Has anyone noticed Commodore's return from the dead?

[pelrun]

Italian copyright law is a little 'tricky' in this area

The software is copyrighted. The name "Commodore" is trademarked (when selling computer goods). They are completely different things. You can't copyright the word "commodore", because it's an existing english word, not a creation.

You have to be actively trading with them or they automatically expire.

It amazes me that people keep believing this. You really think big business in this era of end-stage capitalism would let trademark law be that hostile to them? The bar to keep a trademark alive is so low it's on the floor, well below "actively traded". As long as there's *anyone* still saying "hey, we own the mark", even if they've got no actual plans to use it, then good luck getting a court to invalidate it.

[andycadley]

It amazes me that people keep believing this. You really think big business in this era of end-stage capitalism would let trademark law be that hostile to them? The bar to keep a trademark alive is so low it's on the floor, well below "actively traded". As long as there's *anyone* still saying "hey, we own the mark", even if they've got no actual plans to use it, then good luck getting a court to invalidate it.

It's a really low bar and any effort to defend a trademark is usually sufficient. The fact nobody has been defending the trademark for the last decade is the issue at hand. Although I believe this Italian Commodore outfit have lost attempts to claim the chicken head logo in the past (but have go a variant with CBM on it or something), which suggests their claim isn't as solid as they seem to suggest.

[Shaun M. Neary]

It amazes me that people keep believing this. You really think big business in this era of end-stage capitalism would let trademark law be that hostile to them? The bar to keep a trademark alive is so low it's on the floor, well below "actively traded". As long as there's *anyone* still saying "hey, we own the mark", even if they've got no actual plans to use it, then good luck getting a court to invalidate it.

Sorry but that's *exactly* how copyright works.
If an intellectual property is that important to you, you'll protect it as much as you'll protect your first born!

Not trying to be a dick here, but that's how it works. Don't like it? Move to Cuba!

[pelrun]

Sorry but that's *exactly* how copyright works.
If an intellectual property is that important to you, you'll protect it as much as you'll protect your first born!

I think you both misread what I said and got the sense backwards, which is an impressive feat.  

[andycadley]

Sorry but that's *exactly* how copyright works.
If an intellectual property is that important to you, you'll protect it as much as you'll protect your first born!

I think you both misread what I said and got the sense backwards, which is an impressive feat. 

You seem to be suggesting that Perifractic's Commodore trademark will stand because "big business". Is that not your opinion?

The way I see it, Perifractic's Commodore isn't "big business" and this crowd from Italy may not be that big, but they're still probably bigger... 

[pelrun]

No, I said "trademarks don't have to be actively traded to retain their legal protections", and "copyrights aren't trademarks". That's it.

It's only the specific things I quoted that I was responding to.

(the bit about "big business" was "trademark law is written to benefit big business, not hinder it", and expiring trademarks is a hinderance.)

[chinnyhill10]

Heard a rumour they paid 2 million Euros for the rights. Ouch.

How many C64 Ultimates do they need to sell to cover that? The sales tracker shows its on about 7000 sales in just under a month but the sales rate has nosedived after the initial launch.

If some of the pre-order money has had to go in to fund this purchase, that could make things even trickier.

Meanwhile the Next is on 5000 for the THIRD batch and I imagine they know their costs pretty well and have everything pretty much nailed on.

I know where I'd stick 300 quid if I had it!

[Gryzor]

Heard a rumour they paid 2 million Euros for the rights. Ouch.

How many C64 Ultimates do they need to sell to cover that? The sales tracker shows its on about 7000 sales in just under a month but the sales rate has nosedived after the initial launch.

If some of the pre-order money has had to go in to fund this purchase, that could make things even trickier.

Meanwhile the Next is on 5000 for the THIRD batch and I imagine they know their costs pretty well and have everything pretty much nailed on.

I know where I'd stick 300 quid if I had it!

If indeed they want to cover that with this campaign, then... ouch.

But seriously, who would give 2 million for the name?

[pelrun]

They're planning to run a business under the name. It'd be mad to do it *just* for a clone C64 which is already designed - and in any case, it sounds like they have a separate licensing agreement for that particular product that will continue even if the overall deal falls through.

[andycadley]

They're planning to run a business under the name. It'd be mad to do it *just* for a clone C64 which is already designed - and in any case, it sounds like they have a separate licensing agreement for that particular product that will continue even if the overall deal falls through.

I believe the deal has gone through at this point (accompanied by various extremely cringe photos and videos). Still 2 million in profit that needs to be paid back to somewhere is an awful lot (especially when much of it may be from investors who want actual returns on their investment too).

Maybe the retro market can sustain that much, but I'd be surprised. I will not be the least bit surprised when various Commodore branded merchant starts flooding out to raise cash.

[Anthony Flack]

A T shirt licensing deal would probably be the most profitable way to exploit the Commodore brand right now.

But if I was going to start a new business, and the choice was a) be called Commodore or b) have a spare 2 million Euros... well, that money could pay for a lot of things. I hope they didn't pay that much.