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Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)

Started by Xyphoe, 06:54, 05 January 11

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MacDeath

Wasn't Rick dangerous a common exemple of mixed resolutions ?

Rick is mad of multiple High Res sprites (hence a few colours... while the baddies are wide pixels sprites : 3 colours ?
They don't look that good and were straightly ported into CPC (ouch)...

The same with tiles...
Background is High resolution, so 2 colours...
Foreground is wide pixels so 4 colours...

Needless to say it looks better on the 128+ version...
Yet I must admit a few sprites are not that well finished IMO... I am still ashamed by the frames of the dying gollus...

Yet I am somewhat proud of what I did with the mummy, the Egyptians and Nazies... 8)

Nich

The latest news on César's site is that BB4CPC is "close to completion", and he would like to publish it on the 8th of November, which happens to be the anniversary of Bubble Bobble's international release. Let's hope that it will be published in a few days' time! :)

AMSDOS

Quote from: Nich on 19:15, 06 November 11
The latest news on César's site is that BB4CPC is "close to completion", and he would like to publish it on the 8th of November, which happens to be the anniversary of Bubble Bobble's international release. Let's hope that it will be published in a few days' time! :)

Better get it out quick cause the day's almost over here and tomorrow's the 8th!  :laugh:
* Using the old Amstrad Languages :D * And create my own ;)
* Incorporating the Firmware :P
* I also like to problem solve code in BASIC :)   * And type-in Type-Ins! :D

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Gryzor

OMG! OMG! Better warm my HxC up!!!

MacDeath


tastefulmrship

I do love a bit of Bubble Bobble, I can't wait for this release as well!
So (for a laugh) here's my mock-up, fake CATart I always meant to complete but never did (basically because creating CATart is so tedious and boring)... I might one day!

(click on thumbnail to view full image)


TFM

Quote from: MaV on 10:07, 19 April 11
With your approval, we can use parts of this post for the wiki articles (cpc vs c64 vs spectrum).

Hmmm.... maybe we should add what the CPC CAN do before, which wasn't mentioned that much (probably because we all know).
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

TFM

Quote from: Briggsy on 17:16, 19 April 11
Just a shame that the C64's idea of a colour palette originated in the dreary shades of the 70s.

The colors were choosen by acciden, actually by using few resistors for colors and their opposite colors. It was all about cost-down. There is an article in the net where the developpers state that.
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

MacDeath

#58
Concerning the C64, to me the sad part is that this aspect was never properly upgraded.

I mean the C128 could have been quite sweet with still a custom palette but pehaps some +16 additionnal "normal" colours...


As we know, a 32 colour palette is quite good enough for a 8 bit computer and the Amstrad CPC palette was jsute lacking +5 extra colours only (like +2 greys... and a few extra browns/green/dark colours perhaps ...)

But while the extra speed from the C64 light video system is good for cartoonish cute kawai games like "bobobble", the palette is not...



Look a Rainbow Island...

Colour clashes and poor coloured "rainbow" on C64.



So I guess if bubblbobbl manage to be smooth and fast enought (fluid animation would be grat too)... and a good gameplay, the CPC graphics may make the whole difference even if the c64 on plays faster and smoother.

Bryce

Last night I repaired and upgraded my C16 to 128K. It has 121 colours and mixed-mode text/graphic screens :) Later in the week it will be getting an extra ROM for the Plus/4 3+1 Applications :) It's a pity the sound was so lame, they should have stuck with the SID.

Bryce.

MacDeath

C16 : a shame a lot of stuff are not kept from the C64/128...

arnoldemu

Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:37, 07 November 11

The colors were choosen by acciden, actually by using few resistors for colors and their opposite colors. It was all about cost-down. There is an article in the net where the developpers state that.
I read another article where it said they had free choice, so it was not an accident.
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

arnoldemu

Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:35, 07 November 11

Hmmm.... maybe we should add what the CPC CAN do before, which wasn't mentioned that much (probably because we all know).
I wrote this, but did not publish it yet, because MaV was working on his:

Comparing CPC and C64:

- The C64 was released in 1982, the CPC released in 1984.

- The C64 was designed to be connected to a television (PAL: 50Hz, NTSC: 60Hz). The CPC was designed to be connected to a green screen or colour monitor.

- The C64 has a palette of 16 colours. The Amstrad has a palette of 27 colours.

- The C64 has a 1.0MHz 6510 CPU (a 6502 based CPU). The CPC has a 4.0Mhz Z80 CPU.

- The C64 has a programmable raster interrupt. You can define the line at which the interrupt will be triggered. The CPC has 6 "raster" interrupts at fixed positions through the 50Hz frame.

- The C64 has 50Hz and 60Hz variants (for regions where PAL and NTSC are used), the clocks inside the C64 are based off this.

- The C64's color RAM, SID, VIC and other hardware can be made visible within
the 6510's memory space. Access to them is done using normal read/write operations.
All access to the CPC's hardware is done using the Z80's special I/O instructions.

- The C64 has pixel-by-pixel hardware scrolling in both the horizontal and vertical. The CPC has hardware scrolling, with some work it can be pixel-by-pixel in the vertical direction, and 2 pixels at a time in the horizontal.

- The C64 has the SID sound chip. The CPC has the AY-3-8912 sound chip.

- The C64 has the VIC video chip. The CPC has the 6845 CRTC and Gate-Array.

- The C64 tape loading is done through interrupts so is not intensive on the cpc. The CPC tape loading is intensive on the CPU.

- The C64 communicates with the disc drive through a wired serial connection. This means loading from disc is slow unless a special loader is used.
The CPC's disc interface loads quick.

- The CPC can do overscan, the C64 can do it, but only sprites can be displayed where the border was.


Comparison of the SID and AY-3-8912:

AY sound chip has 3 tone channels, 1 noise channel and 1 hardware envelope.
A mixer can be used to enable/disable tone output for each channel, The volume of each tone channel can be independantly controlled,
OR be controlled by a hardware envelope.


Comparing Plus and C64:

- The C64 was released in 1982, the Plus released in 1990.

- The C64 has a palette of 16 colours. The Plus has a palette of 4096 colours.

- The C64 has a 1.0MHz 6510 CPU (a 6502 based CPU with I/O ports based at location &0000 and &0001).
The Plus has a 4.0Mhz Z80 CPU.

- Both the C64 and Plus have pixel-by-pixel hardware scrolling both in the horizontal and vertical.
(pixel by pixel scrolling requires Plus extra features)

- Both the C64 and Plus have programmable raster interrupts. e.g. you can set which
line of the display an interrupt can occur on.
(requires Plus extra features)

- The C64 has the VIC video chip. The Plus has the ASIC.


Sprite Comparisons:

C64:
- The C64 has 8 hardware sprites.
- Each sprites can be one of two resolutions: high resolution or multicolour.
- You can define 1 unique colour for each sprite.
- The priority of sprite-to-sprite is fixed. Sprite 0 has a higher priority than sprite 8.

The pixel size in high resolution is comparable to CPC's mode 1. Each pixel can be either
transparent OR a colour unique for each sprite.
The pixel size in multicolour is comparable to CPC's mode 0.

- The Plus has 16 hardware sprites. They have their own 16 colour palette which is shared between them all. They can have a resolution the same as mode 2, mode 1 or mode 0. Each sprite is 16x16 pixels.

The Plus sprites can have more colours and are higher resolution compared to the C64's sprites.

(Plus extra features must be activated using a special control sequence.
When this is done, the ASIC registers can be made visible in memory between &4000-&7fff.
The Plus registers can then be accessed using normal memory read/write operations).
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

voXfReaX

#63
Quote from: tastefulmrship on 17:10, 07 November 11
I do love a bit of Bubble Bobble, I can't wait for this release as well!
So (for a laugh) here's my mock-up, fake CATart I always meant to complete but never did (basically because creating CATart is so tedious and boring)... I might one day!

(click on thumbnail to view full image)


Hi!

As I can see from your post, I believe that you like CATarts! Great!

Just some short questions:

1/ Have you included this CATart in a DSK, or the screen attached in your post is taken after running your basic program?
2/ If you have included it in a DSK, how many entries does it use?
3/ Do you use CATaclysm to build your CATarts or some other self-made software? If not, which editor do you use for it?

It is not an interrogation, even if it looks like :)

In any case, it's a great CATart; congrats!

See you,
voxy

MaV

Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:37, 08 November 11
I wrote this, but did not publish it yet, because MaV was working on his:

And I completely forgot.  :-[
Black Mesa Transit Announcement System:
"Work safe, work smart. Your future depends on it."

tastefulmrship

#65
Quote from: voXfReaX on 10:40, 08 November 11
1/ Have you included this CATart in a DSK, or the screen attached in your post is taken after running your basic program?
2/ If you have included it in a DSK, how many entries does it use?
3/ Do you use CATaclysm to build your CATarts or some other self-made software? If not, which editor do you use for it?
1. This is still just a picture from the BASIC program. I started a control-code list (04 01, 1D 00 00, etc) but found the Bub sprite was getting a little complicated as it uses a lot of PAPER changes.
It was originally done to try and appease TFM/FS's hatred of the CPC conversion, but I never got around to finishing it.

2. Not yet; ZYNAPS got in the way! I would guess it's probably greater than 64! I'd have to sit down and finish the cc list first and count them.

3. I use NOTEPAD.EXE on PC, DISCOLOGY on CPC and lot of trial & error. My CATart is CPC6128 and MODE 1 specific as catering for all CPCs and MODEs greatly reduces how much you can show in 64 entries. 3" disks don't have such a problem, but most projects don't need such large disks.
For interest; the NYANCAT artwork took me just over 4 days to perfect and doesn't even use all 64 entries (as was noted by someone).

Maybe CATACLYSM is the way forward, but I find manually controlling what order the 'files' are PRINTed much more satisfying, and seeing my (pathetic) work on POUET.NET is simply weird, especially as the screenshot should have showcased the demo, instead! But I guess that's the CPC's selling point over other conversions of NYANCAT!

voXfReaX

#66
Quote from: tastefulmrship on 11:11, 08 November 11
1. This is still just a picture from the BASIC program. I started a control-code list (04 01, 1D 00 00, etc) but found the Bub sprite was getting a little complicated as it uses a lot of PAPER changes.
It was originally done to try and appease TFM/FS's hatred of the CPC conversion, but I never got around to finishing it.

2. Not yet; ZYNAPS got in the way! I would guess it's probably greater than 64! I'd have to sit down and finish the cc list first and count them.

3. I use NOTEPAD.EXE on PC, DISCOLOGY on CPC and lot of trial & error. My CATart is CPC6128 and MODE 1 specific as catering for all CPCs and MODEs greatly reduces how much you can show in 64 entries. 3" disks don't have such a problem, but most projects don't need such large disks.
For interest; the NYANCAT artwork took me just over 4 days to perfect and doesn't even use all 64 entries (as was noted by someone).

Maybe CATACLYSM is the way forward, but I find manually controlling what order the 'files' are PRINTed much more satisfying, and seeing my (pathetic) work on POUET.NET is simply weird, especially as the screenshot should have showcased the demo, instead! But I guess that's the CPC's selling point over other conversions of NYANCAT!
1/ OK!
2/ Yes; I thought that this CATart takes more than 64 entries, that's the reason I asked you in the very first place.
3/ I guess Discology is the best editor for creating a CATart.


As far as CATaclysm is concerned, I have to admit that this small application is really handy. However, after some checks done by Sylvestre (regarding a CATart for which I asked him to help me), he found out that there were 11 entries saved while doing the CATart from scratch in Discology, whereas there were 64 in CATaclysm.
Nevertheless, CATaclysm is a great tool, which allows every CPC user to do a CATart, even if it is not that highly optimized... However, I believe that the only way to reach a higher level and become expert in CATart "coding" is via Discology or perhaps some other editor.
Regarding Nyancat, perhaps you should contact Buckethead (the guy who originally uploaded the Nyan demo) and ask him to replace the screenshot with another one? It is just an idea...

Thanks again for your time answering to my questions!
@rest of people: Sorry for this short intermission from the topic!
voxy

tastefulmrship

Quote from: voXfReaX on 11:27, 08 November 11
However, I believe that the only way to reach a higher level and become expert in CATart "coding" is via Discology or perhaps some other editor.
Indeed. It's difficult to explain how CATart is created to someone who has never done it, as it doesn't involve any actual programming and is simply manual editing of the disc sectors. You can't send a 'before' and 'after' disc for comparison as the 'before' disc is an empty, formatted disc and the 'after' disc is the whole job completed.
I don't know how CATACLYSM handles the two file-extension bytes (after the . in the filename), but it comes in handy changing PAPER & PEN values (0D & 0E followed by a one byte parameter, then 15 to disable VDU), otherwise they can be pretty redundant when messing with WINDOW, MODE, BORDER, INK commands. Wasting valuable space!

C64 has its own directory ASCII art, but is limited to 16 characters wide (from memory) where ours is the whole screen! Theirs can access all of the character set and ours is limited to character 127.
(Swings and roundabouts! Pros and cons! Horses for courses!)

voXfReaX

Quote from: tastefulmrship on 11:40, 08 November 11
I don't know how CATACLYSM handles the two file-extension bytes (after the . in the filename), but it comes in handy changing PAPER & PEN values (0D & 0E followed by a one byte parameter, then 15 to disable VDU), otherwise they can be pretty redundant when messing with WINDOW, MODE, BORDER, INK commands. Wasting valuable space!
I cannot answer with 100% certainty to your questions, as I am a newbie to this CATart maze! If interested, there is a lot of information in the readme.txt and sample files in the Cataclysm DSK. You can find it here if you haven't downloaded it already.
Quote from: tastefulmrship on 11:40, 08 November 11
C64 has its own directory ASCII art, but is limited to 16 characters wide (from memory) where ours is the whole screen! Theirs can access all of the character set and ours is limited to character 127.

We have another huge constraint to face: Differences in chars-display between UK/ES/DE ROMs and FR ROMs! A lot of the 127 available characters for CATarts are being displayed differently in the FR ROMs, which does not actually allows you to create impressive ASCII arts...

Gryzor

So... it's the 8th. Anyone got any news?

tastefulmrship

Quote from: voXfReaX on 12:07, 08 November 11
I cannot answer with 100% certainty to your questions, as I am a newbie to this CATart maze! If interested, there is a lot of information in the readme.txt and sample files in the Cataclysm DSK. You can find it here if you haven't downloaded it already.
I do have the .dsk, but direct from T&J's website, rather than from CPCPower, so it's just the .dsk file without any documentation.
(direct link to manual)

Quote from: voXfReaX on 12:07, 08 November 11
We have another huge constraint to face: Differences in chars-display between UK/ES/DE ROMs and FR ROMs! A lot of the 127 available characters for CATarts are being displayed differently in the FR ROMs, which does not actually allows you to create impressive ASCII arts...
Are these ASCII differences documented anywhere? I've been trying to create a 76x25 MODE 2 ASCII art of the AMSTRAD logo (for use in a PARADOS .dsk CATart) and it will look weird if the 'symbols' are different on French machines.

Quote from: Gryzor on 12:31, 08 November 11
So... it's the 8th. Anyone got any news?
Yep, try here... ... oh, sorry, do you mean about BB4CPC? No, nothing yet! ^_^

MacDeath

#71
Sorry but "C64 vs CPC" should be plitted into a different topic.


Concerning PLUS and C64 sprites, you failed to mention the multiplexable nature and the fact they access to the RAM for C64 while PLUS' must be uploaded into
some kind of "specific internal ASIC RAM"... hence are slow to "update frame"... hence are quite difficult to actually be used well and plenty.

Also the PLUS' scrolling is not as easy to implement as C64's...
Despite those 16sprites, a good game may still need to rely a lot on Software sprites or go through RAM/CPU intensives processes to get the most from those Sprites...

While C64 sprites are "easily" multiplexable so you have a big surface on the screen with 8 sprites per line...
But on the other hand, the C64 clearly sucks a great lot in Software sprties due to the awfull colour clashes.
(well, large pixels, with 4 colours per character may enable still better exploitation than on the speccy's 1bpp only...)


Also a lot of "additional video modes" can be obtained on C64 thanx to flipping, rasters, Sprites and the 2 characters modes... (1bpp or 2bpp).

but while those may enable sweet still pictures, it can't be seriously considered for a proper game's engine and are still quite limited because of the "special" palette and the attributed nature.
(yet can produce magnificient Greys and browns subjects...stone, wood, skin and metal)

Amstrad PLUS on the other hand is generously gifted in colours palette... even a bit too much.
You simply can't exploit this easily if your maximum "standard mode" is only 16 colours and the square pixel mode is only 4 colours, even the Atari ST 512colour or EGA 64colours palettes are quite enough most of time.

Sadly the PLUS lacks a properly fine 320x200x16 mode per example, which would put it into the MSX2+/TurboR/16bit computers category concerning pure graphics IMO...
But it is still quite good with its rasterized overscaned mode0 with sprites patches and you may get something quite as good (or even better) as with the 320x200x16 from AtariST or EGA PC... yet blockier.

Also this 4096 palette is quite good for gradient rasters or fade-in/fade-out effects.

While Batman demo shown us CPC has quite an untapped potential, the PLUS also has quite an untapped potential in Demomaking that may msilent the C64fanboyz... (and games, but this is another story...).



QuoteAre these ASCII differences documented anywhere? I've been trying to create a 76x25 MODE 2 ASCII art of the AMSTRAD logo (for use in a PARADOS .dsk CATart) and it will look weird if the 'symbols' are different on French machines.
I started such an ASCII topic (CPCwiki discussions section) in hope someone would de a properly linked and categorized page on the wiki on the matter...

As I told there, I simply couldn't find a proper page concerning the letters, characters and ASCII in general from the CPC/Wiki point of view.

But this topic highlighted the importance of such non-existing page also from the Cat'art point of view... and the importance of the different country's ROM that have to be taken into account when you design such ASCII art Cat'arts...

CatArtSCIIs ?
lol


QuoteYep, try here... ... oh, sorry, do you mean about BB4CPC? No, nothing yet! ^_^
What ?
Key ally urges Berlussolini to quit ? :D

tastefulmrship

Quote from: MacDeath on 12:46, 08 November 11
I started such an ASCII topic (CPCwiki discussions section) in hope someone would de a properly linked and categorized page on the wiki on the matter...

As I told there, I simply couldn't find a proper page concerning the letters, characters and ASCII in general from the CPC/Wiki point of view.

But this topic highlighted the importance of such non-existing page also from the Cat'art point of view... and the importance of the different country's ROM that have to be taken into account when you design such ASCII art Cat'arts...
Maybe this ASCII/CATart discussion needs to be moved to that ASCII thread; though I think that thread got taken over by a "fonts" discussion... and I think I may have been the one who took it over! Hehehe, sorry! Leaving this thread free for the UPCOMING release of BB4CPC! Whoo!

MacDeath

#73
QuoteMaybe this ASCII/CATart discussion needs to be moved to that ASCII thread; though I think that thread got taken over by a "fonts" discussion... and I think I may have been the one who took it over! Hehehe, sorry!
Well, quite normal from an Italian (according o your flag...
Hey, where is your brick ? ;)
QuoteLeaving this thread free for the UPCOMING release of BB4CPC! Whoo!
See, we are all longing for the announced (and longly awaited) release and killing time as we can...
Pathetically... :(


Hey, Dom Cesar, where are you ?You shouldn't have gone to the ides of Mars.

(Mars ? we are in November, WTF ?)


"Ave Caesar, luducii te salutent."

Devilmarkus

AFAIK César already looked for people who test the game.
So perhaps (because nobody reacted on this) he's still testing....
When you put your ear on a hot stove, you can smell how stupid you are ...

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