Is it possible to build a megaflash with included 512kb Ram Exp and Lower ROM

[TFM]

If i recall right the SF2 was 140 euros

It was 125 Euro including PSU and postage.

Another off topic: The SF2 has 1mb ram but does the clever thing that you can use it as either just 1mb ram or by setting a jumper you get 512kb of "rom" space and 512kb ram .

No, it provides 512 KB RAM (unbuffered) and 512 KB of ROM. (ROM is simulated by using S-RAM). But you can't switch them to something else.

[Bryce]

The difference between RAM and ROM is just how it's mapped, otherwise the interface circuitry is pretty much identical, so it does make sense to put them on one board, but other devices share no common hardware, so it's really just two devices on one physical board. But my experience tells me it's still not the best solution: If you make an all singing and dancing card of course it's going to cost more and many people won't buy it because of this. Many people only want one or two functions from the device and aren't willing to pay that much extra for unused features. By keeping the devices separate, everyone can choose the configuration for themselves. It does make the individual devices slightly more expensive, but in the long run it is probably cheaper for everyone except the people who really did want everything. The people who bought the DigiBlaster v3 weren't the same people as the ones who bought the USB Mouse Adapter, nor the S-Video Adapter or even the MegaFlash. There is very little cross-over, perhaps 5 or 6 people who actually ordered every device, so the all singing and dancing device would be better for 6 people but more expensive or too expensive for 150+ people.

But that's just my opinion.

Bryce.

[Pentagon]

100% indeed, but anyway i would buy the All Dancing Singing device, i dont care about the higher cost, i would love to have such an device. its most useful to me and i am pretty sure there are at least 10 others who buy it.

Cheers
Tom

[HAL6128]

As far as I have followed ancient discussion of Dr. Zed and Prodatron both were keen of creating a device and software which shows that the cpc is still a usefull computer even nowadays and can compete with a modern PCs. Dr. Zed with it's full gadget hardware extension (RAM/ROM/MOUSE/IDE/RTC) and Prodatron with a fitting (Symb)OS - FAT IDE, mouse, multitasking, typical window enviroment, handy, 1 MB Ram etc.. (But lacks in applications because of less programmers). Make out of the CPC a modern PC?
I like the MegaFlash. Easy to handle and pretty realiable. Charming like the CPC.
(Doesn't mean that the Symbiface isn't good or not a cool All-Dancing-Singing device. But it is pretty too complex for me. I speak as a assembler aprentice. Advanced people might think different of course.)

[TFM]

100% indeed, but anyway i would buy the All Dancing Singing device, i dont care about the higher cost, i would love to have such an device. its most useful to me and i am pretty sure there are at least 10 others who buy it.

Cheers
Tom

Yes, and one of them is me    And maybe I even take two of them 

[TFM]

As far as I have followed ancient discussion of Dr. Zed and Prodatron both were keen of creating a device and software which shows that the cpc is still a usefull computer even nowadays and can compete with a modern PCs. Dr. Zed with it's full gadget hardware extension (RAM/ROM/MOUSE/IDE/RTC) and Prodatron with a fitting (Symb)OS - FAT IDE, mouse, multitasking, typical window enviroment, handy, 1 MB Ram etc.. (But lacks in applications because of less programmers). Make out of the CPC a modern PC?
I like the MegaFlash. Easy to handle and pretty realiable. Charming like the CPC.
(Doesn't mean that the Symbiface isn't good or not a cool All-Dancing-Singing device. But it is pretty too complex for me. I speak as a assembler aprentice. Advanced people might think different of course.)

Pah! Urban legends!    Dr. Zed (I brought him actually to the CPC), Octoate, Tolkin and me worked together to create the CPC-IDE (most of the work was done by Dr. Zed of course). Later on - while we have been on the way to the CPC-IDE II - Prodatron joined the team and took all over with all his money. So instead of the CPC-IDE II there was the SF2. And Octoate, Tolkin and me have been kicked out.

[Phi2x]

.

[OCT]

So in the end, more of the SF2s could be built, or possibly more than a prototype of the SF3 right away?
What rights held by whom would encumber such efforts of anyone considering themselves "kicked out"?

[HAL6128]

Pah! Urban legends!    Dr. Zed (I brought him actually to the CPC), Octoate, Tolkin and me worked together to create the CPC-IDE (most of the work was done by Dr. Zed of course). Later on - while we have been on the way to the CPC-IDE II - Prodatron joined the team and took all over with all his money. So instead of the CPC-IDE II there was the SF2. And Octoate, Tolkin and me have been kicked out.

...this is quite an emotional point of view. What about the technical point of view of the SF2?

[trocoloco]

Yes, and one of them is me    And maybe I even take two of them 

I second you guys, but I'll be more than happy having just one 

[Gryzor]

Did I mention I want two?


Of course we're talking about a vague idea now and we haven't discussed a spec, maybe split the thread and go from there? And, in the meantime, start sucking up to Bryce?

[Bryce]

If it's really just a collection of existing devices, then it's not all that much work - Patch all the schematics together, remove the excess connectors / capacitors and make a layout. The biggest problem will be interfacing: Where should it connect to if it's internal that will fit on all CPCs?

Bryce.

[Pentagon]

Yes, and one of them is me    And maybe I even take two of them 

Great first two units sold ;-)

Did I mention I want two?

YAY, four units sold !!! 

And i will take two too .....

6 Units sold


Bryce? ;-)

[Pentagon]

BTW: If we add the shematics of the CPC-IDE (Symbiface 1) to that all singing and dance card, then it will support IDE too.

So we have IDE, 512Kb, Megaflash, Lower Rom Card all in one Board. And yes that could be external Device if its tiny and small ;-)

It would work with FOS, BDOS and SymbOS and Amsdos ... sounds good?


Cheers
Tom

[robcfg]

Throw 4Mb ram and usb/PS2 mouse support in, and it will, be better to take the chips from the CPC and use them in the new interface... 


Hey! That would be nice indeed! We can call it the CPC++ 

[Bryce]

As I mentioned, the problem is finding where to connect the interface. The CPU, Gate Array and Disk connection are the only places to tap signals without having to solder:

The CPU: Offers almost all connects needed, but is missing: /BusReset, /ROMEN, ROMDIS, /RAMRD and RAMDIS.
The Gate Array: Offers /ROMEN and /RAMRD
The Disk interface: Offers /ROMEN and ROMDIS

So even if it was connected to the CPU socket, Gate Array socket and the Disk Drive connector, we are still missing /BusReset and RAMDIS which would have to be soldered directly onto the PCB somewhere. This is not the ideal situation and the interface would end up looking like an even bigger mess than the Vortex RAM Expansion: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/c/cd/Sp512top.jpg

This doesn't even take into account that the MegaFlash Read/Write switch, Reset button, all the jumpers (ROM 0 / ROM 7 etc) and a few LEDs would need to be wired to somewhere external too! If AMX Mouse functionality is added then we also need to tap the 9 signals from the Joystick Port! It would be spagetti!

Bryce.

[TFM]

So there are CPC folks richer than you?
I thought you were the richest guy here with your $4000 laptop

Hahaha! Guess 90% are richer    I saved all money for a couple of month to get that laptop, because I need it for work. And I still have it since 3 years - and probably for many more years 

BTW: If we add the shematics of the CPC-IDE (Symbiface 1) to that all singing and dance card, then it will support IDE too.
So we have IDE, 512Kb, Megaflash, Lower Rom Card all in one Board. And yes that could be external Device if its tiny and small ;-)

It would work with FOS, BDOS and SymbOS and Amsdos ... sounds good?

And with BDOS (even if I don't know much about it) there would be a DOS that allows to use the mass storage device under the native CPC-OS, so probably a lot of games would work. And loading stuff more quick is never bad.

I don't know if Dr. Zed would allow us to use the CPC-IDE core, but asking is free. I can do that in case Bryce considers that as an good idea. However the CPC-IDE is based on the IDE interface of Tilman Reh (the guy who made the RT280 computer based on a Z280 CPU). I know him since the early 90ies, he's a nice guy. However the original design was done for 8 bit I/O. So one main change in the CPC-IDE was to expand I/O to 16 bits, which is a prerequisite for usability with the CPC.
In addition the CPC-IDE core in the SF2 is debugged and streamlined. So it would be better to use the VHDL code of the SF2 IDE part.

Short note about the SF3: Yes it does exist and it does work. However Dr. Zed has some other hobbies too. It does not look like that the SF3 will get in production soon or at all.


Back to topic...

@Bryce: Even if you decide to add 4 MB, mouse, x-whatever-IDE or so... I do support you with the idea of keeping it external (abouve reasons).
Anything else we can handle in the thread "we recreate the CPC from scratch including all expansions" or so...

[Pentagon]

I don't know if Dr. Zed would allow us to use the CPC-IDE core, but asking is free. I can do that in case Bryce considers that as an good idea. However the CPC-IDE is based on the IDE interface of Tilman Reh (the guy who made the RT280 computer based on a Z280 CPU). I know him since the early 90ies, he's a nice guy. However the original design was done for 8 bit I/O. So one main change in the CPC-IDE was to expand I/O to 16 bits, which is a prerequisite for usability with the CPC.
In addition the CPC-IDE core in the SF2 is debugged and streamlined. So it would be better to use the VHDL code of the SF2 IDE part.

Yes you are totally right its based on Tilmann Reh IDE and this shematics is open source and you can find it at google. The sinclair controller is based on that design too.
Well the CPC-IDE Batch 1 was sponsored by TFM, Octoate and Tolkin and the open source Shematics was ported to VHDL by Dr.ZED and some timings added / changed.

My theory is if you three persons (TFM, Octo and Tolkin) sponsored that first batch of controller then you are holding the rights for the authorisation to rebuild too. You paid it and its yours.

If you TFM give me the authoriziation to flash some new XLINX from "your" CPC-IDE i can give them to bryce. I also did a bit changed Layout of that controller and i reverse engineered it totally. So i am able to build them and they work fine.

If i would give Bryce all documents of that stuff he could build it into the new "All Singing Dancing Card" (I love that name for the expansion).

The preferences to do that is, that you TFM and the other give me the "okay" for that. Then we can build something really better then a Symbiface and its compatible to all systems.

We dont need a RTC chip inside and i am sure we dont need a PS/2 mouse port. But if we can put your IDE Controller to Bryce megaflash / Lower Rom / Memory exp. then everybody is able to get the chance for a working Super Expansion including IDE.

Please think about that and give me a decision when you talked to your other three mates. And dont forget that stuff is open source and you paid for that first production. So it should not be a problem to give the data to bryce if i get your okay.

Thanks a lot TFM

Tom

[Pentagon]

BTW: That would be the most important expansion project in the history of CPC. No more Agressions between anybody, just friendship and a really good working project of all kind of devices joined at one exp. card.

It would be awesome, cause every OS Running with that. FOS, SymbOS, BDOS and Amsdos will work and every user can choose what he need to work for. Its really possible to do, if you can give me that authorization to do.

Cheers
Tom

[TFM]

You can have all "okays" and "authorisations" from my side. However I must confess I didn't directly sponsor the 1st batch, that was Octoate and Tolkin, I assume they have no problem with reproduction. I'll email them.

[ralferoo]

Well, if you ... use the others for a ROM disc (or what ever you want) it should be no problem.

Is there software for this ROM disc? It'd be very useful for my current project...

[TFM]

Is there software for this ROM disc? It'd be very useful for my current project...

Well, not now, but I did plan to create some. However the biggest question is how to implement commands like LOAD and SAVE. I could do it very quick if I would use RSX commands. But a nice implementation like they did it in RDOS takes a lot more time.

However, are we talking about current hardware, or future projects?

[Pentagon]

You can have all "okays" and "authorisations" from my side. However I must confess I didn't directly sponsor the 1st batch, that was Octoate and Tolkin, I assume they have no problem with reproduction. I'll email them.

Thanks a lot, that help much. Please give me reply if you know more of the others opinion and authorisation. I sent you a private email in german language too.


Cheers
Tom

[Bryce]

@Pentagon: "All-singing and dancing" is the English equivalent of the German word "Eierlegendewollmilchsau"

Bryce.

[ralferoo]

Well, not now, but I did plan to create some. However the biggest question is how to implement commands like LOAD and SAVE. I could do it very quick if I would use RSX commands. But a nice implementation like they did it in RDOS takes a lot more time.

However, are we talking about current hardware, or future projects?

Not to worry. I'm working on my FPGA project where I've got a 2MB flash ROM accessed serially. I reckon I can probably rework things so the SPI happens quickly enough that I can get it doing execute-in-place, at which point I could feasibly implement 128 ROMs... :O

The current version just accesses the flash chip via I/O ports and copies the ROM into RAM and I've got a 1/4-finished filesystem for dealing with other files. However, it sounded like there was an existing project to make a ROM disc, in which case it'd make sense to ditch my work-in-progress and use that. If there's nothing that already exists, I'll just continue work on my current system...