What New Game do you want developed for the Amstrad if the option was there?

[Joseman]

nowadays i think that almost everybody has a 128k base machine and about a 70%- 80% have 512k and, 30%-40% mass storage solution.

[Joseman]

I think that a lot of people knows one game, and i almost forgot of mention it!!.

For me is one of the best driving racing game, and, one game that perhaps is a good option besides out run.

If you played it, then you know what i talking about, if not, please, see youtube videos or better, play on any emulator.

I don't think that  any IP/license will be a problem because his name is a brand car name and, the publisher I think that is no longer alive: Gremlin Graphics.

The game is:

LOTUS III - THE ULTIMATE CHALLENGE.

One video better than 1000 words:

! No longer available



I will go for this game, and pay for it without a doubt!!!

[arnoldemu]

Listen to Brian. He is certainly qualified. He has both the experience and knowledge about this.



From my experience I would say this:

* Target 64KB or 128KB depending on what you prefer. 128KB is a very good machine to target. I target 64KB if I can, but 128KB if I know the project will not fit.

* Try not to think too big if it's a first project because it can easily become overwhelming to get it finished. For example, the number of tasks is so much, the amount of debugging needed, the amount of code, the amount of graphics and sound AND the amount of coordination between team members. You need a "thick skin" and the ability to finish it regardless of if you have got bored or sick of it. I got sick of Sudoku after making my CPC Sudoku game.

* Be prepared that you may not want to play the game yourself when it's done, but others will enjoy it a lot. Same with Sudoku, I've not played my own game. When I finished it, I was relieved and I never felt I wanted to play it again. I had played it so much during development and debugging that I had enough !

* A project always takes longer than you think. There are so many things that you can't plan for. For example, cutting it back to fit into ram or onto the media. Needing to write tools to create the final game dsk etc. Tools to compress things exactly how you need. Tools to convert graphics, tools to organise your data.

* USE SOURCE CONTROL. It doesn't matter if you use subversion, perforce, fossil.. But using some form of source control is THAT important. It gives the freedom to make changes, back them out, try ideas etc. I will repeat USE SOURCE CONTROL. Many times I lost a specific version of the code, or I broke it and it took days to go back to a working version. With source control, you can have different versions of the code, try things out and merge them when you're happy.

* cross compiling is much better than using real CPC for development. It's faster, you can use emulators to debug much quicker, you can use pc editing tools and source control. It takes seconds to make a build you can test, on real CPC it could take much longer.

NOTE: Modern game developers don't write the games on the target hardware! They compile on a PC and transfer it to the real hardware. They often write a load of AI etc on the PC and run it on the PC, then go to the real hardware and check and debug it there.

* ALWAYS test on REAL hardware. Emulators are not 100% accurate. None of them are. There is always something which is a little bit different. MOST important if you are using demo techniques to make smoother hardware scrolling etc.

* ALWAYS test on multiple REAL hardware configurations. Test on multiple CRTCs, test on green and colour monitors, test on 3.5" disc, 3" disc and with various ROM expansions connected just in case ONE will break your game. One user will say "it doesn't work on X configuration". This last part is useful if you want people to run your game who have the minimum spec but with additional connected hardware. Think of the hassle of having to disable and remove hardware to play your game!

* Doing a simple game will take a few months. A big game will probably take about a year or a bit more.

[arnoldemu]

Gremlin may not be trading, but the rights to Gremlin games are still held and protected.

In addition Lotus will probably protect their logo and use of their name.

If you want to make a game, Brian is completely correct. Don't infringe on IP.

Write a similar game, but with cars that look different and don't use any names of companies alive or closed. If you want to race it around a known circuit, you need to alter it slightly so it's not identical.



For example, with Outrun, Sega lost the rights (or the rights expired) to use the Ferrari brand, so they had to change the car a little in their later re-releases of the game. But because they owned the Outrun brand they could keep the rest the same.

I'm not sure what the legalities are on remakes, e.g. to take Outrun on CPC and make it better. It may be considered fan work, it may not.

[AMSDOS]

* Doing a simple game will take a few months. A big game will probably take about a year or a bit more.

Probably what you write it in can depend on Timeframe as well.


Perhaps not relevant to here but Steve Lucas & his 464 was packing out heaps of Text Adventure games in 1984/85/86 as well as some other kid games.
The bulk was Adventure Games, he must of had knocked up an Adventure Game engine in little time given some of that stuff came out after the launch of the 464, though you'd have to be very quick to write up the scripts for those games, either that or that guy had plenty of time on his hands.

[Lazy Dude]

I'd say poll the platform, 64k, 128k etc... see the results

then poll the game but be flexible, so a specific title to vote for can tell you the game category, general synopsis etc that you would hope for. but the actual project would not be a true remake/ copy reboot. Best to be original in the actual game its self

[Gryzor]

For me, a Tower Defense or an infinite runner game...

[robcfg]

Maybe the Canabalt version we were talking some time ago...


C'mon! Even the Atari 2600 got one!

[Puresox]

Tower Defense game !

[Puresox]

If you want any additions to the Poll let us know and I will adapt it to suit.
Advise to use one vote for game and one for Memory limitations. You can do whatever you like though lol ,

[Brian Beuken]

Does anyone remember a game called Nether Earth? It was written by Icon Design, when I was there, and I always loved it, it was a kind of very early precursor to modern RTS games... I'd love to see a game like that using the freedom that 512K gives.

[Brian Beuken]

I don't think that  any IP/license will be a problem because his name is a brand car name and, the publisher I think that is no longer alive: Gremlin Graphics.

The game is:

LOTUS III - THE ULTIMATE CHALLENGE.

ummmmm you seem to totally misunderstand the concept of IP, which includes BRAND name... Gremlin paid Lotus, to use the name and logo... Lotus, will not let anyone else use their name or logo without approval which normally requires a license fee, in their case several 10's even 100's of thousands of pounds.

Gremlin themselves are not actually dead, they simple no longer trade, but their brand and all their IP rights are owned by what now remains of Infogrammes, who make their money now, not from making games...but from selling their IP and collecting royalties from people who use them.

If its a recognisable name, brand, trademark, specific gameplay feature which is patented (for example Sega own the concept of ghost cars and you have to pay them if you use ghost cars in a racing game) then you cannot use it... its sad and annoying but this is how the commercial world work.

There is, admittedly some abuse of the system in the fan world, since its usually not worth anyone's time to chase after piffling amounts of money that might be generated by someone doing their own version of Super Lotus vs Ferrari  R-type...but if they want to stop you doing it they can...with nothing more than a legal letter, then all your hard work is lost and you can face a hefty legal cost.

[Puresox]

Does anyone remember a game called Nether Earth? It was written by Icon Design, when I was there, and I always loved it, it was a kind of very early precursor to modern RTS games... I'd love to see a game like that using the freedom that 512K gives.

Yeah I remember that game  and I thought it was brilliant, love the idea of constructing your own robots, any game that has that involved is great fun. The only issue I had with Nether Earth was it was on the slow side , but just about bearable.

[tastefulmrship]

Then why not start with a TA or Warcraft2 clone? Make it different enough to be a different game, obviously, but have the same immense gameplay and balance that made those two games the best in their genre. How about a mix of the two; a Warcraft2 clone with the "ages" from Civilisation? Start in the middle ages and grow (via missions) until your into modern/future technology!

Just a thought.

[TFM]

If you want any additions to the Poll let us know and I will adapt it to suit.

Can you please add, Giana Sisters, Mario Brothers, Mutant Camels and RPG? 


EDIT: Thanks! That was instant! 

[TFM]

Then why not start with a TA or Warcraft2 clone? Make it different enough to be a different game, obviously, but have the same immense gameplay and balance that made those two games the best in their genre. How about a mix of the two; a Warcraft2 clone with the "ages" from Civilisation? Start in the middle ages and grow (via missions) until your into modern/future technology!

Just a thought.

About what are you dreaming during the nights then? Well, such a project would need a dozen or more coders which really dedicate all their spare time in such a giant project. If would runs smooth only on the 'high end' CPCs and not on 464 (unexpanded).
The management of such a team is very important too. One would need clean defined interfaces and a team prone to struggles and the dark side of the 'human factor'.
One couldn't just start coding. It would be a prerequisite to make a clear plan how this game works.
A year of planning and about 3-5 coding / GFX / Sounds / Songs is the ideal timing, but it may take longer.


The idea it great, but I don't see it coming up now. Most of people are busy finishing own projects anyway. But it would be a nice dream for some future day.

[Puresox]

Can you please add, Giana Sisters, Mario Brothers, Mutant Camels and RPG? 


EDIT: Thanks! That was instant! 

I'm wired up.

[Brian Beuken]

So can I butt in again with another observation.......
I know we all love our CPC's but on a technical level, they are utterly appalling machines, very very slow Z80 CPU's, a basic android/IOS tablet is nearly 3500 times more powerful  and has graphic chips to support it.. We have a Z80 and memory.......oh and a sound chip

a Z80 can do
0.58 MIPS at 4 MHz . The CPC is actually effectively a 3.3Mhz chip...due to screen sharing timing hardware.

an ARM A8 such as found in Ipad and Android tablets...
ARM Cortex-A8 2,000 MIPS at 1.0 GHz

that nearly 3500 times faster........3500....think about that. You don't see world of Warcraft on an Ipad...do you? There's a reason, processing all the info in a game like WoW is a major eater of instruction time, our 0.58mips won't cut it.

So while having more memory gives us more room for scope, it does not give us any more processing power, a 4Mhz Z80 is horribly useless at parsing 1000's of NPC's 50 frames a seconds..it could barely managed 20 or so, never mind trying to draw them....which the CPU has to do as well..
This is why the CPC was a slower machine than the Spectrum, more screen memory means more instruction used to shift data around for drawing and less time for data processing.

Its nice to think anything is possible, but there are serious technical limits. Expanded RAM means we can have more graphics, that can mean better animation, less decompressing, simpler sprite draws, pre-scrolled/rotated  graphics,  more sound, bigger playfields, but it won't let us process multitudes more data.

its an interesting discussion, but lets try to be realistic?

[Puresox]

The Game 'Dead on Time was a great piece of work  that really showed how a good game could be done on the CPC. I would love it to have some more game Modes added to give a few extra dimensions  for example a twin stick version, a la 'Robotron'. The game is fantastic as it is  with some really intelligent scoring which makes a simple shoot em up  far more engaging .

[arnoldemu]

From wikipedia: "Gremlin Interactive's catalogue and name have since been bought up by Ian Stewart's new company Urbanscan."

[arnoldemu]

its an interesting discussion, but lets try to be realistic?

agreed.

Everyone take note. My points are not meant to put people off. I am really saying:

be realistic about the size of the game, the time it will take and  the cost if was funded.

I have 2 games which I would like to finish, but it's hard to find a graphics artist who will help!

[||C|-|E||]

So can I butt in again with another observation.......
I know we all love our CPC's but on a technical level, they are utterly appalling machines, very very slow Z80 CPU's, a basic android/IOS tablet is nearly 3500 times more powerful  and has graphic chips to support it.. We have a Z80 and memory.......oh and a sound chip

a Z80 can do
0.58 MIPS at 4 MHz . The CPC is actually effectively a 3.3Mhz chip...due to screen sharing timing hardware.

an ARM A8 such as found in Ipad and Android tablets...
ARM Cortex-A8 2,000 MIPS at 1.0 GHz

that nearly 3500 times faster........3500....think about that. You don't see world of Warcraft on an Ipad...do you? There's a reason, processing all the info in a game like WoW is a major eater of instruction time, our 0.58mips won't cut it.

So while having more memory gives us more room for scope, it does not give us any more processing power, a 4Mhz Z80 is horribly useless at parsing 1000's of NPC's 50 frames a seconds..it could barely managed 20 or so, never mind trying to draw them....which the CPU has to do as well..
This is why the CPC was a slower machine than the Spectrum, more screen memory means more instruction used to shift data around for drawing and less time for data processing.

Its nice to think anything is possible, but there are serious technical limits. Expanded RAM means we can have more graphics, that can mean better animation, less decompressing, simpler sprite draws, pre-scrolled/rotated  graphics,  more sound, bigger playfields, but it won't let us process multitudes more data.

its an interesting discussion, but lets try to be realistic?

I think that the point is to find a game genre that really fits. I mean, it is probably much more realistic to try to do a big point and click adventure like Orion Prime, or a traditional RPG (Eye of the Beholder like) than something that requires tons of high-speed sprites or advanced AI. It would be probably also possible to do a great platform game or something with a slower pace, like Myth 

[steve]

Chase HQ2

[STE86]

Dropzone maybe? or Donkey Kong Jr?

[Dizrythmia]

I always thought an overhead dungeon crawler like The Legend of Zelda would work well on a CPC.