Hi to all,
I m new of this board, i m a 37 years old and i m a cpc lover :) the 464 was my first persnoal computer and i love it :)
I m not a developer and i not know the assembler language, but i have a passion for graphic adventure and i m developping a little graphic adventure in basic for the cpc...
But i have a problem with sound, i want realize a main theme but i m not a music maker, with spectrum i remember a process for digitalize the real sound from real sound track...
I m seraching but i haven't found anything for make the music for the cpc, a midi adapter/converter tool or a process for digitalizing the voice and the audio...
Can anyone help me ?!
Sorry for my very poor english guys and thanks for all!
This site is realy a great resource for the cpc fans :)
Bye
Belzy
Hi Belzy,
first: Welcome to our community!
Glad to see new members who share the same interests!
About your question:
Digitized music is very complicated on a CPC. It takes so much CPU time that there are almost no other resources free (A game or other things)
Sure, digitized music is cool, but not suitable when you want to put it in a game.
I remember coding "Elvira - Mistress of the Dark" for CPC, which was a project half written in machine code and half in BASIC, using RSX commands.
This project is actually in queue.
But I also had digitized title music in it and 1-bit digitized samples which were played during gameplay but also these short samples stopped the CPU until they finished playback.
You can check it here:
Elvira preview in WebCPC (http://cpc-live.com/emulator.php?disc=useruploads/471315elvira_prev.dsk&boot=true&system=PARADOS&crtc=1&monitor=colour&joystick=true&filter=false)
For a good gameplay you should prefer the classic AY possibilities to play musics...
Of course I can also sample longer musics.
This is a 524k sample splitted into 16k segments, and played with a RSX routine in BASIC:
(No, that's no fake! I also have the DSK here... But only PARADOS rom can read it...)
Thanks for your reply
Yes i have seen your link :)
My problem with the AY classic approach is my absolute no knowledge of music :)
Exist a tool for convert the midi or mod sample in compatible sound of amstrad ?!
When i have a track in AY format how i can import in my program on amstrad CPC !?
Sorry but music on amstrad cpc has always been my Achilles heel, since 80's :)
Thanks bye
Belzy
Well, I dont know if there somewhere exist a midi to AY chiptune converter.
The idea sure would be very interesting!
But there exist a few tracker for the CPC which can be used almost like the trackers for Amiga.
Soundtrakker for example:
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=5076
Or also the Arkos Tracker:
http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkos/tools.html
(It's for PC usage)
And last, but not least the Starkos Tracker (for CPC) You find it on the same webpage...
How to create tunes, I cannot help you here, but I am sure we have a lot of musicians here, who can help you a bit.
You can store those music files in binary format and also add a interrupt player.
(Just do a CALL in BASIC and the music plays, another CALL to stop it)
Then your music can play in background while you code and play your game... ;)
Welcome back, mate! Really glad to have you here... :)
If you don't know about music I'd suggest (like Markus did) to pair up with a musician and share the project... it'll be much easier and the result will be much better....
PS About Markus' vid: I'm not sure if we're listening to the music or looking at the chicks...
Quote from: belzebu on 22:48, 14 March 11
But i have a problem with sound, i want realize a main theme but i m not a music maker, with spectrum i remember a process for digitalize the real sound from real sound track...
I m seraching but i haven't found anything for make the music for the cpc, a midi adapter/converter tool or a process for digitalizing the voice and the audio...
Can anyone help me ?!
Welcome to cpcwiki.
I hope you enjoy it here. Please feel free to ask questions about anything including BASIC and programming.
Micro Music Creator can record real sounds. it runs on the amstrad.
The quality is a bit poor (1-bit). Sounds made this way can also take a lot of ram.
An alternative is to use a sample on the PC, convert it down to 6Khz (any more and you will not have ram free), but then to play this you will need to use some z80 code. I already made some code to do this, but I would need to help you by making a binary version so you can use it easily from basic.
You can also use soundtrakker or similar tools to make chiptune, which will take less ram and less cpu time to play.
But, our cousins from the Spectrum have made a tool which *may* help:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/utilities.html (http://www.worldofspectrum.org/utilities.html)
Look for "midi2ay".
These tools are directed towards Spectrum, so the output may be in a form that a Spectrum or Spectrum emulator can use.
But, if they help in some way, then they can be modified to work for CPC too.
A lot of time our cousins on the Spectrum have made similar tools that we can use.
EDIT:
It is possible to use midi2ay with a modified player, which I have written.
But, the Spectrums AY sound chip runs at a different frequency so the music doesn't sound correct.
Devilmarkus has contacted the author and if we can get the sources, we can modify it to output an Amstrad version including correct sounds for Amstrad.
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Ultra_Son
Ultrason is a french software running on CPC.
It enables to make samples from the Tape Drive.
don't know is this is good or easily exploitable ...
Anyway you can perhaps use the external Tapedrive plug and connect a modern MP3 or whatever Digital sound system...
I tried to "convert" manually the DaftPiunk song Derrezzed on CPC format thx to ArkosTracker...
I used a GuitarPro version of Derrezzed and entered the tunes one by one.
But the main problem I got was concerning the instruments...
On ArkosTracvker, you don't simply enter the length of each tunes, you have to create a proper "instrument" that do the sound and the length of the tune (Black, White, quarter and so on...)
not really user friendly.
Anyway.
There must be some existing MIDI oriented softwares.
Another easier way may be to use an Atari ST perhaps.
You get the song to run properly with the atariST YM... then convert this into the CPC friendlier AY "format".
Apologies for the OT - this reminded me of a type-in that, supposedly, had a small person dancing to the sound of an audio tape in the tape deck. Never worked... :(
Quote from: Gryzor on 18:40, 15 March 11
Apologies for the OT - this reminded me of a type-in that, supposedly, had a small person dancing to the sound of an audio tape in the tape deck. Never worked... :(
You definitively tried to type in a C64 program into your CPC :P
Reminds me on someone who asked me in the 80s, if its possible to load C64 tapes on a CPC.
I told him "Thats no problem, just slow down the tapedrive to about 10% of speed and also swap the CPU (z80) against a C64 cpu ":D
I was young, not stupid...
Wow! thanks to alla for prescious suggestion and link!
Realy impressive...
Quote
Devilmarkus ha contattato l'autore e se possiamo ottenere i sorgenti, possiamo modificare per produrre una versione Amstrad i suoni corretti per Amstrad.
Wow! Realy fantastic i hope for this :)
I have tryed the midi2ay and i have converted a midi to ASM, open in assembler editor of Amstrad (WinApe) and...
I apologize for my ignorance in the world of assembler, but I always just used the basic and have never been a developer :)
thanks!!!!
Quote from: belzebu on 19:47, 15 March 11
Wow! thanks to alla for prescious suggestion and link!
Realy impressive...
Wow! Realy fantastic i hope for this :)
I have tryed the midi2ay and i have converted a midi to ASM, open in assembler editor of Amstrad (WinApe) and...
I apologize for my ignorance in the world of assembler, but I always just used the basic and have never been a developer :)
thanks!!!!
We're working towards a midi2ay that will work with no extra work needed by the user.
But for the moment, we're not there.
So at the moment you have to output asm from midi2ay, then do some copying and pasting.
When you're done you can assemble (using wincpc assembler at this time). Then go to basic and type: CALL &8000
to hear the result.
It will not be in tune because it's using Spectrum values, and it's sound chip runs at a different frequency. This means we need different data for CPC for it to be correct.
Asm code for wincpc:
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/midi2ay.asm
Would you happen to have a demo dsk we could listen to? :)
AA had a couple of Type-ins which dealt with capturing and digitalising sound (one being Sound Sampler (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:AmstradActionType-Ins_015_SoundDigitizer.png) I think from AA15), though the one I thought was pretty good is RSX Speech from AA85:
- http://cpcoxygen.fxwebdevelopment.com/amstrad_action/AA085/jpg/scans/aa85-40.jpg (http://cpcoxygen.fxwebdevelopment.com/amstrad_action/AA085/jpg/scans/aa85-40.jpg)
- http://cpcoxygen.fxwebdevelopment.com/amstrad_action/AA085/jpg/scans/aa85-41.jpg (http://cpcoxygen.fxwebdevelopment.com/amstrad_action/AA085/jpg/scans/aa85-41.jpg)
in one of the following AAs there was a patch for it which allowed people with 128k to put longer sound recordings in the extra 64k which made it really handy! ;D You can find it here (http://cpcoxygen.fxwebdevelopment.com/amstrad_action/AA087/jpg/scans/aa87-25.jpg)!
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:14, 16 March 11
Would you happen to have a demo dsk we could listen to? :)
Hey, DSK's (3") are expensive!
I think around 40€ for 10 3" DSK... Maybe, not sure, probably...
But: Take WinCPC, compile this piece of code and do a CALL &8000!
Fine! Thanks for the code :)
It work corectly, i have make my first sound theme for the game :)
When i compile and run it with call memory address, after, i can save this with save a memory area !? And re-call it when i need.. :P
Bye
Belzy!
Sure you can.
When you compile it with WinCPC, it prints out the start address (&8000) and length of the assembled binary.
So you can easily save it as: SAVE"MUSIC.BIN",B,&8000,<length>
To load it later into your game use this:
MEMORY &7FFF:LOAD"MUSIC.BIN",&8000
And to play the music use CALL &8000 then ;)
Much fun!
Quote from: belzebu on 00:39, 17 March 11
Fine! Thanks for the code :)
It work corectly, i have make my first sound theme for the game :)
When i compile and run it with call memory address, after, i can save this with save a memory area !? And re-call it when i need.. :P
Bye
Belzy!
Sorry that you must go through this process to make the music.
We hoped to contact author of midi2ay and modify the code to make cpc data quickly and easily.. but no answer yet.
From a Hardware point of view, would a hardware solution be of any use? ie: A decent A/D Convertor mapped to an address that you could read from? That way you could connect any source (MP3 Player etc) to the device and a software loop could sample the port at the bit-rate you wanted?
Bryce.
Perhaps we can also research the MIDI format?
http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/midifiles.html
I think it's possible...
I've made a small MIDI decoder. Maybe I'll make a MIDI to YM converter with this ?
Hmmmm better a MIDI to suitable CPC format converter...
(Like .128 source for Soundtracker?)
I dunno...
My idea is: To create 16 instruments (with different envelopes) and to create a suitable format, which contains songata and eventually the instruments...
What do you think?
:) Work all correctly, i save the memory area and i load it when i need :)
Another question for the "gurus" :) Is possible grab the music from the demo ? and use it !?
Thanks for all!
Belzey
Quote from: Bryce on 11:04, 17 March 11
From a Hardware point of view, would a hardware solution be of any use? ie: A decent A/D Convertor mapped to an address that you could read from? That way you could connect any source (MP3 Player etc) to the device and a software loop could sample the port at the bit-rate you wanted?
Bryce.
Could the analogue ports on the plus models be used as an audio digitiser?
Yeah, but not a very good one, as far as I can remember, it converts the analogue value to 6bit data and the linearity is questionable. Better to build an external ADC circuit that works on all CPCs.
Bryce.
Quote from: steve on 16:16, 17 March 11
Could the analogue ports on the plus models be used as an audio digitiser?
I don't think they are refreshed by the hardware fast enough.
" They are updated approximately 200 times per second".
That's because they don't use a "real" ADC, the input value is fed into a comparator (LA6393) and compared with 6 different reference values, one after another. This also means that the time between samples is dependent on the actual value measured which means that the sample rate isn't linear. This is fine for Analogue Joysticks, but would really mess up music.
Bryce.
Quote from: belzebu on 15:09, 17 March 11
:) Work all correctly, i save the memory area and i load it when i need :)
Another question for the "gurus" :) Is possible grab the music from the demo ? and use it !?
Thanks for all!
Belzey
Yes you can grab the music.
You can:
1. record the sound into YM format (you can use an emulator to do this). This can then be played on the CPC.
2. Somebody can look at the code of your program, find the music player and extract it.
So yes it is possible to take music from a demo or game easily and use it again.
This information is about cpc music.
Are you talking about a demo or game on another computer?
Again it is possible to extract it, but then you must convert it to the Amstrad which can be hard to do.
Quote from: Bryce on 11:04, 17 March 11
From a Hardware point of view, would a hardware solution be of any use? ie: A decent A/D Convertor mapped to an address that you could read from? That way you could connect any source (MP3 Player etc) to the device and a software loop could sample the port at the bit-rate you wanted?
Bryce.
It would be nice for the CPC, but I would normally sample the sound on the PC and convert it.
But, if it was cheap it would be a nice addition to the wiki.
I am now ready for MacDeath to jump in and ask for a Flash based cart, with read/write ram, and also an a/d mapped into the address space too :laugh:
Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:24, 18 March 11
I am now ready for MacDeath to jump in and ask for a Flash based cart, with read/write ram, and also an a/d mapped into the address space too :laugh:
Optimized for FutureOS? (With FutureOS tools to access the flash card?)
You forgot the USB 3.0 port and Bluetooth transmitter so that it can also be synchronised with your PC :D
Bryce.
What we Really need is a cartridge that can make youtube videos from a running game/program and save them to disk (178k) :laugh: , for later transfer to the PC for uploading.
Quote from: steve on 10:43, 18 March 11
What we Really need is a cartridge that can make youtube videos from a running game/program and save them to disk (178k) :laugh: , for later transfer to the PC for uploading.
Please insert Disk 1 side A.
copying....
Please insert Disk 1 side B.
copying....
Please insert Disk 2 side A.
copying....
Please insert Disk 2 side B.
copying....
Please insert Disk 3 side A.
copying....
Please insert Disk 3 side B.
copying....
Please insert Disk 4 side A.
copying....
Please insert Disk 4 side B.
copying....
Please insert Disk 5 side A.
copying....
Please insert Disk 5 side B.
copying....
Please insert Disk 6 side A.
copying....
Please insert Disk 6 side B.
copying....
Ok I stop now...
Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:22, 18 March 11
1. record the sound into YM format (you can use an emulator to do this). This can then be played on the CPC.
2. Somebody can look at the code of your program, find the music player and extract it.
I have tried option 1 and the results were always at best, not quite right and at worst, very poor.
Option 2 is better for a 'perfect rip', but then again the player code might be crappy and not well optimised.
I wish there was a better way of doing this!
Yes, sorry, i m talking about Amstrad CPC :)
I haven't understand how to re-use the grabbed sound in YM format in to another program...
Sorry i m not a beginner, i m a snow puppet in the storm :)
Bye
Belzy
There's a new version of "MID2ASM"... by Karl McNeil and Matt Westcott. Maybe they are not missing like MIDI2AY author...
ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/tools/pc/Mid2ASM.zip (ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/tools/pc/Mid2ASM.zip)
Works better than MIDI2AY ? I will try it...
Thanks a lot for the explanation about assemble ASM using wincpc/winape assembler and the ASM music player (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/midi2ay.asm)...
Quote from: belzebu on 13:27, 18 March 11
Yes, sorry, i m talking about Amstrad CPC :)
I haven't understand how to re-use the grabbed sound in YM format in to another program...
Sorry i m not a beginner, i m a snow puppet in the storm :)
Bye
Belzy
first or use an emulator to make ym file:
http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/software/starkos/howto.sks2ym
stk2ym
then:
http://genesis8.free.fr/frontend/dmusic.php
kitay03.zip
now you have ayc file, then use this to play:
PLAY-AY .SCE
for arkos tracker:
AKSToYM then do the rest with kitay.
kitay needs special YM files (not compressed).
Perhaps a tutorial is needed to help?
Quote from: arnoldemu on 13:30, 12 May 11
first or use an emulator to make ym file:
http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/software/starkos/howto.sks2ym (http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/software/starkos/howto.sks2ym)
stk2ym
then:
http://genesis8.free.fr/frontend/dmusic.php (http://genesis8.free.fr/frontend/dmusic.php)
kitay03.zip
now you have ayc file, then use this to play:
PLAY-AY .SCE
for arkos tracker:
AKSToYM then do the rest with kitay.
kitay needs special YM files (not compressed).
Perhaps a tutorial is needed to help?
Some info on push n pop:
http://www.pushnpop.net/index.php?action=posts&category=3&id=32&page=1#lastpost
Quote from: demoniak on 13:35, 17 March 11
I've made a small MIDI decoder. Maybe I'll make a MIDI to YM converter with this ?
That will be great!!!! And YM to AY ?
I am a musician (MIDI user) I want to compose throught MIDI (score) and later go to "chipmusic" CPC (AY)...
There was an util to play Music System (RainBird) *.mus files at MIDI interface out... otherwise could be coded?: Simple MIDI 3 tracks file to AY assembler?
MIDI2AY is for zx spectrum frequencies :(
Arkos Tracker don't understand musical MIDI rests... and you only could record one channel MIDI to Arkos not the three AY channels together
Excellent CPC music summary page (http://www.amstradtoday.com/elements/confort/tutozic.htm) (in French if you don't understand :o try google translator )
Please moderators/webmasters/CPCgods (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/smiley.gif) you could change this (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=2060.30) to "Applications" or "Programing". I found it lucky search in google for MIDI & CPC...
Music is a very important part of our CPCs...
Couldn't agree more.
On the other side..... AY player .....
Quote from: arnoldemu on 13:30, 12 May 11
now you have ayc file, then use this to play:
PLAY-AY .SCE
AYC is the same than AY file ?
Spectrum have his AY player SpecAY (http://www.worldofspectrum.org/projectay/ayplayers.htm) (it works OK) and this is possible for CPC ?
AYC player (play-ay.sce) could read *.AY files ? Maybe midi2ay.asm (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/midi2ay.asm) ? Or need the coversion AYtoYM (with Bulba's AY emulator) then YMtoAYC ... And play then play a "real" *.ayc ?
...aaand done. Hadn't noticed it, and indeed there should be no reason whatsoever for the OT section. That said, why didn't you post in that thread? :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 10:55, 15 March 11
Welcome back, mate! Really glad to have you here... :)
If you don't know about music I'd suggest (like Markus did) to pair up with a musician and share the project... it'll be much easier and the result will be much better....
PS About Markus' vid: I'm not sure if we're listening to the music or looking at the chicks...
There's music???? Damn...
Quote from: CP/M User on 09:38, 16 March 11
AA had a couple of Type-ins which dealt with capturing and digitalising sound (one being Sound Sampler (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:AmstradActionType-Ins_015_SoundDigitizer.png) I think from AA15), though the one I thought was pretty good is RSX Speech from AA85:
- http://cpcoxygen.fxwebdevelopment.com/amstrad_action/AA085/jpg/scans/aa85-40.jpg
- http://cpcoxygen.fxwebdevelopment.com/amstrad_action/AA085/jpg/scans/aa85-41.jpg
in one of the following AAs there was a patch for it which allowed people with 128k to put longer sound recordings in the extra 64k which made it really handy! ;D You can find it here (http://cpcoxygen.fxwebdevelopment.com/amstrad_action/AA087/jpg/scans/aa87-25.jpg)!
Thanks for this :). I was the one who wrote RSX Speech. I got £25 for it ha ha
Never seen this before! Will have to give it a try.
Quote from: Neil Hopkinson on 16:15, 16 October 12
Thanks for this :) . I was the one who wrote RSX Speech. I got £25 for it ha ha
Cool, it's always nice to hear from the authors. :) Somebody did a patch on your program, which was a Hot Tip in a later issue of AA Forum, which allowed anyone (I think) with 128k, to use the extra 64k to extend their Digital Sounds, wasn't sure if that was you or not. :)
EDIT: LOL I'm not reading my threads carefully enough. :D
Yeah it would of been sad when AA stopping handing out £25, just because people weren't sending in their own programs. :(
I remember only 1 RSX-Speech, which was a rip-off of Superior Software's speech.
It also had the original Superior Speech RSX commands, but they werent working.
Where can I find a copy of your RSX-Speech? :)
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 13:54, 25 October 12
I remember only 1 RSX-Speech, which was a rip-off of Superior Software's speech.
It also had the original Superior Speech RSX commands, but they werent working.
Where can I find a copy of your RSX-Speech? :)
I can type in the program which was in AA85 and post it here along with the Modifications which were in AA87 I think. It's not like RSX Speech I'm thinking of where you type in a RSX and it speaks whatever you've typed in. From memory the idea was to record a speech from Tape and the program had some way of capturing that sound, the modification of it from AA87 meant that if anyone had 128Kb, they could use the extra 64K for their Sound. Some of the stuff I was trying it on I think allowed up to 30 seconds of Digital sound. Only trouble is it might need a real CPC to do the job cause it works from Tape.
I never saw the patch in the AA87 edition though it sounded good but I was not the author. I have the program magazine as a pic if anyone wants it.