Newbie saying hello!

[cmonkey]

Hi


I've just registered on these fine forums and thought I'd better pop in here and say hello!  My name is Adrian, I'm 43 and from Leeds, West Yorkshire.  I'm predominantly a (dare I say it here!) Spectrum user (having a collection of about 15 of the various models) and also have a Sam Coupe, but wanted to try an Amstrad machine for the first time to compare architectures.  I'll be getting my first ever Amstrad (a 6128) later this week and am looking forward to the adventure of learning a new Z80 based system.


Can anyone recommend a game or two (either ported or exclusive to Amstrad) that really shows off the extra features of the Amstrad over the Spectrum.


Many thanks.

[Devilmarkus]

Hi Adrian,
welcome in our forum.

The best "Speccy Port" IMHO is "Renegade" by Imagine.

http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=146

Well it's not really a port, but the game also exist on speccys.

Another good game to compare is "Death Wish III" (Which looks almost identically to the CPC version on the Commodork C64)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=690

[MacDeath]

Hello dear Speccy user.


The main features a CPC has over a speccy are the graphic videomodes.
Video modes - CPCWiki

You should compare Chase HQ and Robocop, perhaps also Batman the Movie, as they are quite obviously the Speccy games in Mode0.
But in those cases we have nice Amstrad Games, just slightly slower.


Many Speccy ports on the Amstrad where poorly done because too straighly ported without considering the Amstrad has a fuckhugier "VRAM" to handle.
Another main problem was concerning the graphics.


While almost being the same pixel ratio and screen resolution, a Mode1 on the Amstrad is completely different to the Speccy unique attributed mode..

The AY (soundchip) on the Amstrad isq slower than on the Speccy128 too...often the sounds were also too straughtly ported so had more basses and slower pace on the CPC, which wasn't always bad.

Some games actually almost run as if Speccy was emulated on the CPC.
Exemples are R-Type or Last Ninja 2 (and many many others...).


You can check the differences betwen the classic R-Type speccy port and the modern R-Type128K to see the gap between CPC and Speccy.


I also strongly recommand the speccy port page on the CPCwiki :
Speccy Port - CPCWiki


Also I want to congratulate you for having a CPC6128... this is clearly the best CPC available alongside a 6128PLUS.
The CPC really needs those 128K RAM and disk drive to perform well, if you want to code on it.

[McKlain]

Why are Astro Marine Corps and Satan mentioned in the "Attribute based Sprites and Animation" section of that wiki page???

[cmonkey]

Thanks for the welcomes!


@Devilmarkus - I'll be sure to compare both Renegade and Death Wish III to their Spectrum equivalents to see the difference.


@MacDeath - thanks for all the info.  I'll have a good read of the video mode and Spectrum ports pages.  R-Type was one of my favourite shooters back in the 80's on the Spectrum so it'll be fun to compare the two versions.


Can you recommend a good assembler package so that I can get some code up and running on the actual hardware.  At the moment I'm using the built-in assembler in WinAPE and slowly learning my way around the workings of CRTC and gate array.


Thanks.

[Devilmarkus]

About assemblers:
You could check Maxam here: http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=4685
Also my emulator "JavaCPC Desktop" has an integrated assembler, which iis based on Maxam-Syntax. (WinApe's integrated assembler will be the better choice here, as mine doesn't support macros)

The french CPC-Scene is often coding their stuff with DAMS &#9733 AMSTRAD CPC &#9733 APPLICATIONS &#9733 ASSEMBLEUR & COMPILATEURS &#9733 or &#9733 AMSTRAD CPC &#9733 APPLICATIONS &#9733 PROGRAMMATION AMSTRAD CPC &#9733

[MacDeath]

Why are Astro Marine Corps and Satan mentioned in the "Attribute based Sprites and Animation" section of that wiki page???

because they are character based engines as on Spectrum (for AMC, I don't know concerning Satan).








such sort of engine was somewhat popular in character attribute computers because it was fast and "colourfull" as no clashes occured, but lack the smoothness of masked sprites with smooth movement.


Of course the word "atribute based" should be replaced by "character based" for the CPC and "Character attributes based" for the Spectrum..
Can't always be exactly right, he ?


Satan...






not exactly the same sort of engine... (i didn't did the research enough I guess).
the sprite layer is masked, but still moved by "full characters"...


yet smoother scrolling than AMC.


You can compare with Black Tiger I guess...
on this page there is a video but I don't know how to put it here (not youtube)
http://gamesdbase.com/game/sinclair-zx-spectrum/black-tiger.aspx
this is the only ZX speccy vid of Black Tiger I found ATM.





A good example is perhaps Thexder on NEC PC88/IBM Tandy/CGA PC and so on...

[McKlain]

AMC is character based, but it also manages to put music, fx, parallax scrolling and lots of sprites on screen while in game. And Satan has some of the finest mode 0 graphics that you can see on the Amstrad. Just putting both games on that list without saying anything about their qualities is unfair.

[MacDeath]

Just putting both games on that list without saying anything about their qualities is unfair.

it wasn't a list for shit-tier speccy ports lol*...


it was just a small list with one specific technical specification.




Character based engines have a lot of qualities.
They only lack a few in "smoothness" so are often bitched by C64 fans*.


To be fair I also saw some "Anti Amstrad trolls" telling the new R-Type version wasn't as good as the MSX1 cartridge R-Type version which is "so smooth".


Obvious shit-tier troll is obviously shit tier shitposting*.


MSX R-Type have no smooth scrolling at all, many sprites are character based, a few character clashes occur too, it's just that a very few sprites are in Hardware sprites (R9 and Forces mostly)... they "move smoothly" but still they fire at the character grid (most projectiles and collisions are character based).






*Sorry for the dirty bad words... English not being my native tongue it doesn't bother me.






@McKlein : I edited the page. I hope is is better/clearer now.

[arnoldemu]

@cmonkey:

Please don't be put off by MacDeath's rantings. He is very passionate about the wrong doings. e.g. the amount of games ported direct from the spectrum which don't take more advantage of the amstrad's modes and colours.

You are welcome here to the forums ad I hope you enjoy your exploration of the Amstrad.
(I mainly have Amstrad's at home, but I also own a +3. I have also coded a game on the Spectrum. So you don't need to be pure CPC to be welcome here).

In terms of the actual hardware:

In the past I used Maxam. You can run it from disk. ROM is preferable because it will help you with your development, but you need a ROM board for that. The syntax of the Maxam assembler is the same as the WinAPE assembler. The maxam assembler came first.

With my own demos/games, I like to program them on the pc, using pasmo and my own tools then testing on an emulator. I always transfer them over to the cpc for testing, because that can highlight some issues.

Others prefer to work exclusively on the cpc itself. I see that as a preference thing - it doesn't matter if the end result is what you wanted and it works on real hardware.

If your hitting the crtc directly and playing with hardware tricks, testing on a real cpc is a must, and if possible on various cpc configurations (different crtc types)..

There are code examples on the forum, and feel free to ask if there are things you want to know, people will help.

[arnoldemu]

Can anyone recommend a game or two (either ported or exclusive to Amstrad) that really shows off the extra features of the Amstrad over the Spectrum.

Prehistorik 2
Chase HQ
Gryzor
Renegade
Mission Genocide
Edge Grinder
Orion Prime

A mixture of games with great graphics, great sound, nice smooth scrolling. Give you an idea what is possible.

[McKlain]

Let's not forget Xyphoe's Phantasy 

[cmonkey]

Thanks for all the comments guys!


@Devilmarkus - I'll definitely be checking Maxam out


@arnoldemu - Don't worry, I'm not put off by MacDeath's rantings!  I fully understand why Amstrad owners could potentially feel bitterness towards the dev teams of that time that did a 'quick n dirty' port of a Spectrum game to hardware which was much more capable.  I presume a ROM board is some kind of external peripheral that plugs into the expansion slot on the CPC and allows you to plug in external ROMs.  Are they hard to come by these days?


My assembler of choice when doing Spectrum work is zasm.  It's probably not the best Z80 assembler out there but I'm so used to it now and it serves me well.  I have used pasmo in the past but always ended up going back to zasm.


Just a quick question - are there any CPC games that use IM2?  If so then could you name or or two for me, preferably platformers as I'm wanting to do a quick comparison of an IM2 Spectrum platformer to a CPC one.


I'll be sure to check out a few of the games that you've recommended to see what is possible on the CPC.


Thanks

[McKlain]

@arnoldemu - Don't worry, I'm not put off by MacDeath's rantings!

Just wait till MacDeath posts after drinking a few beers, you'll get to love him 




What's IM2, by the way?

[cmonkey]

Interrupt mode 2

[TFM]

Hi! And welcome!
About ROM boards: Check out the MegaFlash in the Wiki
About Games: Take a look at R-Type (the new version ;-))

[ivarf]

Can anyone recommend a game or two (either ported or exclusive to Amstrad) that really shows off the extra features of the Amstrad over the Spectrum.

I would like to recommend Tornado Low Level (TLL), Sorcery, Alien 8, Knight Lore and Head over Heels, Donkey Kong, Arkanoid, X-out and Doomsday Blues/Eden Blues  as well as many of the other mentioned games earlier in this thread.   Try the Batman Forever demo too.

Devilmarkus: Why "Death Wish 3"? Do that game have any qualities except blockyness? Seriously though, I have never enjoyed that game or felt that it uses the cpc good.

[Devilmarkus]

Simple: It looks better on the CPC (Will not say, it looks really cool, but better than the speccy version)

But where do you see CPC advantages in  TLL?
For me the GFX look very simple...

Thats always the opinion of each player.
It's not simple to match everybody's likes.

[ivarf]

Simple: It looks better on the CPC (Will not say, it looks really cool, but better than the speccy version)

But where do you see CPC advantages in  TLL?
For me the GFX look very simple...

Thats always the opinion of each player.
It's not simple to match everybody's likes.

TLL has extremely fast and smooth scrolling with high framerate, especially when flying full speed diagonally. I cant imagine the Spectrumversion is near the smoothness and speed of the CPC version

[Devilmarkus]

Probably... I never tried any version of TLL... I played it once on a CPC, found it boring, and did not grab it again.

But, as I already wrote: Thats a very personal opinion, other players find it booooombastic

[ivarf]

Probably... I never tried any version of TLL... I played it once on a CPC, found it boring, and did not grab it again.

But, as I already wrote: Thats a very personal opinion, other players find it booooombastic

I agree, and it depends on when one played the game too, one get a nostalgic feeling for some games and some games suit some players better than other.

[MacDeath]

Concerning some Rombox, it could depend if Bryce is about to do a new batch soon or not I guess.


Who else still produce some cards ? Isn't prodatron active again ?
CPCpart do have a CPcbooster+...

CPC Parts : Parts for your Amstrad

But it is not really a Rombox.

[Executioner]

Interrupt mode 2

There are a couple, but it is rather pointless on the CPC since IM 2 is actually slower than IM 1 (and takes 257 bytes to map the vector address) and we have RAM available at #0038 so long as the firmware is disabled.

[arnoldemu]

Interrupt mode 2

very few.

Pang (cart) uses it.

Not sure of others. No need because im 1 is easy to use and you can turn off the roms easily to give full 64k useable.

[Gryzor]

Hello mate,

Welcome to the world of the CPC and to our community, really glad to have you here!

Dear lord, another "best of" thread... We should really make up our minds and make a sticky at some point, shouldn't we? Maybe I should open a thread and vote on -not the best, but the most representative games someone could check out when starting with the CPC?

Anyway, back to the thread, when talking about R-Type, do try the NEW and IMPROVED!!! R-Type 128K (R-Type CPC 128K).
   
Surprised how come nobody mentioned the Batman Forever  demo. Not a game, for sure, but I'm betting everyone will enjoy it

[Edit] Ah -oops, ivarf did mention it!


As usual the discussion veered away...