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General Category => Other retro => Topic started by: beaker on 17:19, 13 November 12

Title: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 17:19, 13 November 12
Just bought a Sega SG-1000 II off ebay for not much money and I am having getting sound. I've tried a couple of different leads and 3 different TV's (Pioneer plasma, Goodmans CRT and Philips CRT). The only one I did get sound from (which was quite clear) was the Philips but as soon as I stored the channel it went again. Anyone got any ideas what could be happening?
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 22:27, 13 November 12
Where did it come from? Any chance it's outputing a different PAL version? Ireland / UKs PAL use a different sound carrier frequency than the rest of Europe. This would cause you to get a picture but no sound.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 23:13, 13 November 12
Hey Bryce,

I think despite the English on the top of the case it's a Japanese model looking at the back (It was a bit of a flop for Sega and only got a limited release in Europe and no release in America) and low and high signal switch seem to equate to 90.25Mhz and 97.25Mhz. So I guess the chances are it's outputting a NTSCJ signal and as I think your suggesting my televisions are unable to decode it properly. 

I take it my only options would something to convert the signal or modding it to composite or something?
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 23:15, 13 November 12
Do you have a schematic for it? If you can send me that, I'll tell you what the best picture / sound solution is.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 23:41, 13 November 12
Sorry, I couldn't find a schematic but I did find this web page where they've converted it to output RGB. Some of it looks doable but the amplifier part looks absolutely terrifying to me :)
RGB + Synch Amplifier Circuit for Sega SG-1000 II (Mark 2) | nIGHTFALL Blog / (http://www.nightfallcrew.com/02/09/2012/rgb-synch-amplifier-circuit-for-sega-sg-1000-ii-mark-2/)

I think I'll give up before I even begin and just use it as a paper weight  :laugh:
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 23:56, 13 November 12
It's a great looking device. It oozes retro. If you have any games for it, I'd definitely use it. SCART and cinch audio makes it quite interesting.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: MacDeath on 00:15, 14 November 12
Is this a console or a real computer ?
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 00:30, 14 November 12
@MacDeath - It's a console but there is an edge connector on the front to add a keyboard, printers and a cassette player. It can also read the same Sega card games as the original Master System that came after it with the right adapter.

@Bryce - Your right hey. I have a couple of games for it but I was looking at getting Congo Bongo, Sega Ninja and ahem Girl's Garden (it's supposed to be good...) and the mod would mean it could be used on modern TV's AND it seems quite rare looking on ebay... I don't suppose you fancy a new project at some point?  :-[ I can't read a schematic to build the amp and my soldering iron is pretty crap  :D
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: TotO on 09:36, 14 November 12
Quote from: beaker on 00:30, 14 November 12It can also read the same Sega card games as the original Master System that came after it with the right adapter.
Sure, the SG-1000 can read the thin "Sega My card" through the adapter, as those games only require the original TMS9928A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TMS9918) screen mode.

(http://mo5.com/commun/images/consoles/sega/sega-sms-hucard.png) (http://mo5.com/commun/images/consoles/sega/sega-sms-hucard.png)


Later, some Sega My Card will be Mark-III/SMS only compatible (printed on the top) before switching to the full cartridge system to increase the ROM capacity and allow saves (Phantasy Star).

Spoiler: ShowHide
(http://www.cartouche-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/sega_my_card_1.jpg) (http://www.cartouche-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/sega_my_card_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 09:41, 14 November 12
Quote from: beaker on 00:30, 14 November 12
@Bryce - Your right hey. I have a couple of games for it but I was looking at getting Congo Bongo, Sega Ninja and ahem Girl's Garden (it's supposed to be good...) and the mod would mean it could be used on modern TV's AND it seems quite rare looking on ebay... I don't suppose you fancy a new project at some point?  :-[ I can't read a schematic to build the amp and my soldering iron is pretty crap  :D

Building the AMP part is simple, if you are willing to make the connections to the Sega PCB. The AMP is simple enough to make on a protyping board. If not, you could always send me the Sega PCB.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 16:17, 14 November 12
@Tot0, thanks for the information, I didn't know that  :)

@Bryce, thanks for the offer. I assume just the PCB to reduce the weight? I don't suppose I could be really cheeky and ask I could send the whole thing over for you to work on if you have the time as the entire console only weighs 595g, plus I think I may have at least one more issue other than the sound, or is that pushing it?

The reason I ask is firstly it would be great to have it professionally done, and secondly I am not confident that I wouldn't mess it up and it would cost be 3 to 4 times what I paid for it to replace it looking on ebay not including postage from Japan. If it was more common I wouldn't mind so much...

The other issue mentioned earlier is I noticed that the pads don't seem to be working very well and I ended up using one from my master system last night while playing around with it properly for the first time. Would you be able to look at the controllers as well? I opened one up and one of the plastic holders for the screw fell out after breaking off (hopefully prior to me turning the screw to undo it). This suggests to me I would be better letting an expert look at it.

Probably should also mention I've been thinking about it today and was thinking about putting an 8 pin DIN socket on the back of the console as they used in the Megadrive and Sega Master System so we can use those scart leads rather than have one permanently attached but can discuss it more later...

Thanks in advance,

Beaker
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 16:50, 14 November 12
Seeing as you would be paying the postage, you can send as much or as little as you want :D

Let me know the pinout of the 8pin DIN if you want it to be compatible. I can look at sound / controllers etc while it's here. But don't forget to send me at least one game to test it with.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 17:51, 14 November 12
Cool, thanks Bryce  :D

I'll send you my entire collection of all two games and my Megadrive RGB scart.

This site seems to show the pinouts:
Game Console RGB SCART Cable Diagrams (http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#megamstr)

Let me know how much you want for doing the work when you're ready and I'll paypal you the money  :)

Thanks again,

Beaker
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: MacDeath on 19:56, 14 November 12
This machine was womewhat a proto MSX1...


the "Sega1000" specifications were somewhat the technical basis for the MSX standard, still those are not really compatible.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 21:07, 14 November 12
Quote from: beaker on 17:51, 14 November 12
This site seems to show the pinouts:
Game Console RGB SCART Cable Diagrams (http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#megamstr)

Does your SCART cable also have those resistors and capacitors inside the connector? If so, I'll have to make the RGB Amp slightly different. Not an issue though.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: TomEtJerry on 22:45, 14 November 12
Hi

Sg-1000 is a console, but Sega has done later a computer based on the same hardware, the SC-3000 (Yeno SC-3000 and SC-3000h in France). I think the games were compatible with the SG-1000.

Maybe we can consider it as the japanese CPC, as you could connect a 3 inches disk drive in the computer if you were rich(SF-7000 interface).
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 23:17, 14 November 12
@Bryce, it's from Retro Computer Shack. The ebay listing below says it has additional components fitted inside the scart plug to ensure the highest quality picture which I take to mean it does but I've emailed them through ebay to confirm (hopefully they'll get back to me)...

Sega Megadrive 1 High Quality RGB Gold Scart Lead TV AV Cable - Stereo - NEW | (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260926939448)

Edit: Ian (of Retro Computer Shack) just got back to me:

Quote
This lead just contains the resistors to attenuate the RGB signals to Scart level. Doesn't contain any capacitors, as I have never found any need for them.   May not work with a modded SG-1000 as the RGB TTL levels may be different.

@TomEtJerry. Would probably be cheaper going for the SC-3000 if I ever want a keyboard. The cheapest I can find the keyboard for the SG-1000 is €190 from France!!!  ???

SK-1100 Keyboard Clavier Pour Sega Sg-1000 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271003052335)
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: TomEtJerry on 20:30, 15 November 12
Hi,

SC-3000 hardware is not cheap too :-( so...  In addition, the SC-3000 has a big lack, its cartridge connector. I don't kow if it's the same for the SG-1000, but that's quite annoying (connector pins are not flexible enought). That's a pity because it's a nice little computer.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 21:45, 21 November 12
Hi Beaker,
        just thought I'd let you know (to your relief), that the SG-1000 arrived here today. Wow, it really does Oooooze retro, what a great piece of kit. As always I couldn't wait to rip it apart carefully disassemble it :)

Here's what it looks like inside:

[attach=2]

So what's inside: Starting from the left there are two MB81416-12. These are 16K x 4bit dynamic RAM ICs (NMOS parts!). The rather large heatsink is for the 7805 (5V voltage regulator). Under its left "wing" is the TV modulator, under the right side is a 74LS257, this is a data separator / multiplexer, probably to allow the video IC and CPU to access the same RAM. The other small IC on the top right is also a 257 (you need two of them for 8 bits). The big IC below the heatsink is some sort of Sega custom IC. Then there's the Z80 (above the cartridge slot) and lastly a Toshiba TMM2009, this is a static RAM IC as far as I know, but I need to check my datasheets to be sure. It's a single sided PCB with a crazy amount of bridges.

The power switch (bottom right) is a work of art.

As soon as I have time I'll try one of your games out and measure what video signals are available. Then I'll see what the best solution is to get a sharp picture out of it :)

Stay tuned,

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 00:33, 22 November 12
Looks like you'll have to correct the specifications here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SG-1000#Specifications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SG-1000#Specifications)


Very simple design really.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 00:57, 22 November 12
Phew... faith has been restored in the postal service again  :D
It does look positively vintage hey, I am half expecting to see a couple of vintage glass tube amplifiers on the board. I've already started making a list of games I want for it. I take it the bridges you mention are the things that look like staples?
What state are the caps in? Hopefully they used better ones than in the Gamegear  ;)

Sorry I forgot to include the Sega TV hookup, although truth be told I am still trying to work out how to connect it to my TV....
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 11:40, 22 November 12
@Briggsy: I'm not sure the specs are wrong on Wikipedia. Beakers device is an SG-1000 II not the original SG-1000. Maybe it had different specs. They definitely moved from NEC to Sharp on version 2 and the PCB layout is also completely different, so the RAM may have been upgraded too. Maybe it's the 6128 of the SG-1000 world :D

@Beaker: Yes the "staples" are bridges to cross over the tracks beneath. Essentailly doing what the second layer on a two layer PCB does. The capacitors all look fine to me, but I'll test them while I'm at it anyway. The TV hookup is only a cheap UHF switch. You won't ever need it.

It would be nice to have a schematic of the device, but I can't seem to find one. It shouldn't be a problem anyway, I can work out where to take the signals from without it.

Bryce.

Edit: I've just found the original Sega Specs here:  (http://sega.jp/fb/segahard/sg1000_2/data.html) which also claim that it only has 1K RAM and 2K Video RAM, but the 2x 81416 is definitely 16KB (not 16Kb) of RAM, so:

A) They only use part of the RAM available
B) They intended having more and then did a turn around?
C) It's been upgraded or repaired by someone.

I can't find any other pictures of the device online, so I can't see if other devices have other ICs in these positions.

Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 12:07, 22 November 12
Quote from: Bryce on 11:40, 22 November 12
The capacitors all look fine to me, but I'll test them while I'm at it anyway.

Cool, thanks.

Quote from: Bryce on 11:40, 22 November 12
The TV hookup is only a cheap UHF switch. You won't ever need it.

he he, just as well the metal prongs are pitted and turning blue... I actually have an identical Euro one with the aerial connections on it but nice to keep this version for completeness. 

Quote from: Bryce on 11:40, 22 November 12
It would be nice to have a schematic of the device, but I can't seem to find one. It shouldn't be a problem anyway, I can work out where to take the signals from without it.

I couldn't find anything on the web either. The only thing I found was the link on the previous page which appears to be the same PCB revision (assuming there were any others in its short lifespan). It would be nice to chuck everything including the kitchen sink at it in terms of signal output so RGB, s-video, composite if possible but I don't know how practical it is?
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 13:16, 22 November 12
Well I've ordered the parts for the RGB amplifier etc already, and that will give you the best picture plus decent sound through your TV (Dual Mono). Adding S-Video is possible but pointless when you have RGB and the correct cable already available. It would also mean using an AD724 or CXA1145 to produce the S-Video signal from the RGB (it's not available on the PCB) and I'd have to order those parts from China.
I will use a slightly modified version of the RGB amplifier circuit you linked to. I need to make some changes because the circuit is not 100% tuned to the SG-1000 output and because your SCART cable seems to have some internal components that aren't taken into consideration in his circuit.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 15:00, 22 November 12
Excellent, thanks, yup it was RGB I'd prefer  :)
Not a problem with the s-video (I was thinking it may be like the Master System 2), I was just wondering if it would ever be used on a TV without RGB scart... just me going off on one as normal  :)
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 15:31, 22 November 12
The Master System 2 offers Composite but not S-video as far as I know. Composite is only slightly better than a UHF signal. The colours are good, but it's rather unsharp. S-Video is the next best, because it has the colour and intensity signals separated - Good colour, relatively sharp picture. RGB is the next. This separates the 3 base colours and has a separate CSync signal. Component video is the next step up and probably the best picture you can get on a standard TV.
It's easy to convert RGB to Composite but only for convenience where you don't have RGB, otherwise it's pointless because the picture is being degraded. Converting RGB to S-Video is also quite easy, the picture quality of S-Video is very close to RGB, especially at the resolutions used by retro gear. I prefer to use S-Video just because the cable is very thin and I have S-Video inputs on my TVs. Converting to Component or anything higher (DVI / HDMI) is complicated and also rather pointless, because the signal resolution is much better than the video signal the system can actually produce. It's like putting a 1080p screen on an 80's digital watch :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Gryzor on 19:47, 22 November 12
Your TV has s-video? Wow, talking about retro... :D

Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 21:00, 22 November 12
Even the latest Panasonic Plasma TVs still have an S-Video input, that's why I stick with them :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: robcfg on 22:16, 22 November 12
I hear my Yeno SC-3000 crying for some love  ;D


I'll have to try and load some tape dumps, but getting a SF-7000 unit would be top notch!


Anybody knows where to get one?  ;)
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 23:29, 22 November 12
Quote from: Bryce on 15:31, 22 November 12
The Master System 2 offers Composite but not S-video as far as I know.

From what I remember getting a s-video signal from the SMS2 wasn't too hard. I had a go at that one myself following a youtube video as the thing only cost me 1c off ebay plus some postage so it wasn't like I was going to lose too much. Here's a picture of my handy work as Gryzor moaned at me last time "Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep on bragging about how many of them you have and how wonderfully modded they are." so it only feels right to keep on banging on about it  :laugh:

[attach=2]

Quote from: robcfg on 22:16, 22 November 12
I'll have to try and load some tape dumps, but getting a SF-7000 unit would be top notch!
knows where to get one?  ;)

OK, what the heck is a SF-7000?!?!  :o
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: ivarf on 23:35, 22 November 12
Quote from: Bryce on 21:45, 21 November 12
The power switch (bottom right) is a work of art.
Why do you say that?
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: robcfg on 23:53, 22 November 12
Quote from: beaker on 23:29, 22 November 12
OK, what the heck is a SF-7000?!?!  :o


The SF-7000, Dear Sir, is this beauty: SC-3000 Survivors :: The ultimate SEGA SC-3000 reference site - The SEGA SF-7000 (http://www.sc-3000.com/index.php/The-SEGA-SF-7000.html)


That gives the SC-3000 a huge boost!  ;D
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 00:17, 23 November 12
That does look right tasty! I'd hate to think how much it would go for. I suppose you could always put a wanted post on Amibay?
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 13:39, 23 November 12
@Ivarf: I say that because it's a thing of beauty. Completely open custom made rocker switch. As you can see in the photo below. The bent metal on the left acts as a spring, the two contacts are on the right (and are filthy, I must clean those too while I'm at it).

@Beaker: I meant the Master System didn't have S-Video as standard. I'm sure there were mods to convert it. Nice job you've done there. Just for Gryzors sake, how many of these do you actually own and how are they modded? A short list would be nice :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 15:16, 23 November 12
urm... just that one (and I think I lucked out not frying any of the chips to be honest). That one just has the 50/60hz switch, s-video and composite. Like the SG-1000 it only outputs mono so have bridged the left and right channels with the same signal. I actually hooked it up again last night after taking the photo and spent the evening playing Alex Kidd and then Psycho Fox (both of which I sucked at).  Otherwise not sure where I gave Gryzor the idea I've made more unless I told an outright lie at some point...
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Gryzor on 20:54, 27 November 12
Hahaha I really don't remember.

But, yeah, go on, brag about them you snob.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 18:02, 15 December 12
Unfortunately I've encountered some issues with the SG-1000 mod: The point on the PCB, where the CSync signal should be, definitely doesn't have a sync signal. The second problem, which is probably a bigger issue, is that the SG-1000 isn't producing any sound. I've connected the device to an NTSC TV, that can definitely handle Japanese signals and I've even connected the scope to the point where at least mono sounds should be. There's nothing there. Unfortunately both issues  would suggest that the Sega Custom chip isn't fully functioning. That would be unfortunate, because there's no chance of replacing this part.

I'll do more tests tomorrow and report back if I get any results.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 19:49, 15 December 12
Ah that's a shame  :( I only managed to get sound on it like twice otherwise most of the time is was a deathly silence. I don't suppose it shares any parts with the Sega Master System that came after it we can use as a donor if needs be? Otherwise I guess it's a paper weight...
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 20:14, 15 December 12
Was it real sound you got, or just noise? Sometimes it produces noise, but I haven't got anything close to recognisable sound yet. I very much doubt that they used the same chip in the Master.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 20:21, 15 December 12
No, it was proper sound the same as in the video link below for the pro wrestling - it almost made me yearn for the silence again mind  :laugh: I think the soccer one almost did a passable whistle as well.


Sega SG-1000 Campion Pro Wrestling Gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-51E2xsykds#)

Edit: Hopefully with right link this time :)
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 20:40, 15 December 12
Ooo, in that case I need to keep looking, maybe something else has failed. I'll test all other parts tomorrow.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 21:48, 15 December 12
Cool, thanks Bryce. Fingers crossed it's something simple like a dodgy capacitor like what happens with the Sega Gamegear but I am not normally that lucky. I don't know if this helps but this is how I described the problem to the seller last month:

"I've managed to get an image but I am having problems getting sound. I've tried 3 TV's (Pioneer plasma, Goodmans CRT and Philips CRT) and managed to get sound on the Philips CRT momentarily until I go to store the channel."

I think I also managed to get sound on the Philips one by manual tuning once but then I changed channel and when I changed back it had gone.

Not sure if that indicates a really weak signal?

Thanks,

Beaker
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 15:52, 16 December 12
Yeaaa! Good old persistence, if it doesn't kill you, it may just get you what you wanted :D

After testing all components and finding them ok, I took a break (played some Chuckie Egg to cool the nerves) and went back to try again. After looking at some solder joints under the microscope I decided there might just be a few of them that aren't that good any more, so I resoldered almost the entire board (all ICs and capacitors). And look there, all of a sudden I have both sound and a CSync signal :) So I finished the amplifier and soldered it all up. It's now working fine with SCART and Dual-mono sound. I still have to do the case modding and then fix the controllers, but the difficult bit has been solved :)

Bryce.

Here's some pictures to keep you entertained...


Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 21:02, 16 December 12
Awesome, thanks for persevering Bryce. You're a legend!  :D

It looks great so far!

I am sort of picturing the moment it all started working playing out a little like this...  :laugh:

"It's Alive!!!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c#)
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 09:49, 17 December 12
Yes, it was a very similar scene... I really need to cut down on the LSD :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 15:19, 19 December 12
I did some tweaking on the RGB amplifier this morning (yes I'm already on my Christmas break!!) and I've improved the picture and colours slightly. Here's a few screenshots of what it looks like now.

Bryce.

P.s. I'm almost sorry I fixed the sound, boy does it have annoyingly crap effects.


Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Gryzor on 15:28, 19 December 12
The video and the comment about having fixed the sound are the highlights of this thread. But the photos look fantastic, I bet no SG user has seen such great image before!

Heart-warming story, I'm sure everyone will agree :)

T

PS Xmas break already? Wow. Some DC gaming, perhaps? *wink* *wink*
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 17:19, 19 December 12
Just finished modding the SG-1000 case. The sockets had to go on the top half due to the PCBs position and all the other connectors at the back, and even then there's not loads of space available because of the ridge in the case etc for a connector as big as the 8pin DIN. The plastic is thick, brittle and old and the DIN socket crosses the split of the case, so I didn't try to drill this 16mm hole with a big drill bit, I hand carved it, which explains why it's definitely nowhere near a perfect circle :D However, the thick plastic allowed me to sink the stereo output socket and mount the DIN socket on the inside, so the end result is quite tidy.

Bryce.

Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Gryzor on 14:49, 20 December 12
Still looking very neat...
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 15:19, 20 December 12
I just fixed the two controllers and now I've started on a MultiCart for it. Due to lack of a 1MB EPROM or in other words, seeing as I have a 2MB EPROM, I've deviced to go for a 64 Way MultiCart :) Whether beaker likes it or not :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 15:43, 20 December 12
Great job so far Bryce, it's great to see the old girl working  :)

The sound is pretty harsh and from what I've read the controllers are stiff and unresponsive which is why most people plug in the Master System pads  :laugh:
What was wrong with the pads in the end?

I like the sound of the 64-way cart :)
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 16:10, 20 December 12
The controllers contacts were just full of dirt / residue from years of being pressed. One of the controllers (the one you broke the screw on) is quite ok to use. The other one doesn't always register the press.

Just checking the 2MB EPROM at the moment, it's a 16bit part that can work in 8bit mode too, so some extra signal fiddling needs to be done to get it to work properly with the SG.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 22:47, 20 December 12
I did a quick ROM search for the SG and I can find 63 games. Unforunately two of these can't go on the MultiCart, because the limit is 32K. Monaco GP is 40K and Music Station is something stupid like 115K ! Here's what I have so far. There are still three free slots, so if anything important is missing then let me know and I'll see if I can find it.

Bank Panic
Black Onyx
Bomb Jack
Borderline
C_So! (J)
Castle
Chack'n Pop
Champion Baseball
Champion Billards
Champion Boxing (J)
Champion Kendou (J)
Champion Pro Wrestling
Champion Soccer
Championship Golf
Championship Lode Runner (J)
Choplifter
Congo Bongo
Dragon Wang (V. A)
Dragon Wang (V. B)
Drol
Elevator Action
Exerion
Flicky
Girl's Garden
Golgo 13
GP World
Gulkave
H.E.R.O.
Hang-On 2
Hustle Chummy
Hyper Sports
James Bond 007
Loderunner
Monaco GP
Music Station (V.1.6)
Ninja Princess
N-Sub
Orguss
Othello (J)
Pacar
Pachinko 2
Penguin Land
Pitfall 2 - the Lost Caverns
Pop Flamer
Rock n' Bolt
Safari Hunt
Safari Race
Sega Galaga
Serizawa Hachidan no Tsumeshogi (J)
Shinnyushain Tooru Kun (J)
Sinbad Mystery
Soukoban
Space Invaders
Star Force
Star Jacker
Super Tank
Terebi Oekaki
Video Flipper
Wonder Boy
Yamato
Zaxxon
Zippy Race
Zoom 909

Ooo, I feel a bit like MacDeath after such a long post :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 23:31, 20 December 12
"Dragon Wang" sounds like an interesting game...  :D
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: db6128 on 23:40, 20 December 12
Did you check GoodSMS in case it has others? I believe the SG-n series ROMs are folded into that set rather than distributed separately.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 01:36, 21 December 12
Quote from: Briggsy on 23:31, 20 December 12
"Dragon Wang" sounds like an interesting game...  :D

lol yeah, reminded me of Family Guy...
Quagmire - Its just my wang (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4snJngMLU0#ws)

Looks like a good list Bryce, all the main games I want to play are on there with the exception of Astro Dodge which I don't think is PD yet.
Revival Studios - Classic games development from old 8-bit computers to neogeo (http://www.revival-studios.com/?page=147)

The music score actually sounds halfway decent...

BRAND NEW SEGA SG-1000 GAME RELEASE - Astrododge (2012) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3wuJR7vm6U#)

I wonder if I can persuade TMR to try and review it in Retro Gamer before I splash out €49 on it, and for all the dozens of SG-1000 , Sega SG-1000-II , Sega SC-3000 and Sega Mark III console owners out there...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 10:29, 21 December 12
Chances are, Astro Dodge is more than 32K, so it probably wouldn't fit anyway. I'll do some more searching for other games before I burn the EPROM anyway.

Dragon Wang has two versions A and B as you can see from the list. I included both, because when I compared the ROM files they're completely different, so it doesn't seem to be a minor difference.

Also Championship Pro Wrestling (the one you sent me and is about to become a multiCart) seems to do some sort of CRTC R3 trick during the game, so on a flat screen the scanlines at the height of the wrestlers get torn to one side. I assume this wouldn't happen on a CRT, but haven't tried it yet. I'll check the signal later on a scope to see exactly what they are doing, but whatever it is, LCD SCART doesn't like it.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 12:08, 21 December 12
Hopefully there's a workaround :)
If not, I think I saw a Sony Trinitron last month in a cash converters type store in Tralee. I may go down this weekend and see if it's still there as I've a couple of other consoles that could benefit from a traditional CRT. The Goodmans I currently use only does composite and the other problem being it's a Goodmans...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 18:20, 21 December 12
It being the end of the world and all that, I had a great plan of how I was going to spend my last hours. Unfortunately neither Emma Watson nor Georgia Salpa wanted to go along with my idea (and they would have both had to say yes for my idea). So instead I had to go for Plan B: Making Beakers MultiCart. I removed the ROM from Championship Pro Wrestling and replaced the IC with some header pins. The extra PCB is held in place by the pins. There's quite a bit of extra space in the cartridge, but the 2MByte EPROM that I wanted to use is a 42pin whopper and is also quite high, so the extra PCB needed to be flipped. Due to the fact that I'll only be making one of these, it's all done on a simple matrix PCB, so there's lots of messy wiring on the back. Tonight I'll sort through and reformat the ROM Files I have, so that I can give the MultiCart a test tomorrow (assuming there is a tomorrow).

Enjoy the pictures,
Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 20:50, 21 December 12
lol sorry about plan A, I was in Dublin with Georgia and her friend last night for some pre-apocalypse fun and may have worn the poor girls out  ;) What was Emma's excuse?

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 20:57, 21 December 12
Please tell me that you didn't really meet her in a pub in Dublin!

Emma didn't say why she couldn't make it, she just reminded me (through her lawyer) of the 500m distance that I have to keep away from her :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 21:53, 21 December 12
lol no I didn't.... It was the  Indie Dhaba restaurant. Then the pub and some clubs before heading back where (thanks to living in Limerick for 6 years) the horse head masks came in most useful  :o

I am of course joking.. great fantasy though...  :P
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 17:02, 23 December 12
I think I've just killed my brain...

I've just spent the entire morning testing the MultiCart. I've now tried all 61 games. My hearing stopped working somewhere around James Bond, but at least that saved me from the noise that Pachinko II could have inflicted on me.

Here's what the MultiCart looks like (boring):

[attach=2] [attach=3]

It has 6 DIP Switches on the back, so to make it usable, I've done a DIP Switch chart for you:

[attach=4]

Quite a few games seem to have problems with the LCD TV, so a CRT might be a good investment. Some games have "torn" parts of the screen, but some (Zaxxon for example) goes completely black every few minutes, making the game quite a challenge.

Bryce.

Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 21:10, 23 December 12
lol that is a scary number of combinations. Looks like a nice neat job as always. My cat already goes ballistic when I am playing some of the old retro titles on the GBA; she seems to have a thing against high pitched pinging sounds so I can't wait to see what she makes of this console  :laugh:

Have you been able to try the console on a CRT to confirm the problem is definitely with the more modern LCD technology and nothing to do with the scart lead I supplied? I know on the first page of this thread the supplier mentioned it "may not work with a modded SG-1000 as the RGB TTL levels may be different." and just to confirm it's not that or any chips?
Sorry if I am talking bollocks as I don't even know what the effects of TTL (transistor to transistor logic?) would be.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Bryce on 14:25, 24 December 12
The amplifier is there to raise the signal levels to what they should be for SCART. Unfortunately the only CRT I have doesn't do NTSC, so I can't test it on a CRT. Eitherway, from the 61 games, I think there were only 4 or 5 that displayed a problem and all other games play perfectly, so all the signal levels and chips are fine.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 14:54, 24 December 12
 :D That's cool. I'll head down later in the week to Tralee now the Christmas rush has subsided and will see if they still have the Sony Trinitron in the shop :)

Thanks again Bryce
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Stevem on 22:53, 16 March 13
Hi There

Just wondering if someone out there can help me

I am from the UK and have just purchased a SG1000 console, when it arrived I hooked it up to my TV and the picture comes up fine (a bit grainy but fine).

However I do not hear any sound - all I get it fuzzy sound (as if the channel wasn't tuned in) Can anyone out there help me!!! I have tried on multiple TV's, tried manual fine tunings but I just cannot get any sound out of this console.  Could the sound chip be damaged?

Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: beaker on 17:23, 18 March 13
Hi Steve,

Yeah, I had exactly the same thing with mine in this thread and it's the signal the RF modulator is kicking out not being compatible with a UK PAL TV (in my case) so it can't lock on properly when you're tuning it. Gryzor even had the same with the Megadrive I sent him to Greece (picture and no sound). In addition my SG-1000 had some dry solder which was also caused a few issues and the whole motherboard had to be resoldered. If you don't mind spending more on the console Bryce did a very nice RGB conversion on mine if you wanted to drop him a PM and he is willing? You'll probably need to register on the site first to send the PM.

Good luck,

Beaker
Title: Re: Sega SG-1000
Post by: Gryzor on 19:34, 22 March 13
Try switching the PAL mode on your TV, if it supports it. Mine did, and that's how I solved my problem (and was elated...)
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