In honour of Steve Jobs - first Apple experience/hardware? Was it great?

[khisanth]

No idea if anyone here is saddened or oblivious to the passing of Steve Jobs, but I certainly was pretty upset and has affected me more than i thought it would for someone I have never met or personally know.

So for any of you who have or had owned Apple hardware or software, what was your first?

I always admired Apple products from the, from the Macintosh onwards as didnt really know about the Apple 2 at the time. However they were never affordable for me or my parents so never had any Apple kit back in the day.

First entered the world of Apple with a 20Gb 4th generation iPod. Coming from a 32Mb mp3 player, this was a quantum leap in size and quality!!! From that moment I GOT Apple. I knew what people were raving about or turning into fanboys over. I was so impressed with the look, design and usability of the thing. It also made me feel part of something, something GOOD !

[TFM]

We should not forget all the people who died in asian Apple-computer-producing plants, people there work 16 hours every day, seven days a week and if they get sick, they loose their job and die on the street. Anybody thinking about them? (The guys / gals who produces your iPad) ??

[khisanth]

Yes thats very true and no not forgotten about them.

However thats not what I am asking about

[Executioner]

I was never very impressed with much that Apple did. The Mac was monochrome at the time when all other much cheaper PCs (and CPC's) had colour. They've always been over-priced, proprietary and different.. So different that I could never be bothered learning all about them. I recently purchased a book in an attempt to develop for iPhone, and gave up almost immediately after I found that I needed either a virtual Mac or a real one just to develop for it (why would anyone deliberately not release a PC version of their development environment and exclude almost 80% of developers). I think I'll stick to Java (and maybe Android).

iPhone and iPad are very popular at the moment, but I can't personally understand why people are willing to pay twice as much for one as an Android tablet with the same functionality, same old story with Apple... overpriced fashion accessories.

btw, the on-topic section above was where I mentioned seeing a Mac for the first time.

[TotO]

Question: "What's about your first Apple experience?"
Answer: "Apple is twice the price... (and I never used a Mac)"

Question: "What's about Steve Job death?"
Answer: "Apple is twice the price... (and I never used an iPad)"

Question: "What's about my aunt if she got balls?"
Answer: "Apple is twice the price... (and I never used a ...)"

I'm bored by peoples who are speaking about things they don't want to know or understand, but always judge it.


My first experience with a Mac was on a Machintosh in 1985. (not mine)
It look so different that other computers... It's screen display black & white graphics instead of green texts.
And, instead of my uncle computer (not my aunt with balls...), it don't tire my eyes hours after hours.
My uncle computer does many noise too... This one was quiet. The floppy discs are littles and you eject them by draging an icon, not by pushing an button. It was magic.
For doing that, you are using a mouse. Disconcerting the first time, but nice for drawing with MacPaint, a software that came with it. (I remember a text writer too, with beautiful letters and not poor caracters)

EDIT:
My first computer should be a CPC464, but after this experience I prefered to wait 6 mouths more for a 6128 with floppies "like the Mac" and no green monitor... No regret! (perhaps, a mouse instead of a lightpen)

[Bryce]

I'm not going to mention the price, which ones I've used, or even my testicled aunt. But I would like to say that people have been attributing many things to Apple and/or Steve that just aren't true. The mouse was invented by Douglas Engelbart in 1970 while he was at SRI, long before Apple existed. The first hypertext (clickable) UI was also invented by Engelbart at SRI and later became a GUI when Xerox developed the Xerox Alto, also before Steve ever had a soldering iron in his hand. The first All-in-one computer was the Commodore PET (1977).
       I hate to ruin the hype with facts, but as mentioned earlier, other than inventing "Premium priced shiny things" nothing from Apple was either new nor innovative, it was just well marketed. His greatest achievement in life was convincing uninteresting people, that they could pull more birds if they owned one of his shiny products...An absolute master-peice of marketing.

Bryce.

The B&O comparison is actually perfect, they did exactly the same thing, until people worked out that their products were shiny but shite.

Edit: just to complete the question: Yes, I've owned and still own many Apple products, some good, some terrible.

[Gryzor]

TotO, I'm not sure why I'd need to own Apple products to have an opinion on them; after all, it is because I've decided they're not worth it that I don't own any. And, of course, yes I've used several of them.

Also, if you count click-disk-ejection as innovation, well, we have different definitions for it Neat and geeky, sure. Innovative? Pffft. My VCR did this (eject the medium electronically instead of mechanically interfacing with the user).

As I said in the other thread, please do give examples of real innovation. I'm speaking sincerely here, and I bet there must be, but nothing really comes to mind.

The question is, what happens to Apple now? Was Jobs such a driving force that he made all the difference? If yes, then that's a huge problem for Apple and I guess they may be in for a second crisis in their history - without being able to rehire the man.
@Bryce: first time I saw Engelbart's presentation (that was him in that B&W film, wasn't it?) demoing hypertext my jaw hit the floor and forgot to get back up. THAT was an amazing innovation.

[redbox]

I always thought Steve Jobs looked like my dad, especially when wearing the turtle neck jumper and dodgy jeans combo. Not the kind of person I'd buy products to "make me seem cool" from.


Only Apple device I ever bought was a (5th gen?) iPod and that was simply because it was the best MP3 player available at the time, and it did video which I liked.


Good things: it looked shiny and nice, AAC compression was good and it played videos.
Bad things: the hard disc inside is noisy and it skipped quite a bit, iTunes on the PC is a big overbearing pile-of-crap bloatware[nb]Seriously, if you want to convince the world Apple is king, write good software - "it's runs better on a Mac" really doesn't cut it[/nb]


So, yes, I enjoy my iPod.  But, no, it didn't convince me at all to buy anything else from Apple.

[Gryzor]

Redbox, once upon a time I was managing Personal Audio for Sony in Greece. Our products were really good - fantastic build quality, best battery on earth, best audio output and... Sonicstage (god...). People hated Sonicstage so much that I once asked Sony's president, face to face, when we were dropping this piece of shite (not quite like that, of course) and going for simple drag-n-drop, in front of my white-faced director. And they (the customers) were right too - *I* hated it myself. But when it came to Apple - iTunes? Why, it's cute!

I'm now reading Steve Job's Technological Legacy on Rolling Stone. Let's see:

-Apple I: wow, another computer.
-Logo: wow, a logo. Marketing genius.
-Apple II: wow, it's got a screen and a keyboard.
-Macintosh: what an expensive mini aquarium! No - wait, this is a screen! Ridley Scott commercial: the birth of cool. Marketing genius.
-Next: neeeeext! (btw, I did like Next very much indeed, and I have had the luck of using a workstation. As much innovative as Neo-Geo, ultimately)
-Pixar: we're getting off-topic here, but again, they did a great job though not innovative. And, of course, Pixar was Lucas'.
-Jobs returns. Innovation!
-iMac. Someone did some digging around in old files of industrial design... Design-wise, I disliked it even then. To appreciate good design you must wait for a number of years. "Retro" is always "in", but I seriously can't see anyone designing a new product around those lines again...
-iPod: (this is a crappy article) mmmmmyeah. A thingy that plays mp3s off a small HDD? Whoever thought of that?
-iTunes: more ways to bring money in! Nap-who?
-iPod shuffle: that's where it starts to get downright silly. The latest Nanos are great, btw, though soooo expensive.
-iPhone: another first from Apple.
-iPad: ditto.
-The Beatles join iTunes! A revolution in technology! Another instance where rectifying an omission is touted as the best thing since sliced bread.
-iCloud: oh, oh, I know, another idea by Apple!

I don't think the Rolling Stone has much clout in tech issues, but it's a nice enough list that sums things up nicely...

[khisanth]

I think you need to use a product or similar ones by the same vendor to be able to give a good knowledgable critique. I bought my Macbook Pro after having been sold on Apple by my iPhone and iPod.

I love my Windows 7 PC, but I know it will crash or freeze or slow down at some point for some reason, no matter how much memory, CPU and graphics card power I throw at it. My Macbook Pro has not done in 2 years.

Using it for a while you quickly understand why people can get very involved with Apple and very passionate.

If you have not used a product you can have an opinion, but it will not be a very good one.

[Gryzor]

This is true, but of course I have used Macs on multiple occasions and extensively. I never said that MacOS is a bad OS, quite the contrary.

As for hang-ups etc, this is the upside of a closed platform of course.

Yet my Win7 x64 installation, now 11 months old, has only given me one BSOD and is not showing ANY slowdown on my rather uninspiring Athlon II X4 635 rig.

[khisanth]

Hehe so for Gryzor to be happy or impressed you must invent the product or be the FIRST. Being the best or evolving something into the best is not impressive.

Nothing since is good enough!

[Gryzor]

You're completely distorting what I'm saying. I didn't say Apple doesn't have good products; I'm merely questioning their fame for innovation. Two totally different things.

[khisanth]

Only teasing 


They innovate in the implementation of technology, in the way we use technology no?

[Gryzor]

Why, yes, like a rubber cover for your antenna

Yes, they're good at that. That's why they have good products (occasionally ): they aggregate good existing technology with good ideas by others and fuse them into their own product line. But, again, that's a good company, not an innovative one. And, sometimes their 'innovation' is just a step (or several) backwards in order to differentiate from the competition. One-button mouse, anyone? Chaotic phone launcher?

[TotO]

I'm wrong, or you don't like Apple like a child don't like the food his never taste?
The initial topic subject was interesting... Never mind...

[Gryzor]

I think I was clear about:
a.having actually used Macs and other Apple products
b.why I don't like Apple/Jobs, although I do like some of the products.

Not that hard to see, though yes, we're OT.

[TFM]

I only had a single experience with a Mac, a friend asked me if I can help him with the character set of the Mac, he wanted me to help him redefining characters. Well, they were 8 x 8 pixel, so I helped him and stayed with the CPC ;-)

[mahlemiut]

My first experience with Macs was a Mac Classic, with black and white (and literally no other colours, not even gray) monitors that were absurdly tiny.  A single mouse button was annoying to use, also.  Have used more powerful Macs since (including much nicer grayscale/colour monitors), but never really got a sense that it was any more or less capable or special than other PCs.

Current Apple products look very nice, but that's not exactly the most important thing for me.

[khisanth]

I use a magic mouse at work and thats one button or really its no buttons!

[TFM]

Well, my prescious AMX mouse has three buttons and they all have useful functions :-) But I miss this scrolling-wheel thing once a while ;-)

[MacDeath]

The Apple IIgs seems pretty decent.

MAC mark1 was actually not a lot more than a very expensive Atari ST where you couldn't even change the screen to get some sweet colours... or like a 16bit PCW minus the printer and the cheap...

Ok, MAC predates those...

But this MAC revolution was mostly for the spoiled rich brats...
Amstrad on the other hand was the same kind of concept : a complete computer : Driver, Monitor, Keyboard... but for cheap ! THIS is what bring computer in homes... and what get you to know how to use a keyboard and a few command lines...

MAC didn't teach you what a computer was about, you just have to use the mouse.


For the rest, only Hypsters' Hype, mostly.

needless to say, one-button mouse is obviously a regression.
Hell even Amstrad CPC managed to have 3 buttons mouse...



I always was a PC guy.
CPC then 286 EGA PC... then VGA, then 486, then...

I don't see what Macintosh has that is soooo great, I mean i'm not even a pro-grammer...

[TFM]

Hell even Amstrad CPC managed to have 3 buttons mouse...

That's what I mentioned in the previous mail ;-)

[TotO]

I only had a single experience with a Mac, a friend asked me if I can help him with the character set of the Mac, he wanted me to help him redefining characters. Well, they were 8 x 8 pixel, so I helped him and stayed with the CPC ;-)

Sure, it's black&white... But with 512x342 square pixels ratio. Nice for doing text job and printing.
Machintosh was made to be used for productive work by people who are not computer scientists.

Hell even Amstrad CPC managed to have 3 buttons mouse...

What's better in 80s? 3 butons mouse for doing nothing or 1 button mouse for using with many programs designed for?


Sorry, but your arguments are from a geek view looking in the past.
It's funy a time, but I realy prefert when you speak about things you know: CPC

[Gryzor]

Have you seen the Atari ST running in High-res? Paper-white, really stable image, and a nice 640x400.

As for the mouse... I guess Apple dropped the one-button mouse around 1989?

I'm sorry, man, but you really sound like an Apple fanboy...