile those casual yet interesting comments.


Also would be nice that many of those old timer official devs would come back via internet to share their point of view and experience.
Now we have an interactive community that wasn't possible in the 80's... great to (re-)write history and share the story.
Hope this will become a trend.

Could it be possible to have a standard interview template for such case ?
So we may compare them all by submiting this to all of them..

[dlfrsilver]

And that thread in Facebook is transforming in a meeting of old CPC developers, with people like Brian Beuken or Roger Womack speaking really proud of why they loved the CPC

Brian Beuken proud of coding Rastan from Taito for ocean on amstrad CPC ? AHAH XD

Really, CNGsoft has corrected the big flaw in the game loader which for a start doesn't allow to load the boss levels either disk and tape.
To make the game load correctly, you must chop off the error routine inside the loader to force the game to load them XD !

/off topic - end

[SyX]

You can think what you like, but i have been speaking a while with those amazing guys and others as James Higgins, and one thing is that they had a lot of pressure from the publishers to finish those games in a few weeks and other very different one that they declare themselves as CPC lovers, sorry, this thread has degenerated in a way, that is shameful, very shameful... i only asked about a few games for a book of cpc games and everybody has been speaking about the genitals of angels or another ON-TOPIC themes.

And fixing programs is nothing (i have fixed a LOT without making so many noise) when you compare it with making full games.

PS: Sorry, if it sounds too strong, but you must understand that in this freaking moment i am speaking with James Higgins about John Brandwood, sorry but this fanboy is going to piss himself of emotion xDDDDD

[MacDeath]

everybody has been speaking about the genitals of angels

what is this I don't even...

(they don't have genitals but some of them may have boobs and hips...)

yeah, many games had big unfixed bugs on release, seems like Deadline was a real pleague in those times and editors wouldn't even patch to save their life.

Remember the Green issue with rick dangerous 2 ? not like it couldn't be seen nor easily fixed.

[dlfrsilver]

You can think what you like, but i have been speaking a while with those amazing guys and others as James Higgins, and one thing is that they had a lot of pressure from the publishers to finish those games in a few weeks and other very different one that they declare themselves as CPC lovers, sorry, this thread has degenerated in a way, that is shameful, very shameful... i only asked about a few games for a book of cpc games and everybody has been speaking about the genitals of angels or another ON-TOPIC themes.

And fixing programs is nothing (i have fixed a LOT without making so many noise) when you compare it with making full games.

PS: Sorry, if it sounds too strong, but you must understand that in this freaking moment i am speaking with James Higgins about John Brandwood, sorry but this fanboy is going to piss himself of emotion xDDDDD

(Well about higgins, i wonder if D. Ward was hard to work with guy, has he talked about him ?). btw, you heard about The apprentice from Rainbow Arts ? It was Brian Beuken if i remember well who was in charge of it on CPC.... maybe you could ask him ?

About J. Brandwood, aka Elmer fudd, i had since many years the Ocean custom sprite and map editor, thanks to a french at Ocean France
These tools are the roots of Batman the movie and robocop on CPC (those 2 games were made graphically on atari ST for CPC).

[SyX]

btw, you heard about The apprentice from Rainbow Arts ? It was Brian Beuken if i remember well who was in charge of it on CPC.... maybe you could ask him ?

He has said that in that FB thread or the other one where the old coders are speaking about their old projects (i have added the credits to 10 sheets in CPC-Power with the info that they have spoken in that threat), he said that it was his best game and it was finished, but he only has spoken about the ZX version, i will ask him about the CPC one.

[arnoldemu]

what is this I don't even...

(they don't have genitals but some of them may have boobs and hips...)

yeah, many games had big unfixed bugs on release, seems like Deadline was a real pleague in those times and editors wouldn't even patch to save their life.

Remember the Green issue with rick dangerous 2 ? not like it couldn't be seen nor easily fixed.

it is the same of modern games. Released with bugs.

On tablets you get many updates to fix problems etc.

On xbox and other consoles you can also download patches to fix bugs.

[ralferoo]

Really, CNGsoft has corrected the big flaw in the game loader which for a start doesn't allow to load the boss levels either disk and tape.
To make the game load correctly, you must chop off the error routine inside the loader to force the game to load them XD !

A friend of mine used to write protected loaders for the spectrum back in the day. He'd get a copy of the game saved as a normal speccy file about 9am, told where he had a spare couple of KB of RAM and be expected to have produced a protected loader by 12 noon when the courier guy would arrive to take his tape to the duplicators.

As he often spent quite a bit of time filling any spare memory with "humorous" messages, there wasn't much time to actually test the game very much. This particular game won't have been his work, but I know he worked on multiload games with a similar timeframe, so I'm not at all surprised to hear that some games got made with buggy loaders and made it out to customers...

[Gryzor]

I don't care much about Facebook, but I'll make an exception here - the project has its own FB group now

https://www.facebook.com/groups/378021049024479/

[SyX]

I don't care much about Facebook, but I'll make an exception here - the project has its own FB group now

https://www.facebook.com/groups/378021049024479/

I always used fb for family things, but this group is amazingly addictive!!!

I have been speaking today with another legend, Stefan "Pirates" Walker, and he has so many to talk. For example, for porting Pirates to CPC, he was sent to USA during a full year for working directly with Sid Meier and because the big maps and the complex logic, he decided that the game would be exclusive for 6128.

He converted the code from 6502 to z80, line to line and in moments of doubt he had the input of the original designer

Now i understand better why Pirates is one of the best CPC games and even beat to the original C64 version.

[dcdrac]

I always used fb for family things, but this group is amazingly addictive!!!

I have been speaking today with another legend, Stefan "Pirates" Walker, and he has so many to talk. For example, for porting Pirates to CPC, he was sent to USA during a full year for working directly with Sid Meier and because the big maps and the complex logic, he decided that the game would be exclusive for 6128.

He converted the code from 6502 to z80, line to line and in moments of doubt he had the input of the original designer

Now i understand better why Pirates is one of the best CPC games and even beat to the original C64 version.

I loved Pirates on the CPC and I loved Origin's Times of Lore, EA Bards Tale not so much