"Batman Group continues to insist on demonstrating that the machine was totally wasted during the commercial life of it. And we warn. "Although it will be the game technically advancing CPC to date, is still far from reaching the true potential of Amstrad According to our estimates, Pinball Dreams will use around 40% of the potential, Batman Forever will be around 60 % while the classic commercial software rarely exceeded 10%. "
Oh I hope that's true and we start to see software that backs up this claim.
"Batman Group continues to insist on demonstrating that the machine was totally wasted during the commercial life of it. And we warn. "Although it will be the game technically advancing CPC to date, is still far from reaching the true potential of Amstrad According to our estimates, Pinball Dreams will use around 40% of the potential, Batman Forever will be around 60 % while the classic commercial software rarely exceeded 10%. "
So does that mean a 64k 464 could potentially load a 42k program from Tape in 2 Secs?
So does that mean a 64k 464 could potentially load a 42k program from Tape in 2 Secs?
Converting a few loading screens is one thing, to convert the full game is quite another. Why not shots of the actual game?For some people yes. When has Rhino talked about something and never delivered?
Time will tell. But we're used to big promises, a few screen shots, and then nothing happening sadly.
Why not shots of the actual game?
Is this being entered into the CPCretrodev contest?
If the can make it following the restrictions of the contest (64K, one single load), that would be extra-impressive :DConsidering Rhino did patch the original firmware on the fly in Batman Demo to access more space on the disk my educated guess is it's not likely.
Considering Rhino did patch the original firmware on the fly in Batman Demo to access more space on the disk my educated guess is it's not likely.No. There was no patching of firmware.
Just for the record, a preview exist for C64, but they never finished it lol.
Considering Rhino did patch the original firmware on the fly in Batman Demo to access more space on the disk my educated guess is it's not likely.
Converting a few loading screens is one thing, to convert the full game is quite another. Why not shots of the actual game?
Time will tell. But we're used to big promises, a few screen shots, and then nothing happening sadly.
Somewhere I read that the Pinball Dreams project for C64 was because of a bet.
Well, after more than 10 years, I think that who believed he could do it on C64 should pay the bet.
I did nothing with the disc in BF nor Pinball Dreams, it was Arnoldemu.
I have one question : we've all seen the screens converted from the amiga in Perfect pix, but which mode will you use for the ingame ?
Will it be mode 0 or mode 1 with extended palette ?
For some reason I doubt Rhino will share any details before the release; he likes to surprise :D
I have one question : we've all seen the screens converted from the amiga in Perfect pix, but which mode will you use for the ingame ?
Will it be mode 0 or mode 1 with extended palette ?
Many graphic techniques are involved, some of them have not been implemented in games before. But what I'm proud of, though it is a personal feeling, it is that after playing around with Pinball Dreams on CPC, the Amiga version seems less real.Nice. You make it very easy to wait. :-\
Nothing else I can say.
I just remembered that @SuTeKH/Epyteor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=466) converted some Pinball Dreams tunes early this year...
Perhaps only a coincidence? ;)
I look forward to sticking this on my C4CPC :-) If it will fit in a 512KB cart space and run on a 64KB GX4000...it has a custom disc loader so you can't put it onto c4cpc.
But it's not just the graphical work (I guess a board would be >80KB of graphics data on the CPC - a couple of screenfuls for the board (overscan?) plus the lit/unlit graphics), but things like how the pinball moves on the furniture (ramps, tracks, etc)... a big project indeed!
it has a custom disc loaderso you can't put it onto c4cpc.
From the spectrum release ?
Since quite a while I also think about a Pinball Simulator for the CPC, MacDeath already sent me some nice picks. I'm curious who this one looks compared to my ideas.
Since quite a while I also think about a Pinball Simulator for the CPC, MacDeath already sent me some nice picks. I'm curious who this one looks compared to my ideas.
I believe Time Scanner is the best pinball game so far on the CPC... But everything is about to change!
It is a working in progress? or you can show something?Not now. IMHO your project is way advanced in time. :)
Not now. IMHO your project is way advanced in time. :)
My idea is basically to use the first 64 KB fully as screen RAM. And display it for example as 16*32 (MODE 0). So the screen is four times more high than width.
This way you put GFX only once in the first 64 KB, the background. It stays there as long as you use this particular pin ball machine.
The big advantage is that you actually only have to scroll um and down, but don't need to write background GFX anylonger. All CPU time would be left to animations (Sound, math, etc.)
It doensn't have to be in that format you can make the screen more width too if you like.
But how so often, I kind of miss the time at the moment to realize it that way.
I'm really looking forward to Pinball Dreams from Rhino!!! :) :) :)
Well, you can design it of course in a way which fits taste and reality :) The idea is to omit horizontal scrolling and by this being able to load the background only once and "just" scroll up and down (which can be done pixel pricise and is very smooth, so being able to keep the ball in the center of the screen or where ever you like). Of course you can use a screen format as width as the CPC screen.
The great thing about a silver ball is that its speed can be everything from fast too slow, and Y-scrolling on the CPC is precise to the scan line. What a nice choreography. ;) :)
Is there a time scale , that us CPC fans can look forward too?
Is there a time scale , that us CPC fans can look forward too?
Oh wow. I love Pinballs on the computer !!!!
Would love it if someone converted Robocop 3 to the CPC...I've done the C64 title music (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/demos/wip-now-that's-what-i-call-chip-tunes-(winape)/msg133703/#msg133703)... it's a start!
Smoothest scroll i have ever seen on a CPC.
(don't try to put cube into circle and all goes fine)
It is a standard 25Hz double buffer vertical scrolling with rupture. Nicelly done.
TotO usually do right analysis, but I fear that this time is not the case: no 25hz, no double buffer, no standar rupture. :)Haha. I have expected that you are using fliped pictures to increase the ingame colours. Wrong speculation... :-\
Shame the menu & in-game music is so shyte! ^_^
There's a big french retro-gaming meeting this week-end, should we have something to show ?See you at the RGC. ;)
There's a big french retro-gaming meeting this week-end, should we have something to show?
I hope so, we are working out the details to publish the preview in a few days.
I would like to release the preview in a few days, and for that we are polishing some details. Is there a cat-art master who wants to participate?
Have you contacted Supersly? He's pretty experienced at designing CAT'arts (http://cpc.sylvestre.org/projets/projets_cat.html).
It's very nice and of course the best pinball game ever released on CPC 8)
Is the ball management in final version?
I do not know the original pinball game no the other CPC ones, but it seems very good.
I have not understand why it is a preview ; what is missing ? Only the drawing of the 4 tables ?
Anyway good job for the scrolling synchronization with the ball, I have not lots of reflexes, and I do not lose the ball from the eyes
I would also like to publicly thank to SuTeKH for their hard work on music. Without him the preview had not been on time!Thank you, sir! You're too kind! But, I did under 1% of the work. All praise should be for you, Mac, arnoldemu and McKlain!
Ok that's good for the pinball dreams cpc version !
Now you can adapt pinball fantaisies !
;)
For my eyes and ears this is a wonder! :o
Absolutely impressive!
Thank you so much.
I can't even begin to understand how you have achieved this awesomeness! It looks and sounds amazing plus plays just like the Amiga original even to the point I can do the same tricks with the flippers and the ball reacts just as it did!
Amazing! Well done to all involved! Can't wait for the full game!
Thanks!
Physics is still one of the points to be adjusted for the final version. The goal is to be as close to the original as possible.
I appreciate the feedback from experts of the original version!
Congratulations, you did again an awesome job. I have already people from C64 or even Amiga which want to buy a CPC just to play it :)
but..... i hear them say "the sound is not as good as on c64" behhh XD
Physics is still one of the points to be adjusted for the final version. The goal is to be as close to the original as possible.
I appreciate the feedback from experts of the original version!
Apparently, it's not pushing the CPC that hard... Doesn't use CPC's full potential.It doesn't matter in my point of view. A Game fullfills more achievements than technical ones. Entertainement, fun, playability, good sound, AI, story and ... and.. .
Apparently, it's not pushing the CPC that hard... Doesn't use CPC's full potential.:picard:
there is some great music while you play that changes according to what the ball is doing. Really awesome.
It doesn't matter in my point of view. A Game fullfills more achievements than technical ones. Entertainement, fun, playability, good sound, AI, story and ... and.. .
Look what have been done the last month stunning games, applications, hardware for the CPC. Seems we are getting pampered. :) . But, it's also understandable. Regarding the last achievements I'm also wondering what people from 1984/85 would have thought if they had seen such things. Do you think Alan Sugar woulde had been surprised, not by the hardware, but games?
And a video from a real CPC captured by Aris of retrounboxers:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tcsxUtMj5I[/youtube]&feature=em-uploademail
HEY! That IS on an Ams... ... wait a minute! I see what you did there! ^_^
The amiga version looks great but can you show us the Amstrads? :laugh:
Hum. Feel free to boo me (I mean: I can live with it) --> I agree with ukmarkh.Apparently, it's not pushing the CPC that hard... Doesn't use CPC's full potential.:picard:
:picard:
Wow that looks so good on an actual machine. ;D ;D
Effectively, it's great on "real hadware" ;D
I guess the ball lose too much energy (friction too high?). It is particulary noticeable when the ball run the flipper lane.
I cannot make the ball go to the big ramp without using space to give extra energy, even when the ball was running the lane from the beginning (there must be conservation of momentum, added to the flipper move)
Hope this will help.
Yes, like the Amiga version.
Another thing that I saw is the "emulation" of the amiga's mod.
When you hit a bonus on the Amiga, the tracker restarts at the track number that it was left.
This is a very nice touch and sounds like the original.
Brillant conversion so far! Time & effort to be so close to the original, just wow.
Very smart choice: everyone knows Pinball Dreams. Thanks to bring CPC under the lights again.
Smart choice (bis) to achieve 50hz responsiveness and use our strengths: colorful gfx, splitscreen and HW-scroll.
Well, I'm not a player, but I can say: Batman Group did it again. Bravo.
:picard:
Hum. Feel free to boo me (I mean: I can live with it) --> I agree with ukmarkh.
From what I see and my own technical experience: PB-preview doesn't use CPC's full potential.
From what I read? 40% on Rhino's scale, 50% of cpu-time available on a frame --> not full potential.
Come on! we've just had "Imperial Mahjong" which is (undoubtly) a double- technical achievement: just watch and hear.
Also just look back at past releases: Orion Prime (damm! Arkos again...), R-Type... Big games with much effort (time, love, dedication, etc...) and also technical achievements.
Congratulations, you did again an awesome job. I have already people from C64 or even Amiga which want to buy a CPC just to play it :)
but..... i hear them say "the sound is not as good as on c64" behhh XD
Care to explain?The facepalm refers to the style of your comment in relation to the effort that some people put to bring the community something like PD on CPC.
The facepalm refers to the style of your comment in relation to the effort that some people put to bring the community something like PD on CPC.
(...) I find it interesting take demoscene common tricks in games. For example, the splitscreen + hardware scroll uses something like your RVI. I do not know if this have been used in games before.:D My RVI is Public Domain for years now!
My RVI is Public Domain for years now!
Also remember: I have not been able to code a sample when you asked a few years ago.
For those who may not get it:
the 2nd splitscreen (the main one with pinball table) requires some uncommon hardware trick,
in order to allow 1-pixel precise vertical scrolling & start at required pixel-line within character-line.
To achieve this: likely a few tiny-splits on a single scanline in the left-border before displaying at monitor,
but also (Rhino can confirm?) likely some code adjustment depending on the CRTC type.
To put in a nutshell: some high-end hardware trick.
Many can understand the trick, very few could code it.
Yes it is... this one is based on crtc reg0... all 7 lines are precalculed to give you the exact pixel Line to display... Rhino Would release soon an example source for those who wanted to know the trick...
For the other one, just have a look at #e1e, if i remember...
Great work guys. I fired this up on my 6128 last night for a quick play.
Intro pics are very nice. [size=78%]Super smooth scrolling and very colourful.[/size]
Me and the wife were big Pinball Dreams/Fantasies fans back in the day, and her family had a 464 before an Amiga (sorry I had a Speccy!).
I did think it might be easier to recover the ball once it had passed the flippers compared to the Amiga version, but maybe that was more my wife's skill!
I will try and get a longer play over the weekend in between house jobs and looking after the baby! My Amiga is setup in the same room, so hopefully I can do a back to back test.
Thumbs up ;)
Well can hardly say anything else , than it looks amazing. When I started watching the C64 version I was worried that the C64 version were going to top it , but it looks like the CPC has got another shining example of what sort of machine it can be . Really you guy's are producing stuff which makes a difference . Well in the weird and wonderful world of Retromania anyhow.
Cheers
One can see so little of the flipper table on the C64 unfinished version. It must make it harder to playYes the screen allocation and size is really not set up for a decent version of the game ,really surprised at how they considered that as a good system.
I was actually thrown off my chair by the sound! Never before heard something like that on the entire 8bit platform. And this includes the game consoles as well.
HA HA ! Maybe you never heard about Orion Prime or Imperial MahJong.
And you probably don't know what is a C64 with a fabulous SID... :)
I was actually thrown off my chair by the sound! Never before heard something like that on the entire 8bit platform. And this includes the game consoles as well.As said, the sound will be updated on the final version to be better...
I was actually thrown off my chair by the sound! Never before heard something like that on the entire 8bit platform. And this includes the game consoles as well.
You talk about "entire 8bit platform" so...
That's why I laugh and talk about Targhan games. (what is the problem if these games are Arkos ones ??? Have you a problem with that ?)
Because they sound a way better...
Music adaptation from Blaizer are great. You can stay on your chair. :)
I think your comment lacking in objectivity.
If you want to see hi end C64 game with music you can watch "Mayhem in monsterland." another 8bit computer.
Talking about I7 / Soundblaster XFi and Amiga is nonsens... they are not 8bits at all.
cheers.
Thanks for the video.I can understand that should be into the pipe, but here what I have seen:
It is also possible to learn from this preview to improve the final version (or Pinball Fantasies), so any ideas about improvements is welcome.
Last week end were the french party retro Gaming Connexion 2016 in Meaux (near Paris). Pinball Dreams preview was a great success. Many people came to play on my CPC until the CTM screen crashes at night.
@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174)
It plays very well indeed, and I've put in a lot of hours (and pounds) into pinball tables (both digital and physical) over the years.
It's been a while since I've played Pinball Dreams on the Amiga but from memory this feels very close. Are the ball physics modelled on those of Pinball Dreams or are they trying to be more accurate? From memory they improved the physics slightly in Fantasies.
Regarding Fantasies, I believe the tables are a screen taller and with a little more going on. Perhaps you'll need to dig in to some of the remaining 60% of the CPC's capabilities for that one :P
Anyway, well done! It's a fantastic accomplishment so far!
Last week end were the french party retro Gaming Connexion 2016 in Meaux (near Paris). Pinball Dreams preview was a great success. Many people came to play on my CPC until the CTM screen crashes at night.
I can understand that should be into the pipe, but here what I have seen:
- The ball can be launched only at the maximum speed. (so, you can't target an area when you start)
- In the same way, the ball physic look to lost too much speed on ramps.
- It is hard to play without problem related to the table collisions. May be not enough permissive?
This must be compensated in other ways, since the ratio between the ball and the rest of the board is more real in CPC than Amiga and I would not like to change it.May be the ball collision mask should be a bit smaller than its visual.
May be the ball collision mask should be a bit smaller than its visual.
Great game, congratulations!!
The scroll is gorgeous
Go for it and finish it, but take the time you need
My only complain is with the score board , that is not very readable, the foreground and background colors are very similar, im using the winape emulator for reference.
And it would be cool if you could put the game link in the first post
Last week end were the french party retro Gaming Connexion 2016 in Meaux (near Paris). Pinball Dreams preview was a great success. Many people came to play on my CPC until the CTM screen crashes at night.
I have never been fan of flickering screens (even if it allows to see more colours), I think the intro screens would be better with standard display (maybe with rasters for mode 1 screens). Fortunatly, the main game doesn't use this technic and is just amazing !
By the way, It seens that the creators of the c64 version have announced the project resumes after so many years ... :)
http://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=12&topicid=49146&showallposts=1 (http://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=12&topicid=49146&showallposts=1)
They say we are always bashing C64? Because of our Inferiority Complex? Really don't see that.
By the way, It seens that the creators of the c64 version have announced the project resumes after so many years ...Another great victory for you and an humiliating debacle for the overtly overstated and despicable talentless C64 scene*.
Very interesting reading, that CPC forum thread. Everyone there seems to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex regarding the C64, feeling the need to constantly bash it and its users as they do. I mean, what does it fucking matter which 30+ year old platform you prefer to use? Just use the one you like best and be happy about it.
its like speccy ppl. inferior - without the complex.a few banters are always fun and relevant, lol.
another video :
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6CVDfFqsCk[/youtube]
That LCD has some serious problem keeping up with the scrolling, at least it seems so watching the captured video converted throygh YouTube showing on my LCD padWell, would be interesting to know what he uses to plug the CPC on this monitor ?
I haven't read through this whole thread, so I apologise if this has already been asked.
Isn't it supposed to run on a CPC plus?
I tried yesterday (at the annual local retro-gaming meeting), and all I got was a black screen.
I haven't read through this whole thread, so I apologise if this has already been asked.
Isn't it supposed to run on a CPC plus?
I tried yesterday (at the annual local retro-gaming meeting), and all I got was a black screen.
It works on the plus. The only requirements are 128 kb and floppy drive.
Maybe it was a disk or drive issue? A 10 sectors per track special format designed by Arnoldemu is used, and maybe it is more sensitive to minor damages in disc that are not noticeable in standard format.
turek = turkey?http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=turek
But I guess he is Polish according to the writtings ?
One of the thing I think may be the most triky : all the colour cyclings everywhere...Indeed, but luckily the lights on the board (which seem to be set for the worst case scenario in the preview, they don't seem to be linked to the things that perma-light them up) flicker at around 0.5Hz, so that's 25 frames to update them (a few per frame).
(it's a freaking flipper/pinball)
@mr_lou (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) : Please describe to me your plus configuration.
Are you running it from hxc or gotek or real drive?
3.5" or 3"?
Btw, the Oliver Twins verifying that it works on plusAlways nice to see them around. They really are legends for us.
Always nice to see them around. They really are legends for us.Did they release anything on the CPC to deserve that status? In my opinion their best games were early games like Killipede which was Amstrad only. Dizzy? No..
Here we have 8bitscene and Demoscene and Amigascene putting the projector on this.
CPC was unknown to Poland few years ago, until some Joker-themed-award-raping Demo showed those speccy-C64-Amigaists that CPC is more than just a bad Speccyclone but more like an upgraded AtariST clone with only 8bit CPU.
I can assure you that Batman demo did not enlighten us in Poland :) . Cpc was known in Poland for ages - I got mine (464) in 1985 and I knew many people who owned them at that time. Cpcs were highly appraised by computer magazines in Poland for its bundled monitor, its high resolution and high quality basic. 6128 was also very popular as cheap cp/m machine - many companies used it before switching to pcs. Of course, zx spectrum and Atari xl ruled in 8bits, followed by commodore (c64 and later amigas). Cpc was a minority platform, so it did not have a chance to get locally developed games, but the cracking scene in Poland was pretty strong - most titles were cracked locally from tape or disk copies of originals. There were also some small tools or games developed, I personally even did a small music disk for cpc with music ripped from various games :)To backen this up I can also add that CPCs were provided to Polish political opposition "Solidarność" for editing texts in the 80s. Some people also grey imported them, but there was no official distribution due to COCOM cold war embargo. The Polish well known computer magazine of it's time called Bajtek (literally meaning tiny byte) did cover Games and program listing to be typed in for CPCs.
464 plus with 128k ram, HxC, Megaflash...
I suspect it's the Megaflash causing trouble, because of memory issues. I think I've experienced this before. My best guess is that the Megaflash uses up too much memory preventing certain games to run.
It'll be a while before I get a chance to check. I'm thinking about completely removing the Megaflash.
@mr_lou (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) :
Is it a ram expansion or is it modified by Bryce to 128KB?
The preview uses the page 0 of extra mem (#c1-#c7 values). Maybe some memory extension does not map the extra mem in that page?
Did they release anything on the CPC to deserve that status? In my opinion their best games were early games like Killipede which was Amstrad only. Dizzy? No..
Btw, the Oliver Twins verifying that it works on plus :)
The Oliver Twins' faces when they were watching Batman Forever
They could not believe what they were seing ;)
I'd love an (mini) interview of the Twins commenting of the stuff the CPC is capable of and why we didn't see even a fraction of it during its lifecycle.
The tools were not so good back in those days and many people was coding and compiling in the Amstrad itself; the knowledge of the machine was not perfect either, there were tight deadlines, the games had to be released for many systems at the same time... I reckon that all this made a huge difference.
For example, in the particular case of our little adventure it would have been impossible to produce the game if I was not compiling it in Winape and writing the source code in the PC. The source is more than 350KB... imagine to write it with in the Amstrad using a CP/M Plus text editor and without the mouse, it would not even fit in the RAM before compression :) . Then, compilation itself would take ages and this would make testing a bloody nightmare. Creating the graphics would have been crazy too. There were geniuses, of course, La Abadia del Crimen was entirely developed using a couple of 6128, but Paco Menéndez was a truly awesome programmer.
Yes, I know that some of the Spanish companies (like Opera) where using a PC (I think it was a PC) to cross-compile for many 8 bit systems. However, this was in the final years of 8 bit development and the problem was that the kit, as far as I know, did not take advantage of the particular characteristics each the machine. I remember reading that the deadlines, and therefore the recycling of the code, were one of the main issues back in the day. The companies used to give programmers very little time to develop the games and they reached the market even with bugs in some cases. You can read more from a real insider here:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/rastan-coder/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/rastan-coder/)
In that regard, La Abadia del Crimen was an exception. Paco developed the game he wanted to create and only when it was finished it was offered to Opera for the distribution (I hope my memory is not failing me). This made a huge difference.
:)
P.D: I also forgot to mention that only a few games of the old times take advantage of the extra RAM in the 6128. This did not help either, but from a commercial point of view the games had to be as compatible as possible. I remember to hear that in some cases it was necessary to employ compression techniques that were killing a full 1 Mhz, or more, in the Z80.
Is there a tiny bit of Irony ,in the fact that Pinball Dreams was originally published by 21st Century Entertainment , which company was made up of Ex Hewson(I have just learned). And wasn't it Mr Hewson who recently made the comments about the CPC being Soul-less.
Batman Group have shown what Soul the CPC has. And the serendipity of it being with the Production of Pinball Dreams is awesome. ;D
Is there a tiny bit of Irony ,in the fact that Pinball Dreams was originally published by 21st Century Entertainment , which company was made up of Ex Hewson(I have just learned). And wasn't it Mr Hewson who recently made the comments about the CPC being Soul-less.
Batman Group have shown what Soul the CPC has. And the serendipity of it being with the Production of Pinball Dreams is awesome. ;D
Maybe Hewson did not see the true CPC soul :)
Well, Hewson were responsible for a lot of good games on the CPC, so for that I'm thankful.
One person's opinion however, counts for nothing, three million and more CPC users disagree!
You Tube link didn't work Mod so just put a link
That was Hewson's personal opinion, but had no bearing in how he ran the company. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and, certainly, after struggling with the poor ZX for years on end I can understand why he would feel like that about a more complete machine. So what, give him a break :)Give me break ,
Give me break ,
It was just an interesting, serendipitous ironic link so I'm going to say something about it . Nothing more It wasn't just a random attack on the guy . And my comments further on in the thread , were praising the company . Why you feel the need to make a point of this about a month after this comment was made who knows. ???
Waooo! 23 pages for a preview ! :laugh:Fixed. May be because, to much other games give less in their final versions? :-\
Decent? ??? Pardon my french but this is not merely a decent game, it's f****** amazing game.
Maybe somebody can help me... To finish Beat Box I only need to implement the "Mega Hit", but I do not remember exactly what it was. I know how to get it to turn on (flashing) and it only lasts for a few seconds, but I do not know what it does, the score it gives, bonus, etc ... Does anyone know? I have been playing and it seems to be difficult to get...Even the Amiga Longplay video doesn't show what happens! Sorry!
Thanks in advance!
Can't really remember as my big score was two decades ago.
Meanwhile the manual said :picard:
(https://s26.postimg.org/s9i1vg1eh/Capture.jpg)
I don't get it.
Even the Amiga Longplay video doesn't show what happens! Sorry!
[youtube]https://youtu.be/6UNGMiPETXo?t=3912 (https://youtu.be/6UNGMiPETXo?t=3912)
[/youtube]
EDIT: Using the YOOTOOB bbcode breaks the timecode. The MEGAHIT section starts from about 1:05:30
In this one, he gets it immediately (around 07:50) and misses (around 28:00) the second time.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWqskfn6jSk[/youtube]
Thank you!
From what version is that manual? I have the original Amiga game (first edition) which include less info.
Thanks!, that new video clarified my doubts.
@amijim (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1950)
It would be possible!, but it requires 128kb of RAM, so GX4000 would not be compatible.
Hello there, i guess the majorety of c4cpc modules are used with amstrad 6128+ as 6128+ was the most successfull model of the plus range and it would be beneficial to make cpr file editions of the newly created software.I do not know neither have the skills to make such a cpr cartridge file edition of pinball dreams but if there somebody out there who has such skills , i would really appreciate to make the cartridge conversion.By the way c4cpc module is really great!thank you Gerarld!Not so sure about that. I am not alone in buying a NOS gx4000 once the c4cpc was released. I actually have 2 one in my plus and one in the gx.
Here you go
Hello there, i guess the majorety of c4cpc modules are used with amstrad 6128+ as 6128+ was the most successfull model of the plus range and it would be beneficial to make cpr file editions of the newly created software.I do not know neither have the skills to make such a cpr cartridge file edition of pinball dreams but if there somebody out there who has such skills , i would really appreciate to make the cartridge conversion.By the way c4cpc module is really great!thank you Gerarld!
Maybe someone will come up with a 64KB expansion hack for the GX4000...
I for one would love to get a GX4000 with 128KBthen just get yourself a 6128PLUS or an upgraded 464PLUS...
then just get yourself a 6128PLUS or an upgraded 464PLUS...
:picard:
then just get yourself a 6128PLUS or an upgraded 464PLUS...
:picard:
IIRC Piotr managed to fully CPC-ize a GX4000 motherboard with a lot of effort.
Well, if he only had such developers back then...?
This is now going off topic but I always thought Hewson games were good.
Hewson, Ocean,Elite and Gremlin were consistently good.
The others had a mix of quality.
Hi! Where can I buy the game or download it? Sorry for asking, but can't find it in the topic's posts. :)
Hi everyone ;D is there a release date or something of this game? I hope is finished before new year :)
Hi!
There is no release date yet (and before new year seems too soon), but we continue working to meet the expectations :)
Hi!
There is no release date yet (and before new year seems too soon), but we continue working to meet the expectations :)
We are also trying to contact the current owners of the game rights, in order to not have issues and be able to publish it.
We contacted Hewson Consultants (parents of 21 Century), which redirected us to Rebellion, which have not responded to us for now.
But on the other hand, we are not sure that Rebellion are the current owners of the rights. Does anyone know anything else?
Thanks!
We are also trying to contact the current owners of the game rights, in order to not have issues and be able to publish it.Have you tried DiCE direct? http://www.dice.se/about/
We contacted Hewson Consultants (parents of 21 Century), which redirected us to Rebellion, which have not responded to us for now.
But on the other hand, we are not sure that Rebellion are the current owners of the rights. Does anyone know anything else?
Thanks! I will ask DICE (nothing is lost by asking)
I also thought about asking the developers of the C64 version, since I read somewhere that they had obtained the permissions.
As far as I know, 21 Century sold the rights to Rebellion, but I do not know if they keep them. What I know is that it is hard to contact with Rebellion, I've tried it through several routes, web, Facebook, ... and they have not answer. That "lack of interest" could mean that they no longer have the rights ...
On the other hand, Cowboy Rodeo released iOS versions in 2011, but I have not found a trace of them to be able to ask.
On the other hand, Cowboy Rodeo released iOS versions in 2011, but I have not found a trace of them to be able to ask.
...and now, the four tables of the game :
[attachimg=1]
I got proved that a 464 can load tapes recorded at 6500 bauds.
i tested that on my 464, Turrican 2 intro part played in 1mn05, and each level took 20 seconds to load :)
Hello,News of the progress of the game with all the tables? ::)(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12369.0;attach=24331;image)
Is there a link to the most recent version?I think that this:
Hey Rhino,I'm sorry to answer so late, but I've been disconnected from the retro world for a while.
I'm amazed at this preview. I have a few questions, if the CPU use is only about 50% does this leave the possibility to have the songs using samples for 1 of 2 of the channels, perhaps using Arkos Tracker v2? I love the AY for some sounds (bass, drums etc) but sometimes the square wave is annoying for main melody channels! I was curious if any of the channels might have sampled sound?
Also I'm assuming this game will be a paid one, or at the very least you should setup a donation account for all the hard work gone into it?
Thanks,
Sice
Hey guys, you are not motivating me very much to finish it! hehePlease don’t say that! The demo you released showed how capable our CPC could be in the right hands. I’d love to see this reach completion especially given the C64 version is still AWOL!
Hey guys, you are not motivating me very much to finish it! hehe...hell no, I'm sure you will kick the shit (ups, ...permission) out of owner ass as soon as they see what you have done!
Ideas are not copywriteable. Execution, though, is. And 'design' is execution, so yes, you do.
Vacation for a proper pinball flipper game for our cpc.I really like wizzard pinball but i want to contribute to this cpc history somehow.One week for the team.contact me.Hiponiuos also desreves a week for this 2000e.Hponios contact me.Thank you very much, let us finish the game first and see if it meets expectations.
I contacted Rob Hewson, a very nice guy, who told me that the rights are currently held by Rebellion.
Who owns it now? 21st Century Entertainment or a successor?
21st Century Entertainment were the successor of Hewson, a company recently re-formed and making new games. It's now run by Andrew Hewson and his son.
Contacting the current owners of the rights (Rebellion) does not seem easy, they have ignored me in several attempts ... so it seems that they are in other issues.
Bloody fantastic news! Does this mean a physical release??We can't anticipate much info yet, as there's nothing closed yet, but if all goes well, seeing a current industry giant like Rebellion licensing a current release for CPC could be news that transcends not only the CPC scene, but the whole retro scene.
Played Pinball Dreams for hours on my Amiga 500 in the late 80s / early 90s.Wow! Were you a beta tester for the Amiga game? That must've been just so awesome!
Anyway, here's the soundtrack for PD-CPC... if you're interested...Tasteful sound chip mister! ;)
soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc (https://soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc)
EDIT: I am guessing the "downvote" on YOOTOOB is from the USA... from a German "banned from this forum" CPCer perhaps!
Great teaser.
21st Century was founded by former hewson members, wasn't it ?
I rather think that it is a C64 user :)Ha! Yeah! You're probably right! ^_^
Wow! Were you a beta tester for the Amiga game? That must've been just so awesome!No, I just forgot when I played it. I think it was probably mid 90s. I think maybe it was not before 1993 or so that I played the game.When was it released for the Amiga?
Anyway, here's the soundtrack for PD-CPC... if you're interested...
soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc (https://soundcloud.com/jonah-tasteful-mr-ship/sets/pinball-dreams-cpc)
EDIT: I am guessing the "downvote" on YOOTOOB is from the USA... from a German "banned from this forum" CPCer perhaps!
the game is going to reach perfection, that's great! 8)Thanks!
But the response of the keyboard usually has a delay in emulators that does not occur in the real hardware
To make the game as the original was necessary an immediate keyboard response, which requires not only that the game runs at 50 fps, but not to use techniques such as double buffer and that the time between reading the keyboard status and the user sees the response on screen is the minimum possible. But the response of the keyboard usually has a delay in emulators that does not occur in the real hardware (either by the management of the keyboard itself or if the emulator includes an internal double buffer), in others games this is hardly appreciated because fewer fps disguise the issue and it only involves moving 1 pixel more or less or a frame before or after, but, in PD hit the ball a frame before/after supposes that the ball angles are different and affect the aim.
2 cases with games with low fps:
It would be very interesting if someone could measure the actual latency on the CPC (in ms), in Basic and with optimized routines.
Most measurements were taken with the 240fps camera (4.167 ms resolution) in the iPhone SE. Devices with response times below 40 ms were re-measured with a 1000fps camera (1 ms resolution), the Sony RX100 V in PAL mode. Results in the tables are the results of multiple runs and are rounded to the nearest 10 ms to avoid the impression of false precision. For desktop results, results are measured from when the key started moving until the screen finished updating.
You nail it. One can be fully unaware of latency for years, and only understand it when seeing a paint-with-fingers application on a tablet.
This video shows practically importance of latency from 100ms (typical modern device) down to 1ms : https://youtu.be/vOvQCPLkPt4?t=52 (https://youtu.be/vOvQCPLkPt4?t=52)
See https://danluu.com/input-lag/ (https://danluu.com/input-lag/) for all details. The Apple 2e has hardware-based debouncing (capacitor,resistor) see https://danluu.com/input-lag/#appendix-apple-2-keyboard (https://danluu.com/input-lag/#appendix-apple-2-keyboard) .
I would expect the Amstrad CPC to appear in the table roughly at the same spot as the Commodore 64.
It would be very interesting if someone could measure the actual latency on the CPC (in ms), in Basic and with optimized routines.
2 cases with games with low fps:Also note that fps is not the only variable, if a game runs at 50 fps but uses double buffer, the keyboard response is applied first to the working screen buffer that will be visible in the next frame, so there is a delay of an additional frame in that case. Without double buffer the time between checking keys and visualization is, in theory, less than 20ms depending on which moment of the frame the keyboard status is read.
- 10 fps for game but 50fps for keyboard (AFAIK this does not exist) -> response is 20ms but display is delayed anyway
- 10 fps for game AND 10 fps for keyboard (dragon ninja, chaseHQ, ...) -> response is 100ms
high-fps game like pinball
- 50 fps for game and 50 fps for keyboard -> response is 20ms
Booh, the Soundcloud link is down :(It was a "teaser"! ^_^You will have to wait until the full game is released to hear the other tables' musics!
I'd just like to mention;
75% of the music was done by RAFT/TRSI.
24.9% of the music was done by McKlain.
0.1% of the music was done by me! ^_^
100% of the in-table sfx was done by RAFT/TRSI.
However, I have been playing this game for THREE YEARS (as an official tester) and I now totally hate it! ^_^
Major respects to everyone at BGGames and the external testers for their amazing work over the three years! You should be proud of what you have achieved here! We (me included) look forward to the official release! IT... LOOKS... AMAZING!
Hi All,Currently it is not compatible with M4 because it uses its own disk loader, maybe it would be possible to make a M4 version replacing the current loader with an exclusive one for M4.
Does anyone know if Pinball Dream preview works with the M4 Wifi Board? I just get a black screen on my standard 6128 (CRTC2)
Thanks
Mark
Currently it is not compatible with M4 because it uses its own disk loader, maybe it would be possible to make a M4 version replacing the current loader with an exclusive one for M4.
Currently it is not compatible with M4 because it uses its own disk loader, maybe it would be possible to make a M4 version replacing the current loader with an exclusive one for M4.Let me know if there is anything I can do to help it a long.
Let me know if there is anything I can do to help it a long.Thanks!
No system/firmware is needed for sector read/writing from/to a dsk image with M4, so if it can fit ie. a romdos .dsk image (~800 KB), that should be easy to make low level loader for.
But why track/sector-loading? Why not a mass storage-friendly solution?May be, because the CPC is originaly a computer using a floppy disc drive? ;D
But why track/sector-loading? Why not a mass storage-friendly solution?Track/sector is the classic method of loading faster and get more capacity on disks, as well as flexibility to make better use of memory and other advantages such as being able to play music while loading.
i guess Chany will do the XMEM version ;DI though the same while I wrote my answer. :laugh:
Please stay with discs, thats the native medium of the CPC (aside of tapes.... but brrr no!). So please don't expect that everybody is owning and using (predominantly) mass-storage solutions. Actually the only one working is the M4 card anyway. Even it over 500 (I guess) were sold there may be still people preferring real discs.Thanks!,
About the format, use a 3.5" and you can get up to 700-800 KB. IMHO for a flipper that's enough. It doesn't use streaming VIds or so.
I'm looking forward to a nice an polished release. :) :) :)
Please stay with discs, thats the native medium of the CPC (aside of tapes.... but brrr no!). So please don't expect that everybody is owning and using (predominantly) mass-storage solutions. Actually the only one working is the M4 card anyway. Even it over 500 (I guess) were sold there may be still people preferring real discs.
Yes, I think the disk version is mandatory, but alternative versions so that more people can run it on real hardware
it is also very attractive a global records table that increases competition between players from around the world.I presume the "online leaderboard" will not be assessible to development/evaluation personnel!
I don’t think the discussion is whether to release the games on disk or not, but to use a format that allows them to run from mass storage devices.Better to be clear about a floppy version, as the subject has not been addressed while games are published on alternate media such as cartridges.. The format to run on mass storage devices is obvious: files into a folder (like on PC) and currently it looks to be not an option for this game but only an alternate solution to mount a DSK with the M4 from its SD card.
For me having to search for the external drive and its psu makes almost impossible to play a game given my limited time to do so. In that case, I’ll play on an emulator, but then again I’ll miss the real experience.What are you using? I ask because it may be of interest to software makers. :)
An external 3.5" disk drive, that of course need its own psu.
I'd be happy having a physical disk edition, but for playing I would prefer to have it M4 compatible.
I presume the "online leaderboard" will not be assessible to development/evaluation personnel!hehe, well, maybe you'll find a rival worthy of you :)
I can max-out the score on all four tables, so will be constantly on the top of that leaderboard! ^_^
Nobody suggested a pysical edition... people are suggesting to have standard DSK file containing the game.
Sure, there could be a "M4 installer version" that unpacks the DSK content onto mass storage on the M4.
But requires hardware driver...
The DSK file you put into your Flash Floppy Gotek or HxC or DDI3.
You can also (try to) mount a DSK file from your M4, but most standard DSK files don't work with the M4. Maybe a special M4 compatible DSK file for the game will do?
For the PSU, you don't need one. Even my 6128 doesn't get 12 V anymore, and the Flash Floppy Gotek gets its power from John's @ikonsgr (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=541) y cable 5 V to MOLEX splitter...
Never had a single drive error with my Gotek
That's a thing I like about the new cartridge formats, they are literally Plug'n'Play :DPeoples unliked the same idea 5 years ago. So much time lost! ;D
Peoples unliked the same idea 5 years ago. So much time lost! ;D
hehe, well, maybe you'll find a rival worthy of you :)Maybe in two years of constant play! ^_^
Maybe in two years of constant play! ^_^I just hope the rest of us get a chance to try 😔
I hope the rest of us get a chance to buy the gameRhino has already said it's a free game; I'd question anyone charging real-world monies for it! ^_^
Rhino has already said it's a free game; I'd question anyone charging real-world monies for it! ^_^
Rhino has already said it's a free game; I'd question anyone charging real-world monies for it! ^_^
On behalf of all Batman Group members, we would like to express our sincere thanks to SuTeKH/Epyteor for his great work on the soundtrack, as well as testing and involvement in the whole project. There have been several years of tireless collaboration in which we were not only surprised by the immense quality of his work, but the dedication and enthusiasm with which always encouraged us to finish the project.Thank you, Rhino, for those gracious words, but McKlain devised ALL of the "intro instruments" that produced the "intro", "menu" and "selection" tunes (with a LOT of help from RaFT/TRSI!)
We hope Pinball Dreams will only be the first of more projects we can have the pleasure of working with him on, as well as the rest of the collaborators. In them is the true spirit that makes the CPC scene so great!
Thank you, Rhino, for those gracious words, but McKlain devised ALL of the "intro instruments" that produced the "intro", "menu" and "selection" tunes (with a LOT of help from RaFT/TRSI!)Great!, because we're finishing up a showable preview of our next BG project and it'll be good to have you. We'll soon announce it.
RaFT/TRSI devised ALL of the table instruments and ALL of the table SFXs. The only thing I did was copy Olof Gustaffson's (Blaizer/TSL) notes from the Amiga modules (freely downloadable from AMP)... note by note! RaFT/TRSI then corrected the notes and volumes for everything making what I did sound correct on a REAL Amstrad CPC!
My contribution to this "mammoth 8-Bit project" was small, but rewarding, and I am honoured that Rhino wanted me to be a part of the whole PINBALL DREAMS process and, yes, I would be more than happy to help (especially with testing) for any/all BGGames projects in the future!
I think if any physical version were to be released, then Rebellion would probably want some of the profits.Well, if somone can put it onto a real 3" disc for me (naturally I'd supply the disc and return postage), I'd be very thankful.
...and the Plus version :A very faithful result to the original! Using the plus cartridge the boards could be 320 pixels wide instead of 256 and use sprites to add more colors and resolution to some parts, which visually could be even better.
I kept seeing it run on a cpc at Revision... Arrrrrrggghhhh.Well I kept *playing* it at Revision :). Very good game indeed :).
Well I kept *playing* it at Revision :). Very good game indeed :).I mean you could clearly see it on the twitch stream.... Very kewl! (Sir Garbage) Truck mentioned it a couple of times in commentary too.
Well I kept *playing* it at Revision :) . Very good game indeed :) .Thanks! Btw, do you know if anyone's gonna do a party review/report? I found the revival of the Amiga scene particularly interesting, or at least the competition was very lively.
And congratulations on the Third Kind award! Very impressive!I only did the sound effects, the hardest work was provided by Hicks and Beb!
Any more news on a release date? I kept seeing it run on a cpc at Revision... Arrrrrrggghhhh.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
I keep checking to see if there is any news myself. ::)Aren't we all, Phantomz, aren't we all!
Looking forward to playing it. ;D
Any more news on a release date? I kept seeing it run on a cpc at Revision... Arrrrrrggghhhh.There is no news yet, but seeing what happened with Super Mario on C64, we will have to keep waiting...
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Aren't we all, Phantomz, aren't we all!Very jealous they let Xyphoe and Novabug review it..
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Still no news ?Hi!The matter is at a standstill during the summer holidays, but we hope that shortly afterwards we will be able to announce some news.
Here is a Plus version of the intro gfx, just to bump this thread :)
Seriously though, it's great to hear this is finally going to be released to the community!
A huge congratulations to all the developers and testers; this is truly an 8-bit masterpiece! And, finally, thanks for putting up with my alcoholic ramblings and rantings over the past three or so years!
What if... BG Games are actually releasing a different game? Is there anywhere in that video that explicitly states they are going to release Pinball Dreams? ::)
You think they'd troll us like that with that soundtrack?
What if... BG Games are actually releasing a different game? Is there anywhere in that video that explicitly states they are going to release Pinball Dreams? ::)Is there anything in my original post that explicitly states they are going to release Pinball Dreams? ::)
I don't think he was replying specifically to your post tho...This is always a possibility, yes! But, my post was quoted, so...
F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5F5
However, come the 1st of October, BG Games could unveil... a platform game based around the Mario demo that @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) previewed a couple of years ago?!Do we have a link (for somebody having no facebook, twitter...)?
Do we have a link (for somebody having no facebook, twitter...)?
Sadly I can't, but hope for a Youtube Vid later on. :)
Sadly I can't, but hope for a Youtube Vid later on. :)with subtitles maybe :P
Congratulations!
I'll play on my CPC this weekend. I think on emulators the input lag is quite noticeable.
Is it possible to run on CPC 464 and SF3 card? I am getting the message that 128K is required...
*CPC 464 select external RAM hack
CPC464=TOTO
Did I miss something? Where is it mentioned it's not licensed?
Oops yes, I missed a whole page of posts. Nevermind.
Thanks to all, fellas!Typically, I'm at my old man's for his birthday and my 6128 Plus (with Gotek) is 100 miles away so I'm trying to use WinAPE to try it out.. But what I've seen so far, I really like.
I hope you have fun and make good scores!
I scored 5 millions at nightmare ! ;)
Perfect.
EDIT : i scored 20 millions at steel wheel !
:P
I managed 66314731 on the Nightmare table :DOk i lost.
I managed 66314731 on the Nightmare table :DAnybody up reach 100 million? :D
Hi, thanks for the release.I have one question. Is the Plus version somewhat included or this release contains only normal version?We haven't made a special version for the plus, sorry.
Amazingly (for me) I've hit the 100 million mark - 144,971,756! So kinda had to share this, athough if you get the super jackpot it's not too difficult to score highly on Nightmare. Still.....
We haven't made a special version for the plus, sorry.Kind of you already unlocked the Plus features for the CPC already. Smooth scrolling, smooth sprites. Nice sound, great colors. Maybe a Plus version would only add few new features. If this game runs on a Plus, probably lot's of people would say "Look, it only works with the Plus", but it's for CPC. :)
@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174); is there going to be an online leaderboard for M4 owners? It would be great to see Amstrad players battling for top spot! ^_^We were thinking about doing it, but possible hacking and the loss of records could upset people, so in the end we did not.
Typically, I'm at my old man's for his birthday and my 6128 Plus (with Gotek) is 100 miles away so I'm trying to use WinAPE to try it out.. But what I've seen so far, I really like.
The Amiga's got a 4096-colour palette to choose from, so there's no need for them to go all-or-nothing on saturation. The CPC, on the other hand... :P
Converting a few loading screens is one thing, to convert the full game is quite another. Why not shots of the actual game?
Time will tell. But we're used to big promises, a few screen shots, and then nothing happening sadly.
Look at this idiot who has to eat his words!
That kind of color choice is very typical in many Megadrive games too, yep. Sonic series is a great example, but there are many many others :) .The colours are flashy because the RGB palette bit-depth. It is more a no choice than a choice, on Megadrive too (8 red, 8 green, 8 blue) because it was limited to 512 instead of 4096 shades of colours to save the internal CRAM and embed the SMS retro-compatibility (display and sound) instead. >:(
The colours are flashy because the RGB palette bit-depth. It is more a no choice than a choice, on Megadrive too (8 red, 8 green, 8 blue) because it was limited to 512 instead of 4096 shades of colours to save the internal CRAM and embed the SMS retro-compatibility (display and sound) instead. >:(
MD2 had a 12bit palette and guess what, no one utilized it ;DI doubt about that. Only 9bit palette too, sadly.
Compatibility issues would be devastating for old users.And as far as I remember by reading a magazine, it also had an extra chip. Dunno if this was just a rumor and can't remember what it could do.9bit on MD are ---- -bbb -ggg -rrr and a compatible 12bit is ---- bbbb gggg rrrr so no compatibility problems for old games I think.
You must do a public apology video on your channel, Bill Clinton style :P :P
Look at this idiot who has to eat his words!
The colours are flashy because the RGB palette bit-depth. It is more a no choice than a choice, on Megadrive too (8 red, 8 green, 8 blue) because it was limited to 512 instead of 4096 shades of colours to save the internal CRAM and embed the SMS retro-compatibility (display and sound) instead. >:(
We are not speaking about the same thing. :-\ ;)
Yeaaaah to the flashy colours! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Meeeehhh to the plus colours and shades in brown and grey. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Thats how I feel. Do anyone agree?
We are not speaking about the same thing. :-\ ;)
I'd like to ask @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) about the BG logo animation at the beginning, as I'm mesmerized by how fluent it is.
It reminds me a little of the spinning Batman logo from the Batman Forever demo, only that one didn't scale its size on the fly. I guess a similar technique is used?
Two friends keep asking me this since it was released.
I told them that this is pure sorcery...
You must do a public apology video on your channel, Bill Clinton style :P :P
The colours are flashy because the RGB palette bit-depth.
Important to note that when played on a CRT the colours are far less garish as the case with all CPC games. And the game makes the point at least twice that original hardware is needed. Which presumably also means a CRT as well.
My monitors are modern CRT TV so the colors are still flashy with a good contrast (and i like it ;D )
Important to note that when played on a CRT the colours are far less garish as the case with all CPC games. And the game makes the point at least twice that original hardware is needed. Which presumably also means a CRT as well.
Thursday night!
Or at least make sure you get all 50 fps. In my experience a plain scart cable doesn't do this on a LED screen for some reason, though people tells me it should, I'm just not seeing it.
Captured at 50fps, I have one frame of CPC animation for every frame captured. So as far as that goes I'm good.
Just to add to what VincentGR said that I have to admit that there were times when I also had doubts about the feasibility of the project, so I think your reaction was natural and sincere, which is something to be thankful for :)
A man who admits something is a true man not an idiot.
I'd like to ask @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) about the BG logo animation at the beginning, as I'm mesmerized by how fluent it is.You could say it's our old CRTC running some 3D CRTC-FX hehe :D
Just released this.
I'd love to know what your rationale is for stating that the CPC has no hardware scrolling (fast forward to 3:31 in the video). ::)
EDIT: Immediately after posting this, I noticed the video response below from @chinnyhill10 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=984) on YouTube. I am not convinced by his arguments.
As regards Pinball Dreams, why I am trying to say is "The laws of aerodynamics say the bumblebee cannot fly, but it can."Turns out, the Bumblebee is not breaking any physics law, it's just people didn't understand what was happening there...
There you go on the real beast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCA6psxb-7U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCA6psxb-7U)
Nobody on a C64 ever had to write their own scrolling routine did they?Sorry Chinny, they did write their own routines and indeed still do because the C64's hardware scrolling isn't really what you think it is... there are "undocumented features" in the VIC-II discovered by demo coders which can be (ab)used to scroll the screen in a hurry but they're not commonly used in games - Mayhem In Monsterland or the Fred's Back series are relatively rare examples of VSP and AGSP scrolling respectively - and the two hardware scroll registers only move the playfield a distance of eight pixels before the programmer's code has to get involved to shunt memory about.
However, most people's definition of hardware scrolling at the time meant something that would allow for smooth pixel based scrolling. In that regard the CPC really doesn't qualify, it's display was more oriented around scrolling a screen full of text - which it can do incredibly well.
I was quite surprised by how limited the C64 hardware assistance was. There was pixel shifting and you could move the display in RAM to help, but the colour memory is fixed and takes more than a frame for the CPU to shift that much data.
Isn't it fair to say the vertical scrolling used for Mission Genocide or Warhawk (or Pinball Dreams for that matter...!) is pixel accurate though...?By that point you're well into the realm of CRTC tricks though. It's messing with display timings to physically shift the position of the display on screen. Not really using intended functionality.
By that point you're well into the realm of CRTC tricks though. It's messing with display timings to physically shift the position of the display on screen. Not really using intended functionality.I still hold that hardware scrolling is literally just scrolling being primarily handled by the hardware in some way, otherwise we get into a slightly silly situation where most of the machines previously declared as having "hardware scrolling" actually don't just because the term was ambiguous; the C64 and 264 series have hardware fine scrolling (there are tricks to do more in both cases but they're not officially documented as such or intended functionality) and the BBC Micro or Amstrad CPC have hardware coarse scrolling which further unintended register (ab)use or clever buffering can smooth up.
Just released this.Thank you very much for the great review! I really appreciate all the love and technical editing work you put into your videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUXfN8_hJ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUXfN8_hJ4)
If I understood this correctly, the BG had more than 8.000 downloads of PD until now. :o :o :oYes, over 8000 downloads in the first 10 days (only counting the ones downloaded from our server). We really didn't expect that much!
I still hold that hardware scrolling is literally just scrolling being primarily handled by the hardware in some way, otherwise we get into a slightly silly situation where most of the machines previously declared as having "hardware scrolling" actually don't just because the term was ambiguous; the C64 and 264 series have hardware fine scrolling (there are tricks to do more in both cases but they're not officially documented as such or intended functionality) and the BBC Micro or Amstrad CPC have hardware coarse scrolling which further unintended register (ab)use or clever buffering can smooth up.Oh I do and entirely agree with what you're saying. But I can see Chinny's point that, in laymans terms at least, the C64 and Amiga had "hardware scrolling" - as in hardware dedicated to making the kinds of smooth scrolling seen in games possible to some degree, wheras computers like the CPC didn't, even if the hardware they did have was flexible enough that it could be pushed into doing things that weren't quite as intended. Which argument makes most sense to people is one of semantics and how strictly accurate you want to be.
The only 8-bit computers I can think of right now with both coarse and fine hardware scrolling "out of the box" are the CPC Plus, the Commodore 128's 80 column display and the Atari 8-bit with only one predating the CPC but, since Atari's official documentation didn't come out until around two years after the machine itself, there's a potential question mark there as to if self modifying code overwriting the display lists' LMS commands counts as intended functionality or an unintended side effect that was later adopted. And yes, I'm playing Devil's advocaat there, but hopefully you see the point I'm rather clumsily making?
Oh I do and entirely agree with what you're saying. But I can see Chinny's point that, in laymans terms at least, the C64 and Amiga had "hardware scrolling" - as in hardware dedicated to making the kinds of smooth scrolling seen in games possible to some degree, wheras computers like the CPC didn't, even if the hardware they did have was flexible enough that it could be pushed into doing things that weren't quite as intended. Which argument makes most sense to people is one of semantics and how strictly accurate you want to be.
Oh I do and entirely agree with what you're saying. But I can see Chinny's point that, in laymans terms at least, the C64 and Amiga had "hardware scrolling" - as in hardware dedicated to making the kinds of smooth scrolling seen in games possible to some degree, wheras computers like the CPC didn'tIt's not that I don't get that point, just that I find it uncomfortable to let the layman's version of the term slide without challenging it. If nothing else Chinny's understanding of what the C64 is doing seems to be off if he thinks nobody writes scroll routines, that seriously undersells what games like Turrican 2 are doing.
To make it simple:Add a similar caveat to the C64 about it being able to do coarse scrolling with clever programming - that's what Mayhem In Monsterland or the C64 preview of PD are doing - and bingo...
The ZX Spectrum doesn't have hardware scrolling
The Amstrad CPC has rough hardware scrolling but with clever programming it can do fine hardware scrolling too
The C64 has fine hardware scrolling
It's not that I don't get that point, just that I find it uncomfortable to let the layman's version of the term slide without challenging it. If nothing else Chinny's understanding of what the C64 is doing seems to be off if he thinks nobody writes scroll routines, that seriously undersells what games like Turrican 2 are doing.There is nothing to be sorry about, debates are good and I think the knowledge you bring about the C64 is very interesting.
Add a similar caveat to the C64 about it being able to do coarse scrolling with clever programming - that's what Mayhem In Monsterland or the C64 preview of PD are doing - and bingo...
This thread derailing is starting to make me feel uncomfortable, so sorry to Rhino and BG Games for sticking my oar in like this, sorry to Chinny because I like you and love what you do and for anyone else affected by the points raised in my posts, a helpline is available... or just tell me to bog off, either or. =-)
Hello
Is it planned to release a cartridge version ?
That's mainly because I no longer use the floppy on my 6128+ (in fact, it's not even working), but the famous C4CPC.
And also because I would like to test it on my Raspberry pi 6128+ emulator....
Anyway, great work, it's awesome !
You have a CPC Plus Cartridge Port on your Raspberry PI Emulator?? ???
Can you share details please?
Syx point me to the Amstrad Basic itself, because it uses the hardware scroll capabilities when displacing the screen while listing a program.
But as I said before, the math is there. The CPC cannot do a scroll like Pinball Dreams without hardware assistance, and that is not witchcraft, it’s hardware scrolling.
I'm still loving Pinball Dreams but I'm greedy and always want more.
There is nothing to be sorry about, debates are good and I think the knowledge you bring about the C64 is very interesting.
A fine intra-character horizontal scroll/delay (+ additional border-blanking support) would have had to be implemented in the video gate array. Which would have required a more capable gate array, which means more cost, and we know what Mr Sugar's opinion on costs were.I rather think it has to with time and the intended use of the machine. It's not like Amstrad expected to sell millions of these machines.
Many 8-bit smooth hardware scrolls are a combination of coarse and fine scrolling.Consoles maybe, but computers? The Amstrad plus computerrs have both. Any more 8 bit computers?
Yeah, but it's coarse hardware scrolling, by character.That's the thing, just using the term "hardware scrolling" doesn't specify if it's coarse, fine or a combination of the two so it can be either or both.
Consoles maybe, but computers? The Amstrad plus computerrs have both. Any more 8 bit computers?After the Plus series I can only think of two more; the Commodore 128's 80 column VDC display (all documented from the C128 PRG) and the Atari 8-bits, although Atari didn't release any official documentation for a couple of years so there's a Devil's advocaat question mark over if self modifying of a display list's LMS commands counts as a deliberate feature in the same way that vertical smooth scrolling on the CPC is up for debate.
MSX, and Enterprise maybe?Not on the original models of MSX no, it doesn't have hardware-powered fine scrolling - a lot of games famously move their scrolling backgrounds a tile at a time - and coarse scrolling is being done by the Z80 too. From what I've read just now, the MSX gained fine vertical scrolling and what looks like coarse scrolling with the MSX2 and it gets the full set with the addition of fine horizontal hardware scrolling in 1988 with the MSX2+ in 1988 so that model and the later Turbo R which has the same video hardware are both a yes.
HelloThanks!
Is it planned to release a cartridge version ?
That's mainly because I no longer use the floppy on my 6128+ (in fact, it's not even working), but the famous C4CPC.
And also because I would like to test it on my Raspberry pi 6128+ emulator....
Anyway, great work, it's awesome !
I'm still loving Pinball Dreams but I'm greedy and always want more. Would Pinball Fantasies be out of the question in the future? I know the tables are taller so perhaps memory might be an issue and there are additional flippers further up the tables at different angles which I guess may cause some difficulties....I believe Pinball Fantasies would be a good candidate to do it on cartridge so as to be able to include largest boards and the scoreboard animations.
Still, is it technically feasible?
Pinball Fantasies ... able to include largest boards@Rhino By "largest boards", do you have in mind "wider boards" to achieve plain full-screen (cf. R1=48) ? Such improvement would push the envelope even further !
@Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) By "largest boards", do you have in mind "wider boards" to achieve plain full-screen (cf. R1=48) ? Such improvement would push the envelope even further !Well, I think it could be 384 pixels wide using almost all the first 64kb for video, but you'd see a very small portion of the table compared to the total and that's not good for gameplay, I think 320 pixels wide as the Amiga original would be more suitable.
Those physical copies look awesome! I understand that the game won´t be sold at all, right? These are just gifts for a few ones. I am asking because it would be great to be able to buy them :DWe've reserved some copies for tournaments and draws, so it's still possible to get some one.
https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1196051966859862017 (https://twitter.com/BATMAN_GROUP/status/1196051966859862017)
Pinball Dreams CPC reaches 12,000 downloads in the first month!
And to celebrate we have made a very limited physical edition to gift in gratitude to collaborators and friends who supported us during the development.
Thanks!
I understand the gesture but if you press like 1000 times it undoes your like. Now 1001 times...
I have pressed like, but I would have pressed like a thousand times if I could have bought this... Looks great
I understand the gesture but if you press like 1000 times it undoes your like. Now 1001 times...'
But yeah this package looks great, it would have been nice to buy it.
We've reserved some copies for tournaments and draws, so it's still possible to get some one.Hahaha, maybe for somebody that is not me! :laugh: I love Pinbal Dreams like crazy, and videogames in general. However, I have never been a good player, quite the opposite I am afraid. People used to finish Bloodborne at level 90 and I leveled up to 160 to be able to beat it... :picard2: .
Pinball Dreams is so stunning and inspiring that it drove me back to improving CPCEC. I went from this...Thanks!
(http://cngsoft.no-ip.org/IMAGE_2019-11-16_01-19-08.PNG)
...to this...
(http://cngsoft.no-ip.org/IMAGE_2019-11-16_11-22-08.PNG)
...in a night's work! CRTC 1 only, however; CRTC types 0, 2, 3 and 4 will have to keep waiting :-( My most sincere congratulations to the authors for the 12000 downloads (and rising!)
Pinball Dreams has been reviewed in the latest issue of Retro Gamer (issue 201), and it received a rating of (drum roll)...
Congratulations to @Rhino (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=174) and everyone else who contributed to the development of the game! :D
How much space did they give it?
Eh, just read the RG review. I feel it was somewhat underwhelming-although the score is very high, it doesn't really mention why it's such an incredible feat...
... it doesn't really mention why it's such an incredible feat...I have a question, then. Why do you believe it is an incredible feat? I'm not addressing Gryzor in particular; would be interesting to read a few opinions... :)
I have a question, then. Why do you believe it is an incredible feat? I'm not addressing Gryzor in particular; would be interesting to read a few opinions... :)... because it is, simply, the best game EVER on Amstrad CPC!
... because it is, simply, the best game EVER on Amstrad CPC!
Except, perhaps, for the music! ^_^
or the brown one.
I have a question, then. Why do you believe it is an incredible feat? I'm not addressing Gryzor in particular; would be interesting to read a few opinions... :)
rb
-In hindsight, is there anything you would have done differently?
- Sure! I would reorganise collision codes to include more variety of materials and I would try to improve the physics, I even think we’d do it for the new cartridge support, which would allow for larger graphics and more accurate collision tables.
As far as I remember, when hitting space to tilt, I could do this at least 2 times in a row in Pinball Fantasies without the game tilting.AFAIR : Pinball Fantasies (Amiga) -> 3 x space = tilt / Pinball Dreams (Amiga) -> 2 x space = tilt
But in Pinball Dreams on the CPC the game tilts if I hit space twice. This makes it somewhat difficult to "rescue" the ball when it's on its way out.
So is this a flaw in the CPC version or was the Amiga version the same way?
Could anybody help me get this working please? I can get as far as the welcome screen but no further https://photos.app.goo.gl/932ebQigNJC69RwGA (https://photos.app.goo.gl/932ebQigNJC69RwGA)
No button on the CPC starts the game and the joystick doesn't either. If I leave it a whiile nothing happens either.This is on a 464 with M4 board and Zaxxon 512kb RAM card. I've tried changing the lowerrom to the 6128 version as well as basic 1.1. I've tried 2 different downloads as well as the 3 inch, 3.5 inch and M4 dsks. It's seeing the extra ram as it gives a "128k only" error of I turn it off. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
IS anyone has succeeded to transfert game to Real 3" with a cpc ?I'm trying with gothek on drive b with discology but it don't work.Seams difficult to write 10 sector per track...The same problem exist with R-Type only on Amstrad Plus, not on CPC. Is-it your case?
Yes on 6128+. Do you think it's on writing with plus or on read ?The Plus drive has an "error" which does happen 1/3 down to 1/7 of the times. The problem it that you can write an sector and immediately after that you tell the FDC to move the head. Sometimes it messes up the track register of the FDC. That means physically the head is on another track than the FDC does assume. Here only the Recalibrate command will help.
Ok thanks, so the only solution is to make a files version of pinball dreams...In this case, better to have a ROM version...