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General Category => Technical Support - General => Topic started by: Wobble_master on 15:04, 05 November 24

Title: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 15:04, 05 November 24
Hey and thanks for letting me join. I purchased a CPC464 with Green screen and a bunch of games for a bargin prices over the weekend, had one as a kid and wished I'd never let it go. Anyway's up shot if when it's powered on all I get is a Green Box on the display, from what I have read this seems to indicate a faulty RAM chip, the tape deck fasts forward and rewinds but there are no beeps if you press any keys? I have pulled it all apart and given it a good clean, but is there anything else that I could do while waiting for RAM? Thanks Alex
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: abalore on 16:12, 05 November 24
That doesn't look like a RAM problem to me, it looks either a monitor problem or an ASIC problem. Does it beep when you press the DEL key? Make sure to turn the volume wheel up.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 16:16, 05 November 24
No, nothing happens when you the volume is on and I press Del.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Rabs on 17:24, 05 November 24
@abalore , for these cost reduction boards does the ASIC include the 6845 CRTC functionality?       
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: abalore on 17:37, 05 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 16:16, 05 November 24No, nothing happens when you the volume is on and I press Del.

Next thing you can try is an external diagnostics cartridge, but if you don't want to waste more money, wait for the RAM and cross fingers. If it's the ASIC you'll have a beautiful brick. You can also send the motherboard to me for fixing, just for the cost of shipping and required components.

I'll leave a video on how to use a diagnostics tool:





Quote from: Rabs on 17:24, 05 November 24@abalore , for these cost reduction boards does the ASIC include the 6845 CRTC functionality?     

Yes
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 17:40, 05 November 24
Thanks, where can I get the diagnostics cartridge from? I may well take up on the repair if I'm unable to resolve. I have an external power and cable on order to eleminate the screen as being the problem.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: abalore on 17:55, 05 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 17:40, 05 November 24Thanks, where can I get the diagnostics cartridge from? I may well take up on the repair if I'm unable to resolve. I have an external power and cable on order to eleminate the screen as being the problem.

here is the hardware:

https://rancanuoteam.com/producto/cpc-mini-dual/

then you can install the diagnostics software as explained in the video.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 17:58, 05 November 24
Excellent, will have a look at this once I have checked the other parts. 
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Bryce on 20:06, 05 November 24
Hi,
     that looks very much like a dead ASIC. Have you checked the temperature of it? If you have a multimeter or a scope there are some pins you could check to confirm that it's a dead ASIC.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 20:56, 05 November 24
I've checked chip temps and nothing is getting overly warm, I have a multimeter if you can advise on the chips and pins to check that would be fab
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: BSC on 21:57, 05 November 24
Quote from: Rabs on 17:24, 05 November 24@abalore , for these cost reduction boards does the ASIC include the 6845 CRTC functionality?     
I was wondering what you guys were talking about when reading this thread on my mobile phone without being logged in (so I would not see any attachments).. Anyhow, now I am reading from my laptop and can see the images @Wobble_master attached. I think I have never seen a mainboard like the one in the first post. Is IC101 the ASIC you are talking about? What are IC102 and IC103 doing? 
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 22:15, 05 November 24
Quote from: BSC on 21:57, 05 November 24
Quote from: Rabs on 17:24, 05 November 24@abalore , for these cost reduction boards does the ASIC include the 6845 CRTC functionality?     
I was wondering what you guys were talking about when reading this thread on my mobile phone without being logged in (so I would not see any attachments).. Anyhow, now I am reading from my laptop and can see the images @Wobble_master attached. I think I have never seen a mainboard like the one in the first post. Is IC101 the ASIC you are talking about? What are IC102 and IC103 doing?
As part of my research for a fix, I only saw 1 other board like this one and they used it to show the variety of revisions, if memory serves its D1. My 1st concern were the 2 black wires, but they showed the same on the other one I saw.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 22:22, 05 November 24
Bit more research on here and it looks like it was the last board produced:

Board: PT NO Z80329, MC0099A, Copyright 1988
MC0099A board fitted with 2x41464 (64Kx4 bits) chips instead of 8x4164 (64Kx1 bit) chips.

https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Mainboard_Versions



Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 22:27, 05 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 22:22, 05 November 24Bit more research on here and it looks like it was the last board produced:

Board: PT NO Z80329, MC0099A, Copyright 1988
MC0099A board fitted with 2x41464 (64Kx4 bits) chips instead of 8x4164 (64Kx1 bit) chips.

https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Mainboard_Versions




I've just noticed that on the image shown on here of my board there are 2 chips above the RAM, on my board they are missing?
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 22:39, 05 November 24
Mine matches this board:

Board: PT NO Z80329, MC0099A, Copyright 1988
Tiny mainboard. Uses 100pin SMD Gate Array (combines the old Gate Array, CRTC, and some FDC/DRAM/RESET logic in one chip).

But has D1 as a revision, the board above has D2
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: robcfg on 23:54, 05 November 24
QuoteI've just noticed that on the image shown on here of my board there are 2 chips above the RAM, on my board they are missing?
The board can use either 8x4164 chips or 2x41464 chips as ram options.

Yours obviously is using eight 4164 ram chips, so no missing chips on your board.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 07:04, 06 November 24
Thanks for confirming the board type. 
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Bryce on 16:18, 06 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 20:56, 05 November 24I've checked chip temps and nothing is getting overly warm, I have a multimeter if you can advise on the chips and pins to check that would be fab

If you take a look at the GX4000 or CPC+ Schematics you can see the full ASIC pinout and functions. I'd start by checking the CLK signals and then move on to outputs to the DAC. However, before doing any of that, I'd try swapping out the CPU.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 18:18, 06 November 24
Quote from: Bryce on 16:18, 06 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 20:56, 05 November 24I've checked chip temps and nothing is getting overly warm, I have a multimeter if you can advise on the chips and pins to check that would be fab

If you take a look at the GX4000 or CPC+ Schematics you can see the full ASIC pinout and functions. I'd start by checking the CLK signals and then move on to outputs to the DAC. However, before doing any of that, I'd try swapping out the CPU.

Bryce.

've got the schematics to reference pins, just to confirm is this a continuity test with the power on to the board?

Thanks
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Bryce on 19:01, 06 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 18:18, 06 November 24
Quote from: Bryce on 16:18, 06 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 20:56, 05 November 24I've checked chip temps and nothing is getting overly warm, I have a multimeter if you can advise on the chips and pins to check that would be fab

If you take a look at the GX4000 or CPC+ Schematics you can see the full ASIC pinout and functions. I'd start by checking the CLK signals and then move on to outputs to the DAC. However, before doing any of that, I'd try swapping out the CPU.

Bryce.

've got the schematics to reference pins, just to confirm is this a continuity test with the power on to the board?

Thanks

No, you should check if any voltage or signal is present on each pin while the CPC is running.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 19:55, 06 November 24
Thanks, will be the weekend now. 
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 13:48, 11 November 24
Quote from: abalore on 17:37, 05 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 16:16, 05 November 24No, nothing happens when you the volume is on and I press Del.

Next thing you can try is an external diagnostics cartridge, but if you don't want to waste more money, wait for the RAM and cross fingers. If it's the ASIC you'll have a beautiful brick. You can also send the motherboard to me for fixing, just for the cost of shipping and required components.

I'll leave a video on how to use a diagnostics tool:





Quote from: Rabs on 17:24, 05 November 24@abalore , for these cost reduction boards does the ASIC include the 6845 CRTC functionality?     

Yes
@abalore , I have a Dandanator on order if I get nothing from this I'd like to take you up on the repair as I could spend a fortune on just replacing parts, and tools to do so.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: abalore on 14:01, 11 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 13:48, 11 November 24
Quote from: abalore on 17:37, 05 November 24
Quote from: Wobble_master on 16:16, 05 November 24No, nothing happens when you the volume is on and I press Del.

Next thing you can try is an external diagnostics cartridge, but if you don't want to waste more money, wait for the RAM and cross fingers. If it's the ASIC you'll have a beautiful brick. You can also send the motherboard to me for fixing, just for the cost of shipping and required components.

I'll leave a video on how to use a diagnostics tool:





Quote from: Rabs on 17:24, 05 November 24@abalore , for these cost reduction boards does the ASIC include the 6845 CRTC functionality?     

Yes
@abalore , I have a Dandanator on order if I get nothing from this I'd like to take you up on the repair as I could spend a fortune on just replacing parts, and tools to do so.
perfect, will send you a PM
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 14:53, 11 November 24
60Hz set.... maybe

@Wobble_master have You oscilloscope or multimeter ?
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: abalore on 15:14, 11 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 14:53, 11 November 2460Hz set.... maybe

@Wobble_master have You oscilloscope or multimeter ?
We already stated that the unit doesn't beep when DEL key is pressed after turning on, so it's something more than just the bad image.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 15:22, 11 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 14:53, 11 November 2460Hz set.... maybe

@Wobble_master have You oscilloscope or multimeter ?
I have a multimeter and logic probe, I'm struggling with the schematics against the later costs down board saving board in mine. Has anyone got a basis diagram of the layout. 
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 15:37, 11 November 24
Internet not remember pinout ASIC3 AMS40226  :-X

Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 15:51, 11 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 15:37, 11 November 24Internet not remember pinout ASIC3 AMS40226  :-X


Found the pin out for the ASIC
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 16:20, 11 November 24
Try found 4MHz Clock signal on Pin6 CPU and 1MHz on WAIT signal on PIN24 CPU with duty 25%
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 16:34, 11 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 16:20, 11 November 24Try found 4MHz Clock signal on Pin6 CPU and 1MHz on WAIT signal on PIN24 CPU with duty 25%
I think I'd need an oscilloscope for that, all I have is multimeter and logic probe. 

Thanks 🙏 
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 16:38, 11 November 24
Add photo this multimeter and logic probe
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 17:10, 11 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 16:38, 11 November 24Add photo this multimeter and logic probe
[(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x1dl6ohv0tlx9k69gg3pv/IMG_4732.jpg?rlkey=7s184du3vxe1xkmfka2ab0me5&st=g3o9b06f&dl=0)]

Hopefully you can see the image?
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 17:14, 11 November 24
Preview and  Click or drag files here to attach them.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 17:15, 11 November 24
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x1dl6ohv0tlx9k69gg3pv/IMG_4732.jpg?rlkey=7s184du3vxe1xkmfka2ab0me5&st=g3o9b06f&dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x1dl6ohv0tlx9k69gg3pv/IMG_4732.jpg?rlkey=7s184du3vxe1xkmfka2ab0me5&st=g3o9b06f&dl=0)

Image of the Meter and logic probe
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 17:16, 11 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 17:14, 11 November 24Preview and  Click or drag files here to attach them.
Got it, thanks 👍
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 18:52, 11 November 24
Ok use oscillophone.

Set speeker volume  louder.

Cross Pin1 expansion port (sound) and Pin16 CPU (INT) You should hear 300Hz sound.

Try this on Synchro Pin videoPort too (60Hz)
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 00:45, 12 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 18:52, 11 November 24Ok use oscillophone.

Set speeker volume  louder.

Cross Pin1 expansion port (sound) and Pin16 CPU (INT) You should hear 300Hz sound.

Try this on Synchro Pin videoPort too (60Hz)
Will give this a try tomorrow, also order this to help
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 01:09, 12 November 24
Its not help

Minimum is DPOX180H
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 01:11, 12 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 18:52, 11 November 24Ok use oscillophone.

Set speeker volume  louder.

Cross Pin1 expansion port (sound) and Pin16 CPU (INT) You should hear 300Hz sound.

Try this on Synchro Pin videoPort too (60Hz)
You only need one wire for this.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 18:36, 12 November 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 01:09, 12 November 24Its not help

Minimum is DPOX180H
Is this just because its doesn't have a probe?  Will try you suggestion tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: McArti0 on 19:12, 12 November 24
DSO152 mini   2,5MSa/s 200KHz   ... You need 100-200 times more ...
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: abalore on 17:58, 19 November 24
Board fixed, it was a bad RAM IC
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: abalore on 18:04, 19 November 24
@Wobble_master but you at least should have been able to see the screen geometry, so don't discard the monitor is also broken. A 2x1 scam :(
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 13:56, 21 November 24
Quote from: abalore on 17:58, 19 November 24Board fixed, it was a bad RAM IC
Wow can't wait to get it back and have a play. Might not be everyone taste but I loved the Dizzy games.
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 22:44, 22 November 24
Quote from: abalore on 18:04, 19 November 24@Wobble_master but you at least should have been able to see the screen geometry, so don't discard the monitor is also broken. A 2x1 scam :(
I have no plans to get rid of the green screen as that will complete my 80's experience of having a CPC464 😊
Title: Re: Green Screen When Powered-up
Post by: Wobble_master on 11:40, 02 December 24
Massive thanks to @abalore for fixing my CPC board, just playing Bomb Jack 👌👌👌👌
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