New 'Double Dragon' game.

[sigh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5sB7vIeoeY

[Gryzor]

Oh yeah, just what it needed! Generic cute anime characters! 

[sigh]

I'm more concerned about the lack of the hair grabbing 'knee to the face' move

[andycadley]

Marion as a playable character might have been an interesting choice, much better than always being the damsel in distress, but giving her a gun seems straight up weird and likely to unbalance the fighting aspect surely? Also not sure I'm that keen on the SF2-esque magic-ky type effects - I think I preferred DD when it felt more realistic.

[Gryzor]

Yeah, DD was of the Renegade ilk. Gritty and real. Only thing left to do is add dinosaurs...

Oh wait

[sigh]

Also not sure I'm that keen on the SF2-esque magic-ky type effects - I think I preferred DD when it felt more realistic.

I agree on the gritty feel of the original. Double Dragon and Renegades wild punching animations, made it feel like a scrappy street fight. Also - the enemies in Double Dragon weren't that much different from you, had a good range of moves and were also competent in using them.

[Anthony Flack]

Cutified modern-retro Double Dragon hits me the wrong way too. It looks like the new Ninja Turtles game but that's an odd vibe for DD. Maybe they based it on the NES game. 

The screen-rippling shockwave effect is hard on the eyes and seems to happen a lot. Something tells me this game is likely to include some kind of grinding for XP.

[Gryzor]

This reminded me (not very similar, but still) of the episodic Monkey Island reboot they did several years ago, depicting Guybrush as a hipster, always spurting anachronistic 'jokes'. I uninstalled within minutes. 

[sigh]

Despite not liking the characters designs, what I do like about this new Double Dragon are the characters animations. I wonder if they will remix all the music tracks?

[Carnivius]

Yeah, DD was of the Renegade ilk. Gritty and real. Only thing left to do is add dinosaurs...

Oh wait

Well yeah, Double Dragon has been silly for aaaages.  It's origins are from the Kunio-Kun series much like Renegade was but also River City Ransom, Super Dodgeball and such which is why the Double Dragon characters (particularly the versions from Double Dragon Neon, my fave game in the series) are in the River City Girls games currently made by Wayforward, with Marian already playable in RCG2.   Double Dragon was created as a Kunio-Kun game originally but developed with a style designed to appeal to the more western audience.

And while I'm not sure about how immature the sprites look here, this still looks way better than the godawful live action movie and cartoon series of the early 90s.  Looks like a fun game.  

I'm happy they went with blonde hair Billy (the hair colours of the brothers been annoyingly inconsistent for decades) though not sure why Jimmy now has black hair instead of brown...

[Carnivius]

This reminded me (not very similar, but still) of the episodic Monkey Island reboot they did several years ago, depicting Guybrush as a hipster, always spurting anachronistic 'jokes'. I uninstalled within minutes.

Which was that?  Tales of Monkey Island?   The series has always had anachronisms.   For example a Grog vending machine appears in the very first game, second and fourth too.

[andycadley]

This reminded me (not very similar, but still) of the episodic Monkey Island reboot they did several years ago, depicting Guybrush as a hipster, always spurting anachronistic 'jokes'. I uninstalled within minutes.

Which was that?  Tales of Monkey Island?  The series has always had anachronisms.  For example a Grog vending machine appears in the very first game, second and fourth too.

In fairness, that makes sense when you know The Secret of Monkey Island (as per the latest installment) even if it seemed weird at the time.

Tales... was a very disappointing installment though, I had it on Wii download and only played it through once (and that with constant references to a walkthrough guide as I recall).

[andycadley]

Yeah, DD was of the Renegade ilk. Gritty and real. Only thing left to do is add dinosaurs...

Oh wait

Well yeah, Double Dragon has been silly for aaaages.  It's origins are from the Kunio-Kun series much like Renegade was but also River City Ransom, Super Dodgeball and such which is why the Double Dragon characters (particularly the versions from Double Dragon Neon, my fave game in the series) are in the River City Girls games currently made by Wayforward, with Marian already playable in RCG2.  Double Dragon was created as a Kunio-Kun game originally but developed with a style designed to appeal to the more western audience.

Sure, but I wish they'd just kept that style. DD 1 was a great game (albeit with a slightly odd two player ending if you think about it) and DD2 had a cool metaphor underpinning it ("if you seek revenge, first dig two graves") which seems unusually deep for arcade games of that era. Admittedly the third (and probably subsequent installments) and NES versions were well into silly territory though, even if not quite up to Renegade 3 levels.

I don't think I ever saw the film. Probably for the best from what I heard.

[Carnivius]

In fairness, that makes sense when you know The Secret of Monkey Island (as per the latest installment) even if it seemed weird at the time.

Tales... was a very disappointing installment though, I had it on Wii download and only played it through once (and that with constant references to a walkthrough guide as I recall).

I thought it made enough sense from the end of Monkey Island 2.

I really enjoyed Tales though.  Played through it 2 or 3 times complete.  That and Back to the Future are the only Telltale games I had fun with.  Walking Dead, Batman, Wolf Among Us etc, did nothing for me.

[Carnivius]

Sure, but I wish they'd just kept that style. DD 1 was a great game (albeit with a slightly odd two player ending if you think about it) and DD2 had a cool metaphor underpinning it ("if you seek revenge, first dig two graves") which seems unusually deep for arcade games of that era. Admittedly the third (and probably subsequent installments) and NES versions were well into silly territory though, even if not quite up to Renegade 3 levels.

I don't think I ever saw the film. Probably for the best from what I heard.

I think the main problem here might be that most CPC gamers experienced the british ports of Double Dragon and to them that was what DD has always been when it actually comes from a very japanese series of games and had a much longer range of titles after the godawful Double Dragon 3.   The NES games kinda did their own thing a bit.  Super Double Dragon on the SNES was an all new game then.  Double Dragon V is a crap fighting game based on the cartoon.  Double Dragon on the Neo Geo is an alright fighting sorta tied to the movie but not really.  Rage of the Dragons is an excellent fighting game that was supposed to be sequel to that first Neo Geo fighting game but couldn't quite get the rights so exists as an unofficial game but one of the best in the series (even if it's not a scrolling beat 'em up).  Double Dragon Advance on GBA was a revamp of the first game. I really dislike the style and pixel art in it but it plays well.   Double Dragon Neon on PS3/X360/PC (and later Steam) is a scrolling beat 'em up using 3D graphics and is a western game but pretty much a love letter to the goofy charm of old DD and the 80s in general (and fantastic soundtrack too.  The ending theme song is such fun).   Double Dragon IV is a piece of shovelware garbage made by Arc Systems Works who own the license.  It's hugely negative reception is probably why they're trying this sorta cuter style to try win back some of the fans they put off with DDIV. 

Point is some of the stuff in the new game's style and gameplay might seem bit weird if only really played the original games but it following the series for so long it dont seem that random to me. but yeah not too sure how to feel about this new one til I can play it.  But it at least looks like a lot better than Double Dragon IV which was recycled crap without even a consistent art style (old NES sprites slapped onto photoshoppy looking backgrounds and crap like that).

[Carnivius]

Found an old bit of Double Dragon fan-pixel-art I did back in 2019 I think it was, if anyone's interested to see. Bit rough but eh, it did what I needed it to at the time.

[Gryzor]

This reminded me (not very similar, but still) of the episodic Monkey Island reboot they did several years ago, depicting Guybrush as a hipster, always spurting anachronistic 'jokes'. I uninstalled within minutes.

Which was that?  Tales of Monkey Island?  The series has always had anachronisms.  For example a Grog vending machine appears in the very first game, second and fourth too.

Ah... I don't remember. Lemme check... oh yes, the one with the stupid goatee  

I do know the originals had anachronisms in them, but these were very cleverly made. Whereas in this series it was cringey af, with a constant sense of "haha look at how funny this is".

[Gryzor]

Found an old bit of Double Dragon fan-pixel-art I did back in 2019 I think it was, if anyone's interested to see. Bit rough but eh, it did what I needed it to at the time.

Much more like it!

[andycadley]

Sure, but I wish they'd just kept that style. DD 1 was a great game (albeit with a slightly odd two player ending if you think about it) and DD2 had a cool metaphor underpinning it ("if you seek revenge, first dig two graves") which seems unusually deep for arcade games of that era. Admittedly the third (and probably subsequent installments) and NES versions were well into silly territory though, even if not quite up to Renegade 3 levels.

I don't think I ever saw the film. Probably for the best from what I heard.

I think the main problem here might be that most CPC gamers experienced the british ports of Double Dragon and to them that was what DD has always been when it actually comes from a very japanese series of games and had a much longer range of titles after the godawful Double Dragon 3.  The NES games kinda did their own thing a bit.  Super Double Dragon on the SNES was an all new game then.  Double Dragon V is a crap fighting game based on the cartoon.  Double Dragon on the Neo Geo is an alright fighting sorta tied to the movie but not really.  Rage of the Dragons is an excellent fighting game that was supposed to be sequel to that first Neo Geo fighting game but couldn't quite get the rights so exists as an unofficial game but one of the best in the series (even if it's not a scrolling beat 'em up).  Double Dragon Advance on GBA was a revamp of the first game. I really dislike the style and pixel art in it but it plays well.  Double Dragon Neon on PS3/X360/PC (and later Steam) is a scrolling beat 'em up using 3D graphics and is a western game but pretty much a love letter to the goofy charm of old DD and the 80s in general (and fantastic soundtrack too.  The ending theme song is such fun).  Double Dragon IV is a piece of shovelware garbage made by Arc Systems Works who own the license.  It's hugely negative reception is probably why they're trying this sorta cuter style to try win back some of the fans they put off with DDIV. 

Point is some of the stuff in the new game's style and gameplay might seem bit weird if only really played the original games but it following the series for so long it dont seem that random to me. but yeah not too sure how to feel about this new one til I can play it.  But it at least looks like a lot better than Double Dragon IV which was recycled crap without even a consistent art style (old NES sprites slapped onto photoshoppy looking backgrounds and crap like that).

I do remember DD4, I played the demo and it was truly awful - I think I just ignored it as mostly modern shovelware that trades on a classic game name (see also every Impossible Mission after the second). The GBA DD Advance was great though, it pretty much sits permanently in the GBA slot on my DS since I bought it (not that I use it much any more though).

Never played the Neo Geo or PSX Double Dragons though, so maybe the series jumped the Renegade 3 shark a long time ago and I just didn't notice.

[Carnivius]

Never played the Neo Geo or PSX Double Dragons though, so maybe the series jumped the Renegade 3 shark a long time ago and I just didn't notice.

Have you checked out the stories of the original DD trilogy?  First game seems grounded enough.  Mostly.

Second game has Marian being killed and is the 'The Revenge' part of the title.  In the NES port, the villain has supernatural powers and Marian is resurrected.  And... so does the manual of the computer ports.  Go read the Amstrad/Speccy/Amiga/etc manual and it's story section.   It even has a section where it tries to explain the lives system (which has rarely ever needed explaining in a video game) as part of the supernatural Shinto Powers the brothers have been blessed with.  And in the story section, as well as saying Linda (the whip-cracking lady villain seen repeatedly through the first game) learnt dark arts to resurrect bad guys and create mutants, it also states Billy and Jimmy, after resurrecting Marian, will pass through a portal into another space-time continuum. Wuh? 

In Double Dragon 3 (awful game.  The arcade original is often regarded as one of the earliest displays of 'micro-transactions' in that you would enter a shop and use REAL money to buy upgrades, not in-game currency) the villain was... CLEOPATRA! The NES version had Marian possessed by the Cleopatra-like 'Princess Noriam' (that being 'Marion', the alternate spelling of Marian' backwards) but the arcade considered Marian dead so it's just Cleopatra herself and so still leaned hard into the supernatural aspects. 

Basically Double Dragon has almost always been goofy as heck.



By the way in my lil history bit a few posts above I forgot to mentioned there was a truly bad remake of Double Dragon II for the Xbox live arcade subtitled 'Wander of the Dragons'.  I'd scrubbed it from my memory.  It's ugly trash.

[sigh]

I absolutely loved the gameboy advanced version of Double Dragon. The character designs  of the main characters weren't as good, but the gameplay was brilliant. The only thing I wished it had, was the continuous scrolling level which gave it an adventurous feel. I think that the continuous level scrolling alone, is one of the unique things on Double Dragon.

[Anthony Flack]

For Double Dragon and Double Dragon II, the original arcade games, there was a very particular tone (besides the cat sitting on the trash can). That tone was basically that everybody looked like they just stepped out of the Stallone:Cobra movie poster. 1980s ultraviolence. 

But after that, they let any idiot do whatever they wanted with it, and any idiot did. American audiences will likely think of the NES game, not the arcade game, because American audiences always remember the NES version of everything over the arcade game. And the NES game went in more of a Kunio-kun direction, which was appropriate for the NES.

But to me only the original arcade games had that specific DD vibe. And this new toony one looks more like the new Ninja Turtles game than anything.

[Carnivius]

'Any idiot'

I know a couple of the people who worked on the superb Double Dragon Neon.  They're not idiots.

And arcade Double Dragon II still had things like teleportation and a 'shadowy clone' of the Lee brothers.  And those first two games were very colourful.  More like a comic book than the black outfit of Cobra... far more colourful than Renegade.   The generally awful arcade Double Dragon III had a much more gritty grey look than the first two but still went supernatural in the story.

[andycadley]

The 'shadowy clone' is a metaphor for fighting your own demons. It's the culmination of the whole "if you set out for revenge, first dig two graves" idea. In the arcade version Marion is very definitely dead and remains so, the ending is pretty poignant.

The weird "she gets resurrected" thing came from the Nintendo version, presumably assuming kids couldn't deal with a sad ending or something.

[Carnivius]

The 'shadowy clone' is a metaphor for fighting your own demons. It's the culmination of the whole "if you set out for revenge, first dig two graves" idea. In the arcade version Marion is very definitely dead and remains so, the ending is pretty poignant.

As I already said, the resurrection is also in the CPC version's manual which I'm sure all DD2 CPC players have read, right?  No?  Cos it wouldn't be news to anyone if they'd had read it.
Anyways what is this Burnov enemy doing? Seems to disintegrate with his clothes falling down to the ground...which is weird enough. But then reintegrates and comes back to life.  So, how's that make sense?

https://youtu.be/YOxjaxVBNWM?t=648

The weird "she gets resurrected" thing came from the Nintendo version, presumably assuming kids couldn't deal with a sad ending or something.

Perhaps. But the first game on NES is one player only. With Jimmy turning out to be the true villain (a simplification of the bro vs bro 2 player part of the end of the arcade and other ports).  So it's cool to kill your brother in the NES version?      (an event ignored in the NES version of DD2 because that one did have the 2 player mode)