So, it seems this guy isn't too impressed with how RAM/ROM banking works on the MSX: Why You Should Never Develop for MSX | Daifukkat.su (http://daifukkat.su/blog/archives/2013/10/07/why_you_should_never_develop_for_msx/)
Must admit I had a bit of a chuckle reading it... :D
Quote from: ralferoo on 21:25, 15 October 13
So, it seems this guy isn't too impressed with how RAM/ROM banking works on the MSX
"MSX memory system is flat out fucked"
Best. Quote. Eva.
I often complain CPC ram paging is simplistic but i don't want this one ! :o
I was considering looking into the possibilities of making an adapter so that the MegaFlash would work on my MSX... Project cancelled! :D
Bryce.
I tend to discount anything written by someone using Comic Sans, but I have to wonder: if each machine could use its own conventions then... what was the use of the MSX, if it didn't impose something as basic as that?
Man...that's very confusing!
I was thinking of buying a panasonic MSX2+ for graphical/game development, but having code that could be machine "dependant" on the same system, doesn't sound very encouraging for any programmer.
Shame - as it has some lovely specs for an 8 bit.
Yeah - especially those running at 5.5MHz...
considered CPC scene have trouble to account for the different specs...
you know ?
64K, 128K and PLUS (also in 64K and 128K lol)...
So guess the hell of a storm with MSXs...
1, 2 , 2+ and TurboR.
Very varied RAM, very varied extra soundcards as well... very varied graphical modes, different clockings too and somewhat retro compatible.
The AmstradPLUS is barely as "powerfull as an MSX2 on the paper... still it offers lots of flexibility.
I mean, the amstrads can into some 90° turned 192x256x16 video mode for "only" 24K...
MSX 2 and later can have somewhat almost true colour, or plain 256x192x16 I guess...
Sprites may be better but the 2 doesn't scroll well.
2+ and turboR are quite Rare I think.
Most MSXs in europe may only be MSX1 with few extra features/peripherals... fun but not always CPC killers IMO.
Quoteusing Comic Sans
WTF I love ComicSans
After reading the link I was rendered speechless. The fuck-up boggles my mind.
And as others have already pointed out, the deal-breaker here is that you cannot assume a basic configuration on all MSX computers.
In hindsight this should have given us an ample warning of Microsoft's "solutions".
It's kinda disappointing, but it feels like the MSX was treated like an "open source" project with all those different configurations. Looking at the MSX forums, it stated that you should either be aiming for the MSX +2 or the Turbo R and nothing less, as they will play almost everything.
I've never seen an MSX, but i'm interested to know about the layout of the MSX +2 as it can play cassettes, cartridge, floppy 3.5 disks and laser disks!
Here's a few pictures of mine for you to enjoy :) (Sony HitBit HB-75P)
Sony MSX HB-75P (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/other-retro/sony-msx-hb-75p/msg58432/#msg58432)
@MacDeath: you should be banned for saying that.
@Bryce: yeah, yeah, we know :p
I just wanted to rub your nose in it remind you what it looks like :D
Bryce.
Shurrup. You're not my real dad.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:15, 24 October 13
Here's a few pictures of mine for you to enjoy :) (Sony HitBit HB-75P)
I got one too :) Also in it's original box, but with a less fancy datarecorder. My sister bought it 25 years ago. I also have a couple of Spectravideos.
The MSX is a great system, I remember programming a lot of small games on it in the mid 80's. I still have my first MSX, an SVI728 with an SVI datarecorder.
Quote@MacDeath: you should be banned for saying that.
What the FUCK I bet you are kidding...
I actually received a warning/don't mess this more or you'll get banned/WTF ? for this...
I know the Comic Sans MS is a classic Meme and a common geek joke but hey, I really like it..
COMIC SANS MS is not an option, it's a way of life...Plus it is implemented in the forum... and...
oh shit...
Massacre
Terror
Death
Oblivion
Anal butthurt pain
Ponies
Extreme annihilation by RAM shortage
Tape loading 128K game with colour clashes
Speccy
Fag shortage
Kanker
French with 1/4 polish ancestry
François HollandeHow can't you love that ?
Quote from: Bryce on 20:15, 24 October 13
Here's a few pictures of mine for you to enjoy :) (Sony HitBit HB-75P)
Sony MSX HB-75P (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/other-retro/sony-msx-hb-75p/msg58432/#msg58432)
Hmmm. That's the MSX 1? There's tons of games for the MSX as it did really well in Japan.
It's kinda funny that many people say that SONY entered the market with the PS1, when the MSX is they're earlier venture.
You know what - I think I'm going to look into purchasing an MSX +2......
Quote from: sigh on 01:05, 25 October 13
You know what - I think I'm going to look into purchasing an MSX +2......
You're not the only one. I've had MSX 1 computers since 1985 but never one with a floppy. The MSX is my favorite 8-bit system, but nowadays I use the CPC more simply because it has a floppy drive. I'm seriously considering an MSX2 with built-in floppy, as I actually miss playing with MSX Basic.
@MacDeath: I thought you, of all people, would appreciate the humour in the warning :D
But no, Comic Sans is not an option. I have studied typography extensively (well, for a layman) because of my job, and believe me, it's never a good option. Used to be ok, for children books and stuff, but not any more, after it's been so overused.
Outside kid stuff, it should be banned.
[spoiler]
From Comic Sans: The Worst Font In The World » Sabotage Times (http://sabotagetimes.com/life/why-i-despise-comic-sans/) :
The worst font in the world: Comic Sans, was created in the early nineties for a small cartoon dog - so why do people still insist on using it professionally when it looks like a toddler's scrawl?
I've never met you, but I hate you. I know we'd never get on, not least because the urge to punch you repeatedly would overwhelm me. I also know that I'd happily dance across your freshly-dug grave because you – yes you – use Comic Sans.
The font was designed in the early-Nineties by a guy called Vincent Connare and do you know why? It was for a specific, now-obsolete, product called Microsoft Bob which used a small cartoon dog, predictably called Rover, to guide novice users through tasks like how to create and save files.
Initially Rover was going to speak in Times New Roman, but that didn't look quite right so Connare set about designing something more 'fun' and used as his inspiration the comics, sorry graphic novels, Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns. When Microsoft Bob was discontinued Comic Sans somehow wormed its way into the Windows 95 package and 'thanks' to the home computer and desktop publishing booms the rest, as they say, is history.
But you can't escape the simple truth: If you use Comic Sans, you're using a font designed for an animated dog. #dickhead
Now, when I tell stupid people not to use Comic Sans they invariably confirm their stupidity by saying: "Don't be silly, it's just a font." To which (once I've controlled the urge to kick them) my reply is: "It's not 'just a font' it is a font which was designed for a specific purpose and significantly to replace another font which wasn't appropriate in that context." To put it another way, while it looks shit it was at least designed for the right reasons.
But why does it look shit? Well, comic book fonts are designed to be used in upper-case only and they also tend to be used in short, punchy sentences. (Don't believe me? Go have a look.) Those types of fonts are just not right for a large wedge of text – say a book or newsletter.
What's more Comic Sans was poorly designed. Without wanting to get too technical (I just want to be angry and swear a lot) good, legible fonts have an even weight distribution (the thickness of the stroke) throughout each letter. They also have good 'letter fit' which is the space between each letter and how they fit together in words. Comic Sans has neither and so it's a difficult read and let's not forget it was designed for use on screen not on paper.
One of the Ten Commandments should have been "Thou shalt not use Comic Sans" but given the omnipresence of the font the Ten Commandments were probably written in the bastard.
"Hey, Moses, this is the most important document ever written. Even if I don't really exist (and let's face it the chances are slim) it'll shape the moral code of a large part of humanity for millennia to come. What say we use a font that makes it look like it's been written by a five-year-old?"
"I dunno, God. I reckon Helvetica might be better. Or what about Garamond or Century Schoolbook? Y'know, weighty classics with a bit more gravitas."
"Come now, Moses, I created the world. What could anyone possibly tell me about fonts?"
At the forefront of the pro-Comic Sans faction is the group of users I really despise: primary school teachers. The fuckwits have made it their go-to font because it looks child-like.
Now, to be fair, there is a limited (emphasis on limited) amount of research which suggests the fact the font is hard to read actually helps kids (emphasis on kids) take in information better, especially kids with dyslexia. As annoying as that is, if (emphasis on if) it's true, then I say fan-bloody-tastic something good has come from something shit. Like penicillin and mouldy cheese.
But forget the kids for a minute, what about us adults? Just because you teach children doesn't mean that everything you write has to look like a toddler's scrawl.
Let's put it another way: you don't meet parents dressed as a clown, or wearing a Hello Kitty or Ben 10 T-shirt covered in snot and half your lunch. Why not? Because (a) you're an adult and (b) you want to make a good impression of your school. So why use such a shit font on your signage, or worse still in letters home to parents? Oh, I know, because like God, you know everything. Well listen here, arse-wipe: you don't.
Of course there's a slim possibility I'm just a font snob. Maybe its popularity – its consistently inappropriate use – proves that Comic Sans is better than I give it credit. You know what I say to that suggestion?? I say: No, fuck off, don't be such a dick.
Lot's of people used to smoke. In fact there were even adverts which encouraged the habit by suggesting it made you look cool and was good for your health. Everybody else had to cough and splutter their way through life thinking "there's something very wrong here".
Now we all know that's shite because the Malboro Men have died and if you do want to fly in the face of medical evidence and pollute your body you have to go outside in the cold and the rain like a pariah and let the rest of us breath in peace.
That's what should happen to people who insist on polluting their school reports/newsletters/restaurant signs/gravestones/etc/etc with Comic Sans. They should be forced to the edge of life; outside of civilised society. They should be branded as the pariahs they are (in Comic Sans, just for the sake of irony) until they accept and acknowledge that they don't know their arse from their elbow. That or they should be shot.
And here's the thing, I guess it's not the font I really hate (although let me be very clear: I do hate it) no, it's the people who use it. The bastards who have no fucking idea how crap it makes them or their company/school/shop/relative's headstone look.
A font is a visual tone of voice, each with its own pitch, each appropriate for a different occasion. It's. That. Simple. You don't talk to an adult the same way you talk to a child; you don't use a child-like voice at a funeral or in a company presentation. So don't use the same font when you're writing for an adult as you do when you're writing for a child and don't use a child-like font on a headstone.
Just look at its fucking name – COMIC Sans. Forget the 'sans' bit (let's face it if you don't get why the font is shit 'sans' is probably too technical for you), the message is clear: it was based on a font for comic books. I'll repeat: IT WAS BASED ON A FONT FOR COMIC BOOKS. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Yes, it might have seemed 'fun' and 'quirky' back in 1994 when it first became widely available but then so did acid-wash jeans, Hammer-pants and Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. Thankfully they've been consigned to the dustbin of history (although Jim Carey's still producing his own personal version of the font in cinemas on a regular basis) so let's say we do the same with Comic Sans, eh?
A font should only be used after much consideration to appropriately reflect the context and content of what you've written. Again, it's depressingly simple. If you want to go through life sounding like a child, well, fine but no one is going to pay much attention to what you have to say although there'll be a long queue of people wanting to give you the arse-kicking you so richly deserve.
Especially if you're a teacher.
Maybe an MSX Basic Simulator for the CPC?
Comic Sans - #dickhead. Classic.
Can't recommend enough that article I quoted. Says it all, really.
The author is too exaggerated and not know too much about msx :P
The first thing that every decent msx program does and every programmer learn first, it's checking where are the ram and rom pages in the machine is running, even the bios can help with that task. And old bad programs, can be (and have been) patched, curiosly a lot of shitty spanish and uk msx games :P
And all the cartridge software for MSX (a lot and high quality) only use the 8 KBs of RAM always visible. And those days, all the new msx games are published in cartridges, in a very professional way as the people of Matra (http://www.matranet.net/boutique/msx/card/card.php). An example:
(http://elblogdemanu.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/Caos.jpg)
Indeed i can find more CPC programs that can not been run from B drive or only initialize rom 7 (when a cpc power user can have other disk rom in other rom position :P ) or games with bugs that can no be finished or all those CRTC R2 fixes that cngsoft is making.
Damn right! 8)
EDIT: In that shop they sell Roc'n Rope. They stole the Colecovison version and sell it for 12,50 Euros! haha!
Quote from: SyX on 19:49, 27 October 13
....or games with bugs that can no be finished or all those CRTC R2 fixes that cngsoft is making.
"CRTC R2 fixes", what does this mean?
The "CRTC R2 fixes" are a simple horizontal centering of the game screen, perfect for people using a TV or a monitor without horizontal adjust, and where the cpc screen is shifted to the left... and thanks god, i'm not the only one fixing this :P
Quote from: SyX on 23:05, 28 October 13
The "CRTC R2 fixes" are a simple horizontal centering of the game screen, perfect for people using a TV or a monitor without horizontal adjust, and where the cpc screen is shifted to the left... and thanks god, i'm not the only one fixing this :P
ok. Yes this is good.
Quote from: sigh on 00:46, 21 October 13
Man...that's very confusing!
I was thinking of buying a panasonic MSX2+ for graphical/game development, but having code that could be machine "dependant" on the same system, doesn't sound very encouraging for any programmer.
Shame - as it has some lovely specs for an 8 bit.
Actually managing memory is not nearly as complicated as the OP makes it sound. There are BIOS/ROM & DOS routines that make it pretty easy and as long as you use those routines things are pretty straightforward. You only need to really understand those slots mechanisms if you use multiple RAM extensions but that pretty uncommon since with a single slot you can have up to 4MB.
Watch out about which MSX2+ you get. Some of the later Panasonic model no longer have a cassettes port. As for the laser disk interface, you'll need to find the Controller for it (as far as I know only made by Pioneer) and it's pretty rare.
Nowadays your best bet is to use something like the Megaflashrom with MicroSD (MegaFlashROM SCC+ SD | MSX Resource Center (http://www.msx.org/news/en/megaflashrom-scc-sd)). Very convenient to transfer files back and forth from a PC/MAC using Micro SD cards and works as a regular HDD. It also has the added feature to include a SCC sound chip and can behave as a flashed ROM to play those ROM images easily.
Quote from: Maggoo on 00:55, 10 November 13
You only need to really understand those slots mechanisms if you use multiple RAM extensions but that pretty uncommon since with a single slot you can have up to 4MB.
Okay.
Makes me wonder why he was using them in the first place, as it doesn't say what he was trying to create.
Quote from: Maggoo on 00:55, 10 November 13
Watch out about which MSX2+ you get. Some of the later Panasonic model no longer have a cassettes port. As for the laser disk interface, you'll need to find the Controller for it (as far as I know only made by Pioneer) and it's pretty rare.
I've been on the look out for one of these Panasonic FS-A1WX - MSX Wiki (http://www.msx.org/wiki/Panasonic_FS-A1WX) as this one has the cassette port, but they're really difficult to source.
Quote from: sigh on 11:43, 10 November 13
Okay.
Makes me wonder why he was using them in the first place, as it doesn't say what he was trying to create.
I've been on the look out for one of these Panasonic FS-A1WX - MSX Wiki (http://www.msx.org/wiki/Panasonic_FS-A1WX) as this one has the cassette port, but they're really difficult to source.
Yes that one should have the cassette port, later models (A1WSX, ST, GT) do not, but they have the SVIDEO output which is nice to connect to LCD screens. The 5.5 Mhz clock speed is nice for development and to speed up some games.
You can try to contact Daniel (
[size=78%]http://www.msx.org/users/daniel683104[/size]) to see if he has one available. The MSX he refurbishes are usually in very good condition and he usually upgrades them to 256KB or more internally (which is nice as the default 64KB is a bit short) and can have them converted to 220v if you are in Europe. Prices are usually cheaper than what you'd find on eBay.