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Ritchardo · 20:38, 09 May 10

Hello,

I've had a wee idea that may or may not be a good one - it's hard for me to tell anymore!

The wiki is such a massive project (and one that is continuing to grow) that it can prove a little daunting to know where to begin and sometimes I've found myself wondering what to look up.

Is it possible to have a link that will navigate you to a random page each time that you click it - this may allow you to learn or read up on a subject that you would never normally look up and from there you could find yourself browsing further and further into the knowledge base to find out more (if its a subject that piques your interest). Alternatively, you may arrive at the page and realise that you know something else that's been missing from the entry and can fix it.

Is it a) possible and b) desireable?

Gryzor · 08:02, 10 May 10

Hello Ritchardo,

It's actually pretty amazing that we have grown to be such a massive project that's daunting to navigate! It never ceases to amaze me...

Actually your idea is pretty good, both desireable and possible: try visiting http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Special:Random

Now, if we find a decent place for it on the main page it'll be all set...

robcfg · 10:40, 10 May 10

I think to the right of the search field and the "Go" and "Search" buttons would be ideal.

Gryzor · 10:45, 10 May 10

Quote from: robcfg on 10:40, 10 May 10
I think to the right of the search field and the "Go" and "Search" buttons would be ideal.

...you kind of picked the most difficult place for it

Plus, you want such feature to be a bit in-your-face, not like the Search button which is essential, but not like that...

I did place the link, btw.

Devilmarkus · 11:05, 10 May 10

I also placed the "Random" link under "Search" into the sidebar

Gryzor · 11:07, 10 May 10

The sidebar is not what Robcfg said

Plus, it's titled wrong ("Search") and it populates the sidebar with a duplicate entry... :p

Devilmarkus · 11:12, 10 May 10

1) I did not title it

2) I find it boring to return first to index page and then open a random page

3) I want more girls in wiki!!!

robcfg · 11:57, 10 May 10

Well it is not bad in the sidebar.

Just going through some random pages, why do we have a page on "Günter Freiherr von Gravenreuth"?

nocash · 15:58, 10 May 10

Now, after the changes to the side bar, the "Search" function disappears at the bottom of the screen :-/ can't it be moved a bit higher, so one can access it without scrolling?
Another thing that would be nice at higher location would be the link to the forum.

Ritchardo · 20:55, 10 May 10

Perfecto!

Thanks guys!

Gryzor · 10:57, 11 May 10

@Robcfg: Who *is* Guenther? Again the umlaut problem strikes... we may never know!

@nocash: what search function disappears? the Search box is at the top! But, in any case, the Sidebar was already way too long, I really don't feel like shoving more stuff in there... Also, moving the forum up would break the organisation of the sidebar. In any case, I'm planning to make the forum more visible in the first place...

robcfg · 11:15, 11 May 10

Is there any problem with umlauts in posts? I can see it right, though the page in the wiki contains umlaut errors.

Gryzor · 11:17, 11 May 10

Really? Can you post the link???

nocash · 13:02, 11 May 10

> @nocash: what search function disappears?
Yes, the "search box", with "go" and "search" buttons. I am using the "monobook" style, see here for example: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook until yesterday it did have "search" close to top of window.

> moving the forum up would break the organisation of the sidebar.
Then the organisation is crap :-) most often used features should be top-most. Of course the most-often-used part may differ from user to user (and same for the saying-crap-part). If you want to have the Forum in the "Wiki-related" section, can't you move it a bit higher inside of that section? (Above "special pages" or so).

EDIT: PS. The umlaut pages show up in the search engine, http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=freiherr&go=Go but as far is I know one cannot access the actual pages.

Gryzor · 13:55, 11 May 10

-As with the forum, same with the wiki itself, we cannot cater for all the skins. You use third skins (outside the default, that is) at your own peril... Unfortunately some changes require hard-wired changes to the skin's code, hence it's not possible to make them in all skins.
-You answered this one yourself - most frequent features are different for different users. As for moving the wiki-related section higher, that was a conscious decision: I didn't want it to become introverted. A user comes in, he looks for data and knowledge. Wiki-related stuff is not as essential. As I said, I'll promote the forum by replacing the main photo of the main page with a forum-related one, but changing the entire structure goes a bit too far...
-Yeah, the umlaut behavior is something we're aware of... it seemed to me Robcfg was actually able to visit the page??

nocash · 14:56, 11 May 10

> some changes require hard-wired changes to the skin's code
Okay. Then I'll have to live with it :-( anyways, I'll stay with the monobook skin - looks less fancy (to me), and it gives more workspace (to everybody).

> As for moving the wiki-related section higher
No, I didn't say that! When talking about the wiki-related section, I meant rearranging the items INSIDE of that section, not moving the whole section.
My suggestions would be: Put the forum on top of the "wiki-related" section. Or, put it on bottom of the "contents" section. Does anybody else think that this could be useful?

> it seemed to me Robcfg was actually able to visit the page??
I'd guess not... Or did you see the whole page, robcfg?

robcfg · 15:11, 11 May 10

I think I got a bit lost, so let's check the facts.

- As for the forum posts, there is no problem using umlauts (I type Günther and hope you see it right

).
- The page on Günther Freiherr von... does not exists, but if you search for "freiherr" it appears under "Page Title Matches", in blue color.
- If you follow the link of the search page you go to http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/G%3F%3FÂ%3Fnter_Freiherr_von_Gravenreuth, where you can edit the page.

The thing is, why does it appear in the search results if it doesn't exist?

Devilmarkus · 15:17, 11 May 10

Well I deleted the page now.
So it still shows when you follow your link but I hope it will disappear in random sites now....

Gryzor · 16:20, 11 May 10

@Rob: there is another thread on this issue. When we moved servers something went a bit wrong with encoding and, even though the pages are still in the database and hence the system can list them in search results, you can't go there because special characters cannot be rendered... so it's kinda lost.

@nocash: I'm sick and tired of Monobook. You see it everywhere - on every single wiki system - and it's not even really a design. The one we use is a bit 'fancier', yes, but still very minimalistic. Plus, about size, there was another thread where people complained when it was larger, so we narrowed it a bit. Should I try making it more wide again?

nocash · 23:58, 11 May 10

> people complained when it was larger, so we narrowed it a
> bit. Should I try making it more wide again?
No need to, not for me. I'd prefer wider to support people with lowres monitors & to allow using two small windows next to each other. But if other people prefer narrow then that should be available, too. The design/colors aren't important to me, only the "wide" thing is nice to have - just as it is now monobook=wide, default=narrow.

I've had a look at the changelog, http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ASidebar&diff=45996&oldid=39631
The old version (that showed the Search function on top even with monobook), did have "*SEARCH" in there. That line somehow got lost alongside with the Random Page changes. At the moment "search" is undefined, and the different skins seem to default to place it where they like.

Can you insert the "*SEARCH" line again? Somewhere above or below the Contents section. Then it should work with all skins.

Gryzor · 18:38, 12 May 10

Ah yes, sorry, I took it off by mistake. Will fix.

By the way, I expanded the default theme to 100% again, you might want to check it out. I also made the font a little smaller, though I suspect people will complain

As far as width goes, I don't understand (again) why there should be any problem. The width is relative, not absolute, so it should warp and resize nicely in all resolutions. I checked it and it looks nice as low as 1024px, so there should be no issues...

nocash · 21:16, 13 May 10

> Ah yes, sorry, I took it off by mistake. Will fix.
Yes, please! Add the *SEARCH again!

> By the way, I expanded the default theme to 100% again
Sounds good, and looks good! I don't like internet pages that "force" people to buy bigger computers & monitors - internet should be as free as possible for everybody. Unfortunately it isn't, very few "free" pages support people with 640px or 800px monitors :-/ with 100% width it's better :-)

> As far as width goes, I don't understand (again)
> why there should be any problem.
> it should warp and resize nicely in all resolutions.
Yup, normal text wraps fine, and works even with 640px. Only problem could be that text lines could become endless long on wide screens (probably the reason why some people requested "narrow" style).

On the contrary, there are some things that don't wrap: Huge Images, Picture Galleries and program <code> without line-wrapping. Viewing such pages in 600..800px windows is a bit difficult (and the "narrow" feature did "steal" valueable 100..200 pixels).

> I also made the font a little smaller, though I suspect people will complain

Don't know if it's better or worse... maybe a little bit worse. The width problem applied more to the borders & images & galleries, the font size didn't matter too much. Alltogether... it might look better if you increase the font size again.

Gryzor · 08:15, 16 May 10

Search added again, albeit towards the bottom, since having two Search boxes at the top doesn't make much sense.

About long lines in huge resolutions - when, there's only that much you can do. I really don't know a way to change CSS and width on the fly depending on the visitor's resolution... and, of course, the elements that don't wrap - ok, really, I don't care. You can't be designing for the present AND for 1995 (I think that's when I had an 800px resolution, and I'm not even sure about it) at the same time...

nocash · 14:13, 17 May 10

> Search added again, albeit towards the bottom
Thanks. Uh, that didn't work yet.
The mixed-case "*Search" produces only an empty section.
The keyword must be upper-case "*SEARCH".
And please move it back to top - in uppercase it should work fine, without duplicating.

Gryzor · 08:14, 18 May 10

Ummmm... First, it worked when I tried it with Monobook. Anyway, I corrected it and it works, although for the default skin it just puts "Search" in there... will look into it.

I won't be moving it to the top, though. As I've said, extra skins are not supported, either here or in the wiki. If you insist on using another skin, then sorry but that's that...

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