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General Category => Other retro => Topic started by: Neil79 on 01:23, 23 July 15

Title: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Neil79 on 01:23, 23 July 15

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HEngRv1E2v4/VbAsHLPDWXI/AAAAAAAAV_c/hHN3F9wCOx0/s640/IMG_5589.jpg)


QuoteIt's a time to light those candles upon that tasty cake, as both the Commodore Amiga and the Atari ST are celebrating their 30th anniversary. That's right, it's 30 years to this day that the Amiga was launched, and last month it was the Atari ST!


Indie Retro News: The latest free games, indie games and retro news: Happy 30th (http://www.indieretronews.com/2015/07/happy-30th-birthday-amiga-and-atari-st.html)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 10:18, 23 July 15
Great computers indeed... I was only five but I remember I saw them exposed in one of these huge shopping centers, although maybe this was in 1986. Anyway, I was quite fascinated with them. I also remember that I badly wanted a computer system but my parents thought that I was too little for that. A year after they bought me the 6128, a "not so boring computer made for kids that can display some bright colors on the screen" (at least that is what they were told  :) ). Later, in 1989, the parents of a friend of mine bought him an Amiga 500 and I fell in love with the machine. I still remember the big shock that was to see Shadow of the Beast in action for the first time and listen to that music.  Back then, owning an Amiga was only a dream for me. I was nine, the Amstrad had been bought two years before and the Amiga was really expensive. My friend was luckier because he was older, about 14, and he tricked his parents saying that he wanted the machine to help him with the studies  :D .
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: seanb on 11:11, 23 July 15
Back then we all told our parents we needed a computer "to study"  ;D
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 11:21, 23 July 15
Quote from: seanb on 11:11, 23 July 15
Back then we all told our parents we needed a computer "to study"  ;D
And as everyone knows, you need at least 4,096 colours on screen to study effectively, so...  :D
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: CraigsBar on 11:48, 23 July 15
Absolutely. Which is *exactly* why I needed to upgrade from my CPC 464 to a 6128plus when I went from college to uni. Pang had nothing to do with it. Honest, nothing.
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Neil79 on 12:24, 23 July 15
Amstrad CPC 464 -> Atari 2600 -> Amiga 500 -> 386DX 2(DOS) -> PC - > AMIGA 1200 -> Amstrad CPC 6128 -> Sega MegaCD -> C64 -> NES


Was my line up growing up  ;D
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: mr_lou on 12:39, 23 July 15
Quote from: Neil79 on 12:24, 23 July 15
Amstrad CPC 464 -> Atari 2600 -> Amiga 500 -> 386DX 2(DOS) -> PC - > AMIGA 1200 -> Amstrad CPC 6128 -> Sega MegaCD -> C64 -> NES

Was my line up growing up  ;D

You clearly studied a lot more than most of us....
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 13:08, 23 July 15
If we had had a TV with a SCART connector in the 1980s and I could have seen the CPC's gloriously saturated colour palette, maybe the Amiga upgrade would not have felt as necessary. But being stuck with pea soup visuals on a GT-65 as I was, moving from shades of green to Extra Halfbrite and HAM felt monumental.

Too bad AmigaBASIC was so much slower than Locomotive BASIC, despite a faster CPU. The original Macintosh was cursed with the same slow-ass Microsoft Basic.
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Neil79 on 13:22, 23 July 15
Quote from: mr_lou on 12:39, 23 July 15
You clearly studied a lot more than most of us....


Study... What's that?  :o
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: mr_lou on 14:48, 23 July 15
Quote from: Morn on 13:08, 23 July 15Too bad AmigaBASIC was so much slower than Locomotive BASIC, despite a faster CPU. The original Macintosh was cursed with the same slow-ass Microsoft Basic.

I moved onto Amiga long after all my mates had. Made a lot of modules with Protracker.
But I really missed my BASIC programming sessions, so I also took a look at AmigaBasic.
What a pile of disappointment.

It got as little more interesting when Cursor came out (Cursor was a kind of version of AmigaBasic that would compile into an EXE file, making things faster).
But we should probably have tried out Amos or Blitz Basic instead back in those days.
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 15:10, 23 July 15
Quote from: mr_lou on 14:48, 23 July 15
I moved onto Amiga long after all my mates had. Made a lot of modules with Protracker.
But I really missed my BASIC programming sessions, so I also took a look at AmigaBasic.
What a pile of disappointment.

It got as little more interesting when Cursor came out (Cursor was a kind of version of AmigaBasic that would compile into an EXE file, making things faster).
But we should probably have tried out Amos or Blitz Basic instead back in those days.
Amiga E (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_E) was pretty good (and free!), although I never really did any advanced programs with it because it came out so late (1993) when the Amiga was already kind of dead as a platform. And I had no books about Intuition and AmigaOS system calls which I think more complex programs in E would have required.

It was sort of like a cross of C and Pascal. Also see the code examples at Rosetta Code: Category:AmigaE - Rosetta Code (http://rosettacode.org/wiki/AmigaE) They even have the dragon curve which famously appeared in the Jurassic Park novel.
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: mr_lou on 15:59, 23 July 15
Quote from: Morn on 15:10, 23 July 15Amiga E (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_E) was pretty good (and free!)

I was too lazy to start looking into a new language. I wanted BASIC.  :)
I didn't have a PC, but I coded a bit GWBasic at school, and later on some QBasic.
But years later, when someone uploaded a version of the game "Crazy Eights" coded in Blitz Basic, I remember thinking that's what I should have looked into back then.  :)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: TFM on 16:21, 23 July 15
Quote from: Morn on 11:21, 23 July 15
And as everyone knows, you need at least 4,096 colours on screen to study effectively, so...  :D


That way I go my 6128 Plus!  ;)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 17:08, 23 July 15
Quote from: mr_lou on 15:59, 23 July 15
I was too lazy to start looking into a new language. I wanted BASIC.  :)
I didn't have a PC, but I coded a bit GWBasic at school, and later on some QBasic.
But years later, when someone uploaded a version of the game "Crazy Eights" coded in Blitz Basic, I remember thinking that's what I should have looked into back then.  :)
We programmed in Turbo Pascal on DOS at school, so Amiga E did not look too bad. And it was blazingly fast. But I don't know if it would have been suited for games programming. Blitz Basic is much more geared towards games.

Quote from: TFM on 16:21, 23 July 15

That way I go my 6128 Plus!  ;)
But only the Amiga can freely display all those 4,096 colours in a single frame without palette changes, so the Plus loses.  :D

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/HAM6example.png)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: TFM on 19:12, 23 July 15
Quote from: Morn on 17:08, 23 July 15
But only the Amiga can freely display all those 4,096 colours in a single frame without palette changes, so the Plus loses.  :D


Well, my crappy old PC at work can freeeely, without palette changes, in a single frame and bla bla bla display 4294967296 colors, so the Amiga bloodily looses!!!  :D :D :D




About the picture you posted: Does this make heavy use of JPEG compression or why is is to block in the left side? That's pretty ugly for 4096 colors IMHO. Sorry, just my opinion.  :)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 20:54, 23 July 15
Quote from: TFM on 19:12, 23 July 15

Well, my crappy old PC at work can freeeely, without palette changes, in a single frame and bla bla bla display 4294967296 colors, so the Amiga bloodily looses!!!  :D :D :D
I'm pretty sure in 1985 PCs still had EGA at most. But even on a modern PC you cannot pull down a screen with the mouse to reveal a different screen in a different graphics mode the way you could on an Amiga:

(http://theweeks.org/toms-stuff/pics/emulation.gif)


Quote from: TFM on 19:12, 23 July 15
About the picture you posted: Does this make heavy use of JPEG compression or why is is to block in the left side? That's pretty ugly for 4096 colors IMHO. Sorry, just my opinion.  :)
That's a deliberate (and questionable) decision by the artist to make the left side of the image appear blocky and unfinished. (Of course he also has the top left corner come off.) 1980s graphics design at its worst. The program is called Photon Paint by the way.

Here's a better HAM image, and here's a gallery (http://amiga.lychesis.net/colors/HAM.html) with more (turn on CRT simulation with the button in the top-right corner). However, in practice I mostly recall using HAM for showing ray-traced images, e.g. from Reflections/Imagine/Turbo Silver/etc. Few people probably had a photo scanner at the time.

(http://pre09.deviantart.net/0734/th/pre/f/2012/316/a/7/digipaint_fashion_by_don64738-d5krc1b.jpg)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: andycadley on 21:41, 23 July 15
I'm not quite sure HAM mode counts as "without palette changes", given the entire mode works by tweaking the R, G or B component of the previous pixel. It wasn't "blocky" per se, but if you weren't careful you'd get odd colour fringes anywhere that there was a drastic change in colour. It looked amazing compared to anything else at the time, but a bit like badly palletized GIF files when you look back now.

Fantastic machines, although probably not quite as revolutionary as many of it's fans would like to remember it.
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: TFM on 22:26, 23 July 15
Excuses, excuses!  :laugh:   ;)   :)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 22:27, 23 July 15
Quote from: andycadley on 21:41, 23 July 15
I'm not quite sure HAM mode counts as "without palette changes", given the entire mode works by tweaking the R, G or B component of the previous pixel. It wasn't "blocky" per se, but if you weren't careful you'd get odd colour fringes anywhere that there was a drastic change in colour. It looked amazing compared to anything else at the time, but a bit like badly palletized GIF files when you look back now.

Fantastic machines, although probably not quite as revolutionary as many of it's fans would like to remember it.
I just meant you did not have to change the palette for each scanline as e.g. the Atari 8-bit could do. The Amiga could use the Copper chip to get a similar effect as the Atari, but that was not how HAM worked.

And yes, ugly colour fringes were a problem with HAM, particularly if the 16-colour palette was not well chosen. However, given that this was the first time a home computer could display (more or less) photorealistic graphics, few people complained.  :D
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: TFM on 22:30, 23 July 15
Sorry buddy, but the CPC could do this already in 1984.
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 23:39, 23 July 15
Even Mr Spock loves the Amiga! You are not going to argue with Mr Spock are you? That would be...illogical.  :D

(http://amiga.lychesis.net/amiga/Park/_images/Park_Amitrek.tft2.png)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Neil79 on 00:45, 24 July 15
 :laugh:
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: VincentGR on 10:18, 24 July 15
(http://s26.postimg.org/tqdccg0wp/Captain_Kirk_Guru.gif)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 14:07, 24 July 15
I suppose this is a good opportunity to post Markus' "Amiga Boing Ball" CPC Basic Demo (jump to 3:30):


Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: MacDeath on 17:57, 24 July 15
Happy B-Day Amiga 1000...
your A600 picture is invalid.  ;)

Happy b-Day Atari ST.


And Happy B-Day Amstrad CPC 664 & 6128...
AKA the floppy ones...
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 18:59, 24 July 15
Of course no discussion about the early Amiga would be complete without the Amiga Juggler (https://home.comcast.net/~erniew/juggler.html) animation (1986), rendered with an early pre-release version of what would later become Sculpt 3D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sculpt_3D), an influential ray-tracing package. Yeah, keep tossing those balls, baby!  :D

Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: ZbyniuR on 01:09, 25 July 15
Eh, these noises. It is true, that as 8bit computer without a floppy is only half of computer, the same 16bit computer without hard drive is not complete.
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 14:52, 25 July 15
Quote from: ZbyniuR on 01:09, 25 July 15
Eh, these noises. It is true, that as 8bit computer without a floppy is only half of computer, the same 16bit computer without hard drive is not complete.
I think this was recorded in WinUAE, not a real Amiga, so the floppy noises sound a bit too high pitched and scratchy (recorded on an A500 perhaps?). On my Amiga 2000, the floppy sounds more deep and metallic because the A2000 is one giant empty metal box basically. Instead of "feep-feep" it goes FOOOP-FOOOP-FOOP.  :D
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: ZbyniuR on 16:08, 25 July 15
Each of us had different shape of computer and furnitures, so as usually we remember this sounds different than in emulator.

I would like finish my sentence and add - 32bit computer without internet is like bird without wings. ;)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: mr_lou on 16:34, 25 July 15
...and a 64bit computer without Windows is like having superpowers!  :)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: TFM on 16:39, 25 July 15
Quote from: mr_lou on 16:34, 25 July 15
...and a 64bit computer without Windows is like having superpowers!  :)


The same is true especially for 8 bit computers.  ;D ;) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 16:44, 25 July 15
Quote from: ZbyniuR on 16:08, 25 July 15
Each of us had different shape of computer and furnitures, so as usually we remember this sounds different than in emulator.

I just booted the A2000 up a few weeks ago, so there's not much remembering involved.  :)

Those WinUAE samples are probably also recorded with the mike really close to the drive, so they will sound brighter than if you sit in front of a real Amiga, further away from the drive. You are not normally pressing your ears against the floppy drive, which is what a close-miked setup will sound like.  :D
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Bryce on 20:51, 25 July 15
The drive on my A1200 is ridiculously loud. I really need to check it out.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: TFM on 21:42, 25 July 15
Quote from: Bryce on 20:51, 25 July 15
The drive on my A1200 is ridiculously loud. I really need to check it out.

Bryce.


Should use it for drive music then. Isn't that genuine to commodore?  ;)
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: VincentGR on 22:21, 25 July 15
One of my A1200 has a silent drive. It must be veeery quite just to understand it works.

...and yes, if speed kills then windows users will live forever  :P
Title: Re: Happy 30th Birthday Amiga and Atari ST!
Post by: Morn on 14:09, 26 July 15
Amigas were also used by the Prevue Guide system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_(U.S._TV_network)#1980s) in the US in the 80s and early 90s, displaying TV listings for local stations.

Sometimes, the Amiga would crash and TV viewers would see a partly transparent Workbench or a blinking Guru meditation on their TVs:



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