Now, that's something you don't see every day. It appears that a British actor who also is a known retro-computers youtuber, acquired (https://www.commodore.net/product-page/commodore-64-ultimate-basic-beige-batch1) the Commodore brand.
They also have a first official computer launching (https://www.commodore.net/product-page/commodore-64-ultimate-basic-beige-batch1).
There's discussions at Pouet and csdb.
If it's as good as it says, the price point is nice. But somehow I doubt this will go down well...
Yeah, Compute's Gazette's so-called "first edition in 35 years" has a coverage on them. Free download: https://www.computesgazette.com/free-edition/
If it is the real Ultimate64 (from Gideon) under that case (maybe an older batch, not the Elite I/II), then the price is pretty nice.
No resurrection possible.
Its more like snatching corpses.
Stefan
I first heard about this a few weeks ago (7.6.) when Christian (Perifractic) posted his idea of buying Commodore on his channel. At first, I thought it was a silly joke, but then it happened very quickly, so it was probably planned for a while.
Christian 'Peri Fractic' Simpson is a nice guy; I wrote with him a few years ago when he did an episode about SymbOS for the Amstrad PCW.
I have no idea how this will end, but for a start, it sounds very nice that an enthusiastic person like him is now a leading part of the new "Commodore Company" team :D
I wish we could have the same for Amstrad, but I'm not sure how enthusiastic Lord A.M.S. is about the CPC spirit. At least it's very cool and an honor to have the CPC as the title screen of his new website.
to me..this is just silly...
slapping the commodore name on a system doesnt make it a commodore... even if ya have all the licencing...
...and the price is absolutely outrageous
It can't really be any *less* Commodore - they have the licensing, they have a couple of the original C= staff on board. They seem to be doing something with it though and at least trying to reclaim the spirit of the original Commodore.
I'm quietly hopeful, but I fear some bullshit is going to happen *somewhere* and people are going to get screwed over by it.
I might not be a fan of Peri, but I honestly hope them the best and we get a renaissance of cool shit coming from Commodore again.
They have the chicken head logo and the name Commodore and, well, that's really it. They don't own any of the original hardware designs. They don't own the ROMs (or the original agreement with Microsoft to use the BASIC in as many machines as they want).
So right now they can slap the branding on existing products and that seems to be where they're going but visibility is going to be a double edged sword. A guy in his basement knocking up FPGA C64 replacements can probably get away with shipping the ROM, it's not clear someone with as much pressure coverage can.
There have already been multiple attempts to "revive" Commodore by slapping the brand name on cheap Android Phones, mugs or generic tat and none of those have lasted very long.
Quote from: Brocky on 21:04, 13 July 25to me..this is just silly...
slapping the commodore name on a system doesnt make it a commodore... even if ya have all the licencing...
...and the price is absolutely outrageous
My first thought was also "not again" but this one is different from all the other retro gimmicks.
This system is a full working (non emulated) C64 and full compatibility with the original C64 not only on software but also on hardware level.
If that doesn't make it a Commodore what does?
Also the price can't be compared to a cheap emulator with fake keyboard like with the C64 mini. Seems this computer is based on en existing FPGA design and the original FPGA board alone already costs around $250. Without any case, keyboard or software licenses.
That being said I don't really know if there is such a huge market for a computer that in the end is still just a C64. If it's just for games the C64 mini is probably nostalgia enough for the vast majority outside of the community. Let's see if real enthusiasts replace their real C64 with this one. But it will be clearly a nice gimmick on the shelf or next to a TV set (at least the shiny versions).
But they're "selling" that currently without any software licenses. They're "hoping" to sort out the ROM issue or "provide guidance on how to supply your own ROM". Which might be fine for a hobbiest project, played with by people who don't mind tinkering, but the whole advantage of this is supposed to be a "finished product".
Did a video on ChinnyVision 2 where I go through their website and there are certainly questions. The reaction was astonishing. The video questions a few decisions but basically says 'good luck to them but ensure you go into this with your eyes wide open and pay for it on your credit card.
Well you'd have thought I'd personally attacked their grandmothers! Even had what are very obviously bot accounts appear in the comments!
It does look like a good deal but they need to stop pretending they are the original Commodore and trying to legitimise themselves with people like David Pleasance (or the Amiga Brian Butterfield as I call him). You are a group of users who have bought the trademarks and are putting 3 existing products into 1 package for a good price. Great. Stop all this Hollywood film flam and stop saying things like "It's what Jack Tramiel would have wanted'. Who are you, Doris Stokes?*
I wish them well, I really do. It has to work or a lot of people are going to lose their money. And nobody wants to see that.
* One for the teenagers
Quote from: Prodatron on 20:46, 13 July 25I wish we could have the same for Amstrad, but I'm not sure how enthusiastic Lord A.M.S. is about the CPC spirit. At least it's very cool and an honor to have the CPC as the title screen of his new website.
Please can the money men leave the CPC alone! We've held this community together for 30 years, we don't need people sniffing around to see how they can feather their own nests off the back of the work of the people here and other CPC communities around the world.
I'd remind everyone that NONE of this new C64 would be possible without the C64 community efforts. From the file formats like the D64 and T64 through to the documenting of the chips so they can be recreated on an FPGA.
This new company are standing on the shoulders of giants and will take all the glory and money. I don't want that for the CPC. We've managed so far, leave us alone!
Link to the video, please🙂
Quote from: Gryzor on 18:02, 17 July 25Link to the video, please🙂
It's an hour of rambling nonsense but here you go:
ChinnyVision 2 is the secondary channel where I do more random stuff so don't expect it to be exciting or any good. I just speak my brains really.
Cheers, got some brainstorming to do for a project tomorrow, this will be perfect in a side-window
QuoteI fear some bullshit is going to happen *somewhere* and people are going to get screwed over by it.
It's what Jack Tramiel would have wanted.
Tramiel wanted people to believe that Jaguar is 64-bit, and Falcon is better than Mac.
Quote from: ZorrO on 18:04, 19 July 25Tramiel wanted people to believe that Jaguar is 64-bit, and Falcon is better than Mac.
Never heard of the latter before, source?
Maybe it's cause I am a linux guy but I feel that by now the collective mind should have made an 'open source' version of the C64 with PCBs and chips available to any average Joe and their soldering iron.
Quote from: Anthony Flack on 13:09, 19 July 25QuoteI fear some bullshit is going to happen *somewhere* and people are going to get screwed over by it.
It's what Jack Tramiel would have wanted.
Something they keep referring to on their website. I assume they booked Doris Stokes and held a seance. How the hell do they know what he would have wanted?
It's a load of trademarks. Not the original Commodore. That ceased to exist in 94 and was split up. If it was the *real* Commodore then you'd have all the Amiga stuff, ownership of the ROMS and a load of other stuff.l But all you have is a number of trademarks and people are falling for it. Sight.
Because it's Commodore, of course there's a rival faction who also claim to have the right to use the name and logo.
https://commodore.inc/press-release-of-23-july-2025/
Entirely predictable given the messy breakup of the company and how the Amiga situation has played out.
Has the "other" Commodore shown how they've bought the rights and from whom?
Quote from: Gryzor on 10:24, 26 July 25Has the "other" Commodore shown how they've bought the rights and from whom?
Not that I can see but Italian copyright law is a little 'tricky' in this area which is why they have been operating to date without action from the people who the new lot are buying from. Atari Age seem to have more info - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/382268-can-we-save-commodore/page/3/#comment-5680124
Yeah, trademarks can be tricky things. You have to be actively trading with them or they automatically expire. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 23:15, 26 July 25Italian copyright law is a little 'tricky' in this area
The software is copyrighted. The name "Commodore" is trademarked (when selling computer goods). They are completely different things. You can't copyright the word "commodore", because it's an existing english word, not a creation.
Quote from: andycadley on 01:02, 27 July 25You have to be actively trading with them or they automatically expire.
It amazes me that people keep believing this. You really think big business in this era of end-stage capitalism would let trademark law be that hostile to them? The bar to keep a trademark alive is so low it's on the floor, well below "actively traded". As long as there's *anyone* still saying "hey, we own the mark", even if they've got no actual plans to use it, then good luck getting a court to invalidate it.
Quote from: pelrun on 14:24, 27 July 25It amazes me that people keep believing this. You really think big business in this era of end-stage capitalism would let trademark law be that hostile to them? The bar to keep a trademark alive is so low it's on the floor, well below "actively traded". As long as there's *anyone* still saying "hey, we own the mark", even if they've got no actual plans to use it, then good luck getting a court to invalidate it.
It's a really low bar and any effort to defend a trademark is usually sufficient. The fact nobody has been defending the trademark for the last decade is the issue at hand. Although I believe this Italian Commodore outfit have lost attempts to claim the chicken head logo in the past (but have go a variant with CBM on it or something), which suggests their claim isn't as solid as they seem to suggest.
Quote from: pelrun on 14:24, 27 July 25It amazes me that people keep believing this. You really think big business in this era of end-stage capitalism would let trademark law be that hostile to them? The bar to keep a trademark alive is so low it's on the floor, well below "actively traded". As long as there's *anyone* still saying "hey, we own the mark", even if they've got no actual plans to use it, then good luck getting a court to invalidate it.
Sorry but that's *exactly* how copyright works.
If an intellectual property is that important to you, you'll protect it as much as you'll protect your first born!
Not trying to be a dick here, but that's how it works. Don't like it? Move to Cuba!
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 18:52, 27 July 25Sorry but that's *exactly* how copyright works.
If an intellectual property is that important to you, you'll protect it as much as you'll protect your first born!
I think you both misread what I said and got the sense backwards, which is an impressive feat. :P
Quote from: pelrun on 03:50, 28 July 25Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 18:52, 27 July 25Sorry but that's *exactly* how copyright works.
If an intellectual property is that important to you, you'll protect it as much as you'll protect your first born!
I think you both misread what I said and got the sense backwards, which is an impressive feat. :P
You seem to be suggesting that Perifractic's Commodore trademark will stand because "big business". Is that not your opinion?
The way I see it, Perifractic's Commodore isn't "big business" and this crowd from Italy may not be that big, but they're still probably bigger...
No, I said "trademarks don't have to be actively traded to retain their legal protections", and "copyrights aren't trademarks". That's it.
It's only the specific things I quoted that I was responding to.
(the bit about "big business" was "trademark law is written to benefit big business, not hinder it", and expiring trademarks is a hinderance.)
Heard a rumour they paid 2 million Euros for the rights. Ouch.
How many C64 Ultimates do they need to sell to cover that? The sales tracker shows its on about 7000 sales in just under a month but the sales rate has nosedived after the initial launch.
If some of the pre-order money has had to go in to fund this purchase, that could make things even trickier.
Meanwhile the Next is on 5000 for the THIRD batch and I imagine they know their costs pretty well and have everything pretty much nailed on.
I know where I'd stick 300 quid if I had it!
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 13:22, 04 August 25Heard a rumour they paid 2 million Euros for the rights. Ouch.
How many C64 Ultimates do they need to sell to cover that? The sales tracker shows its on about 7000 sales in just under a month but the sales rate has nosedived after the initial launch.
If some of the pre-order money has had to go in to fund this purchase, that could make things even trickier.
Meanwhile the Next is on 5000 for the THIRD batch and I imagine they know their costs pretty well and have everything pretty much nailed on.
I know where I'd stick 300 quid if I had it!
If indeed they want to cover that with this campaign, then... ouch.
But seriously, who would give 2 million for the name?
They're planning to run a business under the name. It'd be mad to do it *just* for a clone C64 which is already designed - and in any case, it sounds like they have a separate licensing agreement for that particular product that will continue even if the overall deal falls through.
Quote from: pelrun on 17:21, 05 August 25They're planning to run a business under the name. It'd be mad to do it *just* for a clone C64 which is already designed - and in any case, it sounds like they have a separate licensing agreement for that particular product that will continue even if the overall deal falls through.
I believe the deal has gone through at this point (accompanied by various extremely cringe photos and videos). Still 2 million in profit that needs to be paid back to somewhere is an awful lot (especially when much of it may be from investors who want actual returns on their investment too).
Maybe the retro market can sustain that much, but I'd be surprised. I will not be the least bit surprised when various Commodore branded merchant starts flooding out to raise cash.
A T shirt licensing deal would probably be the most profitable way to exploit the Commodore brand right now.
But if I was going to start a new business, and the choice was a) be called Commodore or b) have a spare 2 million Euros... well, that money could pay for a lot of things. I hope they didn't pay that much.
Having spoken directly to a couple of people involved, it was a "low 7-figure" sum.
I have pre-ordered the Founder's Edition, looking forward to it as I haven't had the opportunity to pick up an Ultimate board yet.
HD connectivity AND compatibility with old peripherals*? Best of both worlds.
Is it a viable business? Only time will tell, but they certainly seem to be going about it the right way. They are not going to gouge people on license fees, and already have several great creators on board. The direct links to the past with former Commodore staff are nice, but not essential.
* Yes, I'm aware the user port needs an extra connector. That's on the Commodore website too.