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General Category => Off topic => Topic started by: fano on 14:44, 28 June 10

Title: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: fano on 14:44, 28 June 10
lol Markus

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[off-topic mode]
It's an interesting story; for those who don't know: once upon a time typewriters used an alphabetical-sorted keyboard (ABCDEF....). But as secretaries became more proficient and fast in their typing the machines started to jam. So they designed QWERTY specifically to slow typists down. Coooool! And then the French said "Oh, but we can't have the banal, universal layout! We need to create one of our own! But maybe not make it totally different because that would be awkward... so let's make a few subtle changes!"[/off-topic mode]
lol it is a bit more complicated than that but we will not pollute anymore the subject with it  ;) (a complete thread would be needed to arguate about this)
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: Gryzor on 15:24, 28 June 10
Ok, so enlighten us, will you? :)
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: TFM on 00:52, 29 June 10
Well, in the old times (TFM and his Fossil-OS have already been invented, like the wheel and fire...) the letters have been brought in that position, because in the used order they DO NOT jam that easiely.
It's right the girls have been typing more quick and quick (because they earned less and less per letter...), so they had to adjust the typewriter layout in a way that provides the best chance for a jam-free day.
And since in different languages the different letters are used in different amounts in contexts, the typwriters layouts have been changed depending on the language.
 
 
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: fano on 01:26, 29 June 10
You're right, AZERTY layout exists because it has been adapted to the French language.Theoricaly , the most used keys must be the most difficult to get.Another boring difference is digits must be "shifted" with a French layout.It is horrible when you do not own a numerical keypad.
Anyway , my first computer was a QWERTY 6128 and that was boring for me to get a PC with an AZERTY keyboard after.I am still able to type on an AZERTY keyboard with a QWERTY layout (usefull at work when network settings problems)
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: remax on 11:00, 29 June 10
I am still able to type on an AZERTY keyboard with a QWERTY layout (usefull at work when network settings problems)

Every french who spent some times under MS DOS has the same ability ('cause of lack of KEYB in certain CONFIG.SYS config to free memory)  ;)
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: Gryzor on 12:10, 29 June 10
Glossologically speaking, I really don't think the difference between French and the rest of the latin-rooted world are so great as to warrant a different keyboard. I do bet they did it just to be 'different'.
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: fano on 14:55, 29 June 10
Lol sometimes that give good things (metric system) , sometimes not  :P

You will notice Dvorak disposition owns a specific version too for French language.
Note too German made their own QWERTZ variant.
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: Gryzor on 10:41, 30 June 10
Yes, and I think Belgians did, too. But I'm still not convinced they did it for practical reasons. Mind, the Dvorak layout is very well designed so it's bound to be specific for each language. But xxERTY... give me a break! :D
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: MacDeath on 12:36, 30 June 10
Almost every country has its own xxerty layout....
I even remember a friend of mine had a qwertzoy....sort of...

I used to tell him his keyboard was from southern Glookistan... (gloukistan du sud...)  ;D


I alway felt the azerty is somewhat not well designed, mostly concerning the "accents" management...
ç, à, è, é, ù...have their own key...but when you want to write in foreigner languages...it is not that good.

^, ¨ or ~ can be put on some other keys : ê ë ñ... but we don't have the german SS (oops, godwin point... lol...)...er...the simili double SS (essette ?)

or the nordic "O" + "/"...


A european keyboard should include more keys to modify letters in accordance to all the special characters and would be great...
But English speaker would see this as useless, as they don't use those characters.

Yet a lot of french words exist in english... how can they write "Cliché" with no "é" ???

In Madrid, I really like the Spanish Keyboard, its only fault is having a key especially for the ñ...  :-\ but the accent management was great and it is actually quite good even when writing in french.


I used to have the idea of a keyboard with screen-keys... so the key actually display what it is supposed to write...
And I realised some russians are actually producing it...

Was in Prototype phase...should look at it again.

but this would be quite expensive as mini LCD screen inside each keys....well...


Could an amstrad CPC support a keyboard with more keys ? or enabling more symbols per key ?

The 12345.... keys on CPC enable only 2 characters...while it enables 3 on modern PC.

exemple : 3 " #... 4 ' { 5 ( [...an so on.


But French keyboard is not good concerning bold letters... how can a get a bold "à" or "é" ??? I can't really... (shift+key give numbers...)

 
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I really don't think the difference between French and the rest of the   latin-rooted world are so great as to warrant a different keyboard.
It was almost a political issue/matter...
Remember that from a time when Computers were with built in keyboards...This could be important matter, we remember the CPC472...which was a way to prevent building extra keyboards...yet as Spain was one of the main CPC market, they still did the ñ keyboard...

Was Amstrad CPC built with a greek keyboard ? did they build Arab keyboards versions too ?


The greek keyboard must be interesting, shitton of letters actually, as it must feature both Latin and Greek Alphabets... Russians keyboards must be quite complicated too... or even a Polish or Turkish keyboard...


(http://www.tousergo.com/images/products/clavier_pour_enfant.jpg)
Looks like a CPC464...sort of.

(http://www.techrevision.com/contentimages/lcd_keyboard.jpg)

(http://assets.gearlive.com/blogimages/luxeed.jpg)

(http://assets.gearlive.com/blogimages/quantumoledquake.jpg)(http://assets.gearlive.com/blogimages/quantumoledps.jpg)

OLED keyboard... expensive but so kool...

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/ (http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/)

OMFG !!! 1667 €uros ??? wow...

But a shame actually, they did it too good.. a Monochrome version would suffice...and mey be far less expensive...

This one looks like a Millionnaire's toy... and it is certainly one.

Thank god you can test it for free there :
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/demo/
impressive.
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: mahlemiut on 01:57, 01 July 10
The Aleste Russian keyboard just looks confusing.
http://aleste520.narod.ru/justt-an-aleste.jpg

At least Japan stuck with QWERTY layouts...
http://mess.redump.net/_detail/sysinfo:x68000-keyboard.gif?id=sysinfo%3Ax68000
Title: Re: AZERTY vs QWERTY
Post by: Gryzor on 10:01, 01 July 10
There were no 'greek' keyboard I can remember of. They started sticking the Greek letters in the PC era... in any case, there were no Greek ROMs. So if you wanted the greek charset you'd have to modify the existing one - lots and lots of type-ins started with modifying the characters for the game to have greek text in it...