CPCWiki forum

General Category => Other retro => Topic started by: mr_lou on 19:38, 10 January 25

Title: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 19:38, 10 January 25
I was playing around today with making the same image for multiple platforms, just for fun.
I made
Also uploaded the original.

Adding imgur link for visitors without a login to the forum: https://imgur.com/a/VOlffWK

Everyone feel free to make more versions. I'm curious what it will look like on other platforms.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: Prodatron on 20:20, 10 January 25
SymbOS CPC V9990/MSX2 512x212x16 (1,5:1); photo from a real system:
-mppic.jpg
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: Gryzor on 12:26, 11 January 25
How many colors in each?
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: Prodatron on 12:39, 11 January 25
If I am not wrong 16 for all 5 :)
(I wonder why she doesn't have blue Eyes in Mr Lous Plus and Amiga version)
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 14:33, 11 January 25
Two more: Amstrad CPC MODE 1 and MS-DOS CGA.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 14:34, 11 January 25
Quote from: Prodatron on 12:39, 11 January 25(I wonder why she doesn't have blue Eyes in Mr Lous Plus and Amiga version)
I wondered about that too! But I just use the tools. :)
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: Gryzor on 14:37, 11 January 25
Quote from: Prodatron on 12:39, 11 January 25If I am not wrong 16 for all 5 :)
(I wonder why she doesn't have blue Eyes in Mr Lous Plus and Amiga version)
If so, how does the Amiga version look so much better than the Plus one? Palette choice?
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 16:00, 11 January 25
Sega Master and Sega Genesis / MegaDrive versions.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: ZorrO on 16:04, 11 January 25
Most graphics conversion programs, when they reduce number of colors, choose those that have more pixels on screen, so sometimes important color that does not have many pixels disappears in new palette, but you can set this color manually and lock it, then program will use it. Because your color selection may be better than automatic, especially in MODE 1.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 16:07, 11 January 25
Quote from: ZorrO on 16:04, 11 January 25Most graphics conversion programs, when they reduce number of colors, choose those that have more pixels on screen, so sometimes important color that does not have many pixels disappears in new palette, but you can set this color manually and lock it, then program will use it.
Yea, I'm not graphics artist. Real artists should be able to do much better.
Just wanted to experiment, see how much effort it takes to create multiple versions of some graphics. Doesn't seem to take a lot of effort.
So to me it seems like a good idea for pixel artists doing stock graphics to create multiple versions of their creations, to increase chances of gamedevs finding it useful on their particular platform.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: Prodatron on 16:24, 11 January 25
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:37, 11 January 25
Quote from: Prodatron on 12:39, 11 January 25If I am not wrong 16 for all 5 :)
(I wonder why she doesn't have blue Eyes in Mr Lous Plus and Amiga version)
If so, how does the Amiga version look so much better than the Plus one? Palette choice?
The Amiga (320x200x16) has the double resolution compared to the CPC Plus (160x200x16).
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: Gryzor on 16:47, 11 January 25
Quote from: Prodatron on 16:24, 11 January 25
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:37, 11 January 25
Quote from: Prodatron on 12:39, 11 January 25If I am not wrong 16 for all 5 :)
(I wonder why she doesn't have blue Eyes in Mr Lous Plus and Amiga version)
If so, how does the Amiga version look so much better than the Plus one? Palette choice?
The Amiga (320x200x16) has the double resolution compared to the CPC Plus (160x200x16).
Ah I read the dimensions of the images...
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: ikari_01 on 17:51, 11 January 25
SNES (256x183), 256 colors RGB555. To account for the 8:7 pixel aspect ratio I had to upscale the picture for PC viewing, and some interpolation was necessary. No original HW picture (yet), sorry :)
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: ikari_01 on 17:53, 11 January 25
Please excuse the double posting; I should add that this is for SNES graphics mode 3.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 10:33, 12 January 25
Made more conversions: https://imgur.com/a/Vn6XGPF
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: St-BeidE(DE/GB) on 11:02, 12 January 25
Wonderful image!  :) well done!

I was expecting a totally different thing, however    ;D
I was wondering, how it is physically possible, to
make a disk image compatible with all computers. :doh:

Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: Skunkfish on 14:53, 12 January 25
Quote from: St-BeidE(DE/GB) on 11:02, 12 January 25I was wondering, how it is physically possible, to
make a disk image compatible with all computers. :doh:



Probably worth a new topic on its own, but I seem to recall magazines with a cover disk that would work on both Amiga and ST... Not sure how they did that, am I right in remembering that ST's use a an MSDOS disk format?

Maybe a special boot sector for the Amiga and the rest of the disk in DOS format, or were these genuinely mixed format disks?
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: Prodatron on 15:06, 12 January 25
Quote from: St-BeidE(DE/GB) on 11:02, 12 January 25I was wondering, how it is physically possible, to
make a disk image compatible with all computers. :doh:
McArti0 did this:

https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/symbos-3-1-released/msg241441/#msg241441

You can make hybrid discs, which contain both a CP/M filesystem and a FAT12 filesystem.
The first can be read on a native level by an Amstrad CPC (and probably other CP/M machines) and the second can be read on a native level by MSX, Enterprise, NC200, later PCWs, PC, Atari ST (?) [and of course any SymbOS machine].
I think there was another specific thread about this topic here as well.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: eto on 15:15, 12 January 25
Quote from: Skunkfish on 14:53, 12 January 25or were these genuinely mixed format disks?
This is very well explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhTfBSIANfI
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 06:33, 13 January 25
That's also an interesting topic yes. :)
But yea, should probably be split into another thread, if more replies comes along.

I'm personally also a fan of the way Xbox games - when put in a normal DVD player - shows an Xbox logo etc. Not quite as geeky of course, but still...

Making such a disk actually qualifies as a form of steganography, which is the art of "hiding data in plain sight" within some other data - which is also an interesting topic. :)
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 07:24, 27 January 25
Did another version: Amstrad CPC MODE 0 interlaced.

I wonder what the cons are with interlaced images. The advantage of course is that we suddenly get a palette of 125 colours instead of 27. And I know that one con is that a lot (most?) emulators doesn't handle it that well, which is why many YouTube videos give a terrible impression.
What other cons are there?
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: McArti0 on 09:03, 27 January 25
Quote from: mr_lou on 07:24, 27 January 25And I know that one con is that a lot (most?) emulators doesn't handle it that well,
And then CPCEC is used which can easily bind the interl into one color.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 09:27, 27 January 25
Quote from: McArti0 on 09:03, 27 January 25
Quote from: mr_lou on 07:24, 27 January 25And I know that one con is that a lot (most?) emulators doesn't handle it that well,
And then CPCEC is used which can easily bind the interl into one color.
Yea, RetroVirtualMachine also does a great job with interlaced colours.

But there are still videos made even today with flickering colours, which can only be because of either poor emulation or bad settings. Maybe that's all it is? Bad settings?
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: andycadley on 09:31, 27 January 25
Quote from: mr_lou on 09:27, 27 January 25But there are still videos made even today with flickering colours, which can only be because of either poor emulation or bad settings. Maybe that's all it is? Bad settings?

On a real CPC and monitor, you get horrible flickering colours and it's migraine inducing to look at for any length of time. I'd argue it's poor emulation to conceal that fact by deliberately blending frames to make it look smoother.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 09:42, 27 January 25
Quote from: andycadley on 09:31, 27 January 25On a real CPC and monitor, you get horrible flickering colours and it's migraine inducing to look at for any length of time. I'd argue it's poor emulation to conceal that fact by deliberately blending frames to make it look smoother.

If you mix black'n'white - or two other strong contrasting colours, then it will result in horrible flickering yes. And yes, it is therefor poor emulation to just show a steady grey colour.
But if you pick two colours that are relatively close to each other - which is all you need to produce one of the additional colours from the interlaced palette - then it definitely shouldn't qualify as "horrible" flickering. You may be able to see it, but it shouldn't be annoying to look at.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: arnoldemu on 09:48, 27 January 25
Quote from: mr_lou on 07:24, 27 January 25Did another version: Amstrad CPC MODE 0 interlaced.

I wonder what the cons are with interlaced images. The advantage of course is that we suddenly get a palette of 125 colours instead of 27. And I know that one con is that a lot (most?) emulators doesn't handle it that well, which is why many YouTube videos give a terrible impression.
What other cons are there?
The effect doesn't work on some modern televisions so if somebody is using a scart lead on a modern tv they'll not see the effect. I've tried it on my tv and only 1 colour out of each 2  was shown.

On an Amstrad monitor some colour combinations flicker more than others.

Does the tool allow various stipple patterns? There are some nice techniques on the C64 which have different stipple patterns that produce some nice colours.

Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: eto on 09:49, 27 January 25
Quote from: mr_lou on 07:24, 27 January 25What other cons are there?
It's often terrible when using scan converters to connect the CPC to VGA/HDMI displays.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: mr_lou on 10:02, 27 January 25
Well, the interlaced effect will obviously only work on a 50 hz display, since it switches colour 50 times per second.
So when using a modern LCD screen or a VGA/HDMI converter that changes the refresh rate to 60 hz, we're bound to have issues.

Same problem if doing a 50 fps video - and then upload to YouTube where everyone will watch it on their 60 hz monitor.
Title: Re: Same image for multiple platforms
Post by: McArti0 on 10:33, 27 January 25
An LCD monitor displays interlacing nicely by itself.

To show a flicker on YouTube you have to decide on 50 or 60Hz and watch on such a monitor.

https://youtu.be/DisL4Gj8Tc0

ps. Its not graber. I prepare this from few selected screenshots
Powered by SMFPacks Menu Editor Mod