Anyone tried working (not just looking at it for an hour or so) with Windows 8 lately? I was reading this (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html) and I can't agree more than I do with it.
Yes, it loads super-fast, is generally pretty fast, has some nice features (like the task manager, big deal), but in terms of UI... what the fuck were they thinking? An absolute mess of an operating environment, if you're working on a PC. Not to mention that half of the times you're trying to launch a full-screen app it disappears without a trace.
So, here I am, sitting with my shiny new expensive laptop, great screen and a nice resolution, and Microsoft tells me all I need to look at is... a handful of huge icons straight out of 1995? And that I have to move aaaaall the way across the screen to see a few more? Or that I need to have a full-screen app to take a few notes, look at 5 icons showing the weather or three stock quotes?
By god, I hope Windows 9 is around the corner, though programs like Start8 or RetroUI (in contrast to MS' ModernUI) (you know you're in trouble when someone uses words like 'modern', 'cool' etc) do a decent job.
Millenium
Vista
Windows 8
Every few years M$ decide to release a steaming pile of dog-turd and end up having to quickly release a new version to save face. Win8 is the latest in this unfortunate series. We stuck with XP until 7 arrived, now we'll stick with 7 until something better comes along.
Bryce.
(My main PC is SuSE 11.3 :) but I do use Win7 on my Laptop)
They shouldn't force you to use the touch interface on a desktop pc, it's ridiculous.
I still use Windows XP on my home PC and have no intention of upgrading it to any other version of Windows until Microsoft stops supporting it (which I believe is in April 2014). My father's PC came with Windows Vista and I hate it!
I also understand that Microsoft are trying to make Windows 8 a very 'closed' environment in that the user can only download and use software from Microsoft's own online store, and so the software will also require approval from Microsoft - although I think it will still be possible to use 'legacy' software that will be unable to exploit the new features of Windows 8. That alone is a reason for me to boycott Windows 8 - but feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood! >:(
One of the reasons why I'm happy I moved over to Mac three years ago, sadly it means fuck all choice other than to use crippled bug-ridden emulators.
However, I do still have to use Windows from time to time as I am an IT Trainer, so when i fired up Windows 8 for the first time, all i could think was "What the hell is this crap?"
Windows 8 was primarily designed for touch screen devices, and for that purpose, it would be pretty awesome. Sadly, when it comes to my computers, i don't want it to act like a phone (Something Apple have been doing for the last two years incidentally since OSX Lion).
I can't see it taking off in the business sector at all, imagine all the receptionists ringing the IT staff because they can't find the start button? ;)
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 19:20, 20 November 12
One of the reasons why I'm happy I moved over to Mac three years ago, sadly it means fuck all choice other than to use crippled bug-ridden emulators.
Yet another reason to get your real hardware out of storage and enjoy the nostalgic magic that only an original CPC can offer.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:24, 20 November 12
Yet another reason to get your real hardware out of storage and enjoy the nostalgic magic that only an original CPC can offer.
Bryce.
Sadly, that option ceased to exist some 15 years ago. ;)
Then you need to get a new one :)
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:16, 20 November 12
Then you need to get a new one :)
Bryce.
Oh i have contemplated it! But then the other issue is the lack of somewhere to put it.
Nah, my Xbox 1 and ArnoldX is grand for most games, except for the ones that require a keyboard input. :(
Annnnyway... don't wanna completely derail the thread. :)
Well that's made up my mind, I'd better get another copy of Windows 7 before they discontinue selling it. I got pissed off with fecking Ubuntu on the weekend on the system I use for emulators and old games when I updated 12.04 only to find they've removed the over scan slider in the nvidia driver software and had to mess around with the configuration file trying to work out the values I now needed to eliminate my overscan problem over HDMI. Then when I finally got the screen sorted I downloaded a few of my new purchases from gog only to have error messages appear when I tried to install them. Sorted that, loaded the game and then I can't move because the virtual desktop in Wine isn't reading my keyboard inputs. Not sure why they bother with the user interface, I spend half the time in terminal with that piece of crap. >:(
I have to admit I still use Windows XP on a daily basis via virtual machines because of all the legacy software I need to maintain and update. Applications like Visual Studio 2003 (sir-crash-a-lot-without-warning) won't run in Windows 7 (or at least didn't last time I checked) and there's no business requirement to update some of the software developed in it. Although thanks to a series of layoffs and people leaving I've almost exclusively been working in good old Delphi 6 and 7 for the last few months....
I use it at work. I'm not sure about the Ins and Outs of Windows 8, but I don't think it's meant to be used as a Primary Operating System. We're using Windows 8 from a Remote Network Server which is on a Powerful computer which allows about 5 people to access the things which are on it - Database and other applications, but it runs behind Windows 7 and if you're doing Internet with Windows 8, because it's on a remote server, it's slow downloading large files or handling anything which is Graphical. But for what it is, it works well and haven't had any issues with it. If something goes wrong they can easily track it down to that machine rather than maintaining separate remote servers.
@Bryce: Vista wasn't that bad, I've always said that. It was somewhat bloated, but in terms of stability and functionality it was a step forward from XP... Millenium, though, ugh!
@McKlain: precisely that. Even for a touch device I'm not sure their design choices (like hidden charms or swipes going up, down, left and right) make much sense.
@Nich: well, Win7 is definitely better than XP. Heck, I had moved over to Server 2003 from XP long before moving on to 7... With regards to 8, yes, they have this new store, but I'm not sure what the guidelines are; is your app supposed to be eightified, like running full screen? Sucks. I guess it's normal for them to be cautious at first, though - maybe they'll relax things later on. And of course it's fully compatible with everything else...
@Shaun: don't get me started on MacOS, it was bad before Win8 came along :D :D Here's a sample (http://blog.wuwon.id.au/2012/06/trouble-with-os-x-window-manager.html) of what's wrong with its interface choices. Btw, since you mention mobile devices, I think Win8 SUCKS even on those; it's no surprise that, although one can find quite a few interface make-overs for Android that emulate Win8, nobody uses them.
@CP/M: I really didn't understand the setup you're working on??
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:38, 21 November 12rted on MacOS, it was bad before Win8 came along :D :D Here's a sample (http://blog.wuwon.id.au/2012/06/trouble-with-os-x-window-manager.html) of what's wrong with its interface choices.
I can't really agree with a lot of that article, as it was unfairly compared to Linux and KDE.
KDE, in my honest opinion, has been shit for about six years now. It used to be my desktop of choice as a Linux user but once they went to 3.0, it because a bad experience for me that became progressively worse.
OSX is practically a locked down version of BSD with the option of commercial software. It is what it is, i accept that. As i use my machines for mostly multimedia/photography. GIMP is awkward and clunky for my requirements.
Of course, most of my external devices are also Apple, so connectivity wise, i have no issues in that regard. I find it quite manageable, it's interface has been similar for years, and to me, it's how it should be, that way it's easy to transition from one OS revision to the next. Consistency is a vital element.
Some of the article rings true, but they don't make me pull my hair out. I'm with Shaun on this one, I quite like the Apple OS. I also use it for photography so have a load of external hard drives hooked up as well as writing letters etc and appreciate the uncluttered approach. One thing though is Apple mice are absolutely rubbish! I'm sticking with my 10 year old Microsoft mouse. In saying that I also like Windows XP and 7 so I am easy to please as long as I don't have to mess around with Ubuntu.
Quote from: beaker on 18:14, 21 November 12
One thing though is Apple mice are absolutely rubbish! I'm sticking with my 10 year old Microsoft mouse.
Magic trackpad! Been using mine 2 years and counting and it's never let me down. :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:38, 21 November 12
@Bryce: Vista wasn't that bad, I've always said that. It was somewhat bloated, but in terms of stability and functionality it was a step forward from XP... Millenium, though, ugh!
OMG! It gave me Bluescreen twice a day! Now with 7 everything is fine (1-2 bluescreens a month).
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:38, 21 November 12
@CP/M: I really didn't understand the setup you're working on??
Ok, so if you think of it as a Local Computer with Windows on it and then you run your CPC Emulator or something, you've got another system (CPC Based) with another Operating System running behind it, so if it were Winape you would have Windows. Each user at work gets a PC running Windows 7, in my case I've got the 64bit system :) To get to the Remote Computer (which is 50km away or something), I have to log into that using my account/password and once I'm in that it's using Windows 8, though if I minimise that I'm back in Windows 7, the only big difference with that compared to the Emulator is it's a Real Remote Computer.
The technician decided to incorporate this because they worked out that it would suit our purposes to have 1 powerful computer that we could access, rather that a number of separate remote computers which required more maintenance servicing them. I think since that approach has been adopted the system has been more stable and has replace the separate machines which were being used. :)
Regarding window managers, well, it depends on your needs.
As software developer I hate MacOS X, but hey, it has some nice things. Windows is my primary platform with Linux being the OS for tinkering with the machine and old hardware like tape drives.
I'm currently using Windows 7 ultimate and that's not going to change in a long time. I agree that the Windows 8 makes no sense on desktop machines.
And I'm switching to the most lightweight window manager I can find on Linux as long as I can use codeblocks and the terminal XDDDD
Quote from: robcfg on 11:18, 22 November 12
As software developer I hate MacOS X, but hey, it has some nice things.
You hate objective c, what's up with you? :laugh:
I highly dislike the MacOS X interface in general. Objective C is not that bad and XCode is the worst pile of s**t I've ever worked with... ;D
Seriously, we had to disable indexing at work because it had a bug that made XCode eat all the ram and explode.
And I don't know what the hell do I need a 1920x1080 screen if I'm only to see 6 512x512 icons... MacOS X is getting too "touch interface oriented" and Windows 8 is making the same mistake.
@Shaun: I don't think the MacOS guy does any comparison with KDE. He just mentions it a couple of times, but that's that.
@beaker: but his point isn't that it's a bad OS; he's merely discussing a few silly design decisions. What I take from all this is that Apple, in trying to do things "differently", has also managed to screw some things up and make them unecessarily hard and counter-intuitive. NOT that it's a bad OS.
@CP/M: ah, got it. Why didn't you just say "I remote-connect to a Win8 box"? :D
@robcfg: don't dish Win8 so lightly. It has some nice features, is cheap enough and you can always disable the most annoying features. Which is why I'm keeping it. Oh, also, I see that MS is using the same UI style - like Office 2013 (from the little I've used it, it's great) or (surprise, that) the new drivers my Win7 box installes yesterday for my mouse. So, having a consistent-looking UI all over is a plus (no matter that this was my favorite Windows style 15 years ago, downloaded from DeviantArt's skins section).
As far as touch-oriented goes, for a while I was contemplating replacing my home PC with an all-in-one PC/monitors you see out there: I could hang it on the wall and have a very minimal desk in front of it. And lots of them have touch screens, nowadays. However, seriously, I don't know why it'd be easier to manipulate a 27" screen with your hands, ridiculously gesturing in the air while spreading mayo all over the screen (just saying) instead of moving a mouse in a 15x15cm area. Ridiculous.
I'll ditch the keyboard when minority report type floating touch screens are available, not before.
Regarding KDE, I have to agree. I loved KDE until they started all this plasmoid shite. I use the latest KDE 4 at the moment, but I've tuned it back and removed a lot of things that were just annoying. It still leave windose users speechless when I spin the cube to a different desktop and a running video still runs smoothly, half transparent on the rear side of the cube :)
Bryce.
@Gryzor: I don't find it useful or desirable from my point of view. Just imagine having to type thousands of line of code in a virtual 26" keyboard... That's my point.
If you only need to do a few things, and consume media with one click, then it's good for you, but my main use for the computers is programming, so for me it's shit.
I do agree in that the pricing is really good, but anyway, I find myself comfortable with my Win7 Ultimate and I'm not changing it because.
;D
Quote from: robcfg on 15:57, 22 November 12
@Gryzor: I don't find it useful or desirable from my point of view. Just imagine having to type thousands of line of code in a virtual 26" keyboard... That's my point.
If you only need to do a few things, and consume media with one click, then it's good for you, but my main use for the computers is programming, so for me it's shit.
;D
And there you have it, Microsoft want to sell software not make it easy for people to write their own software.
Quote from: steve on 20:06, 22 November 12
And there you have it, Microsoft want to sell software not make it easy for people to write their own software.
Did I miss something? When did Microsoft ever claim that "making it easy for people to write their own software" was one of their goals?
Bryce.
Quote from: robcfg on 12:20, 22 November 12MacOS X is getting too "touch interface oriented" and Windows 8 is making the same mistake.
This is exactly what I was saying.
The essential difference between the two though, is that OSX kept the old interface for those of us who don't have touch screens. They gave us that option.
Microsoft on the other hand, said to it's windows users "This is the way it's going, tough shit, you'll do without your traditional start button and like it!"
And i honestly believe, they'll suffer backlash as a result of it.
Quote from: robcfg on 12:20, 22 November 12
And I don't know what the hell do I need a 1920x1080 screen if I'm only to see 6 512x512 icons... MacOS X is getting too "touch interface oriented" and Windows 8 is making the same mistake.
You need to read Amstrad User and Retro Gamer onscreen. It is nice to be able tilt the screen so its fullscreen A4 and still easily readable. It feels like you are reading a real A4 page. Double that resolution and you could have 2 "real" A4 pages magazine style
Quote from: Bryce on 21:03, 22 November 12
Did I miss something? When did Microsoft ever claim that "making it easy for people to write their own software" was one of their goals?
Bryce.
But that's the whole point of an operating system, to make a computer useable for any purpose within the systems capabilities, clearly microsoft could learn something from studying the CPC with its Firmware and Basic. :P
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:45, 22 November 12
@CP/M: ah, got it. Why didn't you just say "I remote-connect to a Win8 box"? :D
This is the Off-Topic Section, and I would of thought it would have been pretty obvious by now that I like to Blah Blah Blah a bit. :o
@Bryce: even if Minority Report came about, it still wouldn't matter much, I think. Kind like voice-controlled computers, it's just not worth the effort after all. Maybe ok for some applications, but not as a main UI driver.
Also, when did MS say their aim is to make it easy for others to write their own software? Sure, it'd be nice, but I'm not sure it's something to hold against them?
@Rob: I didn't say it's either useful or desirable, the exact opposite is what I'm saying.
@Shaun: actually, I don't know how they'll be able to sell it to the workplace. I do understand the "force the user" approach, because gradual change is not always possible, but this here time we're talking about forcing a ridiculous change.
@ivarf: yeah, and does Apple give a microscope free with that panel? :D
@CP/M: you're welcome ;)
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:54, 23 November 12
@ivarf: yeah, and does Apple give a microscope free with that panel? :D
Do you need at 20" or something? I might be at an advantage having myopia
A magazine page open in portrait, at the distance you normally sit from the monitor? Yeah, it's probably quite small.
Also, I think you mean the opposite of myopia!
I mean myopia, that I can see small things when I take off my glasses. But you are right, if I can not bring it close enough, I cant see it
No, you mean hyperopia, farsightedness.
Myopia=the farthest away the object, the blurrier. Hyperopia=the neares the object, the blurrier (and vice versa in both cases).
Or am I getting something wrong? Anyhow, this is a win8 thread, not one on opthalmology :D