Cosmic Prison Commando demo 1.1

[Gryzor]

Hello guys, just a heads-up:

Carnivac (or: the God) has released version 1.1 of CPC (or: Cosmic Prison Commando - see what he did there? ),the CPC-looking PC game. REALLY worth a look!!!

http://carnivacgames.blogspot.com/2009/07/cpc-demo-11-topic.html

[Devilmarkus]

Cool news!
Just tried the demo.
Works fine on my system.

Now waiting for CPC version, too 

[fano]

A great graphist , a God of the wide pixel !
I hope he'll found a programmer good as him to write a CPC version

I love the ingame tune, that remind me my young age when i first watched the intros of the TB crackers 

[Gryzor]

I had once asked him what specs he had imposed unto himself to make it CPC-like, it was an interesting read, but I doubt it can be done on a CPC....

[fano]

Why not ? for sure some things would have to be stripped but the main seems possible, we had great games in this style on CPC like the Turricans.

[Gryzor]

Well, yes, a port would be possible, but of course not 100% accurate... too ambitious I would think.

But I love this game

[fano]

My CPC want it ! 

[ukmarkh]

My CPC want it ! 

I've played the game, It'd have to be a 128k only game, then It'd probably be possible. Even with a decent fullish screen.

[TFM]

A port to the CPC is not the problem. If you do it on the CPC Plus, you can port it with 99.7%.

If you want to use the CPC old generation, the scrolling would be a problem, so if you can live with a screen scrolling in eight directions only, then a port is still no problem.

If you want to have additonally overscan (using 32 KB screen memory) then the CPC is short before reaching its limits. But its still doable.

However, personally I think that 128 KB will not be enought. OK, you can compress a lot of data, but this would stall the game.

C.P.C on the CPC would be one of the best games ever made. On the PC with all the power, all the colors, all the sound... well, thats a different starting point. It will be much harder to do it on a CPC, but it is possible, no question.

Cheers,
TFM

[Gryzor]

If it would be possible, in my opinion one shouldn't even stick to the 128k limit - if such a wonder is ever possible, then go ahead and use the whole range - 256, even 512k. It'd be worth it, even only being able to run it in an emulator... But that's just my opinion

[fano]

Problem is if you use more than 128K, you can not run it on a 'stock' machine.
I really like the cross-dev (so comfortable !) but my aim is to write code for real 'stock' CPC/+, i think it is not very interesting to write code that will run only on extented machines & emulators.
It is a bit like Tribute to Sister that is a great project but will work only w/ a CPC with FOS so with a ROM box, that reduces a lot project audience (sadly i can run it only in an emulator )

Other side, that would be interesting to devellop that in a cartbridge, but we do not know how to create new cartbridges for now :s
Anyway, i'm not sure Carn would like to see his work on a CPC+.

[Gryzor]

I see your point, but let me put it this way: if the only way to do something like that is to take advantage of all the modern technology, then by all means do it...

[voXfReaX]

Problem is if you use more than 128K, you can not run it on a 'stock' machine.
I really like the cross-dev (so comfortable !) but my aim is to write code for real 'stock' CPC/+, i think it is not very interesting to write code that will run only on extented machines & emulators.
It is a bit like Tribute to Sister that is a great project but will work only w/ a CPC with FOS so with a ROM box, that reduces a lot project audience (sadly i can run it only in an emulator )

Other side, that would be interesting to devellop that in a cartbridge, but we do not know how to create new cartbridges for now :s
Anyway, i'm not sure Carn would like to see his work on a CPC+.

I fully support your opinion!!!!!
Emulators are ok but the most important thing is to "admire" a production in the real machine!!!!
I do not have a problem with emulators (they help you a lot with development and maybe to work when you are somewhere with no CPC) but you miss the real action!!!!
So fano, do whatever you want, as long as it is for the real loved machine

we speak,
voxfreax

ps:@Gryzor: yes but no! I fully support to take advantage of all the technology developed but for the original standards of CPC!!!!

[TFM]

Common answer.... ;-)

- RAM: Let me take a look at the number of different sprites (and sprite phases) and at the amount of background graphic:160 KB - better 192 KB - is needed. Else (with 128 KB) you can crunch GFX data, but it would make the game unaceptable slow.

- The idea with the cartridge is good. It's not hard to create it. There is also software, that can create Cartridges (the file!) for you (from your binaries). The problem is here that it will be hard to get the ACID chips (see CPC Wiki) to produce the cartridges.

- About CPC/Emulators: Yes, the CPC itself is the most impotant. What ever we do it shall look good at the real CPC. However, today most of the CPC freaks have a RAM and a ROM expansion, f.e. SF2 or what ever. Just get it from ebay. I see absolute no need to work with the bare 128 KB 6128 skeleton. That would be the same if I throw my modern laptop away and go back to the first laptop ever built with no expansion. If we have standart extensions for the CPC like RAM and ROM then in gods name USE THEM! And if you really want the machine from the stock, then please use the CPC464 with tape and green screen and nothing else, this would be true purism ;-)

And now have a good day,
TFM

[fano]

- RAM: Let me take a look at the number of different sprites (and sprite phases) and at the amount of background graphic:160 KB - better 192 KB - is needed. Else (with 128 KB) you can crunch GFX data, but it would make the game unaceptable slow.

As i said before, some cutdown would be done to run on a 128K machine.If i have to choose between cutting down the game or upgrade the machine (PC syndrom), i'll choose first else the game will stays on PC where it runs perfectly.

- The idea with the cartridge is good. It's not hard to create it. There is also software, that can create Cartridges (the file!) for you (from your binaries). The problem is here that it will be hard to get the ACID chips (see CPC Wiki) to produce the cartridges.

For sure the problem is not creating cartridge file (and as i saw, that should be a major advantage for this game) , it is ACID, since we are not able to re-create some, we are condamned to cannibalize old cartriges and we take the risk to see our work reconditionned in an old cartridge on Ebay (/me vomits)

And if you really want the machine from the stock, then please use the CPC464 with tape and green screen and nothing else, this would be true purism ;-)

I am far to be a purist but your point is caricatural.464,664,6128,464+,6128+ and gx4000 are stock machines, 6128 is not a mod of the 464.As opposite,6128 with ROM/RAM extensions is a mod of a 6128.
From this pow, we could say we'll create a GFX card for CPC w/ hard sprites,layers,scrolls,sound system etc and produce games only for this type of hardware, and optionnaly recreate PCs (/me vomits twice ).

About users , i am not sure the audience of this type of programs (games) is equipped with this type of extensions (@Gryzor , a poll about this should be interesting, no ?).For me, one of the main interest (except sentimental) to create on CPC is to have a fixed configuration (in opposite to PC where you have to deal w/ various OS, infamous drivers and exotic hardware).

And now have a good day,
TFM

You too  For French guys, this Wednesday will be Christmas (maybe Thursday) 

PS:Apologies for writting Engrish

[TFM]

Thanks for the long answer, however ...

- ACID, right, they are hard to get. I know one source, and they will sell "all or nohing", which means you get too much chips for too much money.

- I prefer to have better software insteasd of saving some small money for hardware extensions.

- If you call that point caricatural then you may be really wrong. In the 80ies I could buy a CPC6128 with Dobbertin-RAM expansion and EPROM-expansion and even a 20 MB hard-disc at once. That is what I call stock machine, but this doesn't matter, because:

- THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY I SHOULD ONLY USE STOCK MACHINES, that's as stupid as cut my own toe. If I can use advanced expansions, I will do it, because anything else would have no logical reason. Or do you use your old Citroen when you have already your new BMW at home? (Ok, may not be the best example, but you know what I mean).

- RAM and ROM expansions are nothing special for the CPC, it's pure mainstream, everybody (nearly) uses them today, we're not talking about fantasy-gfx-cards or whatever. So RAM and ROM expansions are a PART of the fixed configuration today!

- A poll would be a nice idea, we had one before at the FutureOS ML, so I know what I'm talking about.

- However no need for a flamewar here, you can do what you want and I do the same. Finally others will decide what's more accepted.

Bye,
TFM / FS

As i said before, some cutdown would be done to run on a 128K machine.If i have to choose between cutting down the game or upgrade the machine (PC syndrom), i'll choose first else the game will stays on PC where it runs perfectly.
For sure the problem is not creating cartridge file (and as i saw, that should be a major advantage for this game) , it is ACID, since we are not able to re-create some, we are condamned to cannibalize old cartriges and we take the risk to see our work reconditionned in an old cartridge on Ebay (/me vomits)
I am far to be a purist but your point is caricatural.464,664,6128,464+,6128+ and gx4000 are stock machines, 6128 is not a mod of the 464.As opposite,6128 with ROM/RAM extensions is a mod of a 6128.
From this pow, we could say we'll create a GFX card for CPC w/ hard sprites,layers,scrolls,sound system etc and produce games only for this type of hardware, and optionnaly recreate PCs (/me vomits twice ).

About users , i am not sure the audience of this type of programs (games) is equipped with this type of extensions (@Gryzor , a poll about this should be interesting, no ?).For me, one of the main interest (except sentimental) to create on CPC is to have a fixed configuration (in opposite to PC where you have to deal w/ various OS, infamous drivers and exotic hardware).
You too  For French guys, this Wednesday will be Christmas (maybe Thursday) 

PS:Apologies for writting Engrish

[fano]

- However no need for a flamewar here, you can do what you want and I do the same. Finally others will decide what's more accepted.

Huh??? what about flamewar ?
I supposed we are adults enough to be able to discuss , maybe with strenght and conviction, about our respectives arguments.Please don't be touchy, my post was not an attack, just my point about this subject and some remarks were only second degree.
Anyway, this discussion is closed and we're back on the original topic 

[Gryzor]

I said it before, and I'll say ti again: IF it's a question of either having the game for a souped-up machine or not having at all, then I don't care if I need extra bits of hardware to run it.

Besides, look at the other machines out there - they all have games released for modded versions... it'd be fun!

[MacDeath]

Funny, there are 2 philosophy on the matter.

--pure CPC untouched by any peripheral/extension.
--hardwares techies with their custom 4MB card...

I always believed Amstrad was cheap on RAM...

Proper Amstrad Plus range (and GX4000) would have needed 256 KO minimum to me.

On the other hand, the cartridge solution may bring some agument, yet ACID is still not properly analised.

A good old coomon cart like GX4000's burnin' rubber may be customised as a multi-EEprom support quite easily...
Then this add easily 64Ko of data to ease the Amstrad...maybe more ?

I think Plus games should use this more often : Game on Cartridge+Disc.

The Cartridge would include a "loader" with only strict necessary to run Disk drive and common features, the rest of the 128Ko would then include extra Datas so the mundane 6128+ would storage 48Ko+64Ko+ (128Ko-the pseudo OS/launcher)

Also it would be great if we could get a good analisis of the ACIP chip...some companies do it.
But it costs money...
we should have a look for how much it would cost, then many raise some funds... and get the company to do it and supply it with an Amstrad+ (or simply GX 4000) and 1-2 cartiridge to analyse.

And a good HowTo page about customising Plus cartirdge into multiEEprom slot...

[arnoldemu]

Funny, there are 2 philosophy on the matter.

--pure CPC untouched by any peripheral/extension.
--hardwares techies with their custom 4MB card...

I always believed Amstrad was cheap on RAM...

On the other hand, the cartridge solution may bring some agument, yet ACID is still not properly analised.

My thoughts:
I like to see games running on original hardware, and for real nostalgia loading from tape. But this is *my* preference. To be honest, I think do as you want, if you want to use more ram then do it, it is more important to get games out there I think.

Making a cartridge game would be fun I think, but something I do not have time for yet, my personal choice would be cartridge only and not to use cartridge AND disc/tape. And for cartridge I would make it 64k compatible so it could be run on a real GX4000 if necessary, but again this is *my* choice.

I think if TFM wants to make stuff using harddrives and 2MB ram and FutureOS then why not? That is his choice. So TFM please continue.

Analysis of the ACID is already in progress (Spanish language forum). If anybody can help, then please post there:
http://amstradcpc.mforos.com/305097/7723493-que-hace-exactamente-el-chip-acid-de-los-cartuchos/

[fano]

For sure cartridge would too a solution to keep compatibility w/ 64K machine.More , in terms of program design it would be easier to work w/ ASIC (yes i need to stop dreaming lol )

Have you an idea of the cost of the analysis of the IC ?

Analysis of the ACID is already in progress (Spanish language forum). If anybody can help, then please post there:
http://amstradcpc.mforos.com/305097/7723493-que-hace-exactamente-el-chip-acid-de-los-cartuchos/

Shame i don't speak Spanish 

[spybro]

a while back there was a preview of this one
showing that actually it was possible to port it to a real cpc
is any of the scene members working on it?

[arnoldemu]

a while back there was a preview of this one
showing that actually it was possible to port it to a real cpc
is any of the scene members working on it?

I was thinking about it but I didn't start it.

[spybro]

I was thinking about it but I didn't start it.

any chance of starting it?
it would be awesome to have this title in our cpc

[TFM]

any chance of starting it?
it would be awesome to have this title in our cpc

Yes, right, would be nice to have a 1:1 conversion for the CPC. But nevertheless, this game is nothing else than a PC game ... and there are a lot of PC games, that would be nice to have on a CPC.
I thought for a while about the possibility of a 1:1 conversion (see abouve), yes doable. But I need my time for own projects. Let the original coder of the game decide if he want's to have a CPC conversion.