I didnt see this mentioned anywhere so just a quick mention that the kickstarter for the US Gold book has started and is still running over at:
The History of U.S. Gold by Chris Wilkins — Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-history-of-us-gold)
Made by the same people who did the Ocean book. Donno if this belongs in the News forum like the Ocean book did, but ill post it here for starters.
some games were good, but also the unfair share of shitty speccy ports and crooky crooks from tiertex... >:(
This will be a good one, I had a feeling this would happen if the Ocean one was a success.
Definitely second banana to Ocean, and US Gold really did have some awesome games out there too.
I was most definitely excited in 1988 when they struck their deal with Capcom to do the exclusives. Sadly, a few turkeys came out of that, but Strider, Forgotten Worlds, Ghouls N Ghosts and believe it or not, I liked Tiger Road. The arcade of that was a bit odd anyway.
They also gave us Golden Axe which had me playing for quite some time.
Even the earlier stuff had me joystick wrangling into my early teens. Bruce Lee still gets played to death by this gamer, The first two Gauntlet games were done so well, even the tape version, the multiload wasn't such a pain.
It's far too easy to put them a few notches below Ocean, but Ocean had many turkeys too, and they admit that themselves.
Also, I remember their History In The Making compilation, there was a mini booklet in there the size of the manual with info on game sales, interviews with staff etc. I wonder if anything will be lifted from that?
Either way, I've backed this. I'm almost (finally!) finished reading the Ocean one. :)
Thanks for opening the thread, I forgot doing it even if I was among the first to back the project.
For me, it's not about whether USG had a stellar output on the CPC or not, it's an interesting story/book in itself. Thankfully it reached its goal within three days, now all we've got to do is wait for 2015 :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 17:00, 24 May 14
For me, it's not about whether USG had a stellar output on the CPC or not, it's an interesting story/book in itself. Thankfully it reached its goal within three days, now all we've got to do is wait for 2015 :D
Precisely! One of the impressions I got from the Ocean book from the programmers is how much of an utter nightmare the CPC seemed to be to code for, as opposed to the C64 and Speccy. So getting their take on their time with the company will always make for good reading. :)
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 15:58, 25 May 14
...One of the impressions I got from the Ocean book from the programmers is how much of an utter nightmare the CPC seemed to be to code for,
That's intriguing, what was nightmarish about coding for the CPC?
Quote from: steve on 17:48, 25 May 14
That's intriguing, what was nightmarish about coding for the CPC?
At a guess, writing Z80 code specifically suited to the ZX without any consideration or possibly much knowledge of what would or would not work well on the CPC, then trying to hack that ZX code to run on a CPC which went and had the temerity to not be exactly like a ZX, and then blaming the CPC for being so different you couldn't get away with a quick cash in without it showing in the quality of the final game. ;)
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 15:58, 25 May 14
Precisely! One of the impressions I got from the Ocean book from the programmers is how much of an utter nightmare the CPC seemed to be to code for, as opposed to the C64 and Speccy. So getting their take on their time with the company will always make for good reading. :)
More seriously, which interviews gave you that impression? I borrowed the book off my brother for a few days over Christmas and read the 'obvious' CPC related interviews plus some others my brother mentioned were interesting, and all I recall is the usual 'the CPC version was a bit rushed' style comments.
Quote from: Axelay on 09:19, 26 May 14
More seriously, which interviews gave you that impression? I borrowed the book off my brother for a few days over Christmas and read the 'obvious' CPC related interviews plus some others my brother mentioned were interesting, and all I recall is the usual 'the CPC version was a bit rushed' style comments.
I can't remember which ones off the top of my head. The CPC versions were always rushed because they couldn't meet the insane deadlines set by Ocean. Programmers were often "spoiled" by the likes of the C64 and speccy, and (ST and Amiga later) for being a lot easier to work with. Even the AA staff slated the CPC for that, especially their tech guys in AA100 when asked what CPC was an acronym for. "Crazy Piece of Crap" was the one that made me laugh the most. :D
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 12:15, 26 May 14
I can't remember which ones off the top of my head. The CPC versions were always rushed because they couldn't meet the insane deadlines set by Ocean. Programmers were often "spoiled" by the likes of the C64 and speccy, and (ST and Amiga later) for being a lot easier to work with. Even the AA staff slated the CPC for that, especially their tech guys in AA100 when asked what CPC was an acronym for. "Crazy Piece of Crap" was the one that made me laugh the most. :D
I've yet to see a compelling argument as to why the CPC is particularly 'hard' to develop for compared to other platforms. The few times I've seen anyone try to do so, it's always revolved around how much they had to change from a spectrum code base to make it work on the CPC. That amounts to no argument at all.
Is it only me, or there have been numerous interviews with programmers saying it was a joy to develop on the CPC?
I recall reports about the CPC being easy enough to code on. Probably by people who actually spent the time trying to get used to the actual specific hardware rather than sloppily port crap over to it.
Anyways yeah US Gold could be fantastic when they felt like it. UN Squadron is one of the finest 8-bit arcade conversions on any 8-bit AND clearly makes use of the CPC's superior graphics capabilities over the other 8-bits (maybe a lil sluggish but come on look at those gorgeous graphics and the amount of sprites on screen particularly when your default gun is upraded like crazy) AND had cool music even running on the 464 (ok it gets drowned out a bit by the shooting sound but even the concept of sound AND music at the same time was rare on the CPC's in general) AND has the 2 player co op mode even the SNES version lacked. So there! :)
Coding on the CPC is a little bit more complex than the Spectrum perhaps because of the double buffer.
On a ZX 48K for example you have the screen and most times people draw to a back buffer that they draw to the screen.
Sprites are drawn with software same as CPC. You can do that on CPC, but it may not be the best.
I think the only difficulty may be to get enough speed out of the CPC and making it less slugish.
When I read these game comparisons it's often "CPC is slower".
EDIT: Of course a lot of these comparisons are biased, it's obvious to read but it's nice sometimes when they admit the CPC version is better - doesn't happen often.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 16:47, 26 May 14
Coding on the CPC is a little bit more complex than the Spectrum perhaps because of the double buffer.
On a ZX 48K for example you have the screen and most times people draw to a back buffer that they draw to the screen.
Sprites are drawn with software same as CPC. You can do that on CPC, but it may not be the best.
I think the only difficulty may be to get enough speed out of the CPC and making it less slugish.
That's still talking in terms of someone doggedly sticking to an approach they know though, not being more complex. A developer using an approach suited to the spectrum and complaining it was difficult to get the speed up on the CPC while ignoring a more suitable option, for whatever reason, and then concluding the CPC was hard to work with.... that's just absurd.
One of the things that I feel with the CPC, is that I'm still not sure what it's truly capable of. Newly released games on the spectrum and C64 are very impressive, though the leap they take in quality when compared to that of the 80's, dont seem to be as big compared to when it happens on a CPC. When you look at something like BB4CPC or SubHunter, the leaps in quality are HUGE compared to what was developed in the 80's. I know that we have better ways of compressing data, but it just seems like there's so much about the machine that we dont know. I think that had we had more dedicated CPC programmers creating the games from scratch during the 80's, we could of gathered a lot more info on the machines capabilities.
It's wondrous and frustrating at the same time.
Orion Prime and the new R-Type are also quite remarkable examples of the power of the CPC.
Also, to be fair, we have very powerful tools now and all the time in the world.
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:56, 26 May 14
Is it only me, or there have been numerous interviews with programmers saying it was a joy to develop on the CPC?
Indeed, i at least recall the darling twins mention that they used a amstrad to write their early amstrad and spectrum games on. Having a working keyboard & the fast 3" drive helped making quick changes to source/code. they had someone make em a transfter cable so they could copy over data from the amstrad to the spectrum. That and that there being 2 of them ment they could produce games faster then most of their competitors.
EDIT: the OLIVER twins not the darlings, woops.
Quote from: Cholo on 21:46, 22 May 14
I didnt see this mentioned anywhere so just a quick mention that the kickstarter for the US Gold book has started and is still running over at:
The History of U.S. Gold by Chris Wilkins — Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-history-of-us-gold)
Well, I didn't back the project because I don't have a credit card, but I paid £25.00 for a pre-order of the book through the Revival Retro Events (http://www.revivalretroevents.com/) web site.
Imagine my surprise when a few days ago I received a copy of Chris' Ocean book through the post! ??? The thing is that I already have a copy of the Ocean book which I paid for towards the end of last year, and received just before Christmas! I've e-mailed Chris twice to see what he wants me to do with the extra copy but I've had no response at all.
I'm just wondering if this has happened to anyone else? I'm concerned that my pre-order of the US Gold book may no longer be valid now and I may have to cough up another £25.00 for it when it is eventually published.
I think Chris will fix you, if he hasn't replied it's probably because he's busy with his new project and maybe he hasn't even seen your email... But I don't think you've got anything to worry about!
Quote from: Gryzor on 07:16, 01 July 14
I think Chris will fix you, if he hasn't replied it's probably because he's busy with his new project and maybe he hasn't even seen your email... But I don't think you've got anything to worry about!
You're right. An hour or so after I posted, Chris replied and told me to post it back and mark it "return to sender", which I have done - so everything's all right now.
And after reading the comments section of Chris' latest Kickstarter project (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-story-of-the-zx-spectrum-in-pixels/comments), I would also like to see an Amstrad CPC games book! ;)
Quote from: Nich on 13:16, 01 July 14
And after reading the comments section of Chris' latest Kickstarter project (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-story-of-the-zx-spectrum-in-pixels/comments), I would also like to see an Amstrad CPC games book! ;)
Do let him know!!! The more the pressure, the better!
+1 on that! I think both of these titles are now on my want list
Perhaps this is off topic and might seem a bit mean but.... as cool as people writing books about 80's computers and making a living from it is. A little bit of me thinks I'd far rather see people paid to create new games rather than just reliving old memories
But from an author/publisher's point of view, more people will read a book than play a game.
Quote from: Trebmint on 20:59, 01 July 14
Perhaps this is off topic and might seem a bit mean but.... as cool as people writing books about 80's computers and making a living from it is. A little bit of me thinks I'd far rather see people paid to create new games rather than just reliving old memories
Some folks get inspired to make new games because of reliving memories of old ones. I do anyways.
well the books feature unseen stuff and interesting interviews with people that made the scene.
I also would support the idea of new games (they still happen - right!)
Quote from: Lazy Dude on 21:24, 01 July 14
well the books feature unseen stuff and interesting interviews with people that made the scene.
I also would support the idea of new games (they still happen - right!)
I just think this guy can write a book without me paying for it upfront. It seems like his Spectrum retrospective book is pretty much the same as a number of other books that have appeared over the past few years... and no different from the stories we already know from the forums and Retro Gamer. Matthew Smith... Manic Miner... Ultimate Play the Game... John Ritman... Lords of Midnight... Ant Attack... over and over.
And yes people do create new games now, but how much better could they be if the makers could commit 100% rather than stealing hours between real life.
I just suspect if a coder and artist went on kickstarter and asked for 15 thousand to code a brilliant new spectrum game they'd get very little pledged and a lot of negative comment and I think this is a real shame
yep well reality of it (believe it or not!) is that these retro units are waaaay past their commercial viability so all we get is what some talented coders like to throw out for fun
Quote from: Lazy Dude on 22:08, 01 July 14
yep well reality of it (believe it or not!) is that these retro units are waaaay past their commercial viability so all we get is what some talented coders like to throw out for fun
I realize this, but I cant but help think its mad that we'd happily pay a guy to write a book, and yet never fund the development of a great new game.
well.... if there's anyone out there listening it does sound a bit like a challenge has just been issued!
Haha no there was no challenge intended. But if there was 15 thousand pounds offered for a games team to make something amazing I dont think you'd have a lack of offers :)
A few points here:
-you can always buy the book normally after it's been published. You don't need to back it up front. Though, as it's a quite niche thing, and is self-published, I think it's very justified for the guy to begin a crowdfunding campaign. It's not like Taschen asked you to back a coffee table book (wow, imagine if they did a retro computing book...).
-he's got very real costs apart from his own time. And these costs are much higher than a CPC/whatever game
-true, it'd be nice if there was a KS campaign for a retro game on original platforms. But, there *are* games released all the time. It's just that the devs either release them for free or have much lower costs they feel comfortable with undertaking until they recoup them from selling physical boxes.
So, two different things. I don't get why talk about one with relevance to the other...
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:38, 02 July 14
A few points here:
-you can always buy the book normally after it's been published. You don't need to back it up front. Though, as it's a quite niche thing, and is self-published, I think it's very justified for the guy to begin a crowdfunding campaign. It's not like Taschen asked you to back a coffee table book (wow, imagine if they did a retro computing book...).
-he's got very real costs apart from his own time. And these costs are much higher than a CPC/whatever game
-true, it'd be nice if there was a KS campaign for a retro game on original platforms. But, there *are* games released all the time. It's just that the devs either release them for free or have much lower costs they feel comfortable with undertaking until they recoup them from selling physical boxes.
So, two different things. I don't get why talk about one with relevance to the other...
I wasn't knocking the guy, I was just asking why we as a retro community feel its fine to recompense somebody for writing a book up front (before a finger is even pressed on keyboard), however if a team wanted to write a commercial quality game everyone considers it should be done for free.
The other point is that to get funding of this sort you have to write such a generic subject that we just get the same book. Bob Pape wrote a great book on the creation of ZX spectrum R-Type for free. I'd much rather re-read that than read another attempt to explain Manic Miner or Imagine software etc
And yes there are games released all the time - but how many of them though are of the quality we saw 25 years ago??? I'd argue none of them, and considering that we've got 25 years more knowledge, vastly better tools the games now should be amazing. The reason they are not isn't because the coders aren't capable, just that they're doing it a few hours a week in between real life. I just think if you funded a small group for 4-6 months we would see something very special.
And yes I realize I took this off topic, but I'm just sad that the limited retro dollar isn't used to create new stories rather than relive the old ones over and over
Quote from: Trebmint on 10:01, 02 July 14
I wasn't knocking the guy, I was just asking why we as a retro community feel its fine to recompense somebody for writing a book up front (before a finger is even pressed on keyboard), however if a team wanted to write a commercial quality game everyone considers it should be done for free.
As I said you can always get the book later. Of course the author still has made his money through the crowdfunding campaign, but as I said (bis) the issue is that he's got very real costs to deal with.
Quote from: Trebmint on 10:01, 02 July 14
The other point is that to get funding of this sort you have to write such a generic subject that we just get the same book. Bob Pape wrote a great book on the creation of ZX spectrum R-Type for free. I'd much rather re-read that than read another attempt to explain Manic Miner or Imagine software etc
Pope wrote a (really lovely, I enjoyed it immensely) small, personal book - he just sat down and wrote it in his spare time. No interviews, no travel, and above all, no physical book!!! In that vein, the AA tribute issue was given away for free...
[/size]Quote from: Trebmint on 10:01, 02 July 14
And yes there are games released all the time - but how many of them though are of the quality we saw 25 years ago???
Quite a few, actually :D
[/size]Quote from: Trebmint on 10:01, 02 July 14And yes I realize I took this off topic, but I'm just sad that the limited retro dollar isn't used to create new stories rather than relive the old ones over and over
The "retro dollar" is not so limited; it's mostly that we have entered another phase - where history is written rather than created. Makes total sense to me, even if (as i said) I'd back a retro game in the blink of an eye.
Are you assuming this guy is going round the UK doing interviews, buying lunches, train fares and fees to interviewees? I very much doubt it, and I'm sure most of the work is via email, phone or skype (basically free!). Other than the printing the only real cost is his time. That's no different to say TFM creating 100 boxed copies of Cyber Chickens, the difference is that TFM didnt say "Pay Now" or I wont bother writing it. The other difference is Cyber Chickens is unique, and TBH this book doesnt sound like it is. Haven't we already funded a kickstarter for Bedrooms to Billions which as an actual film is a worthwhile addition, seemingly covers the same subject and interviews the same people.
I also dont agree with the argument that programmers are able to produce the same sort of quality working on a project a few hours a week like a small funded team working fulltime for 3-6 months would. And also why should they? I'm very much of the opinion that if you have a skill you should be renumerated for it. I have no doubt there have been good / perhaps even great games over the past 20 years... but they are few and far between, many are limited in scope, polish.
My original point was we're now in a different time and age where crowd funding is possible... so I'm just asking why we are funding what we're funding? Are there not IP's from the 80's that would excite many of us C64,Speccy,CPC,BBC users that might be very gettable? Has anyone ever asked Andrew Hewson if they could develop Znaps or Nebulus 2.... or a hundred other titles from now long dead companies. Are there not some amazing coders from back in the 80's that might be paid to write again... Not all of them went on to be successful business men.
"Other than printing"?
and, printing and shipping hundreds and hundreds of books is the same as 100 boxed copies of a game?
Aw, come on.
Whether you find the book interesting or not is, of course, another issue and there can be no discussion on it.
And I never said that "programmers are able to produce the same sort of quality working on a project a few hours a week like a small funded team working fulltime for 3-6 months would", why do you say that? I just said that retro devs tend to just give away or sell for a very small profit the fruit of their toils, for which we're eternally grateful. Sure, I'd like Hewson to produce something new, and maybe it'd be doable so who knows, maybe approach them and suggest it to them?
Quote from: Gryzor on 13:23, 02 July 14
"Other than printing"?
and, printing and shipping hundreds and hundreds of books is the same as 100 boxed copies of a game?
Aw, come on.
Whether you find the book interesting or not is, of course, another issue and there can be no discussion on it.
And I never said that "programmers are able to produce the same sort of quality working on a project a few hours a week like a small funded team working fulltime for 3-6 months would", why do you say that? I just said that retro devs tend to just give away or sell for a very small profit the fruit of their toils, for which we're eternally grateful. Sure, I'd like Hewson to produce something new, and maybe it'd be doable so who knows, maybe approach them and suggest it to them?
Yes. I doubt getting boxes/disc/manual/poster & postage is that much cheaper than printing and posting a book. There are services that print and send books as and when they are ordered... in fact if amazon screw the publishing industry up the way they want there will be no pre-printed books... but they will be printed as ordered.
If the cost is so much that he cant afford to print all the books... then either do that, don't bother, or make it as a pdf or another format so I can actually have it on my kindle at a fraction of the cost... Far be it for me to say but why chop down any trees for this?
I might also argue that people producing software in their part-time and giving it away for free is a bad thing. There's little doubt that free covertapes on magazines killed the commercial software industry off on CPC, Speccy, C64 and even Amiga and ST a few years prematurely. If AA wasn't giving people a software fix every month its not impossible that games would still be being written into '95 / '96
Well, take it from someone who has ordered printed materials in quantities ranging from a few dozen to hundreds of thousands as part of my job, a boxed game cannot be compared to a several hundred pages long, nicely bound book with premium paper and excellent printing quantity. Yeah, no way. Yes there are places that print on demand, and I have a few of them too, and a.they're not cheap by any means, b.quality is definitely up to what this guy is doing. So if he did a print-on-demand kind of thing the final cost for the buyer would be substantially higher.
Just for the heck of it I took a peak and found a quote €50-55 from a supplier of mine for a similar project and for a quantity of 700, and that's before shipping from the States or China AND taxes. So... yeah.
As for the PDF, you're free to pledge for that, of course, and it's significantly cheaper. But *obsviously* there are lots of people (myself included) who couldn't care less about an electronic edition.
...so, you're analysing the market back in the '80s and '90s to draw conclusions for the current state of things? Even if "there's little doubt" (I highly doubt it btw) that free software killed the commercial industry, you do realise you're pretending there's actually an industry to speak of in the retro scene?
Quote from: Trebmint on 14:21, 02 July 14
I might also argue that people producing software in their part-time and giving it away for free is a bad thing. There's little doubt that free covertapes on magazines killed the commercial software industry off on CPC, Speccy, C64 and even Amiga and ST a few years prematurely. If AA wasn't giving people a software fix every month its not impossible that games would still be being written into '95 / '96
I don't agree with that mainly cos it was often the demos on the covertapes/disks that had me going out and buying the full games (or pestering my folks to get me them for birthday and christmas). I still bought plenty of games (mostly budget ones cos pocket money wasn't very high) despite getting free full games on the tapes too.
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:55, 02 July 14
As for the PDF, you're free to pledge for that, of course, and it's significantly cheaper. But *obsviously* there are lots of people (myself included) who couldn't care less about an electronic edition.
Me am opposite. I prefer the stuff that doesn't take up any physical space and I can easily redownload if lost or stolen or burned/melted. :)
Quote from: Carnivac on 15:22, 02 July 14
I don't agree with that mainly cos it was often the demos on the covertapes/disks that had me going out and buying the full games (or pestering my folks to get me them for birthday and christmas). I still bought plenty of games (mostly budget ones cos pocket money wasn't very high) despite getting free full games on the tapes too.
Naturally. It's not by coincidence that almost all consumer industries give out sample or free goods to the purchasing public...
Quote
Me am opposite. I prefer the stuff that doesn't take up any physical space and I can easily redownload if lost or stolen or burned/melted. :)
Sure, and I respect that. As someone who was raised in a house of bookworms and becoming one myself at a very tender age nothing can compete with paper, but I see the opposite side too. And good think that Chris is offering the digital version, too - so why gripe?
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:25, 02 July 14
Sure, and I respect that. As someone who was raised in a house of bookworms and becoming one myself at a very tender age nothing can compete with paper, but I see the opposite side too. And good think that Chris is offering the digital version, too - so why gripe?
I like reading paper books but I don't like owning them. Maybe it's cos I lived on the streets for a short while and also moved about a bit from home to home that I like to try keep possessions to a minimum where possible. I am pretty impressed whenever I'm in someone's home and they have a room that's just full of books like a personal library though. I filled up some of my book case with books but they still make me feel a bit... unsettled... like I'll probably have to move again so I should give them away.
I love room-libraries, but I don't have *that* many. True, I've got shelves running around the ceiling edges in my livng room, probably a total of 40-45 shelf meters that are quickly running out of space (plus many, many tomes at my parents' house and my in-laws), and my Amazon account counts into the thousands and thousands of euros, but I don't see myself smoking a pipe in a high chair with a cat on my lap and the fire crackling next to me :D
That said, my books are collectively probably my most prized property, and if something happened and I lost them I'd get depressed.
I actually had a discussion (with a corporate recruiter, for some reason, while on a formal interview :D ) a while ago on the very issue of being disconnected from physical property and I think I can feel it being quite liberating, but I don't think I'm capable of that...
I fear you think I'm knocking this guys book, cos I'm not. I just want to know what people see as the reason why pre-funding a book is any more worthwhile than pre-funding a game? Cos for me its not. In fact people even get funding for 8bit like games.... they're running on 3ghz PC's with chunky graphics playing on the fact they look like a SNES game... and this gets funding???
And yet we all know that if you went on kickstarter and asked for money to write a CPC/Speccy game you'd get about £50 pledged.
Yes I know printing is expensive... but on the same basis that you can say people write free games and release them... so is it possible to write a free book and release it. He doesn't have to make it so that its an expensively printed book any more than I could a game but only if I raised enough to release it on solid gold 3" disks
Might not sound like it but I'm glad that is possible to get a book made through crowd funding... cheapness is a creeping disease where everyone starts not to see the value and costs in products . I just think its sad people will support retro one way but not in another.
On the other point of covertapes killing the industry... they didnt kill it they ended it earlier than would have happened naturally. I know this for certain, however you can also argue the fact Amstrad Action would have died around the same time as Amtix if it wasnt for the covertape. And without a newstand magazine no software would sell anyways. As somebody that ran a software company around this time I had this very discussion with Dave Goulder. He admitted that a lot of firms told them that they sold far less because people were getting their game fix from the covertape, and consequently less games were getting commissioned to the point where only major titles would sell. That also meant a decrease in circulation as less games = less interest = less readers, and less advertising revenue. This was balanced out by the increase sales they got from having a tape, and that they could charge more for it than the tape and it contents cost.
"Why pre-funding a book is any more worthwhile than pre-funding a game": it's not, per se. But a game on an original platform would be much, much more niche, and that's about it. That's what kills it. And developing on a PC is much easier, so devs prefer that.
And yes it's possible to write a free book and release it. It's also possible for someone to buy me a new car. If they do, fine. If they don't, it's ok, I'm not expecting them too.
As for cover tapes:first of all I wouldn't take a publisher's word as the absolute truth - they've been known to have a distorted view of the market and its needs. Plus, as you say, any diminishing sales due to lack of interest in buying on one hand were offset by an increased user base that existed because of the magazines... so I don't think it's safe to deduct anything!
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:25, 02 July 14
Naturally. It's not by coincidence that almost all consumer industries give out sample or free goods to the purchasing public...
Sure, and I respect that. As someone who was raised in a house of bookworms and becoming one myself at a very tender age nothing can compete with paper, but I see the opposite side too. And good think that Chris is offering the digital version, too - so why gripe?
I'm not actually griping. I'm just asking why we consider a book of more worth than games. Good luck to the guy, I'm glad hes making a living from retro... I just think its a shame really talented coders and artist cant also
And yes industry gives out freebies, and it might be argued that a title on a covertape sold more... but if you had 6 games out in one month and one had a demo on the tape, that would sell the others wouldn't, which just leads to less games. Look at the last few years of AA... very few demos were given away, i was mostly full games that could no longer be purchased. Just software companies making another £400-800 from a dead title.
Quote from: Trebmint on 16:12, 02 July 14
I'm not actually griping. I'm just asking why we consider a book of more worth than games. Good luck to the guy, I'm glad hes making a living from retro... I just think its a shame really talented coders and artist cant also
And yes industry gives out freebies, and it might be argued that a title on a covertape sold more... but if you had 6 games out in one month and one had a demo on the tape, that would sell the others wouldn't, which just leads to less games. Look at the last few years of AA... very few demos were given away, i was mostly full games that could no longer be purchased. Just software companies making another £400-800 from a dead title.
By then the relevant industry was dead already. The people buying the mags and the attached software were mostly those who hadn't yet moved on for various reasons. And again, I don't think that without the mags the industry would have fared any better.
As for the first question, I guess the answer is: quantity. Endless games around, very few books.
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:17, 02 July 14
By then the relevant industry was dead already. The people buying the mags and the attached software were mostly those who hadn't yet moved on for various reasons. And again, I don't think that without the mags the industry would have fared any better.
As for the first question, I guess the answer is: quantity. Endless games around, very few books.
Oh the commerical software would have died the same day as the magazines, it just happened the magazines lived on a little longer than the commercial software, and in the case of Amstrad Action probably two years or so.
Yes I agree that there's less books, so that is a probable answer. The spectrum/cpc/64 are just nostalgia now and its a shame that people would rather read about it than actually still live it
Hm. So Amstrad Action ended in 1995 which was also the time the 32-bit consoles such as the PlayStation and Saturn had been released and 3D graphics were starting to take on much more prominence than before. The 8-bits hadn't been marketable for a few years by that point (their games not really worth much in value other than putting on the front of a magazine to squeeze out some extra money) and yet AA survived through to the end of the 16-bit era while continuing to focus on an 8-bit that wasn't even considered either of the top two most popular 8-bit computer systems. I always found that pretty impressive.
By the way I've had some good feedback on my two CPC-like games even from people who either weren't alive back then or simply had just never heard of the CPC. I thought it would just be CPC-nostalgic folks that would find something to like in these projects but nope, apparently there are people completely new to the low colours and chunky resolutions that find it appealing. That's good to know. :)
Very true, nice point. Last issue was June '95; that very month I retired my 1040STFM and got me a super 486DX100 with 16GBMB of RAM. Heck, I had a 4x CD-ROM and a 5140 Cirrus Logic SVGA!
It was amazing that AA outlived all the speccy and C64 magazines. That last year or so of AA was kind of sad... it was like watching an elderly relative waste away. It really was almost a flyer by the end and not a magazine. Nostalgia huh
Oh, how true...