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General Category => Games => Topic started by: roudoudou on 09:07, 18 July 17

Title: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: roudoudou on 09:07, 18 July 17
Guys, I have created a new topic, as suggested, with the discussion about the motivation, etc.  :)

You realize you could get paid for producing a good game for the machine?! You have a game idea? :)


can't imagine the hourly wage...
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: keith56 on 11:59, 18 July 17
You realize you could get paid for producing a good game for the machine?! You have a game idea? :)

Get paid for writing CPC games? I'm struggling to get anyone interested in playing mine for free, as the THREE replies in the new game's thread shows... and ZERO replies to my 'Letsplay video: request for questions'... I don't want to make YT videos, but am having to as I have few options for promoting my game - and even then no one can be bothered to give any feedback.

I literally get more positive feedback on twitter for repairing broken MSX'es or doing beginners Spectrum coding than I do for six months of CPC development

Yes I'm bitter about it!

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Targhan on 13:33, 18 July 17
Off-Topic:
Quote
Yes I'm bitter about it!

I'm really sorry to hear that, especially since your game is trully good and innovative. Keep on going though!
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: AMSDOS on 14:37, 18 July 17
Get paid for writing CPC games? I'm struggling to get anyone interested in playing mine for free, as the THREE replies in the new game's thread shows... and ZERO replies to my 'Letsplay video: request for questions'... I don't want to make YT videos, but am having to as I have few options for promoting my game - and even then no one can be bothered to give any feedback.

I literally get more positive feedback on twitter for repairing broken MSX'es or doing beginners Spectrum coding than I do for six months of CPC development

Yes I'm bitter about it!


A page on the Wiki and a Link on the Main Page under CPC Related News should help with that.


I put my game (DSK and CDT images) on the Wiki, which I think now would of been better had I uploaded it to the Games Section in the Downloads. The Wiki is simply there to handle the pages and Links to the Downloads section, though I mainly code just for producing something a bit different, though enjoyable as well.
I think if you try and code something to something similar, which has been produced before, it might still be a great program, though it simply becomes another piece of software that falls into a category of a long bunch of well remembered games.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 15:23, 18 July 17
Get paid for writing CPC games? I'm struggling to get anyone interested in playing mine for free, as the THREE replies in the new game's thread shows... and ZERO replies to my 'Letsplay video: request for questions'... I don't want to make YT videos, but am having to as I have few options for promoting my game - and even then no one can be bothered to give any feedback.

I literally get more positive feedback on twitter for repairing broken MSX'es or doing beginners Spectrum coding than I do for six months of CPC development

Yes I'm bitter about it!

Overall the market is flooded with games in these modern times. Create a game for Android and you can forget about anyone playing your game, because it drowns in all the other titles. Try making one for Steam, and you'll receive a lot of negative comments trying to get it Greenlighted.

So if it is players you're looking for, I'm convinced you'll have more luck finding them by developing a game for a retro-computer, than for any modern platform. The CPC is a great platform to create games for these days.

I am a bit surprised to read your words here. I had a strong impression that your game was very popular. Didn't your initial thread have a lot of interest? I'm also certain I've seen at least two YouTube videos covering your game.
I admit I haven't tried it myself yet though, but that's mostly because I've been overbooked with a lot of other stuff. :-/
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Targhan on 15:26, 18 July 17
We can discuss this in another thread, but with Orion Prime, which I think was a great success, we made the promotion in many retro forums. There are also many non-english CPC forums which can be addressed to.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 19:49, 18 July 17
Get paid for writing CPC games? I'm struggling to get anyone interested in playing mine for free, as the THREE replies in the new game's thread shows... and ZERO replies to my 'Letsplay video: request for questions'... I don't want to make YT videos, but am having to as I have few options for promoting my game - and even then no one can be bothered to give any feedback.

I literally get more positive feedback on twitter for repairing broken MSX'es or doing beginners Spectrum coding than I do for six months of CPC development

Yes I'm bitter about it!
I'm sorry to hear about your experience , I havent checked out your game, cos I havent been online for a while ,so will do. I think interest is more to do with awareness and organisation of this hobby . This Wiki is pretty decent and works very well with plenty of traffic . I am sure if that traffic can show a bit more love for the cpc . Money could be focused toward the right projects ? Who knows ,
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 01:10, 19 July 17
Get paid for writing CPC games? I'm struggling to get anyone interested in playing mine for free, as the THREE replies in the new game's thread shows... and ZERO replies to my 'Letsplay video: request for questions'... I don't want to make YT videos, but am having to as I have few options for promoting my game - and even then no one can be bothered to give any feedback.

I literally get more positive feedback on twitter for repairing broken MSX'es or doing beginners Spectrum coding than I do for six months of CPC development

Yes I'm bitter about it!

Actually, I believe that the fact that the people is not answering does not mean that they/we are not interested in your game  :) At least I can say that I am following the development with great interest, although I have never commented in a Youtube video in my life and I did not write anything in the thread. I really like it though, and I will for sure play it when it is released, same as I did with the first part. Sometimes we are just a bit lazy showing the support, but it is there :)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: keith56 on 11:22, 19 July 17
I am a bit surprised to read your words here. I had a strong impression that your game was very popular. Didn't your initial thread have a lot of interest? I'm also certain I've seen at least two YouTube videos covering your game.

Ok, well here's the low down on the popularity of my game!
1. I've had a couple of twitter messages, and a couple of CPC wiki pms - I think they total about 10 or so all in... I don't think I've recieved a single email of feedback since it's release (I got two, but they were replies to emails I had sent)
2. Website used to get good daily hits, but about 3 months after the games release, they dropped to near zero - all the hits I get now look like bot/hacker action ... remember the first game took 6 months of work to make - so that's a shortfall of 3 months of zero encouragement
3. the Chibiakumas ep1 thread got a total of 33 replies, but 14 of those were ME bumping my own thread to try to keep interest in the game... That means only 19 people actually commented on the first game

now check this thread out:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/street-fighter-ii-cpc/
This is a thread about the Us-gold SF2 game (not the new one that's actually being developed) .. 44 replies to date ... about 2 days after the announcement of Chibi Akumas EP2 it had 22... more than both my games combined... and by that point Episode 2 announcement had been pushed off the 'recent posts' section of the first page.

SO people would rather whine about a game that never came out in 1992, by a company that never did any work on it, and being lied to by a magazine 20 years ago, than to show support for someone who has already released one game, and is working now to release a second one?... yes it seems so.

Some people have been great, diligently retweeting my posts, and people like Xyphoe and Novabug have kindly done videos of my game,  but Everyone on this site is tech literate, you all know give or take how Social networks and Google ranking work... and you don't need a website/blog/youtube channel to help promote developers... if people retweet/share/link/comment/bump your posts, they reach more people, if they do not, it doesn't matter if you've made the best game on the planet, no one will ever hear of it.

Well anyways, Chibi Akumas Ep2 is coming out on schedule whatever happens, but I've been forced to rethink my future plans, and I'm now having to aim for multiplatform on MSX/Spectrum and CPC for my releases, and that's going to mean a drop in the functionality of the CPC version.
I just can't get enough positive feedback on the CPC alone to keep putting the hours of work into this that are required to make the games I want to produce.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: TMR on 11:59, 19 July 17
Well anyways, Chibi Akumas Ep2 is coming out on schedule whatever happens, but I've been forced to rethink my future plans, and I'm now having to aim for multiplatform on MSX/Spectrum and CPC for my releases, and that's going to mean a drop in the functionality of the CPC version.
I just can't get enough positive feedback on the CPC alone to keep putting the hours of work into this that are required to make the games I want to produce.

As a developer i've settled into taking a lack of feedback as positive in the sense that the people not responding means they couldn't find something negative to say. i just get on with coding for my own entertainment and education these days and letting the results out into the wild occasionally in the hope that some people might enjoy them. And i can't even get a review or interview in Retro Gamer! =-)

Yes it does suck to release something and get mostly tumbleweeds in response especially if you've put a lot of effort into it and are proud of that work, i've been upset by the same thing in the past which is how i accidentally ended up writing reviews and news about new 8- and later 16-bit games over the last twenty something years... i'm going for a lie down now, i suddenly feel old!
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:00, 19 July 17
Yeah, that's a shame. I try to like posts to do the encouragement aspect, but I'll try and reply more in future.


Doing a Speccy version is a good idea. The Spectrum Next is something you should look at, it's a Spectrum with (IMO) improved CPC Plus features tacked on, and faster CPU, in an FPGA. So you get hardware sprites (256 colour, 12 per scanline, 64 in the sprite bank), and even a 256 colour screen above/below the Speccy screen (with hardware scroll). They have got a 14MHz Z80 working with all the sprites and additional screen, and there's a 28MHz Z80 option that needs more timing work (I'm guessing memory access is getting tight here). There's about 3000 buyers of the board, and they're going to be active.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 12:58, 19 July 17
Ok, well here's the low down on the popularity of my game!
1. I've had a couple of twitter messages, and a couple of CPC wiki pms - I think they total about 10 or so all in... I don't think I've recieved a single email of feedback since it's release (I got two, but they were replies to emails I had sent)
2. Website used to get good daily hits, but about 3 months after the games release, they dropped to near zero - all the hits I get now look like bot/hacker action ... remember the first game took 6 months of work to make - so that's a shortfall of 3 months of zero encouragement
3. the Chibiakumas ep1 thread got a total of 33 replies, but 14 of those were ME bumping my own thread to try to keep interest in the game... That means only 19 people actually commented on the first game
...
I just can't get enough positive feedback on the CPC alone to keep putting the hours of work into this that are required to make the games I want to produce.

Well... I think most devs can relate to your frustration. We start out being very enthusiastic about our game project, imagining everyone will enjoy it just as much as we do ourselves. But that is rarely what happens.
So first thing to keep in mind: It doesn't only happen to you.
Next thing to keep in mind: It would happen on any other platform as well.

My girlfriend and I created an Android game "Pirate Diamonds" (www.PirateDiamonds.com) in our sparetime. It took us years, learning Android code, learning Blender to create the graphics, creating the music, matching the tones of the music to events in the game, donating to the author of the mod-player lib, adding options to challenge friends via SMS (thinking that would spread the game), etc etc. Result: No one is playing the game.
We had previously created "Ukko's Journey" (www.UkkosJourney.com) for the older cellphones, which didn't do that great either. (Ad-provider sucked). And now we decided to do a version for Blu-ray, playable on the modern gaming consoles (www.Blu-Play.com/games), while trying to get other Java devs interested in the platform. Nothing.
We also created "Space Rivals (http://cpc-power.com/?page=detail&num=12497)" for the CPC; a 4-player game. Targhan was the only one who posted a positive feedback comment on that one. I doubt anyone else even knows what it is.
My brother created "Another Rocket Game" with a mate of his. Took them at least 5 years creating their own level-editors and lots of levels and graphics etc etc. Then they tried to get it greenlighted on Steam, but got bashed by comments instead.

In other words: You are far from alone, if that's any comfort...
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: keith56 on 13:22, 19 July 17
In other words: You are far from alone, if that's any comfort...
Yeah, it is. I dunno, it just sucks when I see all the games on here that are stuck on 'preview' with no sign of an actual release date that have page after page of enthusiastic feedback...
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/other-retro/robocop-prime/
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/super-mario-bros-on-cpc-464-still-alive!/msg138202/#msg138202

don't get me wrong, good luck to them! but it sucks I can't get any of that for my finished game... I thought if I started teasing the game a few months before the release of episode 2 the overall response would be better this time, but as my massive 3 replys show I guess that's not happening

It doesn't really matter if the MSX/Spectrum communities give more feedback or not (though judging from what I've seen on twitter - they will), I can port all my game logic code, and level maps as is, and I can convert my graphics, and release the game on a new system for half the development time of a new game on the CPC

the next game wasn't going to even be a shooting game, so it would have been a total game engine rewrite even if it was CPC only, I just don't have the enthusiasm to start again from scratch right now.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 14:35, 19 July 17
Yea, I don't know what it is that makes the difference.

Take "Pirate Diamonds". Complete fail on Android. But actually it's just a "modern deluxe version" of Sort'em (http://www.lublu.dk/index.php?sideid=317&listepostnr=0); our very first J2ME game (for older cellphones), which actually did pretty good. We made a decent amount of pocket money on Sort'em back then. So we know the concept itself is/was a success. It just didn't fly on Android despite being higher quality and supposedly more people play games on Android than on the old J2ME enabled phones.
My conclusion: The market is just overflooded - especially on Android.

Later on we made a CPC version of Sort'em (http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=2214), which was my very first machine-code CPC game, and also first C experience. Very amateurish. So nothing to be proud of really. But it got much more attention than Space Rivals. Even got a review in Retro Gamer, which was a rather big surprise. It definitely isn't in the league of "Retro Gamer Reviews" in my opinion. But Space Rivals should have been.

At the end of the day, what we see is a complete lack of logic. It appears to be about luck. So what to do then?

Well, I think the best thing anyone can do is simply to ask for lots and lots of feedback and input. Use lots of betatesters for example, and take their feedback very serious. You may not find their feedback logical - but you should seriously consider implementing their suggestions anyway. This is always difficult, because we feel very attached to our projects, and don't want other people "ruining" it. We will instinctively reject most input. But if you want a bigger chance of success, you gotta give people what they want. Simple really.

We made a mistake that way when developing Ukko's Journey. A lot of our betatesters reported the difficulty being too hard. We ignored it because WE could easily beat the game, and we didn't want to bore people by making it too easy. Result: No one (except us) has ever reached level 4 in the game. (And we're talking 8 years now). People do still upload highscores, which is a bit fun, but no one has ever completed the game.

Implement options to please more people. For Space Rivals, we had betatesters say that it was too slow. But I definitely didn't want to speed it up. Solution: Create a "Turbo Mode" option. That way I could keep the normal speed, while also offering a faster "just for fun" version.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 18:21, 19 July 17
Yeah, it is. I dunno, it just sucks when I see all the games on here that are stuck on 'preview' with no sign of an actual release date that have page after page of enthusiastic feedback...
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/other-retro/robocop-prime/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/other-retro/robocop-prime/)
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/super-mario-bros-on-cpc-464-still-alive!/msg138202/#msg138202 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/super-mario-bros-on-cpc-464-still-alive!/msg138202/#msg138202)

don't get me wrong, good luck to them! but it sucks I can't get any of that for my finished game... I thought if I started teasing the game a few months before the release of episode 2 the overall response would be better this time, but as my massive 3 replys show I guess that's not happening

It doesn't really matter if the MSX/Spectrum communities give more feedback or not (though judging from what I've seen on twitter - they will), I can port all my game logic code, and level maps as is, and I can convert my graphics, and release the game on a new system for half the development time of a new game on the CPC

the next game wasn't going to even be a shooting game, so it would have been a total game engine rewrite even if it was CPC only, I just don't have the enthusiasm to start again from scratch right now.
I think issue is , Spectrum has a much larger retro devoted fanbase. CPC is always going to lag because of its market share at the time. And the Retro scene is going to be about Nostalgia more than anything. Even with a decent set up on Wiki CPC. There are a lot less people to rave about games , And when you have less numbers to show enthusiasm, people avoid showing it.
I've always been impressed with your stuff , but I don't think you need my support. I think you are making a decent point and does go to show how discouraging it is for people who have programmed for other machines and not the hardcore CPC programmer who knows what a tough job it can be as a fan of this machine
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Shining on 22:49, 19 July 17
Perhaps the moderators could split this thread. But because keith56 speaks out exactly what I'm thinking all the time, I want to add also my 2 cents to this:


I really love to code games for the cpc and I never ever wanted or thought that you can earn money with that. I did defence for free including a special edition at cost price. And also, I did pentomino. Look for example at pentomino: I was very glad that I had someone doing the gfx and I had much fun coding this one. The game can be downloaded at many places in the web, for example at my site. Regarding cpc.scifinet.org, I've recorded 259 downloads of pentomino, not knowing how many in total. But look at the thread in the forum: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/pentomino/ There are 6 posts. Two from me and one from the gfx-artist.


I thought, that I'm doing these games for the fun of coding and for all the other cpc-freaks out there. But doing such things on this beloved old machine lives from the feedback of you. This is our food, this is the payment for our work. If you like the games, tools, programs, the coders and artists do, or even if you dislike them, say it ! I'm really into doing more, but as keith56, I need feedback if it is worth to do and not for the trashbin.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Nich on 00:35, 20 July 17
We also created "Space Rivals (http://cpc-power.com/?page=detail&num=12497)" for the CPC; a 4-player game. Targhan was the only one who posted a positive feedback comment on that one. I doubt anyone else even knows what it is.

I know what Space Rivals is! Unfortunately it requires at least 2 players, and the computer can't control any of the players - so I guess the ability of CPC fans to play it is quite limited. I certainly don't have anyone else to play it with, which is a shame because it looks like a fairly entertaining little game.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Nich on 00:49, 20 July 17
Well... I think most devs can relate to your frustration. We start out being very enthusiastic about our game project, imagining everyone will enjoy it just as much as we do ourselves. But that is rarely what happens.
So first thing to keep in mind: It doesn't only happen to you.

Your story is reassuring to hear! A couple of years ago, I tried to convert another Spectrum game to the CPC (having already converted two games years before with a reasonable degree of success), but it was taking me far longer than I expected, and I had difficulty understanding a lot of the code, so I gave up. I felt it just wasn't worth the effort when only a few dozen people at most would download and play it. :(

I've been spending months trying to learn programming on the PC, and again, it's taking a lot longer than I thought it would - but at least I now know that it has taken other people a very long time to produce and release something. I still have a long way to go before I reach that milestone.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Targhan on 01:20, 20 July 17
I guess the CPC community should really learn to send feedback whenever it can. I always try to send feedback when I can, but it's not always easy (sometimes, you simply don't like the production. In this case, I prefer not to say anything, I admit).


Orion Prime was a great success, but Imperial Mahjong's was of course much more limited, though it had more success than I thought, especially for a puzzle game. So this made me think: my next game WILL be a more "commercial" game. But a game I'll like first, because no one can pretend finishing a game he wouldn't want to play. But without feedback, one simply don't want to produce anymore.


Third point, is there anywhere a very simple web page with all the productions, as thumbnails, of the various productions done these last years? Wouldn't that be a good idea not to miss anything? One static page with nothing else than thumbnails. I'm pretty sure this would be efficient for people not to miss anything, even if they come here only once a year. But maybe this exists already...
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: andycadley on 02:24, 20 July 17

In all retro communities, not just the CPC, a lot of the "scene" interest is in nostalgia. New games and software are already, therefore, pitching at best to a minority of a small community. With platforms like the C64 and Speccy there is a slightly bigger exposure and so "bigger" releases might get spread a little further, but even that can be a bit limited.


Remakes of old games get a kind of bonus from nostalgia that entirely new titles don't. The people who have always had that nagging feeling R-Type could've been better, or that Double Dragon needed a third version or who still just like to grumble about all those promises of Street Fighter 2. There is as much conversation there about the "old days" as about any new developments. And ironically they're the least likely projects to get finished - both because replicating an existing title is harder and because living up to the expectations in people's heads is sometimes impossible.


And that's kind of why it has to be a labour of love. If you enjoy writing retro games for a niche piece of hardware go for it (and I hope you do, the first chibi seemed technically excellent if not exactly my cup of tea). If you want the adoration of the masses, release thousands of those hidden item/match 3 games for Android that seem intent on fleecing you out of house and home (that's where the masses are, after all).


Do it because you want to and then the end result really only has to please you. Code cross platform if you want, it's an interesting challenge if only because it can open your eyes to quite why so many "quick port" jobs ended up a bit clunky and why certain compromises got made to cut development time. Most of all have fun doing whatever you do, because that's really the best reward for dicking around with computers most people think belong in the trash.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 02:43, 20 July 17
I concur.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: TomEtJerry on 08:32, 20 July 17
Stop depressing guys, you have entered the real world.  :-X

Joking aside, we all have faced this lake of feedback about homemade tools, games, demoes, music or anything you can imagine. That's just human even it's sad : in general, people contact you to complain about bugs or because they want something.

I think it's less the same with adventure games like Orion Prime. People use to open threads on forums trying to solve the quest. I am sure that Thargan has received far less comments about the marvellous "Imperial Mahjong" than on Orion Prime.

Selling a CPC game with physical packaging should help to estimate the popularity of a program but that's time consumming and some buyers are just collectors, they don't play.

To me, a good way to have little feedback, it's to go to meetings or retrogaming events to present your game when it's still in development.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: roudoudou on 09:24, 20 July 17
To me, a good way to have little feedback, it's to go to meetings or retrogaming events to present your game when it's still in development.


+10.000  :P
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: pacomix on 09:50, 20 July 17
Or probably the games were not really interesting for the people. As simple as that.


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Dubliner on 11:06, 20 July 17
I can't find it right now but there's a popular comic doing the rounds on twitter that it's mostly a conversation like this:

- Oh, i like that work.
- You should tell the creator something
- Nah, that's fine.

-Oh, that work is really lame. HEY, YOUR WORK SUCKS AND YOU SHOULD DIE.

We all should learn something. We, fans, should give more feedback about the things we like. And you, developers, if you don't get any feedback, probably it's because you are doing it right enough. I guess it sucks, but it should not be the end of the world.

P.S.: I do not have the time i used to have to write, but i did spent some of my very scarce free time three days ago on your new project. I hope it helps a bit http://retromaniacmagazine.blogspot.de/2017/07/a-punto-de-caramelo-chibi-akumas-ep-2.html

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: MiguelSky on 11:10, 20 July 17
About feedback in forum threads, I think the number of replies is not an accurate indicator of feedback as the number of likes (or downloads) is. I think not constructive comments (great, amazing, etc) are pleasant but don't help as feedback, because a good bunch of them are thrown even before playing the game.


Also, I think CPC games are little known out of our circle and, as TomEtJerry comments, showing games in meetings put them in sight to more people than us. It is needed to find a good means of showing CPC games in internet as CPC related sites (octoate, cpcwiki, amstrad.es...) are not enough... Perhaps retrofanzines are?


EDIT: Haha, Dubliner thinks as me :D
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:15, 20 July 17
Don't forget to count the forum likes ;)

I give a lot of positive feedback using likes and lots of others do.

The best way to know if somebody is using it is when they report bugs, or perhaps they get stuck on a difficult puzzle and need help ;)

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Shining on 12:09, 20 July 17
Remakes of old games get a kind of bonus from nostalgia that entirely new titles don't. The people who have always had that nagging feeling R-Type could've been better, or that Double Dragon needed a third version or who still just like to grumble about all those promises of Street Fighter 2. There is as much conversation there about the "old days" as about any new developments. And ironically they're the least likely projects to get finished - both because replicating an existing title is harder and because living up to the expectations in people's heads is sometimes impossible.


When I read across the forum here, I think, that you're right. All those threads about "what if when this game was in mode x or if this had hardwarescroll or that wasn't a speccy-port" and the threads about (unfinished) remakes are the ones that are hot. In the past, I thought that the community is more interested in new original games but perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps I should consider this...
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: AMSDOS on 12:53, 20 July 17
Your story is reassuring to hear! A couple of years ago, I tried to convert another Spectrum game to the CPC (having already converted two games years before with a reasonable degree of success), but it was taking me far longer than I expected, and I had difficulty understanding a lot of the code, so I gave up. I felt it just wasn't worth the effort when only a few dozen people at most would download and play it. :(


I've been still trying to nail that ZBLAST SD, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Dubliner on 13:24, 20 July 17
I do actually belive that the real problem is that people spend more time talking than playing nowdays. It's easier talking about previously known material than spending some time researching new games in order to talk.

But i can tell you from my own experience as part of the organization team of a nice retroevent in south Spain: people really love a nice new homebrew game. This year, for example, there were, of course, lots people playing to one Street Fighter 2 demo, and talking a lot of good things about it. But there were also a lot of people spending some time playing Relentless with @ronaldo (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1227)'s CPC and praising the game, or asking about SymbOS.

I trully believe more people would like homebrew games if they actually play them, but in this modern world of no time, doing everything quick and spending half your freetime collecting likes in social networks, playing was left out of the equation.

As any other hobby, the "journey" should be the reward. We should keep doing the things we like because we like doing it and as long as we like it. If you also get positive feedback, that's really great and makes you feel really good, but usually that positive feedback is a small portion of the time you give in a project.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Joseman on 14:58, 20 July 17
I Spend HOURS and DAYS with the new games!!

4mhz games (days), relevo games (days), Esp Soft (days), Shining's Defence (Days)... Cargo Soft games, Imperial Mahjong (days, with my girlfriend), Orion Prime (weeks, and months!!), Bubble Bobble remake by cngsoft (Months), Top Top by Rantan Games, i'll kill if they do the game with 100 levels (for playing with my girlfriend) and a lot more!!

I read all the post of chibi akuma, but CERO feedback (sorry), on summer i don't have time to play!!

I use the M4 all the days, expansion memory all the days...

Feedback to the developers nearly 0!! Sorry for that!!

But you all are totally WRONG if you think that the new games that you're developing aren't played. My friends with CPC even my girlfriend and I (HOURS of playing)

People download and play, feedback not so much, but I think that this happens on all the aspects of life!
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: andycadley on 15:26, 20 July 17

Certainly people will play them, even if they don't comment back for whatever reason. Chances are at least someone out there will get some enjoyment out of it but they won't always let you know it.


One of the most interesting bits of feedback I ever got was someone asking me questions about an Mym music player for the cpc, because the original website was no longer available. It actually took me ages to remember that I had not only once had a website a one point, but that I had ever written a music player for the CPC at all.... You never quite know what people will find useful or fun and the long tail on some things can be very long indeed.


Above all, still have fun! :-)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:54, 20 July 17
If you program for the C64 and even if you try to sell it it will get cracked and put up on csdb almost the next day ;)

That is what happened to me for Stranded on the C64. I was selling it through Cronosoft. The game got cracked almost immediately and then the crackers took the credit.

I never coded on C64 again.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Dubliner on 18:41, 20 July 17
Top Top by Rantan Games, i'll kill if they do the game with 100 levels (for playing with my girlfriend)


They actually said today that they are still working on the final release, so keep your fingers crossed.

If you program for the C64 and even if you try to sell it it will get cracked and put up on csdb almost the next day ;)

That is what happened to me for Stranded on the C64. I was selling it through Cronosoft. The game got cracked almost immediately and then the crackers took the credit.

I never coded on C64 again.


That's exactly what happend to my friend, who did the C64 port of Abu Simbel Profanation. Minutes after publishing it in his website was cracked and posted on csdb without crediting the original autor. Rubbish.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Joseman on 19:23, 20 July 17
They actually said today that they are still working on the final release, so keep your fingers crossed.

Hi

Where they did said that? twitter account?

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Rhino on 21:28, 20 July 17
Well... I think most devs can relate to your frustration. We start out being very enthusiastic about our game project, imagining everyone will enjoy it just as much as we do ourselves. But that is rarely what happens.
So first thing to keep in mind: It doesn't only happen to you.
Next thing to keep in mind: It would happen on any other platform as well.

My girlfriend and I created an Android game "Pirate Diamonds" (www.PirateDiamonds.com (http://www.PirateDiamonds.com)) in our sparetime. It took us years, learning Android code, learning Blender to create the graphics, creating the music, matching the tones of the music to events in the game, donating to the author of the mod-player lib, adding options to challenge friends via SMS (thinking that would spread the game), etc etc. Result: No one is playing the game.
We had previously created "Ukko's Journey" (www.UkkosJourney.com (http://www.UkkosJourney.com)) for the older cellphones, which didn't do that great either. (Ad-provider sucked). And now we decided to do a version for Blu-ray, playable on the modern gaming consoles (www.Blu-Play.com/games (http://www.Blu-Play.com/games)), while trying to get other Java devs interested in the platform. Nothing.
We also created "Space Rivals (http://cpc-power.com/?page=detail&num=12497)" for the CPC; a 4-player game. Targhan was the only one who posted a positive feedback comment on that one. I doubt anyone else even knows what it is.
My brother created "Another Rocket Game" with a mate of his. Took them at least 5 years creating their own level-editors and lots of levels and graphics etc etc. Then they tried to get it greenlighted on Steam, but got bashed by comments instead.

In other words: You are far from alone, if that's any comfort...

I also have some experience developing for mobile.

In a first stage of J2ME (from 2004 until the launch of the Iphone App Store), It was complicated to publish games since they were sold mainly as content of the operators portals (Vodafone, Orange, etc...). And, once they had their content providers, they did not deal with small indie developers (at least in Spain).

When the iPhone appeared, the whole market changed. Apple was able to get 90% of developers to work for his platform and abandon j2me. It created a big bubble that continues today. At that time, other manufacturers like Nokia and Blackberry copied the model of free store, and in the early years, there was a great opportunity there because surprisingly, even though Nokia had the largest share of device market in the world, they had few publishers compared to Apple and Android. Over time, Android has managed to win the game to Apple and the others have disappeared. Both Apple and Android are very saturated markets and it's really hard to make money.

Regards
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: arnoldemu on 22:29, 20 July 17
I would be interested to know sales figures and profit from other larger platforms such as c64 or spectrum.

From my experience through Cronosoft and talking to others:

Amstrad would sell like 8 of each game.
Spectrum 50 of each game.
I don't know about c64. Maybe not many (because of crackers)??

I guess Orion Prime and R-Type sold significant numbers because there was hype built up, publicity over multiple websites and because of the unique packaging and materials. @Targhan (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=110), is this true?
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Joseman on 22:38, 20 July 17
I would be interested to know sales figures and profit from other larger platforms such as c64 or spectrum.

From my experience through Cronosoft and talking to others:

Amstrad would sell like 8 of each game.
Spectrum 50 of each game.
I don't know about c64. Maybe not many (because of crackers)??

I guess Orion Prime and R-Type sold significant numbers because there was hype built up, publicity over multiple websites and because of the unique packaging and materials. @Targhan (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=110), is this true?

I think that 4mhz had big sales numbers with "adios a la casta", "adios a la casta 2" & "El Tesoro de Cuauhtemoc", maybe they sold hundreds of copies.

As you say, R-type had a lot of sales, even they didn't have enough floppies!!

I don't think that Amstrad games only sell 8 games vs 50 on spectrum, i just don't believe that. Only on my cpc "friend circle" would sell more than 8!!

Even i will say more, games like current projects Pinball dreams & Street Fighter 2 (with proper packages) and possible future games (like SMB) or future 4mhz, cargo soft games will sell several hundreds of copies in days!!

Just my opinion!
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: roudoudou on 22:58, 20 July 17
Orion prime was pre-ordered, as far as i remember
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Carnivius on 23:00, 20 July 17

As you say, R-type had a lot of sales, even they didn't have enough floppies!!


Just popped into this topic at this point and haven't read any of it but this caught my eye.
Did they not run into any trouble from Irem for selling what is still their intellectual property?
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Dubliner on 23:15, 20 July 17
Where they did said that? twitter account?


Yep. David from his account.

I think that 4mhz had big sales numbers with "adios a la casta", "adios a la casta 2" & "El Tesoro de Cuauhtemoc", maybe they sold hundreds of copies.

Even i will say more, games like current projects Pinball dreams & Street Fighter 2 (with proper packages) and possible future games (like SMB) or future 4mhz, cargo soft games will sell several hundreds of copies in days!!

If i remember well, Cuauhtemoc sold 120 copies (quite impressive actually). Adios a la casta 1 & 2 sold less. Cyberchicken had numered copies and they sold a bit more than 100 in three years.

On the other hand, if you listen to Matranet, he is always complaining that the games doesn´t sell that well. Things like Justin or The Return of Traxtor have sold a couple dozens maybe.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Targhan on 23:42, 20 July 17

Quote
I guess Orion Prime and R-Type sold significant numbers because there was hype built up, publicity over multiple websites and because of the unique packaging and materials. @Targhan (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=110), is this true?


I guess yes, for all these reasons, but also because the game looked quite original.


The figures are known, but we sold 175 copies of the packaging. We could have sold much more, but we only did 2 sessions of pre-ordering, as we did the packaging and duplication by ourselves, it would have been too much time-consuming. If I make another game with a packaging, I would use a retro-company that would manage these two aspects.


And there are often people still asking for a packaged version.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 23:58, 20 July 17
Is this one the anonymous CPC developer thread?

Currently I don't have much time to spend on forums (real life has been very busy this year, I hope it'll get better eventually!), but my experience around here when I started a development thread it has always been positive, with some feedback and overall I would say it has always been quite motivating for me.

Then the games gets released and... things get cold really quick. When I mentioned this to Dubliner he said my games were everywhere (and I can only be grateful he's a great guy and we always get good coverage in RetroManiac mag), and I wonder if is just that the size of the active CPC community is what it is.

So @keith56 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1886); please don't think is just your games!

I'm not sure if I would measure success by looking at how many physical copies are sold. I always release the games as free download and the physical edition comes afterwards. I see it as a nice thing to have for people that like the games (could we say "fans"?). Anyway, if I was making these games for money or success... hah!  :laugh:

If things go well I may start another dev thread "soon". Please, don't give up if you like it.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 00:26, 21 July 17
People *love* games in development - updates, screenshots, etc.


But yeah, once released and played (with the amount of time most people have these days), and also the inevitable watch of the Xyphoe review, things do die down a lot.


Which is why the games mag and other things that revisit the games in a year are quite nice too!
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 01:40, 21 July 17
Well, since everybody said something interesting, my two cents  :)

In our particular case, developing DDLE was a fantastic experience. The support from the community was really good and lots of people got deeply involved. Actually, I would say that the adventure really was a collaborative effort and there is a little bit of everyone that was happy to help on it. Why did we have such an amount of support? I don´t really know, to be honest, but sometimes I think that a key aspect was the amount of info we gave about the development, with screenshots, concepts, periodic updates about the status of the project... we were also openly asking for feedback and help and this allowed a lot of people to step in too.  In summary, I think that developing the adventure "in public" (and I really mean developing it, not only showing our progress) helped a lot and made it to be a much better game. We are deeply grateful to all the people that collaborated.

That said, I am 100% sure that we would have finished the game even with zero feedback. Why? because I was already doing "games" back in my 13s-14s when nobody gave a dam about the Amstrad (1993-1994) and Internet did not exist (in my city). I never cared much about those things, creating a game is something you do just for the fun of it, right? If it is fun, you like it and you feel hopeful and happy, who is going to take that back from you? The greatness is in the journey  :)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: TMR on 02:17, 21 July 17
Amstrad would sell like 8 of each game.
Spectrum 50 of each game.
I don't know about c64. Maybe not many (because of crackers)??

The cracking doesn't have a serious effect on sales from what i've seen; cracked versions of new games usually don't have a download at the CSDb unless the author has already released it online (it didn't always work this way but there was a change a while back now) and i believe we shifted over a hundred copies of Edge Grinder on cartridge despite it being cracked three times and freely available for download well in advance of that release.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 09:42, 21 July 17
The cracking doesn't have a serious effect on sales from what i've seen; cracked versions of new games usually don't have a download at the CSDb unless the author has already released it online (it didn't always work this way but there was a change a while back now) and i believe we shifted over a hundred copies of Edge Grinder on cartridge despite it being cracked three times and freely available for download well in advance of that release.

I don't know numbers in general, but some recent C64 games have sold a bit over 200 units; that makes it a best seller I've been told. The game was released as free download before the physical edition (although with fewer features, it was the same game), so there's that too.

I don't believe in "buy the game if you want to play it", I think collector editions with some extra value is the way to go. But that's my opinion, anyway :)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: arnoldemu on 10:01, 21 July 17
For Stranded on the C64 I didn't release it on-line at all. It was available to buy from Cronosoft for £4. It was a simple game, I guess nobody liked it because it barely sold at all from the numbers reported me. Then it was cracked and that was downloaded much more than any sales and that got more publicity than my version.

It was my first ever game on C64, in fact my first ever coding on c64, but after that I am bitter and I never want to code on C64 again.

The CPC games I sold through Cronosoft, didn't sell well, maybe people thought they were a bit rubbish. On some it was 20, on others less. Eventually I released them on-line in full. It didn't put me off though, because I like the CPC more than other platforms.

Talking to Bob Smith who did lots of games through Cronosoft, he was selling like 30 or 40 of each and they kept on selling.

Maybe they all sold slowly because lack of visibility.

I can understand why Orion Prime, R-Type etc sold better, because they are much better games, with better presentation, design and experience. I guess they interested people a lot more.

I'm pleased to hear that games have sold well on other platforms too.

I keep programming for CPC because I love it :)

EDIT: All of this experience from sales comes from about 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: TMR on 10:47, 21 July 17
I can understand why Orion Prime, R-Type etc sold better, because they are much better games, with better presentation, design and experience. I guess they interested people a lot more.

Being able to play the games before purchasing will certainly have contributed to their success as well, if you're faced with just a shop front and some still screens or video it's not the same as getting your hands dirty and feeling how a the controls respond but nobody releases demo versions any more...

Over on the Atari 8-bit there are some folks so paranoid about piracy (because it used to be one of the worst platforms for it back in the day, more so than the C64) that they don't trust their customers at all to the point of refusing to sell downloadable images and, if they can be persuaded to trust someone like me as a games reviewer in the first place, will only send watermarked cartridge images. i don't know how well their games sell... in fact i don't even know if they sell because the publishers are so guarded and the response from the community to that level of mistrust hasn't exactly been friendly.

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 11:52, 21 July 17
Not everybody is "Batman Group" as in... I'm not at that technical level and I can't really make huge games (time!). Besides I prefer to develop my own IP, and that's not "R-Type" famous, of course.

I might be wrong, but I still think that there may be some room for fun mid-size games, perhaps every now and then with some risky innovative gameplay that people may not like (hah). I'd love if the CPC community was more visible in YT, podcasts, and things like that; but it's OK.

EDIT: I asked Poly Play and so far (counting all versions, cassette & disc), 55 copies of Golden Tail and 45 of Magica; which means he hasn't covered costs yet.

I don't know what to expect, if those numbers are good or not. It is still selling and as new games are released there's a chance of more orders.

Perhaps not too promising for the future. I would totally understand if Poly Play doesn't want to edit more CPC games  :(
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Carnivius on 14:32, 21 July 17
I don't buy physical game software.  Not on my new systems and not on my old.  I've no interest in boxes and disks/cassettes and stuff (wouldn't mind a poster for the wall now and then but that's different) but I have happily paid for the digital versions though including those for the C64 (which is not a system I even particularly like playing games on) even just to support the developers.
I've paid about $3 a time for C64 games by RGCD.DEV (https://rgcddev.itch.io/) and Psytronik Software (https://psytronik.itch.io/) through itch.io (https://itch.io/) which is a great site for buying games for all sorts of computers.

I don't know if your games would be more or less popular if the digital version actually cost a few bucks rather than free but you'd certainly get more money out of folk like me who like to support 8 bit game development but don't want the 'clutter' of boxes and such.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 15:32, 21 July 17
I don't know if your games would be more or less popular if the digital version actually cost a few bucks rather than free but you'd certainly get more money out of folk like me who like to support 8 bit game development but don't want the 'clutter' of boxes and such.

Well, is not about the money (I waived my royalties); I think it is great to have nice physical releases for the CPC in 2017.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: keith56 on 16:29, 21 July 17
I'm back... to cause more trouble! - hopefully not eh?
Ok, here's my points.
1. I don't want to make any money out of CPC dev - it's not why I'm doing it, and I would be more concerned about it causing me 'tax problems' that any possible financial benefit.
2. Don't want to play my game? fine - I've got no problem with that - I wanted to make something weird crazy and possibly offensive - so I completely understand if it's not your thing.
3. I don't care if the game is physically released or not - if you want to buy physicaly copies - go ahead, if you don't - whatever

all I care about is...

4. spread the word about my game!
This isn't 1990 anymore - "Build it and they will come" is long gone... and using "Suggest a site" on yahoo don't do squat now!
If you like my game, or even if you don't care about it and want to see me keep making them to keep the CPC community alive, here's what I need... (and what I think other devs need)
Tweet about it - link it, mention it on other sites, bump my posts on this site - make youtube videos - post on facebook... whatever YOU can do to promote my game.

I can make a CPC game, I can do the code, the sound, the graphics, I'll test it - and I'll do it for free.
I'l even make and host the website, and do my best to promote it...

I know a lot of people Liked the "EP2 announcement" but likes don't bump threads, so two days after my announcement, it was gone from the front page, and anyone coming here after that easily miss it - and that sucked.

What sucked even more, is that I posted in the old EP1 thread that I'd do a lets play (I've already spend 2 hours recording the gameplay footage - cos I *TOTALLY* have 2+ hours to spare - what with nearly 100 cartoon frames, a bunch of music, and a load of code and testing left to do before I can finish the new game) (some sarcasm included)
I came on the NEXT MORNING - and I struggled to find my own thread, it wasn't in the 'recent posts' (because of course, no one had replied!) so I had to dig in to the games thread to find it - I mean, If I hadn't known where to look for it... I couldn't have found it.

But seriously, If HALF the people who replied in my "How big is your memory" or "Is 64k support important?" thread had posted something in the EP2 thread, I'd have been quite happy...
People seem quite happy to talk about their own stuff, or suggest you keep supporting 64k systems (It's taken WEEKS of coding), but don't seem to enthusiastic to type a quick "great, thanks for programming this!" when you actually do the work and release it.

if you like my game... or you don't like my game, but like that I'm developing CPC games  PLEASE talk about it, here, twitter, facebook or wherever...
If you're liking my game, and not doing anything... I'd rather you F--King hate it, and are so mad about how bad or offensive it is, you go to twitter to compain about how sh-t it is, and try to get all your angry friends protesting against it on youtube, or demand the AVGN reviews it... Cos if no one's talking about it, it might as well not exist - and as far as google is concerned - it wont - so the three people in the world who may actually like playing it will never be able to find it.







Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: CraigsBar on 16:43, 21 July 17
I'm back... to cause more trouble! - hopefully not eh?
Ok, here's my points.
1. I don't want to make any money out of CPC dev - it's not why I'm doing it, and I would be more concerned about it causing me 'tax problems' that any possible financial benefit.
2. Don't want to play my game? fine - I've got no problem with that - I wanted to make something weird crazy and possibly offensive - so I completely understand if it's not your thing.
3. I don't care if the game is physically released or not - if you want to buy physicaly copies - go ahead, if you don't - whatever

all I care about is...

4. spread the word about my game!
This isn't 1990 anymore - "Build it and they will come" is long gone... and using "Suggest a site" on yahoo don't do squat now!
If you like my game, or even if you don't care about it and want to see me keep making them to keep the CPC community alive, here's what I need... (and what I think other devs need)
Tweet about it - link it, mention it on other sites, bump my posts on this site - make youtube videos - post on facebook... whatever YOU can do to promote my game.

I can make a CPC game, I can do the code, the sound, the graphics, I'll test it - and I'll do it for free.
I'l even make and host the website, and do my best to promote it...

I know a lot of people Liked the "EP2 announcement" but likes don't bump threads, so two days after my announcement, it was gone from the front page, and anyone coming here after that easily miss it - and that sucked.

What sucked even more, is that I posted in the old EP1 thread that I'd do a lets play (I've already spend 2 hours recording the gameplay footage - cos I *TOTALLY* have 2+ hours to spare - what with nearly 100 cartoon frames, a bunch of music, and a load of code and testing left to do before I can finish the new game) (some sarcasm included)
I came on the NEXT MORNING - and I struggled to find my own thread, it wasn't in the 'recent posts' (because of course, no one had replied!) so I had to dig in to the games thread to find it - I mean, If I hadn't known where to look for it... I couldn't have found it.

But seriously, If HALF the people who replied in my "How big is your memory" or "Is 64k support important?" thread had posted something in the EP2 thread, I'd have been quite happy...
People seem quite happy to talk about their own stuff, or suggest you keep supporting 64k systems (It's taken WEEKS of coding), but don't seem to enthusiastic to type a quick "great, thanks for programming this!" when you actually do the work and release it.

if you like my game... or you don't like my game, but like that I'm developing CPC games  PLEASE talk about it, here, twitter, facebook or wherever...
If you're liking my game, and not doing anything... I'd rather you F--King hate it, and are so mad about how bad or offensive it is, you go to twitter to compain about how sh-t it is, and try to get all your angry friends protesting against it on youtube, or demand the AVGN reviews it... Cos if no one's talking about it, it might as well not exist - and as far as google is concerned - it wont - so the three people in the world who may actually like playing it will never be able to find it.
Now I have episode 1 running beautifully on my m4 is is getting referenced and screenshot published in the local amiga fb group lol. I will convert them from their c64 loyalties. As for hating the dark humour? Not a hope, that is half the fun.

Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 16:52, 21 July 17
I often forget that there are other CPC communities (Spain, France, Germany I guess); you could also try to post there or see if someone posted information about your game. I post on the Spanish one from time to time, but I must confess I don't know anything about the others.

I'm sure we all could do more to promote new CPC games.

Btw, people read the forum, isn't it? Is not just the front page... @Gryzor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1)?
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 16:56, 21 July 17
Nope, traffic is healthy all around...

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 17:24, 21 July 17
This isn't 1990 anymore - "Build it and they will come" is long gone... and using "Suggest a site" on yahoo don't do squat now!
If you like my game, or even if you don't care about it and want to see me keep making them to keep the CPC community alive, here's what I need... (and what I think other devs need)
Tweet about it - link it, mention it on other sites, bump my posts on this site - make youtube videos - post on facebook... whatever YOU can do to promote my game.
...
I came on the NEXT MORNING - and I struggled to find my own thread, it wasn't in the 'recent posts' (because of course, no one had replied!) so I had to dig in to the games thread to find it - I mean, If I hadn't known where to look for it... I couldn't have found it.
...
if you like my game... or you don't like my game, but like that I'm developing CPC games  PLEASE talk about it, here, twitter, facebook or wherever...

This is what's wrong with the Internet. Things are just moving way too fast. WAY too fast. Especially for a retrocomputer community.

This is exactly why I dream about the revival of diskmags. Because each issue of a diskmag is a static creation. It doesn't change. You can read it whenever you have the time, in your own cosy relaxing pace. Even 6 months after its release, it'll sit there waiting for you, and you can catch up what you've been missing. No website offers this.

Each issue containing in-depth cosy relaxing reviews of new games (i.e. games since last issue). Even has a copy of the game on the diskmag itself so you don't have to go out and find it. Maybe even comes with a built-in emulator, who knows.

I often think about creating such a diskmag every now and then, but then remember that I don't have any time to do so. Still.... if it could be a blu-ray discmag, then I already have the engine. And it could contain videos too then. And readers could choose whether to subscribe to a physical disc by mail, or simply download an ISO to burn themselves, or simply play the ISO with a software player like VLC.

I think this is what we need. A good old fashioned diskmag to go hand in hand with our good old fashioned retrogames (and other retro stuff).
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 19:04, 21 July 17
Btw, people read the forum, isn't it? Is not just the front page... @Gryzor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1)?


I usually come straight into the UNREAD section of the forum, skipping everything else.


So for me, it's easy for threads to disappear when other people don't post in them.


As for diskmags, I quite like the Commodore Free magazine that a guy does, for Commodore machines obviously. It's available in multiple formats (I usually do HTML), but within each format, there is a set of content following a general template for that issue.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 19:20, 21 July 17
same

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Joseman on 19:55, 21 July 17
Just popped into this topic at this point and haven't read any of it but this caught my eye.
Did they not run into any trouble from Irem for selling what is still their intellectual property?

I don't think so

Is Irem protecting his IP's actually?
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 22:08, 21 July 17
Talking about respected games , I am trying to find that smart little vector style horizontal shooter that came out last year. Since my last laptop died I am having to dig out all my fav CPC games . Anyone recall what it was called?
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 22:15, 21 July 17
Btw, Rich I have just transfered for R-Type . Let me know if there is any prob. Man that is so easy to do .
That is what I would much rather doing , It is so easy to transfer . And If I am impressed by programmers efforts , I would be just as happy to donate a random amount ,whenever . Then I feel it is respecting someones efforts rather than the actual production.


I think it would be useful to bring about Profile pages ,of peoples work . Someone else already mentioned it . I think it is a sound idea tbh.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 22:29, 21 July 17
I usually come straight into the UNREAD section of the forum, skipping everything else.
So for me, it's easy for threads to disappear when other people don't post in them.

Same for me. I don't know about anyone else, but for me I just don't have the time to browse a whole lot, so I end up only looking at the unread section.

If I had a diskmag however, I would set aside time for it, just like I do when watching a movie.

As for diskmags, I quite like the Commodore Free magazine that a guy does, for Commodore machines obviously. It's available in multiple formats (I usually do HTML), but within each format, there is a set of content following a general template for that issue.

I did not know about this one. But looking at it, I wouldn't qualify it as a diskmag. It's a magazine - and they do also have their place. But it's not a diskmag.

To qualify as a diskmag certain aspects has to be present, most importantly cosy background music, and a general retrostyled layout rather than a modern one. Preferably also bright text on a dark background rather than black text on a white background.

A website, PDF or ePub file usually doesn't come with these attributes - although they're all able to.
Personally, I would also prefer that a diskmag is an offline thing. I.e. one that you download, but don't need to be online in order to read.

But I've brought up the topic of diskmags a few times for the past many many years now, and it's quite clear that I'm the only one who's really missing them.  :)

Once I've managed to complete my currently million ongoing projects, I might do a poll here asking how many is interested in participating in the creation of a new CPC diskmag, since I continue being convinced that we need one.  :)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Dubliner on 22:43, 21 July 17
Talking about respected games , I am trying to find that smart little vector style horizontal shooter that came out last year. Since my last laptop died I am having to dig out all my fav CPC games . Anyone recall what it was called?

Do you mean Vector Vaults? http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/vector-vault-released-in-september-2016/

What i did to try to keep up with the forum is adding the RSS Feed to feedly so at least i can have a quick look and then save for later long and/or interesting posts. It's a shame that the feed actually misses some posts from time to time.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: arnoldemu on 22:45, 21 July 17
Talking about respected games , I am trying to find that smart little vector style horizontal shooter that came out last year. Since my last laptop died I am having to dig out all my fav CPC games . Anyone recall what it was called?
vector vaults I think.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: arnoldemu on 22:47, 21 July 17
same here. I look at the unread threads.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 22:52, 21 July 17
Vector Vaults ,that was it. thanks
by
Alberto ;Rodrigez Martinez
I hope he is still developing for the machine ,I'd chuck him some dough right now. Love this game , And think it could be developed futher.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: ivarf on 12:38, 22 July 17
I'm back... to cause more trouble! - hopefully not eh?
Ok, here's my points.
1. I don't want to make any money out of CPC dev - it's not why I'm doing it, and I would be more concerned about it causing me 'tax problems' that any possible financial benefit.
2. Don't want to play my game? fine - I've got no problem with that - I wanted to make something weird crazy and possibly offensive - so I completely understand if it's not your thing.
3. I don't care if the game is physically released or not - if you want to buy physicaly copies - go ahead, if you don't - whatever

all I care about is...

4. spread the word about my game!
This isn't 1990 anymore - "Build it and they will come" is long gone... and using "Suggest a site" on yahoo don't do squat now!
If you like my game, or even if you don't care about it and want to see me keep making them to keep the CPC community alive, here's what I need... (and what I think other devs need)
Tweet about it - link it, mention it on other sites, bump my posts on this site - make youtube videos - post on facebook... whatever YOU can do to promote my game.

I can make a CPC game, I can do the code, the sound, the graphics, I'll test it - and I'll do it for free.
I'l even make and host the website, and do my best to promote it...

I know a lot of people Liked the "EP2 announcement" but likes don't bump threads, so two days after my announcement, it was gone from the front page, and anyone coming here after that easily miss it - and that sucked.

What sucked even more, is that I posted in the old EP1 thread that I'd do a lets play (I've already spend 2 hours recording the gameplay footage - cos I *TOTALLY* have 2+ hours to spare - what with nearly 100 cartoon frames, a bunch of music, and a load of code and testing left to do before I can finish the new game) (some sarcasm included)
I came on the NEXT MORNING - and I struggled to find my own thread, it wasn't in the 'recent posts' (because of course, no one had replied!) so I had to dig in to the games thread to find it - I mean, If I hadn't known where to look for it... I couldn't have found it.

But seriously, If HALF the people who replied in my "How big is your memory" or "Is 64k support important?" thread had posted something in the EP2 thread, I'd have been quite happy...
People seem quite happy to talk about their own stuff, or suggest you keep supporting 64k systems (It's taken WEEKS of coding), but don't seem to enthusiastic to type a quick "great, thanks for programming this!" when you actually do the work and release it.

if you like my game... or you don't like my game, but like that I'm developing CPC games  PLEASE talk about it, here, twitter, facebook or wherever...
If you're liking my game, and not doing anything... I'd rather you F--King hate it, and are so mad about how bad or offensive it is, you go to twitter to compain about how sh-t it is, and try to get all your angry friends protesting against it on youtube, or demand the AVGN reviews it... Cos if no one's talking about it, it might as well not exist - and as far as google is concerned - it wont - so the three people in the world who may actually like playing it will never be able to find it.


Thank you for this post. I have used to show Youtube-videos of your game to my 8 year old son just to show what my old Amstrad can do. He is very impressed and so am I too. Will try to get it on transfered to tape or disc soon. I am one of those that prefer to pay for a real copy if possible.

I will do as you suggest, post about it in other retroforums and Facebook. Your work is highly appreciated and pushes the hardware well. Extremly impressive. You must be one of the very few that can pull this off as your first game on the system.


Once again, THANK YOU!


I am sure many here feel the same of your game.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: 6128 on 12:55, 22 July 17
I think that 4mhz had big sales numbers with "adios a la casta", "adios a la casta 2" & "El Tesoro de Cuauhtemoc", maybe they sold hundreds of copies.

As you say, R-type had a lot of sales, even they didn't have enough floppies!!

I don't think that Amstrad games only sell 8 games vs 50 on spectrum, i just don't believe that. Only on my cpc "friend circle" would sell more than 8!!

Even i will say more, games like current projects Pinball dreams & Street Fighter 2 (with proper packages) and possible future games (like SMB) or future 4mhz, cargo soft games will sell several hundreds of copies in days!!

Just my opinion!

50 Amstrad games sold is a success today. 100 games is a megahit of sales.
It does not make much sense to make games for Amstrad with a commercial purpose. There is not enough market. Covering production costs is enough.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Shining on 14:43, 22 July 17

Perhaps using such a license would be solve the problem (with a little bit of  ;) ):

Quote
The Star And Thank Author License (SATA)


Copyright (c) 2016-2017 DIYgod(i@html.love)


Project Url: https://github.com/DIYgod/DPlayer


Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:


The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
all copies or substantial portions of the Software.


And wait, the most important, you shall star/+1/like the project(s) in project url
section above first, and then thank the author(s) in Copyright section.


Here are some suggested ways:


 - Email the authors a thank-you letter, and make friends with him/her/them.
 - Report bugs or issues.
 - Tell friends what a wonderful project this is.
 - And, sure, you can just express thanks in your mind without telling the world.


Contributors of this project by forking have the option to add his/her name and
forked project url at copyright and project url sections, but shall not delete
or modify anything else in these two sections.


THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS INTHE SOFTWARE.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: keith56 on 16:31, 22 July 17
Thank you for this post. I have used to show Youtube-videos of your game to my 8 year old son just to show what my old Amstrad can do. He is very impressed and so am I too. Will try to get it on transfered to tape or disc soon. I am one of those that prefer to pay for a real copy if possible.

Really appretiate your comment, however, please bear in mind my game is not suitable for young children! play away, but don't let your 8 year old at it.

Chibi akumas contains a lot of bad language, and the main character is intentionally an extremely bad role-model!

that said, enjoy the game yourself! but let your 8 year old play that new dizzy game on the spectrum instead!
http://www.vintageisthenewold.com/crystal-kingdom-dizzy-2017/ (http://www.vintageisthenewold.com/crystal-kingdom-dizzy-2017/)

just re-iterating what I said before, I just tried to find a link to this game - I went on duck duck go, and did a search for 'new dizzy game' and even 'new russian dizzy game' (it is russian isn't it?) and could not find it... I had to search for the name of the rom itself... just to say, it's not just my free game or the CPC that needs peoples support!
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: keith56 on 16:35, 22 July 17
Perhaps using such a license would be solve the problem (with a little bit of  ;) ):

Well the current EULA I included with all the releases  has the following clause in it: (You DID read the EULA... didn't you?)...

6. Mandatory Enjoyment
By Playing this game , you agree that this is the best game of all time, the author is awesome, that you will sell your soul to Akuma Chibiko, and that these shrink wrap licences that you are forced to agree to (and the authors fully know you will not try to read) are bullsh-t that quite blatantly cannot be legally enforced in a court of law anyway - and that they would be abolished if the legal system wasn't so corrupt and biased in favour of corporations against individuals.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Rhino on 20:56, 22 July 17
50 Amstrad games sold is a success today. 100 games is a megahit of sales.
It does not make much sense to make games for Amstrad with a commercial purpose. There is not enough market. Covering production costs is enough.

Does anyone think that it is possible to make money (100k or more) developing for retro computers?
Although they are multiplatform developments?
Maybe this is the real challenge :)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 21:29, 22 July 17
Does anyone think that it is possible to make money (100k or more) developing for retro computers?
Although they are multiplatform developments?
Maybe this is the real challenge :)

I don't think it's possible to make that kind of money on retrogame development.
But I definitely think it's possible to make more money targeting the niche retro platforms than the modern platforms.
The modern platforms are drowning in games, and the players are youngsters who don't wanna pay anything.
But the retro platforms have a different group of users, older people who is more willing (and can better afford) to pay a small amount for a game, and I also think more of us would be willing.

I admit I haven't bought any newer CPC game myself, but that's been because I've had the wrong mindset. I've been thinking that I don't need/want a physical copy.
But I have donated to developer who's done games that I like.

I would suggest a different approach for the future: Everyone should donate something. Just a small amount. 1 euro would be fine. 10 euro if you really enjoy the game.
I'm sure everyone would be willing to pay a single euro for a new CPC game. It's petty cash to everyone. But to the developer it'll be a great motivator to create the next game.
So even if you don't like the game he just released, donate anyway. He's an active developer, and his next game may be one that you'll like.

All we need is some kind of system everyone can figure out how to use....  I'm not sure it'll be enough to simply write a paypal address.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: andycadley on 21:36, 22 July 17
With a really successful title, ignoring costs I reckon you could maybe get around €100. The idea of actually making a living off it is laughable. You can probably make more by filming YouTube videos of old games with ads on them. You can certainly do better by making one of those phone games that continually sell micro payment packages of coins and boosts of some sort.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: andycadley on 21:41, 22 July 17
@mr_Lou isn't that the point of sites like Patreon? Although I still think if people are worried about money they're on the wrong track.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 21:49, 22 July 17
@mr_Lou isn't that the point of sites like Patreon? Although I still think if people are worried about money they're on the wrong track.

I didn't know about Patreon. Just took a look, and yes, I suppose that could do it.
But it'll only work if everyone thinks it's a good idea of course.
I suspect most would prefer the CPC community had its own system. Could be something simple as a site to refer to, on which the basic idea is explained: "Donate 1 euro to keep devs motivated".
Each dev would have a page that would list their donations.

Anyway, just my thoughts. Yet another project for someone to make.
Patreon could work. But a site of our own would make things more grouped together I suppose.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Rhino on 22:51, 22 July 17
With a really successful title, ignoring costs I reckon you could maybe get around €100. The idea of actually making a living off it is laughable. You can probably make more by filming YouTube videos of old games with ads on them. You can certainly do better by making one of those phone games that continually sell micro payment packages of coins and boosts of some sort.

I've never thought about making money with retro development, but it's really an absolute impossibility? As mr_lou said, if we add the retro community of all platforms, there are tens of thousands of potential buyers with high purchasing power. Of course, if someone sets this goal, he should apply a business approach and develop cross-platform.

Recently there was news of a development team that seems to have this goal:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/nogalious-(new-game-in-the-oven)/10/

As they say in the RetroManiac's interview: "My goal is to turn it into a profitable business that will become the new Spanish referent, in the 'Dinamic' of the moment." ...
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 23:01, 22 July 17
You have to make it easy for people to show there appreciation , myself  I am put off by rigmarole , and If something is in front of me and doesn't involve too much fannying around (with regard to this issue)I'll make the effort to click and pay. The system with paypal which I paid For R-type ,was painless. I personally am not too fussed about getting materials to hold. So I am doing it more to support the efforts. If someone inspires me I don't mind randomly forwarding a few quid here and there , It is not going to be missed particularly. And I do not feel People are undeserving of it(Double Negative sorry) . I enjoy the nostalgia from the machine . And If supporting peoples efforts keeps bringing about a better respect for this machine then I'll give when I can.
 I really feel most of the guys are not fussed about making any money anyway. I just think it is at least a way of receiving some credit. For a Labour of Love
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Joseman on 23:11, 22 July 17
Does anyone think that it is possible to make money (100k or more) developing for retro computers?
Although they are multiplatform developments?
Maybe this is the real challenge :)

make SMB and I will pay 100k or more for it!! (only one condition: i need to win the "primitiva" here in spain to have this amount of money, BUT if i win, i'll pay!!!)





Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: tjohnson on 23:55, 22 July 17

Really appretiate your comment, however, please bear in mind my game is not suitable for young children! play away, but don't let your 8 year old at it.

Chibi akumas contains a lot of bad language, and the main character is intentionally an extremely bad role-model!

that said, enjoy the game yourself! but let your 8 year old play that new dizzy game on the spectrum instead!
http://www.vintageisthenewold.com/crystal-kingdom-dizzy-2017/ (http://www.vintageisthenewold.com/crystal-kingdom-dizzy-2017/)

just re-iterating what I said before, I just tried to find a link to this game - I went on duck duck go, and did a search for 'new dizzy game' and even 'new russian dizzy game' (it is russian isn't it?) and could not find it... I had to search for the name of the rom itself... just to say, it's not just my free game or the CPC that needs peoples support!


Best not show my 7 year old then!  I did show your game to my 11 year old son and he didn't show a great deal of interest but then he hasn't shown any interest in retrogaming, normally groans about this ancient stuff again, he's more interested in the multi billion machine called Minecraft and watching inane videos of the same on YouTube.  I will have another go at showing him, maybe for your next build you could do a censored version which you can select in the options, safe for your mum and kids option as it were, or perhaps if memory is an issue a separate disk set.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Carnivius on 00:48, 23 July 17
I don't think it's possible to make that kind of money on retrogame development.
But I definitely think it's possible to make more money targeting the niche retro platforms than the modern platforms.
The modern platforms are drowning in games, and the players are youngsters who don't wanna pay anything.
But the retro platforms have a different group of users, older people who is more willing (and can better afford) to pay a small amount for a game, and I also think more of us would be willing.

I admit I haven't bought any newer CPC game myself, but that's been because I've had the wrong mindset. I've been thinking that I don't need/want a physical copy.
But I have donated to developer who's done games that I like.

I would suggest a different approach for the future: Everyone should donate something. Just a small amount. 1 euro would be fine. 10 euro if you really enjoy the game.
I'm sure everyone would be willing to pay a single euro for a new CPC game. It's petty cash to everyone. But to the developer it'll be a great motivator to create the next game.
So even if you don't like the game he just released, donate anyway. He's an active developer, and his next game may be one that you'll like.

All we need is some kind of system everyone can figure out how to use....  I'm not sure it'll be enough to simply write a paypal address.

Is kinda what my post a couple pages ago was pretty much saying too. :P
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/coding-a-cpc-game-motivation-and-feedback/msg146986/#msg146986 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/coding-a-cpc-game-motivation-and-feedback/msg146986/#msg146986)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: keith56 on 06:18, 23 July 17
@mr_Lou isn't that the point of sites like Patreon? Although I still think if people are worried about money they're on the wrong track.

Yes, my understanding of patreon is that it allow people to make regular small payments to content creators.

But from my point of view, I don't want to make any money programming CPC games... I get paid to program during my day job, and often the results are unused, ignored, or unfinished... I'm programming for the CPC to try to make something 'unique' of my own for the system I learned development on,  and in the hope others may enjoy it...

It's the fact no one was replying to my thread (helping with the promotion), or visiting my website (word of mouth bringing new users) that I was frustrated with - not a lack of donations (which I never asked for).
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 07:03, 23 July 17
But from my point of view, I don't want to make any money programming CPC games...
...
It's the fact no one was replying to my thread (helping with the promotion), or visiting my website (word of mouth bringing new users) that I was frustrated with - not a lack of donations (which I never asked for).

I understand that.
But earning money doing CPC development would still be a good motivator, wouldn't it? At least I know it would for other devs.

I wouldn't personally reply to a thread about a new release, if the game didn't interest me. (And I admit that I'm rather picky). But I would probably still donate a bit, if there was an easy-to-use system for it.
Then, when donating, it should auto-post on Facebook or Twitter something like "I just donated to <game-project>". Dunno if that's possible.

It looks like Patreon is about paying a monthly fee, while i'm more interested in supporting individual projects.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 07:51, 23 July 17
Ok.... I can't help getting ideas.
This probably either belongs in a thread of its own, or else should be put in another thread that already discussed this not so long ago (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/cpc-games-demos-developers-fund), but here it is for now:

Someone should make a website.
This website could be called "CPC-foundation" for example.
Gamers and supporters subscribe to it; pays a monthly fee.
Game-devs sign up (free), creates an account.
When game-devs release a new game, they submit it to the site.
When a game is submitted to the site, all subscribers are mailed about it. (If the site has a Facebook page and/or Twitter, then it's also posted there of course).
This mail notification makes sure that everyone who's interested in new CPC releases are informed about new releases.
When informed about a new release, subscribers must download and judge the game. This is what a subscription obligates. (Online emulation would also be nice). Then they vote on it. (It is not allowed to cast a vote based on a video. You must try out the game).
The vote will serve as an overall visual grade on the site, but will also determine how much money the dev will receive. Everyone has one month to vote.
When a subscriber votes, he gets a chance to post his vote to his Facebook and/or Twitter etc etc. "I just voted <game project> a 10!"

Say everyone pays a single euro each month.
100 subscribers = 100 euro each month
Only one game-project can processed for each months payment. Sometimes there may be a queue (like when games from CPCRetroDev are released), and sometimes there may be room for 2 or more games to be processed and payed a month.
So you can max earn 100 euro - IF all 100 subscribers voted 10 for your game (which will never happen).
Someone voting 5 means you'll only get half a euro from that person.

10-liner BASIC vs 4-year long projects? Doesn't matter in this regard. I'm pretty sure the 4-year project will receive more 10s than the BASIC one, but the period of time spent to make the project is irrelevant in this context.

Hopefully a site like that would create a little hype within the retrogame community, which would automatically result in more exposure for everyone.

As far as I can see a site like this would make sure everyone would get some publicity. And everyone would be more motivated. Everyone can afford participating.
"All" we need, is for someone to make the site. Or maybe the functionality could be added to an existing site?

What did I miss?
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 11:00, 23 July 17
This is what is needed ^^. whether it has those parameters who knows , but organisation could help make a cottage industry. And it may just start small and very trivial , but it is better that way, to fine tune it.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 11:05, 23 July 17
One thing I don't like , is people having to feel commited to paying something every (Week/Month etc) If people want to add,I would like to do it anonymously generally. But I understand some might like to feel they get some recognition.And I think keeping it within the Wiki would help people be in touch with coders, and not feel they are paying money to some shyster. 
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 11:23, 23 July 17
One thing I don't like , is people having to feel commited to paying something every (Week/Month etc) If people want to add,I would like to do it anonymously generally. But I understand some might like to feel they get some recognition.And I think keeping it within the Wiki would help people be in touch with coders, and not feel they are paying money to some shyster.

Everything should be transparent.
It's no different than any other club. And that's essentially what this would be: A club of some sort.
Members pay a members fee. A small one, but still.
In this case, all of the money goes to the developers.
Say there are 100 members. Each pays 1 euro each month. (Or 12 euro a year to simplify things).
So first month, there's 100 euro available.
Then a game is submitted.
As per club rules, all members must now check out this game, and give it a vote. (If you don't wanna do this, the club isn't for you. This is a club is for CPC game enthusiasts).
Say all members give this game a 5. This means the game-dev gets payed 50 euro.
There is now 50 euro left.
Wait till next month. Each member again pays a euro. There is now 150 euro available.
Next game is submitted and evaluated. Members vote to pay game-dev 25 euro.
There is now 125 euro left. That is more than a euro per member. Therefor the next game in the queue can be evaluated now too.
As long as there is 1 euro per member in the club-wallet, a game can be evaluted.

If you don't wanna pay, fair enough, then you just can't participate in the votes that release the money for the game-dev.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 11:34, 23 July 17
Out of curiosity, who would be really interested in money to keep doing CPC games?

I may continue making games for free, personally I think it's shame if physical editions go away, but I guess that's OK. If current community of CPC users is small or people don't like physical editions (all for valid reasons, not saying everybody should buy), then that's where we are at.

We are living a sweet time for the CPC, let's enjoy it while it lasts!
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 11:46, 23 July 17
Out of curiosity, who would be really interested in money to keep doing CPC games?

I'm not sure how many would consider e.g. 50 euro as "making money" when it comes down to it.
But wouldn't it make it a bit more interesting when there's a potential prize waiting? Of course. Why else would so many devs participate in the CPCRetroDev competition.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 11:51, 23 July 17
Why else would so many devs participate in the CPCRetroDev competition.

That might be assuming a bit too much, I don't know. We would need to ask the people submitting the games.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 11:57, 23 July 17
That might be assuming a bit too much, I don't know. We would need to ask the people submitting the games.

In any case, having a page like this would be pretty much the same.
It's a group of CPC enthusiasts who'd focus on game-development. Focus on rewarding and giving publicity.
The only difference I see is that this would be an ongoing thing with much lower prizes, but in return always some kind of prize.
Making a quick BASIC game would earn you a few euros. Making a 4-year long project would make you more.

Anyway, the idea has been shared. Either someone picks it up, or they don't. I can live without it, and if it becomes a reality I'd definitely participate. Because I'd love to see more games for the CPC.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: andycadley on 12:04, 23 July 17

I'm not sure how many would consider e.g. 50 euro as "making money" when it comes down to it.
But wouldn't it make it a bit more interesting when there's a potential prize waiting? Of course. Why else would so many devs participate in the CPCRetroDev competition.
YMMV, from my point of view it's a hassle filling out tax forms for essentially no real benefit. If anything it disincentivizes development.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 12:08, 23 July 17
Are gifts taxable?Out of interest
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: andycadley on 12:18, 23 July 17
Gifts, probably not, but I'm not sure you could claim that a gift rather than payment for work done.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Rhino on 12:29, 23 July 17
I found an example of simple retro game making over $100k. So, yes, it is possible to make these amounts of money with a retro development.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stirringdragongames/unknown-realm-an-8bit-rpg-for-pc-and-commodore-64

I think some of the keys to its success may be:

- They have managed to present an attractive project for many people.
- They have made it very visible.
- They have focused on a large multiplatform market (PC + C64) and very lucrative in cartridges luxury editions.
- They have given multiple purchase options.
- And lastly, they have probably been very lucky.

The biggest retro market is USA, and the most extended 8-bit machines there were the C64 and NES, if I'm not mistaken. Collectors of both systems are accustomed to paying large quantities per cartridges, which have much greater profit margin than tapes or discs.

A CPC lover who wants to make real money probably has to make the games compatible with CPC, C64, NES and PC. In addition, he could add other systems like Spectrum, or MSX, but I do not think that would increase revenue too much.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Rhino on 12:30, 23 July 17
make SMB and I will pay 100k or more for it!! (only one condition: i need to win the "primitiva" here in spain to have this amount of money, BUT if i win, i'll pay!!!)

hehe, OK, I agree.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 12:36, 23 July 17
The biggest retro market is USA, and the most extended 8-bit machines there were the C64 and NES, if I'm not mistaken. Collectors of both systems are accustomed to paying large quantities per cartridges, which have much greater profit margin than tapes or discs.

The $49 pledge is the first one that includes a "ziplock" bag edition. I was told off by one guy because he felt Poly Play shipping costs where "a rip off", and you get all the goodies for way less than $49...

You're right that the community size matters here. Also luck, but good C64 games seem to sell well (easily in the 100 units range); and people don't seem to mind prices too much. Oh, well... some people may, but if there are enough users there's always a chance you may cover costs.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: keith56 on 12:42, 23 July 17
YMMV, from my point of view it's a hassle filling out tax forms for essentially no real benefit. If anything it disincentivizes development.

andycadley just hit the nail on the head for me... if there is a 1 in a million chance I'm going to end up with tax problems... the whole thing is not worth it. unless you think I can earn so much I can hire an expert accountant in UK & Japan tax law...

If you want to help my game financially, then someone can collect all the donations together, and pay for google adwords, or sponsored tweets to promote the game... but please don't give it to me.

It's word of mouth promotion I'm after, not cash returns - seriously, just retweet the release of my game/ like my youtube video, make a post about my game on some forum somewhere if you like it... that's all I want, not paypal coming to me demanding I validate my bank account because I've started getting random money from people.

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: andycadley on 12:47, 23 July 17

I found an example of simple retro game making over $100k. So, yes, it is possible to make these amounts of money with a retro development.
A few observations:


1) It rasied over $100K, it didn't make over $100K. There are going to be a lot of costs in fulfilling some of those offers.
2) They're targeting PC/Mac as well as the C64, that puts it squarely in the mainstream of game development (even if it's a retro-styled) game. People that don't want the "hassle" of messing around with emulators and such become part of the target market.


But, fair play to them, if they can actually make a living providing retro games then good for them. It will be interesting to see when the game is actually released.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 12:52, 23 July 17
I can't believe we're talking tax problems now....

But fine, you can, as a developer, waive your right to the prize. Your own decision. Problem solved.
No prize, but still get the publicity. Happy?
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: andycadley on 12:55, 23 July 17
Maybe refine the idea? Take the money out and just have a "game club" thread each month where a recent release is picked and everyone plays, comments and maybe competes for the best score or something. With a poll to rate the game overall as a kind of game club score?
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: AMSDOS on 13:00, 23 July 17
Just give it to Public Domain if you don't want the Cash!
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Rhino on 13:15, 23 July 17
A few observations:


1) It rasied over $100K, it didn't make over $100K. There are going to be a lot of costs in fulfilling some of those offers.
2) They're targeting PC/Mac as well as the C64, that puts it squarely in the mainstream of game development (even if it's a retro-styled) game. People that don't want the "hassle" of messing around with emulators and such become part of the target market.


But, fair play to them, if they can actually make a living providing retro games then good for them. It will be interesting to see when the game is actually released.

They have given details about costs:

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/014/522/275/3ae1bf0e78de0d9b013bdddea655a1ae_original.gif?w=680&fit=max&v=1479204426&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=c51dfef1e855b2227530261a443df6a8)

More than 50% for development.
But Kickstarter does not have to be the only funding source. In fact, they continue on megafounder and go for $137k:

https://www.megafounder.com/unknown-realm (https://www.megafounder.com/unknown-realm)

They are also trying on Steam and other platforms, and they could have significantly increased revenues including other platforms like NES, so more than $100k exclusively for development is perfectly feasible.

If you see the detail of the payments made, it is very fragmented, but what most money has reported on Kickstarter seems to be the COLLECTOR'S EDITION (C64), 154$ or more x 142 buyers, which gives an idea of the number of people willing to pay large amounts of money for cartridges.

Adding PC version seems like a good idea, and PC version looks exactly the same as the C64 version, so I do not think it will involve a lot of additional work.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Shining on 13:24, 23 July 17
For me the whole thing here is going into the wrong direction. Like keith56 mentioned, it is all about the feedback. Also don't forget about the tool, hardware and demomakers out there, they also don't do this for the money. They do it for the fun of it and to get a little feedback about their products. When you are now talking, giving some gamecoders money, what about them. I don't think you can draw a line somewhere. If one want to spent any money, then do something like cpcretrodev (but also for demos, tools, hardware,...). Perhaps a cpcwikiretrodev  ;) .


Some posts above, one wrote that if he dislikes a production he'll better not give any feedback. And in my case, I was very disappointed (and still am) about the Pentomino-feedback because exactly that is what I think about Pentomino: It seems (not for everyone) to be a too bad production. I'm continuously improving my skills, today I'm not able to code something like PinballDreams or SMB but I was proud of it. During the end of Pentomino development Hal6128 and I began to plan our next production. Cause I wanted to do something with hardwarescroll (to improve my skills) we wanted to do an action-RPG (druid, diablo, etc...) but after the release of pentomino we lost motivation. I'm very bitter about that.


You want more from Shining, give feedback. You want more from keith56, give feedback.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: AMSDOS on 13:33, 23 July 17
CPC-Power has the facilities for feedback, though I think Kukulcan only accepts French comments.  :o
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Rhino on 13:38, 23 July 17
About motivation, in the Amiga Spanish demoscene of the early 90's there was a diskmag called "Fanzine" which included a section "Vote or Die". With each issue was published the results of the votes to the top 10 productions, groups, coder, graphician, musician, etc ... This Hall of Fame motivated the people a lot to do things. Seeing the name of your game, or your own in the rankings is another way of feedback.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 13:40, 23 July 17
CPC-Power has the facilities for feedback, though I think Kukulcan only accepts French comments.  :o

I've read comments in English too.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 13:44, 23 July 17
I'm sure the CPC can shoot its self in the foot and do nothing ,and end up like  What Lawrence of Arabia said about the Arabs  ;)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: roudoudou on 13:45, 23 July 17
If you see the detail of the payments made, it is very fragmented, but what most money has reported on Kickstarter seems to be the COLLECTOR'S EDITION (C64), 154$ or more x 142 buyers, which gives an idea of the number of people willing to pay large amounts of money for cartridges.


I do not think there will be 150 cartridge buyers at 150€ for a CPC+ cartridge. But we can try  :D
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 13:48, 23 July 17
But thats unfair cos there is some awesome programmers doing it and succeeding already here


Only the fittest survive in CPC land
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 14:12, 23 July 17
If you want feedback then be prepared, cos as people say . Not everyone feels positive toward certain games etc.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Shining on 14:30, 23 July 17
Deleted
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Shining on 14:34, 23 July 17


Only the fittest survive in CPC land


Ok, i understand and that is what it seems to be. When this is really the case,and i hope that others will prove me wrong, i am out.....
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 14:42, 23 July 17
For me the whole thing here is going into the wrong direction. Like keith56 mentioned, it is all about the feedback.

No, what keith56 is asking for is publicity. That you talk about his game, mention it on other forums and on your Facebook page etc.
And that kind of publicity is exactly what a site like that will do. First of all it will send out mails to all members when a new game has been submitted, making sure everyone (interested) is informed. Then they will try out the game.
This part of the idea solves the "I can post something on the forum - and it's gone from the frontpage the next day!" problem.

Also don't forget about the tool, hardware and demomakers out there, they also don't do this for the money. They do it for the fun of it and to get a little feedback about their products. When you are now talking, giving some gamecoders money, what about them. I don't think you can draw a line somewhere. If one want to spent any money, then do something like cpcretrodev (but also for demos, tools, hardware,...). Perhaps a cpcwikiretrodev  ;) .

Of course I can draw the line whereever I want to. That's exactly what CPCRetroDev is doing, and this site could easily do it too. Who are you to decide such things?
Of course, you could make categories if you absolutely wanted to. One for demos, if there is anyone who wants to donate to demomakers the same way. One for hardware stuff to, if someone out there thinks it isn't enough to pay the creator for devices when they buy them.
But for now, the idea is about game-development - just like CPCRetroDev is.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: TMR on 14:56, 23 July 17
The biggest retro market is USA, and the most extended 8-bit machines there were the C64 and NES, if I'm not mistaken. Collectors of both systems are accustomed to paying large quantities per cartridges, which have much greater profit margin than tapes or discs.

The price tag of cartridge games on the C64 at least is higher than tape or disk because it costs more to produce cartridges - they're not recycled copies of Music Maker or International Soccer and even if they were it'd still cost money to desolder the ROM and replace it with a burnt EPROM of the game!

Loosely speaking, i believe the profit margin is slightly but not significantly higher for disk-based C64 games since 5.25" disks are a little easier and cheaper to source, so for the CPC that probably means tape is the cheapest option i think...?

Apart from digital downloads of course but those are usually priced down to make up for the lack of physical product.

More on the original topic and if anyone wants my advice (and i'm not sure they do but hey ho, you're getting it anyway) then a moderated, sticky thread on this section of the forum just containing posts about new releases with a screenshot, links to the relevant discussions and a download would be a good idea; it's harder for a release to get lost in the general traffic that way.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 15:00, 23 July 17
More on the original topic and if anyone wants my advice (and i'm not sure they do but hey ho, you're getting it anyway) then a moderated, sticky thread on this section of the forum just containing posts about new releases with a screenshot, links to the relevant discussions and a download would be a good idea; it's harder for a release to get lost in the general traffic that way.

Or it should just be a sticky that authors are allowed to make one post in for each new game. No discussion in that thread. Only posting when a game is new.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:01, 23 July 17
And that kind of publicity is exactly what a site like that will do. First of all it will send out mails to all members when a new game has been submitted, making sure everyone (interested) is informed. Then they will try out the game.
Sounds like a CPC "new releases" RSS feed :) I would subscribe to that.
I already get the CPCWiki RSS feed.

Doesn't the front page need better visibility? I think also, it's a bit boring to just see a link on the front page as it is now, it needs screenshots and youtube links.

The CPCGameDev is a great way to both teach new programmers that optimisation is still important for "next gen" AND gives good publicity for the CPC :)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: TMR on 15:27, 23 July 17
Or it should just be a sticky that authors are allowed to make one post in for each new game. No discussion in that thread. Only posting when a game is new.

i'd limit it to posting when something is complete and the reason i said to make it moderated was to avoid those topic rambles that are bound to happen because someone didn't read the first post in a sticky thread which laid down the rules... =-)

Sounds like a CPC "new releases" RSS feed :) I would subscribe to that.

Yes, that'd be good for me too as someone who tries to keep up with countless forums and feeds to cover releases on a range of 8-bits.

The CPCGameDev is a great way to both teach new programmers that optimisation is still important for "next gen" AND gives good publicity for the CPC :)

And having a deadline is good for some programmers too, something specific to aim at rather than the nebulous "when it's finished". i tend to work best under those circumstances myself... sometimes. [Ahem]
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 16:00, 23 July 17
Arnoldemu pointed me in the direction of this thread-I had followed it, but not the last several posts...

For our part, please do let us know how we can help with concrete ideas. We can easily create a subforum for new releases and announcements and we can see (if people want) how to lock posts so that only OPers can update (tho you'd need other threads for discussing them too?). After all the structure of the forum is not set in stone!

We can also (naturally) post on the wiki front page. I've been asking people to help with that for ages, but only a handful have (thanks!) and lately, with the amount of work I have I've neglected it even more.

People can mention me on Twitter (@krakout) and I'll relay the news.

Or we could do a dedicated Twitter feed for new releases (sounds like a good idea to me).

Or people could post in the CPCwiki Facebook page.

If someone can code the page discussed (which, frankly, sounds like Steam, only more complicated), please do,and we can host it if the community wants us to.

Or we could have a subforum only accessible through microdonations and do it a bit more manually.

Anything we can do to help :)

Oh, and I'll see if and how specific subforums can have their own RSS feed.

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Octoate on 16:31, 23 July 17
Well, as someone who tries to write news about the Amstrad CPC releases for the last decades, I was always trying to get information about new releases by reading and visiting all the different forums and websites. It is very seldom (maybe once in a year) that someone drops me a mail or a PM about a new release and since I don't have the time to read all forums / websites anymore I might miss some of the releases. That's a shame, because in my opinion every title deserves some attention. However, I decided not to write news about productions where I have to translate their website or the production itself, so I am limited to english and german productions.
All my news are also cross-posted to Twitter and are sometimes mentioned by Bitfellas or Pouet if they are scene related. Sometimes I also post news about CPC related productions on the german "Retro" magazine website.
Anyway... if there are threads about the progress of a production and the release is mentioned on page xx, it is hard to notice it for me, since I don't have time to read every posting. It would absolutely help me, if the author drops me a line and I guess it is the same for Genesis8 or the CPCWiki website - like Gryzor already mentioned. Keep us informed and we will also try inform others about it, as good as we can.
For my motivation: I take my own website statistics. They are ok for me to keep it up and running...
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:13, 23 July 17
All very true. Same here, it's very seldom that I get an email or pm about a release...and, actually,I often get sad because some people (like the Spaniards, especially, or the French) choose not to share the news outside their own communities. Not all of them, of course, but there's been lots of stuff I had to translate to find out.

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Rhino on 19:16, 23 July 17

Ok, i understand and that is what it seems to be. When this is really the case,and i hope that others will prove me wrong, i am out.....

I think I've never told the Batman Group story here. The beginnings were not easy (as it often happens), but in our case there were some quirks. Two of our members had ripped a couple of intros a few years before BG was founded and that gave us a bad name in the beginning. In the Amiga diskmag I mentioned above, Fanzine, we were mentioned in articles titled as "The lamers of the month". For a while, the feedback from our productions was questioning our authorship and being called lamers.

So we decided to do a demo with which to settle the matter and went to one of the first spanish demo parties. There were contests of many categories and we released prods for all of them. One of the first was the graphics contest, and an amazing pixelation work of Mac was disqualified on suspicions of being scanned. The last one was the demo contest, where we were in the last position, but at least it served as evidence that we were not lamers:

http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=1129&when=1993

At that time there was a spanish group called Darkness (1st in the demo contest) that was considered the "elite" of the spanish scene. During those years we worked hard to improve them, but the top of the Fanzine's "Vote or Die" was always for them.

When you see that the feedback from your work is not the one you desire, you can give up, or go on to improve and demonstrate to everyone what you are capable of.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: villain on 21:16, 23 July 17

Ok, i understand and that is what it seems to be. When this is really the case,and i hope that others will prove me wrong, i am out.....

I really don't hope you take this into account. As I already told I found Pentomino to be a great game. It's neither SMB nor PD probably, from the technical point of view. But it still remains a very polished and addictive game. So I hope to see other releases in the future!

And all you devs, I think you should not underestimate the number of pure "consumers" who never appear in the public, since the don't participate in forums or anywhere else.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: AMSDOS on 11:05, 24 July 17



We can also (naturally) post on the wiki front page. I've been asking people to help with that for ages, but only a handful have (thanks!) and lately, with the amount of work I have I've neglected it even more.




I suggested something like that on Page 1, but it didn't even receive a reply let alone a Like!!  >:(
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: remax on 12:35, 24 July 17
I was told off by one guy because he felt Poly Play shipping costs where "a rip off"


I don't know if Polyplay shipping costs are a rip off, but imo there are on the too high side, at least psychologically.


I really hope that 'shipping cost' is a wide term and a big part of it is given back to polyplay, and i hope the money didn't went to the local post.


Psychologically again, I don't mind paying  higher for the game but high shipping costs are what often refrain me from buying (even if in this case i have made an exception 2 times as i bought the two physical release in two separate package).


Furthermore, learning that at 50 copies sold, they didn't even cover their costs, i feel there is a bad price choice, as 50 is the expected mean of solds on CPC, so at this volume you should have covered your costs.


For me, paying 10 bucks more for the game and 5 bucks less for the shipping would have not bothered me.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: remax on 12:37, 24 July 17
Maybe refine the idea? Take the money out and just have a "game club" thread each month where a recent release is picked and everyone plays, comments and maybe competes for the best score or something. With a poll to rate the game overall as a kind of game club score?


Feels like the dos game club and it is a great idea in my opinion :)
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: remax on 12:42, 24 July 17
Or it should just be a sticky that authors are allowed to make one post in for each new game. No discussion in that thread. Only posting when a game is new.


Yeah, a dedicated forum/subforum with one topic of one post per release. great idea.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Shining on 14:42, 24 July 17

I like the Idea with the sticky post but here another suggestion, going into directions mentioned here before (if achievable):


If there will be a "webpage" somewhere where you have for example 4 columns: Games, Demos, Tools, Hardware. And right under them you have the last 10 "products" of that category with a picture, a link to it and a link to the forum (something like the news already existing on the cpcwiki frontpage but not everything into one category but subdivied into 4).


And then the users or an adminitrator get the possibilitiy to enter new entrys with an easy interface, coz I think the mediawiki-software is an obstacle for some. And then, when it will be possible to subscribe to this page, everyone, who wants, gets the news (and can include them into his own page)..
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 17:13, 24 July 17
If there will be a "webpage" somewhere where you have for example 4 columns: Games, Demos, Tools, Hardware. And right under them you have the last 10 "products" of that category with a picture, a link to it and a link to the forum (something like the news already existing on the cpcwiki frontpage but not everything into one category but subdivied into 4).

And then the users or an adminitrator get the possibilitiy to enter new entrys with an easy interface, coz I think the mediawiki-software is an obstacle for some. And then, when it will be possible to subscribe to this page, everyone, who wants, gets the news (and can include them into his own page)..

This might actually be the prodlist at pouet.net (http://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php)
If everyone used that site, we would have a place to keep updated. It would also put more focus on the CPC.
Users can also vote for productions on pouet.net
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Targhan on 17:17, 24 July 17
The idea of Shining is a bit similar to mine (some pages ago), except that I would also sort by years (2017, 2016, 2015 etc.). Why limit to 10 productions if everything can be shown? With a little screenshot and a possible link to a webpage, and a forum thread, it would be great I think.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:11, 24 July 17
While I don't have a problem with advocating for other sites, i don't think a general site would be the best choice for such a project...Though I love Pouet .

All the rest are good ideas...

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:12, 24 July 17
The idea of Shining is a bit similar to mine (some pages ago), except that I would also sort by years (2017, 2016, 2015 etc.). Why limit to 10 productions if everything can be shown? With a little screenshot and a possible link to a webpage, and a forum thread, it would be great I think.
That's readily done with a wiki table :)

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:13, 24 July 17
I like the Idea with the sticky post but here another suggestion, going into directions mentioned here before (if achievable):


If there will be a "webpage" somewhere where you have for example 4 columns: Games, Demos, Tools, Hardware. And right under them you have the last 10 "products" of that category with a picture, a link to it and a link to the forum (something like the news already existing on the cpcwiki frontpage but not everything into one category but subdivied into 4).


And then the users or an adminitrator get the possibilitiy to enter new entrys with an easy interface, coz I think the mediawiki-software is an obstacle for some. And then, when it will be possible to subscribe to this page, everyone, who wants, gets the news (and can include them into his own page)..
OK,who's in favour of changing the wiki homepage completely?

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:15, 24 July 17

Yeah, a dedicated forum/subforum with one topic of one post per release. great idea.
But a sticky thread for all new releases would have the same effect of things getting lost...

We'd need a new thread for each project. But then,when would it be unstickied (sic)?

Also,linked threads for discussion...

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:16, 24 July 17

I suggested something like that on Page 1, but it didn't even receive a reply let alone a Like!!  >:(
Things come and go [emoji16]

What was your suggestion?

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:17, 24 July 17
I think I've never told the Batman Group story here. The beginnings were not easy (as it often happens), but in our case there were some quirks. Two of our members had ripped a couple of intros a few years before BG was founded and that gave us a bad name in the beginning. In the Amiga diskmag I mentioned above, Fanzine, we were mentioned in articles titled as "The lamers of the month". For a while, the feedback from our productions was questioning our authorship and being called lamers.

So we decided to do a demo with which to settle the matter and went to one of the first spanish demo parties. There were contests of many categories and we released prods for all of them. One of the first was the graphics contest, and an amazing pixelation work of Mac was disqualified on suspicions of being scanned. The last one was the demo contest, where we were in the last position, but at least it served as evidence that we were not lamers:

http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=1129&when=1993

At that time there was a spanish group called Darkness (1st in the demo contest) that was considered the "elite" of the spanish scene. During those years we worked hard to improve them, but the top of the Fanzine's "Vote or Die" was always for them.

When you see that the feedback from your work is not the one you desire, you can give up, or go on to improve and demonstrate to everyone what you are capable of.
That was a great story,and a lovely post.Thanks!

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: remax on 18:18, 24 July 17
But a sticky thread for all new releases would have the same effect of things getting lost...

We'd need a new thread for each project. But then,when would it be unstickied (sic)?

Also,linked threads for discussion...

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If it's a whole subforum, no need for sticky thread. The latest, the highest as there would be no bump
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:20, 24 July 17
OK,so a subforum, only announcements,no discussions,no stickies.Correct?

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 18:20, 24 July 17
I really hope that 'shipping cost' is a wide term and a big part of it is given back to polyplay, and i hope the money didn't went to the local post.

I can't speak for Poly Play, so this is second hand information. Please take that into account.

What I've been told is that parcels get lost and without getting covered by tracking Poly Play can't really assume the cost of sending the games.

I think it is a bit expensive, but I understand the reasons and I can't do anything about it anyway.

Furthermore, learning that at 50 copies sold, they didn't even cover their costs, i feel there is a bad price choice, as 50 is the expected mean of solds on CPC, so at this volume you should have covered your costs.


For me, paying 10 bucks more for the game and 5 bucks less for the shipping would have not bothered me.

Again, I can't tell 100%, but the quality Poly Play puts in has a cost; mostly the cover art, that isn't free.

Poly Play had never produced CPC games before and I'm afraid it may not happen again, because 50 units per game is sadly not enough. I guess he could make it cheaper, but if you're not getting something really special I rather not bother.

That's how things are, and it's fine. I may not do more collector editions; but I'm likely to keep making CPC games for my personal pleasure.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Targhan on 18:30, 24 July 17
Quote
That's readily done with a wiki table

Well, if it's simple to do, it's even better :) . But it would need a good exposure, such as on the front page. Well, it would almost be like the screenshots already present... Creators simply don't think about putting their productions in it...
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:36, 24 July 17
Agree on all points. I'd have to rearrange the homepage and devs would have to do a bit of work,but it's easy.

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: reidrac on 18:36, 24 July 17

Well, if it's simple to do, it's even better :) . But it would need a good exposure, such as on the front page. Well, it would almost be like the screenshots already present... Creators simply don't think about putting their productions in it...


I always forget... and when someone (@Gryzor usually) reminds me the wiki front page, I add my games. I added Traxtor and Golden Tail, but I don't recall adding Magica  :doh:
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:37, 24 July 17
Can't like on Tapatalk [emoji6]

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: remax on 19:32, 24 July 17
OK,so a subforum, only announcements,no discussions,no stickies.Correct?

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Exactly
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: mr_lou on 22:04, 24 July 17
I still wanna encourage more CPC users to use pouet.net too.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Puresox on 22:21, 24 July 17
Must Admit The Wiki/forum seems to have grown massively or am I mistaken?Mind you it has  been  a vintage year . Lots of impressive games have reached the market . ? Ups and Downs  of the productions I suppose?

Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: AMSDOS on 12:49, 25 July 17
Things come and go (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji16.png)


Ironically I was looking at this forum from a Tapatalk site on my Computer the other day.

Quote
What was your suggestion?

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It's the 1st thing I wrote from my 1st post on the 1st page which states:


Quote
A page on the Wiki and a Link on the Main Page under CPC Related News should help with that.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 13:01, 25 July 17
Must Admit The Wiki/forum seems to have grown massively or am I mistaken?Mind you it has  been  a vintage year . Lots of impressive games have reached the market . ? Ups and Downs  of the productions I suppose?
The wiki is going well [emoji4] I can give analytics if anyone is interested-i used to do a year review each January but not many felt it newsworthy...

As for productions, it'd be interesting to see a trend line.

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 13:04, 25 July 17

Ironically I was looking at this forum from a Tapatalk site on my Computer the other day.


It's the 1st thing I wrote from my 1st post on the 1st page which states:
Well,OK,but we took or a couple of steps further... But in any case,as I said things come and go,such is the nature of a forum.Nothing to worry over.

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Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 14:08, 25 July 17
How about a guide to marketing your CPC production on other sites?


It seems most people will post here, and maybe on the CPC Facebook page, about their work, and maybe that will be picked up by a Spanish forum or Indie Retro News, but that doesn't make for a lot of exposure, and indeed you will miss any feedback on those sites as you likely won't know about it.


So a wiki page with a list of CPC- and retro-centric forums, blogs, sites and contacts. And how to make a snappy video of your CPC game, for these places to embed - I know for sure that I will watch a bit of a video on those sites to see a game in action.
Title: Re: Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.
Post by: Gryzor on 21:41, 27 July 17
Well,that's a nice thought,but an article or guide is another thing. Still useful though, for those who would like to see how to give things a push...

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